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D-MARV
I know they were suppose to have some type of tournament but I don't know where that stands right now.


What do you guys think?

Tim Bradley
Devon Alexander
Amir Khan
Marcos Maidana
Zab Judah
Nate Campbell/Victor Ortiz winner



I would be hyped for this... Now the downside, obviously, would mean that these fighters would be tied up for the next two years and wouldn't have a shot at Mayweather or Pacquiao.

I think SOMEONE should make this happen.
King Eugene
Truth be told I wouldn't mind seeing Manny in that tournament. Of course I know it would never happen but that would make it very interesting. Hell go a Super 8 and throw Marquez and Paulie in there.
D-MARV
Manny and Floyd would never do anything like this. Not enough money involved.
King Eugene
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ May 14 2010, 09:39 AM) *
I would prefer super 4 or super 8, single elimination, with a losers bracket.

Now thats a damn good idea.
thehype
No.

This tournament shit is whack.

Just make the damn fights...no need for a tournament.
salvador
It's a great idea. All the super 6 guys at 168 have raised their profile and even the losers are probably going to end up richer as a result of it.

With the exception of Zab and maybe Khan, all of the 140 guys could use the publicity. And obviously there's some really interesting matchups in there.

It would be interesting to see HBO following SHOWTIME for a change.

lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (thehype @ May 14 2010, 03:15 PM) *
No.

This tournament shit is whack.

Just make the damn fights...no need for a tournament.


There SHOULD be no need for a tournament. But we all know just make the damn fights aint how it goes, more's the pity. As of the way boxing is right now, I tip my hat to showtime and the 168 lb'ers to commiting to a couple of years of quality fights against the top opposition and would be happy to see HBO follow suit. Maybe they can look at the super six as a blueprint but try to improve on it somehow. Make it more inclusive, as in the door not being closed to the rest of the division for 2 whole years while the top 6 scrap it out. Not sure how it could work, but hey, thats what those cunts get paid for.
Maxy
End of the day these cunts should all be fighting each other anyway....regardless....

Too many pussies wanting to protect their phony fabricated records these days.

Boxers make the belts, its not the other way around. So lets get it on.
D-MARV
I WISH it would be easy to just make the damn fight BUT for some odd reason it just doesn't work out that way. I think the "Super 6" as been a success over on Showtime and just thought that HBO would follow up. 140 is loaded and I would love to see all of the different match ups.
Col Reb
I like the idea of an eight man single elimination tourney.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (thehype @ May 14 2010, 09:15 AM) *
No.

This tournament shit is whack.

Just make the damn fights...no need for a tournament.


i second this statement 100%
thehype
QUOTE (salvador @ May 14 2010, 04:19 PM) *
It's a great idea. All the super 6 guys at 168 have raised their profile and even the losers are probably going to end up richer as a result of it.


Have they raised their profile though? Exactly how many more people know who Andre Dirrell is? Kessler? Froch? Are they going to end up richer? I mean, Abraham may have been able to make a bigger payday against a Pavlik, Paul Williams or Sergio Martinez if he would have stayed put at 160. I think it's tough to say exactly how much their profile has been raised or how much richer they may be. Just because you pin the word "tournament" next to a fight, that doesn't mean more casual fans are going to tune in.
thehype
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ May 14 2010, 04:33 PM) *
There SHOULD be no need for a tournament. But we all know just make the damn fights aint how it goes, more's the pity. As of the way boxing is right now, I tip my hat to showtime and the 168 lb'ers to commiting to a couple of years of quality fights against the top opposition and would be happy to see HBO follow suit. Maybe they can look at the super six as a blueprint but try to improve on it somehow. Make it more inclusive, as in the door not being closed to the rest of the division for 2 whole years while the top 6 scrap it out. Not sure how it could work, but hey, thats what those cunts get paid for.


I disagree. I mean, I think EVENTUALLY some of these fights that we've seen probably would have happened by now. Hell, who knows how many fights we may have missed out on because of those guys being locked in for so long. I mean, I know Winky Wright would LOVE to fight anyone right now. LOL. Not to mention, I hear Chad Dawson can still make 168.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from these guys agreeing to all of those fights...they deserve props for that...but this tournament idea...it's whack. Without Bute in it, the winner will STILL be disputed. On top of that, I already think there's been a couple of fights that deserved an immediate rematch to clear up some questions, but unfortunately, due to the tournament format, we won't be getting those rematches any time soon. Plus the whole deal with Taylor being replaced after his first fight...whack, whack and whack!

Again, I'm not knocking the fighters...just the tournament...but I do believe that EVENTUALLY, a lot of these fights would have gotten made anyway because, after all, who else do they have to fight but each other if they plan on making any money?

dntknw.gif
Snoop
Them being tied down to fights for two years is definitely a downside. It also either limits the ability for new faces to emerge or if they do, invalidates the point of the tournament since no one will be able to fight outside of the 6 contenders. I think the IDEA of a tournament is a generally good, but I think this one in particular is structured poorly.
thehype
QUOTE (D-MARV @ May 14 2010, 05:52 PM) *
I WISH it would be easy to just make the damn fight BUT for some odd reason it just doesn't work out that way. I think the "Super 5+1" as been a success over on Showtime and just thought that HBO would follow up. 140 is loaded and I would love to see all of the different match ups.


Has it been a success though? I don't know. It looked pretty damn empty at Joe Louis Arena when Dirrell and Abraham squared off. I don't know how much money it's costing Showtime to produce all of these events and the documentaries and whatnot, but I sure hope they're making that money back.

Truth be told, I don't know if the "Super 5+1" is such a hot idea for any of these fighters. For the winner...sure...maybe...but let's say Andre Dirrell would have lost to Abraham. That would have been 2 back-to-back losses for a young guy who's just now coming into his own. That's the kind of shit that can derail a career. Fortunately, it worked out okay for Dirrell...for now....but when you lose a fight, it's not necessarily a good idea to jump right back in with a top fighter if there's some shit you need to work on. Sometimes, you gotta slide a tune-up in there, but for these guys, that's not an option.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about the best fighting the best too, but depending on how a fight turns out, it may not be a great move for the longevity and the marketability of your career if you take 2 back-to-back losses. If Allan Green loses both of these fights....forget about it....he'll be lucky to be back on ESPN. You gotta remember, boxing is a job for these guys, so they have to be very smart about the moves that they make. THAT'S the "odd reason" why some fights don't get made right away...boxing is just as much a "business" as it is a "sport"...while the "Super 5+1" may be enjoyable from a fans point of view, if it was my fighter, depending on who it was, I'd probably pass on it. It's kind of on par with The Contender, in my opinion. Yeah, it has it's positives, but it has a whole hell of a lot of negatives too.

140-pound division doesn't need a tournament...those fights will happen eventually. Boxing fans have to be a little more patient...we always want these guys to fight each other right away instead of letting the hype build up. I think that's my biggest problem with the "Super 5+1"...I'm just not pumped about ANY of these fights. There's just no build-up for any of them. I'm more pumped to see Khan vs. Malignaggi than I am to see Abraham vs. Froch...but hey...that's just me.

dntknw.gif
thehype
QUOTE (Snoop @ May 15 2010, 01:26 AM) *
I think the IDEA of a tournament is a generally good, but I think this one in particular is structured poorly.


Maybe that's the problem for me...the structure of the "tournament"...you know, honestly, instead of these promoters and networks working together to bring me a "tournament" that's going to crown a winner who will still be considered second best, I'd rather they work together to give me better PPV undercards....hell, just better cards in general.

laugh.gif

On a side note, maybe Golden Boy Promotions can do their own 140-pound tournament featuring Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan, Victor Ortiz, Marcos Maidana, Juan Manuel Marquez, Joan Guzman, Nate Campbell or Juan Diaz.

Fuckin Golden Boy Promotions IS the jr. welterweight division!

laugh.gif

I don't think we'll be seeing a 140-pound tournament any time soon.
EpTXCHAMP
QUOTE (thehype @ May 14 2010, 11:42 PM) *
140-pound division doesn't need a tournament...those fights will happen eventually. Boxing fans have to be a little more patient...we always want these guys to fight each other right away instead of letting the hype build up. I think that's my biggest problem with the "Super 5+1"...I'm just not pumped about ANY of these fights. There's just no build-up for any of them. I'm more pumped to see Khan vs. Malignaggi than I am to see Abraham vs. Froch...but hey...that's just me.

dntknw.gif


Hype is there some strings being pulled by GBP behind the curtain. I mean Nate gets signed to be served to Ortiz.. Then khan signs with them...then Maidana pulls out with bradley due to "back" problems seeming to set up a in house khan vs Maidana...hoping bradley and devon beat up on each other since their not with GBP... I guess all these moves at 140 have just been fishy almost as if GBP is setting up a tourney @ 140 that will favor their company with out officially saying it
salvador
QUOTE (thehype @ May 15 2010, 12:11 AM) *
Have they raised their profile though? Exactly how many more people know who Andre Dirrell is? Kessler? Froch? Are they going to end up richer? I mean, Abraham may have been able to make a bigger payday against a Pavlik, Paul Williams or Sergio Martinez if he would have stayed put at 160. I think it's tough to say exactly how much their profile has been raised or how much richer they may be. Just because you pin the word "tournament" next to a fight, that doesn't mean more casual fans are going to tune in.


Dirrell, Kessler and Froch are all getting to fight 3 times as headliners on Showtime and the network is pushing the events bigtime and ESPN and HBO talk about the tourney semi-frequently. For those guys the tourney was a blessing. I'm not sure that any one of those guys would have had three major network fights in their careers except maybe as opponents. If nothing else, they were given the opportunity to make names for themselves. And it's not like there was any demand from the public to see ANY of these guys, particularly Dirrell, Kessler or Froch.

And for everyone else too. With the exception of JT, none of those guys were really names beforehand. Obviously the tourney isn't making anyone of these guys a superstar (other than Ward who might emerge from this on the cusp and then take out Pavlik when it's over to seal the deal), but it is giving them exposure and credibility.

Mostly, it's creating some interesting stylistic matchups in a division that's never really gotten any attention other than from Calzaghe. I think Froch, Abraham, and Ward will all come out of this in good shape at this point win or lose because they are all credible/interesting opponents for a Bute, Pavlik or Dawson.
EpTXCHAMP
QUOTE (EpTXCHAMP @ May 16 2010, 02:49 PM) *
Hype is there some strings being pulled by GBP behind the curtain. I mean Nate gets signed to be served to Ortiz.. Then khan signs with them...then Maidana pulls out with bradley due to "back" problems seeming to set up a in house khan vs Maidana I mean people were saying GBP paid berto some side money to open up Shane for Floyd... I think they are hoping bradley and devon beat up on each other since their not with GBP... I guess all these moves at 140 have just been fishy almost as if GBP is setting up a tourney @ 140 that will favor their company with out officially saying it

Fitz
QUOTE (salvador @ May 17 2010, 06:49 AM) *
Dirrell, Kessler and Froch are all getting to fight 3 times as headliners on Showtime and the network is pushing the events bigtime and ESPN and HBO talk about the tourney semi-frequently. For those guys the tourney was a blessing. I'm not sure that any one of those guys would have had three major network fights in their careers except maybe as opponents. If nothing else, they were given the opportunity to make names for themselves. And it's not like there was any demand from the public to see ANY of these guys, particularly Dirrell, Kessler or Froch.

And for everyone else too. With the exception of JT, none of those guys were really names beforehand. Obviously the tourney isn't making anyone of these guys a superstar (other than Ward who might emerge from this on the cusp and then take out Pavlik when it's over to seal the deal), but it is giving them exposure and credibility.

Mostly, it's creating some interesting stylistic matchups in a division that's never really gotten any attention other than from Calzaghe. I think Froch, Abraham, and Ward will all come out of this in good shape at this point win or lose because they are all credible/interesting opponents for a Bute, Pavlik or Dawson.


Right on point sal, I'm with you.
Fitz
QUOTE (ViperSniper @ May 17 2010, 03:53 PM) *
Of course they have raised their profile! It definitely hasn't hurt them, as it's created more interest & attention from the boxing world. I think pinning the word "tournament" next to a fight would make a casual fan more curious if coming across it on TV. It's up to the boxing fans weather they can look past the word "tournament" or just see it as the best fighting the best or not, which shouldn't really matter anyways as either is goes hand in hand.



Like which fights are we exactly missing out on at 168?? Winky Wright??? Chad Dawson?? Your bringing up only "name" fighters with one, being irrelevant, on the decline & the other that has his own belts to defend with NONE being 168 fighters anyways! The only part that is whack about the S6 was the whole JT thing to be honest. With a division so deep it's kind of hard to include everyone in the S6, that's why Bute, Miranda, Green (orignally), Andrade ect. were unlucky. In terms of the winner still being disputed after wards..Bute will have A LOT of proving to do once the S6 is over as even those who don't win it may be regarded higher based on the S6 alone. The Super Middleweight division is over flowing..once S6 is over the 168 division still has miles of great match-ups ahead not to mention all the needed rematches that can be made after wards.




You don't really look at a crowd to determine how successful fighters are, as it would mean fights like Castillo-Corrales or Marquez-Vasquez would have been failures and would have not been very relevant to the sport. Wasn't the mega-fight the start of this month struggling to sell tickets?? Once again, I think the S6 has been very successful in boxing & for the boxers in it.

I agree with what your saying about suffering back-to-back losses, specially coming up in the ranks can be hurtful but don't think it's be all end all like many perceive losses. But that is why I respect all the undefeated fighters entering this tournament as protecting their '0' was not a big enough concern & are fighting the best instead of saying it.

The Contender never seem to hurt any of the fighters profiles involved in it and in fact got them big fights after wards. Only difference is the S6 is fought at a much higher level, is not a reality TV show & actually show entire fights with no editing, dramatic music & sound effects...no bullshit. There will be more than enough exposure & fights for all fighters..even when the S6 is all said & done. Not to mention all the rematches that can also be made from the Tournament. 168 really is looking better than ever which is good to see Joe fucked off when he did.

In today's boxing we can't always assume the fights will happen, because a lot of times they don't because fighters fighters want to protect their records, leave divisions, go for money fights, ect. Just look at the way 2 boxing's 'best' have been going about things in recent memories. At least with S6 we know we will get these fights regardless.



I can understand some not agreeing with the structure as some may prefer an 8 man tourney or an elimination structure, but at least we are getting the best fighting the best back-to-back, without a tourney who knows how many good fights we really would have gotten. Yet you have suggested a GBP Tournament involving name fighters like Hatton, Marquez, Guzman & Campbell...who aren't even the best in that division..with some being closed to finished and some never even campaigning at 140?

I'm just curious, for someone who says you don't have a problem with the best fighting the best or the tournament, you sure have a very strong negative opinions on the whole matter. So what is it about the S6 (or any tournament) that you feel is lacking or not good for boxing?? It sure as hell is better than what other divisions have on with no contracts & certainty..which is a lot of talking & ducking with no real fights.



+1 clapping.gif


Good post, though I only read the first half as it was long. Pretty much agree with yourself and salvador, though you know where we both stood defending this tournament.
Also fights we may have missed out on? Wright? Yeah, I'm devastated we missed that one, lol. Like you said, Dawson is a champion at 175, I am almost 90% sure that Dawson was NEVER going to come down to 168, hell he would have put his hand up if he was interested, as this tournament is surely doing better than any publicity Dawson is getting, haha.

There is nothing to complain about the tournament, most of the best is fighting the best and anybody would be ridiculous if they criticised this under normal circumstances. They are not mega stars but the tournament has definitely raised there stocks. Not saying that they are now going to be mega stars, but more people are aware and it definitely has not hurt them.

This tournament is good for the sport, we are getting good fights, the only problem with it is that Bute isn't in it.
STEVENSKI
Can anyone tell me what Judah has done to even be in the running for any type of meaningful fight at 140? What has he achieved at 140 in the last 7 years? Besides win a controvertial split decision against Corley? What has he even achieved in the last 2 years to get any type of meaningful fight at any weight class?
salvador
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ May 17 2010, 03:58 AM) *
Can anyone tell me what Judah has done to even be in the running for any type of meaningful fight at 140? What has he achieved at 140 in the last 7 years? Besides win a controvertial split decision against Corley? What has he even achieved in the last 2 years to get any type of meaningful fight at any weight class?


He could play the JT role at 140.
Snoop
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ May 17 2010, 08:58 AM) *
Can anyone tell me what Judah has done to even be in the running for any type of meaningful fight at 140? What has he achieved at 140 in the last 7 years? Besides win a controvertial split decision against Corley? What has he even achieved in the last 2 years to get any type of meaningful fight at any weight class?

He was on the receiving end of one of the funniest KO's in the history of the sport. Wait you said 7 years right? Hmmm....
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (ViperSniper @ May 17 2010, 12:31 PM) *
LOL!

Zab will always bring excitement to the ring as long as continues stepping through the ropes. If only he had a better state of mind, he could have been one of the all time greats!


LOL. As Snoop mentioned he is a highlight reel kind of guy. In 50 years they will still show his KO loss to Tszyu.
salvador
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ May 17 2010, 07:42 AM) *
LOL. As Snoop mentioned he is a highlight reel kind of guy. In 50 years they will still show his KO loss to Tszyu.


That would be a really cool grave site: He could have an eternal holograph of the ko floating above his headstone running over and over for all of time. "Zab Judah was here!"
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