I voted Not Sure,
Based on the loose rope strands, which shows the part of negligence on the part of the California Commission, in conjunction with the force and velocity of how much the tangled feet threw off Kermit's equilibrium, the result for me remains inconclusive.
However, I believe that when Kermit was on the ground he most likely choose to stay there by not showing resistance to what was happening or even trying to get up. (His biggest mistakes, IF he really wanted to continue, he should have tried to protest that that time, not wait until he learned he had lost to show upset about the fight being stopped.)
If only Kermit had been pushed, punched, or fallen from the ring from something more plausible, no one would be making an issue of this, and would have just attributed the outcome of this fight to "shit luck."
Jack
Looked to me, he was spun and ran headfirst toward the ropes. Their legs weren't even tied up. He cant use the tripped excuse. He simply spun, and and made a damn near perfectly controlled roll onto the table outside the ring. He wanted none of Williams 2 years ago and wanted none of him 2 nights ago. Funny thing is that he was probably winning if there was some shreds of honesty in the sport. He felt Williams cranking up the activity level. Also saw that Williams wasn't leaning over into his punches anymore, so he wasnt available for Cintron's big right. Williams adjusted and Cintron dove the fuck out of the ring.
It wasn't intentional. That makes ZERO sense.
Here's a post I saw on another board that pretty much nails what I'm thinking here.
Here's a post I saw on another board that pretty much nails what I'm thinking here.
QUOTE
Argh. This is 9/11 syndrome. I am so fed up with it.
Nothing can ever be explained simply anymore, it's always a conspiracy, no matter how obvious and simple the evidence is. I get it. You're watching the fight, it ends abruptly, you're pissed off and you want that fucker to continue. He gets stretchered out, now you remember the Martinez fight, and your mind starts to lumber ahead about how much you hate Cintron, your night is wrecked, and on and on you go. I get it. Initially I was pissed, too, but when morning comes doesn't the selfish anger wear off a bit?
So let's review.
(A) Cintron intentionally threw himself out of the ring in just the 4th round of a fight that his corner thought he was winning, and indeed on the scorecards was damn close to a draw.
(
He was smart and quick enough to do this during a legitimate fall. So he must have had a preconceived plan of some kind.
© Cintron himself knew the obscure California rules concerning this sort of thing. That is, he actually KNEW ahead of time that if he fucking THREW himself out of the ring with 3.5 rounds over, and he couldn't get back in the ring in time, that it would go to the cards. Kermit Cintron? Uh huh. I don't think anyone in the HBO crew knew this until they were told, and I'd bet 1% of the people on this board knew this, but dumbass Kermit I-can-barely-put-a-sentence-together Cintron knew this one bizarre rule, hey?
(D) Not only did he know the rule, see A and B above about how he planned to use it to his advantage through an immeasurably freakish and insane plane involving launching his body out of the ring.
(E) Cintron (who is brilliant according to most here, given his unparalleled ability to memorize all rules in every state and plan impossible events to escape a fight he thought he was winning) is sort of an idiot savant - that is, he is brilliant in some ways, but in others he is retarded. Case in point - he risked career-ending injury throwing himself out of the ring, and somehow it never occurred to him that being permanently crippled is not worth MAYBE winning one truncated fight with minimal value.
(F) The doctors who were seen and heard by many (including HBO personnel) telling him to stay down because of a possible neck/back injury were also plants, thus showing the genius mastermind Cintron is that most ignorant fans like myself just weren't aware of. He paid the doctors off to yet further fortify his excuse, which of course all led to his rich payload of...
A FUCKING LOSS.
Yes, people, it is obvious isn't it? I just couldn't see it like you paranoid fellows pissed off that you didn't even get through 2 beers.
What has happened to common sense? This happens every time some sort of aborted fight incident occurs. These fighters are mostly high school dropouts who do everything by instinct, and have IQs down at about 75 most of the time. Can you folks just wake up for once and stop reading into this with so much emotion and conspiratorial nonsense?
Yeah, Cintron has perhaps one time ever pulled bitch stuff in the past, but even that I think was him being so legitimately dazed by a punch that he thought he got butted for real. Otherwise this guy stood in there with concrete Marg twice and got his head handed to him, and has stuck it out with the likes of Angulo and never gave up. Maybe he's not all that likeable, but to even conjecture that he did all of this in order to ultimately lose a fight is so stupid it isn't even worth pursuing. He wasn't even tired, and he landed more punches than Williams. He virtually shut down Williams, and tall Paul was fighting Cintron's fight. Kermit was getting extremely close with that right hand, and he wasn't even breathing hard. Even if he somehow really did have a plan to try and weasel out of the fight, why in hell would he implement in when he was in such a good position, as opposed to waiting for a time when things were looking bad for him?
None of this makes any sense. Honestly, what is truly the more likely explanation for what happened? That Cintron is an idiot who fell out of the ring after a clinch not even initiated by himself, and subsequently was told by 2 overly-cautious ringside doctors not to move due to possible neck trauma (or as Kermit said he was told, a punctured lung) as heard and corroborated by numerous people
-OR-
see (A)-(F) above about how he threw himself senselessly out of the ring in order to immediately lose the fight?
The only post I saw in here that I think could describe a scenario where Cintron legitimately deserves criticism cited the concept that the fall was legit, but that perhaps once Cintron was on the ground and the doctors were telling him not to move, one of his corner/camp came over and told him to stay down, perhaps having checked on the rule in California. I think that is unlikely, but at least it is plausible in explaining what happened in such a way that Cintron would indeed deserve harsh criticism. Otherwise, let it go. Yeesh. Next time some poor sap will have a heart attack in the ring and half the people here will claim he "bitched out" by purposely eating a high-cholesterol diet leading up to the fight.
Nothing can ever be explained simply anymore, it's always a conspiracy, no matter how obvious and simple the evidence is. I get it. You're watching the fight, it ends abruptly, you're pissed off and you want that fucker to continue. He gets stretchered out, now you remember the Martinez fight, and your mind starts to lumber ahead about how much you hate Cintron, your night is wrecked, and on and on you go. I get it. Initially I was pissed, too, but when morning comes doesn't the selfish anger wear off a bit?
So let's review.
(A) Cintron intentionally threw himself out of the ring in just the 4th round of a fight that his corner thought he was winning, and indeed on the scorecards was damn close to a draw.
(
He was smart and quick enough to do this during a legitimate fall. So he must have had a preconceived plan of some kind.© Cintron himself knew the obscure California rules concerning this sort of thing. That is, he actually KNEW ahead of time that if he fucking THREW himself out of the ring with 3.5 rounds over, and he couldn't get back in the ring in time, that it would go to the cards. Kermit Cintron? Uh huh. I don't think anyone in the HBO crew knew this until they were told, and I'd bet 1% of the people on this board knew this, but dumbass Kermit I-can-barely-put-a-sentence-together Cintron knew this one bizarre rule, hey?
(D) Not only did he know the rule, see A and B above about how he planned to use it to his advantage through an immeasurably freakish and insane plane involving launching his body out of the ring.
(E) Cintron (who is brilliant according to most here, given his unparalleled ability to memorize all rules in every state and plan impossible events to escape a fight he thought he was winning) is sort of an idiot savant - that is, he is brilliant in some ways, but in others he is retarded. Case in point - he risked career-ending injury throwing himself out of the ring, and somehow it never occurred to him that being permanently crippled is not worth MAYBE winning one truncated fight with minimal value.
(F) The doctors who were seen and heard by many (including HBO personnel) telling him to stay down because of a possible neck/back injury were also plants, thus showing the genius mastermind Cintron is that most ignorant fans like myself just weren't aware of. He paid the doctors off to yet further fortify his excuse, which of course all led to his rich payload of...
A FUCKING LOSS.
Yes, people, it is obvious isn't it? I just couldn't see it like you paranoid fellows pissed off that you didn't even get through 2 beers.
What has happened to common sense? This happens every time some sort of aborted fight incident occurs. These fighters are mostly high school dropouts who do everything by instinct, and have IQs down at about 75 most of the time. Can you folks just wake up for once and stop reading into this with so much emotion and conspiratorial nonsense?
Yeah, Cintron has perhaps one time ever pulled bitch stuff in the past, but even that I think was him being so legitimately dazed by a punch that he thought he got butted for real. Otherwise this guy stood in there with concrete Marg twice and got his head handed to him, and has stuck it out with the likes of Angulo and never gave up. Maybe he's not all that likeable, but to even conjecture that he did all of this in order to ultimately lose a fight is so stupid it isn't even worth pursuing. He wasn't even tired, and he landed more punches than Williams. He virtually shut down Williams, and tall Paul was fighting Cintron's fight. Kermit was getting extremely close with that right hand, and he wasn't even breathing hard. Even if he somehow really did have a plan to try and weasel out of the fight, why in hell would he implement in when he was in such a good position, as opposed to waiting for a time when things were looking bad for him?
None of this makes any sense. Honestly, what is truly the more likely explanation for what happened? That Cintron is an idiot who fell out of the ring after a clinch not even initiated by himself, and subsequently was told by 2 overly-cautious ringside doctors not to move due to possible neck trauma (or as Kermit said he was told, a punctured lung) as heard and corroborated by numerous people
-OR-
see (A)-(F) above about how he threw himself senselessly out of the ring in order to immediately lose the fight?
The only post I saw in here that I think could describe a scenario where Cintron legitimately deserves criticism cited the concept that the fall was legit, but that perhaps once Cintron was on the ground and the doctors were telling him not to move, one of his corner/camp came over and told him to stay down, perhaps having checked on the rule in California. I think that is unlikely, but at least it is plausible in explaining what happened in such a way that Cintron would indeed deserve harsh criticism. Otherwise, let it go. Yeesh. Next time some poor sap will have a heart attack in the ring and half the people here will claim he "bitched out" by purposely eating a high-cholesterol diet leading up to the fight.
Not sure for me. It looked a lot easier to bounce off the ropes than duck down and go right through them. But hey, only the man himself wiill ever know.
All I would say in his favour is that i sincerely doubt he knew the rule, and I doubt even more that he'd want to win a fight that way.
All I would say in his favour is that i sincerely doubt he knew the rule, and I doubt even more that he'd want to win a fight that way.
At this point it doesn't matter. Cintron suffers from the boy who cried wolf syndrome. He's faked shit before so what would make us think he isn't lying now. If a motherfucker is always stealing from you, the minute something goes missing you're gonna assume he's the dude that needs to get a whooping. Same thing here. Cintron's track record makes us believe he did it on purpose.
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ May 11 2010, 09:30 AM) 
At this point it doesn't matter. Cintron suffers from the boy who cried wolf syndrome. He's faked shit before so what would make us think he isn't lying now. If a motherfucker is always stealing from you, the minute something goes missing you're gonna assume he's the dude that needs to get a whooping. Same thing here. Cintron's track record makes us believe he did it on purpose.
Exactly and it goes back to, if it happened to anyone else. We probably wouldn't even be having this discussion which says something.
I don't know if he was truly injured or not but the fall does seem suspect. Can;t blame us for questioning it. I do however, have a hard time imagining him purposely diving off the ring, it's not like Williams was putting that much pressure, the round had just begun and Cintron had landed a huge right on Williams seconds before. So why would he do it? Sure he has broken his hand before, been KO'd twice and had that weird incident with Martinez but he has never actually pulled off something like this.
Yes, he jumped out of the ring. The more I watch it, the more obvious it becomes.
Yup. Kermit took a dive...
QUOTE
By Rick Reeno
The drama from last Saturday's junior middleweight contest between Paul Williams and Kermit Cintron is still going strong. Cintron, and his promoter Lou DiBella, plan to make good on their promise to file a petition with the California State Athletic Commission to reverse last Saturday's four round technical split-decision loss to Williams.
The fight, which took place at the Home Depot Center in Carson, ended in the fourth round when during a clinch Williams tried to do a quick side maneuver to land a hook, which sent both fighters falling backwards. Williams fell on the canvas, while Cintron went through the ropes and landed on a ringside table.
Cintron spoke with BoxingScene.com late Saturday night, and claimed the ringside physician would not allow him to continue. According to Cintron, he asked the doctor for a few minutes to catch his breath after the fall knocked the wind out of him - and the doctor, fearing that Cintron may have suffered a punctured lung, refused his request and stopped the contest.
"When I went out of the ring. I hit the corner of something on my right lower back and it took my breath away. I couldn't catch my breath for about a minute. [The doctor] kept telling me the fight was over and 'let's take you to the hospital so we can check you.' I was fine after a minute. All I needed to do was catch my breath. The guy that was holding my head, he kept saying that I had a punctured lung. I said that 'seriously, I'm fine now, I want to continue the fight and don't take this fight away from me' and they took the f**king fight away from me," Cintron told BoxingScene.com.
The doctor, Paul Wallace, is now defending himself. According to Wallace, Cintron was asked twice if he was able to continue and both times he replied "no." Wallace said he would have allowed the fight to restart if Cintron had indicated that he was capable of continuing.
"I did say I wanted the fight stopped because the fighter twice said he could not continue He was asked, 'Can you continue?' and he said 'no.' Twice. If he had mentioned to me something like, 'Give me a moment ... ,' I understand; these are warriors. Any hint that he still wanted to participate we would've given that to him. We would have got him up and given him a second evaluation," Wallace told The LA Times.
Once Wallace called the fight, he claims Cintron changed his mind and wanted the fight to continue.
"[Cintron] did change his mind [and said] 'I want to fight, don't take the fight from me,'" Wallace said.
Williams' promoter Dan Goossen is still in disbelief over how the fight played out. Pursuant to the governing rules of California, the fight was sent to the scorecards because three rounds had been completed. But Goossen told BoxingScene.com the fight should have been ruled as a technical knockout win for Williams - because there was no involvement of a foul, accidental or intentional.
While Cintron wants to secure an immediate rematch, Goossen sees no reason for another fight to happen. If HBO is interested in a return bout, then Goossen and Team Williams will consider it, but otherwise they plan to move forward.
"It's certainly not the way we wanted the fight to end. I thought Paul was coming on and getting back into his punisher style and then this happened, but the rules - and any rules - not just California rules and not just the unified rules - clearly state that if a fighter sustains an injury that is an accident, and is not an accidental foul or has anything to do with a foul, and the fighter can't continue - then everybody's rules say the same thing - the fighter who wasn't injured wins by TKO. It went to the decision but it should have been a TKO. No one likes a fight to end like this. No one walks away real happy but a W is a W," Goossen told BoxingScene.com.
"I didn't see anything compelling in that fight to have rematch. Certainly if HBO was interested, we would take a look at anything in that regard. We came there to fight, that's what want we wanted to do. Rhe way it ended certainly wasn't satisfying for anyone and we move on from here."
The drama from last Saturday's junior middleweight contest between Paul Williams and Kermit Cintron is still going strong. Cintron, and his promoter Lou DiBella, plan to make good on their promise to file a petition with the California State Athletic Commission to reverse last Saturday's four round technical split-decision loss to Williams.
The fight, which took place at the Home Depot Center in Carson, ended in the fourth round when during a clinch Williams tried to do a quick side maneuver to land a hook, which sent both fighters falling backwards. Williams fell on the canvas, while Cintron went through the ropes and landed on a ringside table.
Cintron spoke with BoxingScene.com late Saturday night, and claimed the ringside physician would not allow him to continue. According to Cintron, he asked the doctor for a few minutes to catch his breath after the fall knocked the wind out of him - and the doctor, fearing that Cintron may have suffered a punctured lung, refused his request and stopped the contest.
"When I went out of the ring. I hit the corner of something on my right lower back and it took my breath away. I couldn't catch my breath for about a minute. [The doctor] kept telling me the fight was over and 'let's take you to the hospital so we can check you.' I was fine after a minute. All I needed to do was catch my breath. The guy that was holding my head, he kept saying that I had a punctured lung. I said that 'seriously, I'm fine now, I want to continue the fight and don't take this fight away from me' and they took the f**king fight away from me," Cintron told BoxingScene.com.
The doctor, Paul Wallace, is now defending himself. According to Wallace, Cintron was asked twice if he was able to continue and both times he replied "no." Wallace said he would have allowed the fight to restart if Cintron had indicated that he was capable of continuing.
"I did say I wanted the fight stopped because the fighter twice said he could not continue He was asked, 'Can you continue?' and he said 'no.' Twice. If he had mentioned to me something like, 'Give me a moment ... ,' I understand; these are warriors. Any hint that he still wanted to participate we would've given that to him. We would have got him up and given him a second evaluation," Wallace told The LA Times.
Once Wallace called the fight, he claims Cintron changed his mind and wanted the fight to continue.
"[Cintron] did change his mind [and said] 'I want to fight, don't take the fight from me,'" Wallace said.
Williams' promoter Dan Goossen is still in disbelief over how the fight played out. Pursuant to the governing rules of California, the fight was sent to the scorecards because three rounds had been completed. But Goossen told BoxingScene.com the fight should have been ruled as a technical knockout win for Williams - because there was no involvement of a foul, accidental or intentional.
While Cintron wants to secure an immediate rematch, Goossen sees no reason for another fight to happen. If HBO is interested in a return bout, then Goossen and Team Williams will consider it, but otherwise they plan to move forward.
"It's certainly not the way we wanted the fight to end. I thought Paul was coming on and getting back into his punisher style and then this happened, but the rules - and any rules - not just California rules and not just the unified rules - clearly state that if a fighter sustains an injury that is an accident, and is not an accidental foul or has anything to do with a foul, and the fighter can't continue - then everybody's rules say the same thing - the fighter who wasn't injured wins by TKO. It went to the decision but it should have been a TKO. No one likes a fight to end like this. No one walks away real happy but a W is a W," Goossen told BoxingScene.com.
"I didn't see anything compelling in that fight to have rematch. Certainly if HBO was interested, we would take a look at anything in that regard. We came there to fight, that's what want we wanted to do. Rhe way it ended certainly wasn't satisfying for anyone and we move on from here."
Well one thing we now know is that Cintron didn't want to continue, according to the doctor who checked him out.
So basically Cintron's credibility is messed up right there, whether he jumped out of the ring or not. In truth, the video replay makes him look suspect at best. But that not withstanding, we now know the truth.
Cintron had NO INTENTIONS of carrying on with the fight....
So basically Cintron's credibility is messed up right there, whether he jumped out of the ring or not. In truth, the video replay makes him look suspect at best. But that not withstanding, we now know the truth.
Cintron had NO INTENTIONS of carrying on with the fight....
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ May 10 2010, 06:30 PM)
At this point it doesn't matter. Cintron suffers from the boy who cried wolf syndrome. He's faked shit before so what would make us think he isn't lying now. If a motherfucker is always stealing from you, the minute something goes missing you're gonna assume he's the dude that needs to get a whooping. Same thing here. Cintron's track record makes us believe he did it on purpose.
Exactly. Whether or not he actually intended to jump out of the ring or not, this is kind of shit that only seems to happen to him (and Hasim Rahman).
Do I think Cintron actually intended to leap out of the ring in order to fake an injury and win a garbage decision because he knew about the California rules? No. That seems pretty far fetched.
Do I think once he fell out of the ring he wanted to continue? No way. For whatever reason.
Do I think Mayweather or Mosley or Pacquaio et all would have flown out of the ring the same way Kermit did had it been them getting their feet tangled with Williams?
Absolutely fucking not.
QUOTE (Fitz @ May 10 2010, 07:02 PM)
Exactly and it goes back to, if it happened to anyone else. We probably wouldn't even be having this discussion which says something.
Thing is Fitz, do you think this would have happened to anyone else?
I don't. This type of shit only seems to happen to him.
(by the way, it's me, Slim, lol)
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ May 11 2010, 10:53 AM)
Thing is Fitz, do you think this would have happened to anyone else?
I don't. This type of shit only seems to happen to him.
(by the way, it's me, Slim, lol)
I don't. This type of shit only seems to happen to him.
(by the way, it's me, Slim, lol)
Come on man, you don't need to tell me it's you. I'm not that dumb
Probably wouldn't have, lol.
I gotta admit I kinda chuckled when I saw this topic. For as strange as Kermit's career has been so far I don't think he Intentionally leaped out of the ring. You can clearly see that he trips over Paul's foot.
QUOTE (xxxxxx @ May 10 2010, 08:36 PM)
I gotta admit I kinda chuckled when I saw this topic. For as strange as Kermit's career has been so far I don't think he Intentionally leaped out of the ring. You can clearly see that he trips over Paul's foot.
I read on another forum that in slow-motion you do not see Kermit actually trip over Paul's feet. People have several perspectives from different camera angles and video feeds.
Jack
QUOTE
Based on the loose rope strands, which shows the part of negligence on the part of the California Commission, in conjunction with the force and velocity of how much the tangled feet threw off Kermit's equilibrium, the result for me remains inconclusive.
Based on what you wrote, it would seem you feel it's ADEQUATELY CONCLUSIVE. It's OK, 1000, your not alone.
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ May 10 2010, 04:05 PM)
I voted Not Sure,
Based on the loose rope strands, which shows the part of negligence on the part of the California Commission, in conjunction with the force and velocity of how much the tangled feet threw off Kermit's equilibrium, the result for me remains inconclusive.
However, I believe that when Kermit was on the ground he most likely choose to stay there by not showing resistance to what was happening or even trying to get up. (His biggest mistakes, IF he really wanted to continue, he should have tried to protest that that time, not wait until he learned he had lost to show upset about the fight being stopped.)
If only Kermit had been pushed, punched, or fallen from the ring from something more plausible, no one would be making an issue of this, and would have just attributed the outcome of this fight to "shit luck."
Jack
Based on the loose rope strands, which shows the part of negligence on the part of the California Commission, in conjunction with the force and velocity of how much the tangled feet threw off Kermit's equilibrium, the result for me remains inconclusive.
However, I believe that when Kermit was on the ground he most likely choose to stay there by not showing resistance to what was happening or even trying to get up. (His biggest mistakes, IF he really wanted to continue, he should have tried to protest that that time, not wait until he learned he had lost to show upset about the fight being stopped.)
If only Kermit had been pushed, punched, or fallen from the ring from something more plausible, no one would be making an issue of this, and would have just attributed the outcome of this fight to "shit luck."
Jack
Based on my deduction of Cintron's huge pussiness quality and the lack of testicular fortitude my conclusion is this. Cintron lacks heart and needs to go work at Burger King!
QUOTE (Fitz @ May 10 2010, 07:02 PM)
Exactly and it goes back to, if it happened to anyone else. We probably wouldn't even be having this discussion which says something.
Exactly...Sorry Jack but I think this is a BS thread(I can't believe were talking about this)..Nothing could make me change my opinion that it was nothing but a freak accident..
I had Cintron winning the fight..I think he was doin very good boxing and Williams was the one who was frustrated..If they ever fight again,I got my money on Cintron..He was outboxing Williams..Before I used to think Williams would have the best chance of beating Floyd(before Pac blew up to welter) but now I think it'd be an easy,EASY win for Floyd..Yeah,Floyd doesn't hit like Cintron but Floyd would just completely outbox him..
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ May 10 2010, 08:41 PM)
I read on another forum that in slow-motion you do not see Kermit actually trip over Paul's feet. People have several perspectives from different camera angles and video feeds.
Jack
Jack
Well Jack...if he did intentionally leap out of the ring he's clearly got more issues mentally then I had previously thought.
Is it just me or does anyone else think he could have "attempted" to grab the ropes to prevent from falling completely out of the ring. Not like he was out on his feet going down. Most people try to catch their fall, to me it looks like he did a soft leap, got skinny, slid threw the ropes, and rolled. Then again he could just have a slow reaction time like he did when he got a "head butt" from Martinez 
The fact that this thread exists is hilarious.
This is quality THREAD. We should have more of these kinds of threads. Keep 'em coming people.
I voted NO.
I voted NO.
Have you guys ever gone to a position where you are gonna bump somebody... and then the very thing that you did to avoid bumping that somebody was the very same reason you bumped that somebody? And that somebody had the look in his face, "Why did you bump me?".
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ May 10 2010, 09:41 PM)
I read on another forum that in slow-motion you do not see Kermit actually trip over Paul's feet. People have several perspectives from different camera angles and video feeds.
Jack
Jack
Absolutely correct. There was no trip or stumble. You can clearly see him run right by Williams' feet and dive out of the ring. He does a controlled roll onto the table. Kermit should now be called Colt Seavers...
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ May 10 2010, 08:41 PM)
I read on another forum that in slow-motion you do not see Kermit actually trip over Paul's feet. People have several perspectives from different camera angles and video feeds.
Jack
Jack
I re watched the incident several times and I can see why some people think he didn't trip over Williams. From what I see...Cintrons right foot does look to get tangled with William's lower leg/foot, but he doesn't head out of the ring at that point. His momentum goes back away from the ropes after his right foot bumps into Williams lower leg/foot and then the momentum goes back towards the ropes with no trip which is odd, but his momentum was heading that way to begin with.
LOL @ "Couldn't he have grabbed the ropes?".
The dude is wearing fucking BOXING GLOVES. They don't exactly pass the "Isotoner Test" (picking a nickel up off a table). You cant grab shit w gloves on. LOL.
Also, LOL @ "He did a controlled dive or roll". Suddenly, this dimwit is a fucking seasoned stunt man.
Give me a fucking break.
The dude is wearing fucking BOXING GLOVES. They don't exactly pass the "Isotoner Test" (picking a nickel up off a table). You cant grab shit w gloves on. LOL.
Also, LOL @ "He did a controlled dive or roll". Suddenly, this dimwit is a fucking seasoned stunt man.
Give me a fucking break.
QUOTE (Method @ May 11 2010, 07:10 AM)
LOL @ "Couldn't he have grabbed the ropes?".
The dude is wearing fucking BOXING GLOVES. They don't exactly pass the "Isotoner Test" (picking a nickel up off a table). You cant grab shit w gloves on. LOL.
Also, LOL @ "He did a controlled dive or roll". Suddenly, this dimwit is a fucking seasoned stunt man.
Give me a fucking break.
The dude is wearing fucking BOXING GLOVES. They don't exactly pass the "Isotoner Test" (picking a nickel up off a table). You cant grab shit w gloves on. LOL.
Also, LOL @ "He did a controlled dive or roll". Suddenly, this dimwit is a fucking seasoned stunt man.
Give me a fucking break.
Not with is fucking hands literally. I mean reach out with his arms and cuff it in the inside of his elbow to prevent from falling down. Duh he cant literally grab the ropes with his gloves.
Classic thread on the comedy alone. LOL
While I think it is very possible he bailed on the fight when he could have continued...I am not really sure what the upside would be in diving out of the ring.
Anyone?
Anyone?
There is no upside. The dive from the ring was not intentional/premeditated.
Kermit Cintron took a FUCKING dive. He INTENTIONALLY dove out the ring and faked an injury to get out of the fight. The doctor asked him twice if he could continue and Cintron said NO! Once the doctor called the fight Cintron acted like he wanted to continue. Cintron is soft minded and I don't see how this could be defended. Fuck Him.
I think Cintron did not want to continue when out of the ring (and it looked to me like he could have), but why would he intentionally dive out of the ropes risking injury?
Again, what is the upside there?
Again, what is the upside there?
QUOTE (JD @ May 11 2010, 10:05 AM)
I think Cintron did not want to continue when out of the ring (and it looked to me like he could have), but why would he intentionally dive out of the ropes risking injury?
Again, what is the upside there?
Again, what is the upside there?
The upside would be to take a tumble and have an excuse not to fight. What other way could he have gotten out of the fight?
So you think that after he landed that right hand on Williams and their legs got tangled up after an exchange...Williams falling back, and Cintron falling forward he said to himself "I am going to dive out of the ring of head first and risk serious injury so I can get out of this thing!"...
Yes?
I mean, I have no soft spot for this guy, but this theory seems kind of asinine. I think he could have continued and chose not to, and that may very well be because he thought he was up on the cards...so there is some poetic justice in the decision.
But the idea that after all those weeks of training his ass off, he decided to risk serious injury by swan diving out of the ring to find his way out of the fight is ridiculous. He wasn't being beaten on, he wasn't over matched, and he certainly wasn't struggling. I think it was a freak accident that he may have tried to use to his advantage...but diving out of the ring like that with intent? LOL...nah, don't see it.
Yes?
I mean, I have no soft spot for this guy, but this theory seems kind of asinine. I think he could have continued and chose not to, and that may very well be because he thought he was up on the cards...so there is some poetic justice in the decision.
But the idea that after all those weeks of training his ass off, he decided to risk serious injury by swan diving out of the ring to find his way out of the fight is ridiculous. He wasn't being beaten on, he wasn't over matched, and he certainly wasn't struggling. I think it was a freak accident that he may have tried to use to his advantage...but diving out of the ring like that with intent? LOL...nah, don't see it.
I don't think he went into the fight with this in mind but once the oppurtunity presented itself he went for it. Cintron is notorious for pulling shit like this. Him diving out of the ring was just another overreaction so that he can get some type of sympathy. Remember how he just stopped in the middle of the fight against Margarito to coplain about rabbit punches? He did that numerous times. Against Martinez he stopped fighting and took a knee because he thought he was headbutted. He made no attempt to beat the 10 count when he obviously could have. Cintron is a drama queen and nothing he does would surprise me.
I think there is an ocean of difference between stopping to whine or complain to the ref and diving head first out of the ring intentionally, knowing full well that he could seriously injure himself. No one is disputing that he is a drama queen...but I think this goes beyond the realm if logic.
The thought that he knowingly and intentionally dove head first out of the ring after training his ass off for weeks, in a fight that most did not have him losing at the time, in an effort to find a way out of it...after being competitive and arguably outboxing Williams for the first 3 rounds...all so he could get himself out of it, is beyond far-fetched and kind of silly.
The thought that he knowingly and intentionally dove head first out of the ring after training his ass off for weeks, in a fight that most did not have him losing at the time, in an effort to find a way out of it...after being competitive and arguably outboxing Williams for the first 3 rounds...all so he could get himself out of it, is beyond far-fetched and kind of silly.
QUOTE (JD @ May 11 2010, 10:24 AM)
I think there is an ocean of difference between stopping to whine or complain to the ref and diving head first out of the ring intentionally, knowing full well that he could seriously injure himself.
The thought that he knowingly and intentionally dove head first out of the ring after training his ass off for weeks, in a fight that most did not have him losing at the time, in an effort to find a way out of it...after being competitive and arguably outboxing Williams for the first 3 rounds...all so he could get himself out of it, is beyond far-fetched and kind of silly.
The thought that he knowingly and intentionally dove head first out of the ring after training his ass off for weeks, in a fight that most did not have him losing at the time, in an effort to find a way out of it...after being competitive and arguably outboxing Williams for the first 3 rounds...all so he could get himself out of it, is beyond far-fetched and kind of silly.
Considering Cintron was the one involved, I don't think it's silly at all.
Looking at the responses... its about 50-50 so it's obviously NOT as silly as you and others think it may be. Just my opinion anyways and I'll stick to it. I saw the fight at least 20 times now and I believe that is what I saw.
So you think that after he landed that right hand on Williams and their legs got tangled up after an exchange...Williams falling back, and Cintron falling forward he said to himself "I am going to dive out of the ring of head first and risk serious injury so I can get out of this thing!"...
Yes?
Yes?
It IS a ridiculous, asinine, notion, JD, but look who you have supporting it.
Yuo've got to be one quick thinking motherfucker to fall into the ropes and think to yourself 'Y'know what? I've just fell over Williams - I'm not sure how he tripped up, but I'm falling towards to the ropes so I wonder...erm, oh look, a table with a TV on! I'll fall into that head first and hurt myself as I really can't be arsed fighting on'.
To do that in front of ALL the people watching and watching it live on TV?
Nah.
To do that in front of ALL the people watching and watching it live on TV?
Nah.
QUOTE (Method @ May 11 2010, 10:59 AM)
It IS a ridiculous, asinine, notion, JD, but look who you have supporting it.
Yes, myself and at least 10 other posters.
Also, I know you post over at ther other board so I'm sure you have seen that most of those guys feel the same way I do. This shit IS ridiculous.
Yes, I know there are some that share your "view", NONE of whom are opinions I respect. I have yet to read any journalists or analysts that share "your" view. Most echo the following, which I pretty much stated verbatim on Sunday...
QUOTE
Not only is it a stretch of athletic proportion to claim – as two judges did – that Williams won either three or four rounds in the aborted match, but such reasoning picks up a despicable scent when coupled with an attack on an admittedly emotional, but always brave, competitor.
Past or no past, it defies sensibility to think – in a split-second’s time – Cintron devised a plan to land a solid punch on Williams, spin him to the ground and fly over him to the ring floor to escape continuation of a fight he’d controlled from start to finish in the eyes of a third judge.
Or that he was merely acting or changing his story while insisting to the doctor he could continue. - Lyle Fitzsimmons, "Cintron’s Saturday Critics Veer From Stupid To Offensive "
Past or no past, it defies sensibility to think – in a split-second’s time – Cintron devised a plan to land a solid punch on Williams, spin him to the ground and fly over him to the ring floor to escape continuation of a fight he’d controlled from start to finish in the eyes of a third judge.
Or that he was merely acting or changing his story while insisting to the doctor he could continue. - Lyle Fitzsimmons, "Cintron’s Saturday Critics Veer From Stupid To Offensive "
QUOTE
Yes, Cintron tripped over P-Will’s big feet and wasn’t literally “thrown” WWE-style from the ring, but it was the momentum he had from getting tied up by Williams as the gangly giant fell to the canvas that carried him out of the ring.
Anyway, karma, as you and many fight fans see it, will be played out. Cintron will not receive much sympathy from the boxing world. You can be certain of that.
I don’t even have to browse through the various message boards and boxing forums to know that fans are describing him as a “faker,” “actor,” “quitter,” “coward,” “b__ch,” “p__sy,” and “loser.” For the record, I don’t agree with any of these labels. - Doug fisher
Anyway, karma, as you and many fight fans see it, will be played out. Cintron will not receive much sympathy from the boxing world. You can be certain of that.
I don’t even have to browse through the various message boards and boxing forums to know that fans are describing him as a “faker,” “actor,” “quitter,” “coward,” “b__ch,” “p__sy,” and “loser.” For the record, I don’t agree with any of these labels. - Doug fisher
QUOTE
As for the scoring of the bout, I found it head-scratching that, while most ringside observers had Cintron leading, you had one judge that had given every round to Williams, with another one having Cintron pitching a shutout. So much for consistency, huh? But I have to admit, like everyone else, I assumed- incorrectly- that since the fight hadn’t gone four full, completed rounds that this fight was a no-contest. But California only requires three full rounds and the start of the fourth for a decision to be rendered, which seems to make no sense. But this brings about the bigger question: for all the issues facing professional boxing, isn’t having uniformity, in terms of rules, one of the first things that needs to be dealt with? - Steve Kim
So the notion is that he threw himself out of the ring head first and risked serious injury, with the intent of finding a way out of a fight he was doing well in.
OK...LOL.
OK...LOL.
The vid most certanly shows a little leap to avoid the bottom rope. Im unsure of the reason in his head for the leap. maybe he was thinking id rather leap than trip?
I do not think he did it to get out of the fight.
I do not think he did it to get out of the fight.
QUOTE (D-MARV @ May 11 2010, 04:17 PM)
Intentional or not, Cintron is one clumsyass mofo.
There is just absolutely NO FUCKING WAY that shit was premeditated. NONE.
Maybe his subconscious told him to get out the ring...lol
As far I could tell, the shit was unnecessary...he didn't have to fall out like that...
As far I could tell, the shit was unnecessary...he didn't have to fall out like that...
I cant believe the Dirrell faking it arguement got dismissed out of hand but some people are giving this a lot of thought. 2 different things I know, but there are similarities. Only difference is there can be no doubt Dirrell knew the consequences for Abraham, Cintron on the other hand most likely didnt know what would happen
Anybody that honestly believes this guy leaped from the ring on purpose....is a F'N moron.
You can say you think he quit after the fall...I get that. You can say you hate him because of past incidents....I get it. You can even say that the dirty history of boxing inclines you to think up crazy shit.....I get it.
BUT....if you really believe a professional boxer that was fighting a very good fight on the national stage purposley leaped out of the ring...you are a nut, plain and simple.
The guys legs got tangled, they both fell, one fell out of the ring and did not continue the fight....end of story. The guy did not make a concious effort to dive from the ring onto the ring table.
Balance can be a bitch during a fall.....I have fallen plenty of times while playing basketball where my momentum from trying for a steal or a save would most likely make it LOOK as though I dove....when in fact that was not the case.
Here you have a guy in a physical fight, adrinaline pumping and in midfall your brain has to react to a fall, an opponent, ropes.....there are so many instances that are instinctivly thought out....you try to do whatever to avoid damage....
But none of that matters....right.....this guy just stage dived into the table....
That shit makes zero sense....and if you believe it focus your energy elsewhere....maybe Loch Ness or the JFK assassination.
You can say you think he quit after the fall...I get that. You can say you hate him because of past incidents....I get it. You can even say that the dirty history of boxing inclines you to think up crazy shit.....I get it.
BUT....if you really believe a professional boxer that was fighting a very good fight on the national stage purposley leaped out of the ring...you are a nut, plain and simple.
The guys legs got tangled, they both fell, one fell out of the ring and did not continue the fight....end of story. The guy did not make a concious effort to dive from the ring onto the ring table.
Balance can be a bitch during a fall.....I have fallen plenty of times while playing basketball where my momentum from trying for a steal or a save would most likely make it LOOK as though I dove....when in fact that was not the case.
Here you have a guy in a physical fight, adrinaline pumping and in midfall your brain has to react to a fall, an opponent, ropes.....there are so many instances that are instinctivly thought out....you try to do whatever to avoid damage....
But none of that matters....right.....this guy just stage dived into the table....
That shit makes zero sense....and if you believe it focus your energy elsewhere....maybe Loch Ness or the JFK assassination.
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