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blackbelt2003
A few guys on facebook are commenting on Pac-PBF being done for 13 Nov for $180 million.


Can't see it being reported anywhere, is this right?




Black
JD
I am going to go with "no"
Snoop
$180 Million? Nah doubt it. Plus the source is Facebook.
Maxy
Hopefully yes.....

But no, I think not.
blackbelt2003
QUOTE (JD @ May 14 2010, 05:14 PM) *
I am going to go with "no"



That was my first thought, but it must be popping up somewhere as about three guys have posted it on their status.




Black
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (blackbelt2003 @ May 14 2010, 11:25 AM) *
That was my first thought, but it must be popping up somewhere as about three guys have posted it on their status.




Black


who are the guys on face book?
Snoop
QUOTE (blackbelt2003 @ May 14 2010, 04:25 PM) *
That was my first thought, but it must be popping up somewhere as about three guys have posted it on their status.




Black

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/267112
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Snoop @ May 14 2010, 11:34 AM) *


hey man this facebook toon is funny as hell.. lol...
PR316
No way. I'm sure both sides will eventually get down to it but there's no way its signed yet.
thehype
rolleyes_anim.gif
Maxy
If they end up not fighting lets just call an end to both of their poxy fucking era's because if they don't fight each other then their legacies count for jack in my book.

I follow the sport, have done for over 30 years...the best fight the best right? If some crappy negociations end up preventing me from seeing this fight then basically my love for the sport dies just a little bit more..
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE (Maxy @ May 14 2010, 04:08 PM) *
If they end up not fighting lets just call an end to both of their poxy fucking era's because if they don't fight each other then their legacies count for jack in my book.

I follow the sport, have done for over 30 years...the best fight the best right? If some crappy negociations end up preventing me from seeing this fight then basically my love for the sport dies just a little bit more..



Preach!



This fight better happen or I'll be pissed off with boxing. Too many fights are being missed or are being made when the fighters are passed their primes.


Whoever is at fault for not getting this fight underway needs to be bummed by Stevenski.
Romulus9
I'd be very happy if the fight was signed but we all know how this goes. It gets close, it goes away.

Pacquiao-Mayweather is this decade's Bowe-Lewis.
D-MARV
The fight has a long way to go before getting made. I think you're friends are hearing the November date that Arum has reserved for Pacquiao. I'm thinking that we will see PAcquiao-Margarito in November and then we may see Mayweather-Pacquiao some time next year.
Hops
And Floyd's fighting who to get the spotlight from Pacquao again?
thehype
QUOTE (Hops @ May 14 2010, 08:08 PM) *
And Floyd's fighting who to get the spotlight from Pacquao again?


Probably Sergio Martinez.

And Pacquiao fought who to get the spotlight from Floyd when he "retired"?

dntknw.gif
Jack 1000
QUOTE (thehype @ May 14 2010, 08:29 PM) *
Probably Sergio Martinez.

And Pacquiao fought who to get the spotlight from Floyd when he "retired"?

dntknw.gif


If Floyd fights Sergio Martinez so much for me saying that he won't take risks! I mean this is the former Jr. Middleweight top guy and current world Middleweight champion! Just on the weight alone and the punch output he brings, and the pressure he brings, he may shock the world in beating Mayweather! Many people thought he beat Williams and I still say that The Punisher is about as stylistically bad for Floyd as Norton was to Ali. Now we have Martinez whom I believe beat beat Williams and Pavlik.

Floyd better stick to little Manny and the colossel bucks if he wants to stay undefeated.

Jack
thehype
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ May 14 2010, 09:55 PM) *
If Floyd fights Sergio Martinez so much for me saying that he won't take risks! I mean this is the former Jr. Middleweight top guy and current world Middleweight champion! Just on the weight alone and the punch output he brings, and the pressure he brings, he may shock the world in beating Mayweather! Many people thought he beat Williams and I still say that The Punisher is about as stylistically bad for Floyd as Norton was to Ali. Now we have Martinez whom I believe beat beat Williams and Pavlik.

Floyd better stick to little Manny and the colossel bucks if he wants to stay undefeated.

Jack


laugh.gif

Paul Williams is SO hittable, it's not even funny...he ain't coming anywhere close to EVER beating Floyd Mayweather...at least not until he gets a new trainer. I mean, he got outboxed by Carlos Quintana for crying out loud...Sergio Martinez was boxing his ears off too.

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And I STILL don't get this belief that Floyd doesn't take risks....I mean, was De La Hoya at 154 not a risk for a guy that MANY didn't believe even belonged at 147? Was Zab Judah not a risk? Was the undefeated Ricky Hatton not a risk? Come on now Jack...you're smarter than that. I mean, if those weren't risks, then what the heck do you call Manny Pacquiao fighting Oscar De La Hoya at a weight he hadn't seen in 12 or so years? What do you call Manny Pacquiao fighting Cotto at 145? What do you call Manny Pacquiao fighting Clottey, who was coming off a loss? What do you call Manny Pacquiao fighting Ricky Hatton post-Mayweather? What do you call Manny Pacquiao fighting David Diaz?

laugh.gif

I'm not getting your logic. I mean, if Floyd's not taking risks, then neither is Manny Pacquiao, whose trainer flat out REFUSED to fight Shane Mosley at 142 pounds because he was still too much of a risk and they preferred to go after the money fight. Hell, in fact, Roach didn't even want him to fight feather-fisted Yuri Foreman for an unprecedented 8th world title, opting instead to fight Clottey coming off of that loss.

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Snoop
Three years ago I used to think PWill was the only one that could beat Mayweather. Now Floyd boxes his ears off.
Hops
QUOTE (thehype @ May 15 2010, 01:29 AM) *
And Pacquiao fought who to get the spotlight from Floyd when he "retired"?


Floyd retired.

QUOTE (thehype @ May 15 2010, 01:29 AM) *
Probably Sergio Martinez.


Yes. This will take the spotlight off again from Pacquiao.
Hops
QUOTE (Snoop @ May 15 2010, 03:04 AM) *
Three years ago I used to think PWill was the only one that could beat Mayweather. Now Floyd boxes his ears off.


Well, if no one can beat Floyd, then I guess there's no reason to watch him fight anymore unless he will always dish out some beatdowns on his opponents.
Hops
QUOTE (Snoop @ May 15 2010, 03:04 AM) *
Three years ago I used to think PWill was the only one that could beat Mayweather. Now Floyd boxes his ears off.


Well, if no one can beat Floyd, then I guess there's no reason to watch him fight anymore unless he will always dish out some beatdowns on his opponents.
Snoop
QUOTE (Hops @ May 15 2010, 07:39 AM) *
Well, if no one can beat Floyd, then I guess there's no reason to watch him fight anymore unless he will always dish out some beatdowns on his opponents.

Off speculation, I can't see anyone from 147-154 beating Floyd; doesn't mean I don't want to see it though.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (thehype @ May 14 2010, 10:11 PM) *
laugh.gif

Paul Williams is SO hittable, it's not even funny...he ain't coming anywhere close to EVER beating Floyd Mayweather...at least not until he gets a new trainer. I mean, he got outboxed by Carlos Quintana for crying out loud...Sergio Martinez was boxing his ears off too.


Been saying it forever now. Way too many people believed PW would be too much for Floyd, I never thought PW would have a chance with him. Floyd would have and still will pick him apart with ease.
Warlord
QUOTE (blackbelt2003 @ May 14 2010, 12:12 PM) *
A few guys on facebook are commenting on Pac-PBF being done for 13 Nov for $180 million.


Clues that shit ain't true?

1.) Facebook
2.) $180 million

Is that possible? $90 million to each fighter? Are you serious? You could do anything you wanted to me with a damn needle (short of putting some AIDS in it) for $90 million. No way either fighter turns down that much money.

I mean, needles, brass knucks, hands dipped in honey and broken glass ala Kickboxer, whatever, I'm down for it. And if that brown jungle asian turns that shit down, he's more than corrupt. He's defective.
D-MARV
When did Paul Williams and Floyd Mayweather Fight?



People are talking like the fight has been decided already... NEWS FLASH, PWill is a live dog against Floyd.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Warlord @ May 15 2010, 06:28 AM) *
Clues that shit ain't true?

1.) Facebook
2.) $180 million

Is that possible? $90 million to each fighter? Are you serious? You could do anything you wanted to me with a damn needle (short of putting some AIDS in it) for $90 million. No way either fighter turns down that much money.

I mean, needles, brass knucks, hands dipped in honey and broken glass ala Kickboxer, whatever, I'm down for it. And if that brown jungle asian turns that shit down, he's more than corrupt. He's defective.


On one hand you dismiss the talk as nonsense (which it is) but then say if Pac doesn't take the deal he must be corrupt. But dude you just said in your own words that the whole offer is bogus!!

Well if it's bogus then why would Pac sign for it??
D-MARV
LMFAO @ "Brown Jungle Asian"
Snoop
QUOTE (D-MARV @ May 15 2010, 12:55 PM) *
LMFAO @ "Brown Jungle Asian"

Normally I'd be offended, but since he's talking about Pacquiao... dntknw.gif
thehype
QUOTE (Hops @ May 15 2010, 02:36 AM) *
Floyd retired.


And? You still haven't answered the question. Who did Pacquiao beat?

Wait...wait...wait....let me REALLY break this down from my point of view so you can understand what I'm trying to say here. Let's say Floyd retired IMMEDIATELY after he beat the crap out of Ricky Hatton, which was on December 7, 2007. From that date going forward, Manny Pacquiao got the following victories on the following dates:

03/15/2008 - Juan Manuel Marquez - SD
06/28/2008 - David Diaz - TKO9
12/06/2008 - Oscar De La Hoya - TKO8
05/02/2009 - Ricky Hatton - KO2

Okay, so 2 of those guys, Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton, Floyd Mayweather had already beaten roughly 18 months prior. Let me repeat that...FLOYD MAYWEATHER BEAT OSCAR DE LA HOYA AND RICKY HATTON 18 MONTHS BEFORE MANNY PACQUIAO BEAT THEM. Okay...moving on...

So on May 2, 2009...the same day that Manny Pacquiao was getting ready to wax Ricky Hatton, Floyd Mayweather announces his return. WOOOOOO! Great! Perfect! So Pacquiao beats Hatton and then Floyd goes on to dominate Juan Manuel Marquez on September 19, 2009, roughly 18 months after Manny Pacquiao barely gets a split decision against him. Let me repeat that...FLOYD MAYWEATHER BEAT JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ 18 MONTHS AFTER MANNY PACQUIAO STRUGGLED AGAINST HIM. Okay...got that? Moving on...

So, the REAL question is if you are SO IMPRESSED with what Manny Pacquiao did to Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton just 18 months after Floyd Mayweather had already beaten them, then shouldn't you be at least as equally impressed with Floyd Mayweather completely DOMINATING Juan Manuel Marquez just 18 months after Manny Pacquiao struggled with him? Hell, some people even think Manny Pacquiao LOST to Marquez.

And I know what you're going to say next..."but Marquez was smaller than Floyd"...blah, blah, blah. Okay...I'll even give you that one...but if Marquez was SO MUCH SMALLER than Floyd Mayweather on September 19, 2009, do you mean to tell me that Manny Pacquiao got THAT MUCH BIGGER in 18 months? I don't know...something sounds a little fishy there. But moving on...

So Manny's next two fights after Ricky Hatton were Miguel Cotto, who he waxed, and Joshua Clottey, who was coming off of his own loss to Cotto. Meanwhile, Floyd goes on to DOMINATE the REAL man at welterweight, Shane Mosley, who EVERYBODY considered to be a LIVE DOG.

nea.gif

I'm sorry, but retirement or no retirement, Floyd Mayweather is #1, Numero Uno, Top Dog! Fighting dehydrated guys, mentally shot guys, Mayweather-leftover guys, handpicked-and-carefully-matched-by-his-trainer guys...that's just not going to cut it for me. I know some of the knockouts have a lot of people gassed up on Pacquiao, but quite frankly, the ease at which Floyd Mayweather thoroughly dominated Shane Mosley AND Juan Manuel Marquez, two elite fighters in their own right, who A LOT OF PEOPLE had ranked in their Top 10, is more impressive to me than what Pacquiao has done to Cotto and Clottey. WHILE Floyd was retired, all Pacquiao did was fight Floyd's leftovers and stuggle with Marquez. And keep in mind, he was only "retired" for like 18 months....I wouldn't even call that a "retirement"....I mean, Hopkins and Shane Mosley sat idle for just as long, but nobody thought their skills diminished. Floyd was #1 when he retired. Pacquiao may have worked his way into the slot by default, but once Floyd came back, he's trumped Paquiao, in my opinion, by dominating a guy he struggled with and then dominating THE MAN at welterweight!

QUOTE (Hops @ May 15 2010, 02:36 AM) *
Yes. This will take the spotlight off again from Pacquiao.


The question is what's Pacquiao going to do to put the spotlight back on him? Fight Margarito, a guy who caught a BEATDOWN from Shane Mosley, who himself just got DOMINATED by Mayweather, isn't going to cut it.
thehype
QUOTE (D-MARV @ May 15 2010, 08:46 AM) *
NEWS FLASH, PWill is a live dog against Floyd.


NEWS FLASH, Shane Mosley was a live dog against Floyd too.

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Don't get me wrong, I'll watch the fight, but I'm just sayin...PWill ain't beating Floyd...not with all the mistakes he still makes. That right hand that Cintron was missing with, Floyd will land over and over and over again...and then he'll land the left hook.

laugh.gif
Romulus9
QUOTE (thehype @ May 15 2010, 12:43 PM) *
NEWS FLASH, Shane Mosley was a live dog against Floyd too.

laugh.gif

Don't get me wrong, I'll watch the fight, but I'm just sayin...PWill ain't beating Floyd...not with all the mistakes he still makes. That right hand that Cintron was missing with, Floyd will land over and over and over again...and then he'll land the left hook.

laugh.gif




So many problems could be solved for Williams if he'd learn how to fight big. He fights like he's at best, on equal ground with guys that he TOWERS over.

That, plus looping so many shots for absolutely no reason, leaves him wide open to get clocked with shots that shouldn't come close to hitting him. For some reason, his team believes that a high work rate is going to cover it up.

FALSE!
Snoop
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ May 15 2010, 07:29 PM) *
So many problems could be solved for Williams if he'd learn how to fight big. He fights like he's at best, on equal ground with guys that he TOWERS over.

That, plus looping so many shots for absolutely no reason, leaves him wide open to get clocked with shots that shouldn't come close to hitting him. For some reason, his team believes that a high work rate is going to cover it up.

FALSE!

Yup. All that range and height and he doesn't use it. Every time jabs, his head is WIDE OPEN for a clean counter.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Ben, it's not who Manny beat when he retired, but how he beat them. Pacquiao-De La Hoya wasn't even considered a serious fight by most. It was just a gimmick to get a name on De La Hoya's resume. Pacquiao went out there and dominated him piller to post for 8 rounds. Nobody saw that coming. Sure, De La Hoya came in weight drained, but that's his problem not Manny's. Mayweather got a split decision over Oscar, and Oscar was competitive in that fight. A few even felt it should have been a draw. Which one looks better to the eye....Yea it's Manny's one-sided beatdown in a fight where he was a big underdog.

Also, Manny did struggle against Marquez, but it was at his normal weight of 130. In 2006 Juan Manuel Marquez was fighting as a featheweight. He basically went from weighing between 130-135 to 142 and having to fight a natural welterweight. Marquez at 130 is way different than Marquez at 142 fighting a natural welterweight.

Next, the Hatton fight also passes the eye test. Mayweather went 9 rounds with Hatton and even lost a couple rounds. That was at 147 pounds too, which is not Hatton's natural weight. Hatton was almost knocked out by Louie Collazo at 147, and really didn't look like the same fighter. 140 was really his best weight class, and Manny took him on at that weight. He dominated Hatton in his weight class, and personally I think that victory is a lot more impressive than Floyd's.

Manny earned the p4p status when Floyd retired. He moved up in weight and won titles at those weight classes. I give Floyd a lot of credit, he's a great boxer. However, if you really look at the body of work Pacquiao should be # 1 p4p. Mayweather retired, and relinquished that status. He's come back and beaten Marquez at 147, when really Marquez's best weight class was 130. Yes, the Mosley victory was extremely impressive, but to me was expected. You don't think Mayweather's handpicking opponents? Mosley was made for him, as was a small Marquez, and 147 lb. Ricky Hatton. Manny has done a lot more recently to hold onto that slot. One fight should not put a person back at # 1 p4p, when that fighter decided to retire and relinquish that crown. Of course there's one way for all this chatter to go away.....if they just make the damn fight.
alaganza
i refuse to believe this fight is happening until both guys are in the ring, with their gear on, and the bell sounds.
streetlion1
QUOTE (thehype @ May 15 2010, 11:40 AM) *
And? You still haven't answered the question. Who did Pacquiao beat?

Wait...wait...wait....let me REALLY break this down from my point of view so you can understand what I'm trying to say here. Let's say Floyd retired IMMEDIATELY after he beat the crap out of Ricky Hatton, which was on December 7, 2007. From that date going forward, Manny Pacquiao got the following victories on the following dates:

03/15/2008 - Juan Manuel Marquez - SD
06/28/2008 - David Diaz - TKO9
12/06/2008 - Oscar De La Hoya - TKO8
05/02/2009 - Ricky Hatton - KO2

Okay, so 2 of those guys, Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton, Floyd Mayweather had already beaten roughly 18 months prior. Let me repeat that...FLOYD MAYWEATHER BEAT OSCAR DE LA HOYA AND RICKY HATTON 18 MONTHS BEFORE MANNY PACQUIAO BEAT THEM. Okay...moving on...

So on May 2, 2009...the same day that Manny Pacquiao was getting ready to wax Ricky Hatton, Floyd Mayweather announces his return. WOOOOOO! Great! Perfect! So Pacquiao beats Hatton and then Floyd goes on to dominate Juan Manuel Marquez on September 19, 2009, roughly 18 months after Manny Pacquiao barely gets a split decision against him. Let me repeat that...FLOYD MAYWEATHER BEAT JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ 18 MONTHS AFTER MANNY PACQUIAO STRUGGLED AGAINST HIM. Okay...got that? Moving on...

So, the REAL question is if you are SO IMPRESSED with what Manny Pacquiao did to Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton just 18 months after Floyd Mayweather had already beaten them, then shouldn't you be at least as equally impressed with Floyd Mayweather completely DOMINATING Juan Manuel Marquez just 18 months after Manny Pacquiao struggled with him? Hell, some people even think Manny Pacquiao LOST to Marquez.

And I know what you're going to say next..."but Marquez was smaller than Floyd"...blah, blah, blah. Okay...I'll even give you that one...but if Marquez was SO MUCH SMALLER than Floyd Mayweather on September 19, 2009, do you mean to tell me that Manny Pacquiao got THAT MUCH BIGGER in 18 months? I don't know...something sounds a little fishy there. But moving on...

So Manny's next two fights after Ricky Hatton were Miguel Cotto, who he waxed, and Joshua Clottey, who was coming off of his own loss to Cotto. Meanwhile, Floyd goes on to DOMINATE the REAL man at welterweight, Shane Mosley, who EVERYBODY considered to be a LIVE DOG.

nea.gif

I'm sorry, but retirement or no retirement, Floyd Mayweather is #1, Numero Uno, Top Dog! Fighting dehydrated guys, mentally shot guys, Mayweather-leftover guys, handpicked-and-carefully-matched-by-his-trainer guys...that's just not going to cut it for me. I know some of the knockouts have a lot of people gassed up on Pacquiao, but quite frankly, the ease at which Floyd Mayweather thoroughly dominated Shane Mosley AND Juan Manuel Marquez, two elite fighters in their own right, who A LOT OF PEOPLE had ranked in their Top 10, is more impressive to me than what Pacquiao has done to Cotto and Clottey. WHILE Floyd was retired, all Pacquiao did was fight Floyd's leftovers and stuggle with Marquez. And keep in mind, he was only "retired" for like 18 months....I wouldn't even call that a "retirement"....I mean, Hopkins and Shane Mosley sat idle for just as long, but nobody thought their skills diminished. Floyd was #1 when he retired. Pacquiao may have worked his way into the slot by default, but once Floyd came back, he's trumped Paquiao, in my opinion, by dominating a guy he struggled with and then dominating THE MAN at welterweight!



The question is what's Pacquiao going to do to put the spotlight back on him? Fight Margarito, a guy who caught a BEATDOWN from Shane Mosley, who himself just got DOMINATED by Mayweather, isn't going to cut it.

Agree with everything...right on point. Pacman has been very carefully handled since Marquez was whippin his ass. I think Floyd beats him fairly easy once he adjusts....and to touch on the P-Will debate....Floyd chops up Williams and makes him look foolish I think. I thought Mosley was the only one with a serious chance to beat Floyd...now I dont see anyone beating him.

A fight I have always wanted to see though is Mayweather-Cotto. If Cotto can get past Foreman I would still like to see that fight even though Mayweather would probably chop him up too. Cottos only 2 losses are to cheaters IMO.....I would still like to see Cotto get a shot at him.
D-MARV
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ May 15 2010, 06:14 PM) *
A fight I have always wanted to see though is Mayweather-Cotto. If Cotto can get past Foreman I would still like to see that fight even though Mayweather would probably chop him up too. Cottos only 2 losses are to cheaters IMO.....I would still like to see Cotto get a shot at him.

If Cotto beats Foreman then he'll fight Pacman in a rematch. Sad but true!
thehype
QUOTE (KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ May 15 2010, 04:05 PM) *
Ben, it's not who Manny beat when he retired, but how he beat them. Pacquiao-De La Hoya wasn't even considered a serious fight by most. It was just a gimmick to get a name on De La Hoya's resume. Pacquiao went out there and dominated him piller to post for 8 rounds. Nobody saw that coming. Sure, De La Hoya came in weight drained, but that's his problem not Manny's. Mayweather got a split decision over Oscar, and Oscar was competitive in that fight. A few even felt it should have been a draw. Which one looks better to the eye....Yea it's Manny's one-sided beatdown in a fight where he was a big underdog.


Kyle, if the manner in which a fighter beats an opponent is THAT important, then Bernard Hopkins and Winky Wright would have NEVER been on anyone's P4P list. Look, I'm not saying that Manny Pacquiao doesn't deserve credit for what he's accomplished, because he certainly does, but the fact remains, why should he get MORE credit for beating two guys that Mayweather had already defeated 2 years prior? I mean, for all we know, the damage was already done once Mayweather fought them. Case in point, De La Hoya looked like CRAP against Steve Forbes, another small guy, when he fought him right after the Mayweather fight...and on top of that, Hatton looked like CRAP against Juan Lazcano, another small guy, when he fought him right after the Mayweather fight. Again, that's not taking anything away from what Manny Pacquiao did to them, but to say he deserves to be #1 P4P based on the fact that he beat two guys more convincingly 2 years after Floyd fought them...well...I think that logic is flawed. I mean, that's like saying Kelly Pavlik should have been ranked higher than Bernard Hopkins on the P4P list because he beat Jermain Taylor more convincingly. Hell, Bernard didn't even "beat" Taylor, but I think most people would probably agree that those two fights with Bernard Hopkins essentially damaged Taylor as a fighter.

Not to mention, Oscar wasn't competitive against Floyd...I'm not even trying to hear that bullshit. I mean, I guess if you can call winning 4 rounds being competitive, then okay...I'll give you that...but a split decision? Get the fuck outta here with that. The ONLY reason why it was a split decision is because judge Tom Kaczmarek was too busy staring at De La Hoya's nuts to realize that his boy was getting tagged with right hands all night. Oscar was NEVER in that fight. In fact, I've never seen Oscar De La Hoya look more like an amatuer than I did in that fight. But that's a whole different argument for a totally different thread. The point is, I don't think I would use the two performances against Oscar De La Hoya as a barometer for who should be ranked higher when you consider that Floyd fought him at 154 with 10 oz. gloves and Manny fought him at 147 with 8 oz. gloves. Shit, I'm sure if Floyd could have got Oscar to suck down to 147, he would have looked spectacular too. So, in my opinion, what looks better to the eye is Floyd moving up to 154, Oscar's natural weight, and beating him there. Asking Oscar to suck down to 147 was a bitch move, in my opinion, by Freddie Roach, who knew firsthand after working with Oscar for the Mayweather fight that he'd probably struggle to get down to the weight. Hell, Roach even told everyone who would listen before the fight, "Oscar can't pull the trigger. If Manny doesn't knock him out, he doesn't have to pay me."

QUOTE (KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ May 15 2010, 04:05 PM) *
Also, Manny did struggle against Marquez, but it was at his normal weight of 130. In 2006 Juan Manuel Marquez was fighting as a featheweight. He basically went from weighing between 130-135 to 142 and having to fight a natural welterweight. Marquez at 130 is way different than Marquez at 142 fighting a natural welterweight.


At his normal weight of 130? Okay...I'll give you that...but ironically, on the night of the fight, Manny Pacquiao weighed 145 pounds...welterweight! When he fought Barrera (at 130), the night of the fight, he weighed 144 pounds...welterweight! When he fought Morales (at 130), the night of the fight, he weighed 144 pounds...welterweight! When he fought David Diaz (at 135), the night of the fight, he weighed 147 pounds...welterweight! When he fought De La Hoya, the night of the fight, he weighed 148 pounds...welterweight! Floyd doesn't blow up in weight like that...when Floyd fought Corrales at 130, the night of the fight, he weighed 136 pounds. When he fought Castillo at 135, the night of the fight, he weighed 138 pounds. When he fought Zab Judah at welterweight, the night of the fight, he weighed 146 pounds. When he fought Baldomir, the night of the fight, he weighed 149 pounds! When he fought De La Hoya at 154, the night of the fight, Floyd weighed 150 pounds...just 2 pounds more than Manny weighed when he fought De La Hoya (and yet, one division higher).

The point is, Floyd Mayweather is not a fighter that sucks down to make weight. He fights at the weight he walks around at. Manny Pacquiao, on the other hand, has been sucking down for quite some time now. Marquez fighting Pacquiao at 130 is the same Marquez fighting Mayweather at 147...both times, he was fighting natural welterweights. When Pacquiao stepped into the ring to fight Juan Manuel Marquez in March of 2008, he had damn near the exact same weight advantage that Floyd Mayweather had when he fought Marquez in September of 2009. If anything, you might be able to argue that Pacquiao's performance may have been affected by his own struggle to make weight, but shit, if that's true, how can you not think that De La Hoya's performance and/or Cotto's performance wasn't affected by their own struggle to make weight?

QUOTE (KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ May 15 2010, 04:05 PM) *
Next, the Hatton fight also passes the eye test. Mayweather went 9 rounds with Hatton and even lost a couple rounds. That was at 147 pounds too, which is not Hatton's natural weight. Hatton was almost knocked out by Louie Collazo at 147, and really didn't look like the same fighter. 140 was really his best weight class, and Manny took him on at that weight. He dominated Hatton in his weight class, and personally I think that victory is a lot more impressive than Floyd's.


Boxing math at it's finest. LOL. So Pacquiao beat him faster, therefore he deserves more credit for the performance? Please! Honestly, getting knocked out early is probably a lot better than taking 12 rounds of right hands to the dome. Sure, Pacquiao "dominated" Hatton, but would he have been able to dominate him like that had Hatton not been knocked the fuck out 2 years prior by Floyd? Hell, even Juan Lazcano had Hatton on queer street after the Mayweather fight. But hey, I don't want to take anything away from Pacquiao, because it was a great performance, but I'm just saying, I don't necessarily think he deserves MORE credit for a performance that came 2 years after Floyd's performance. He definitely deserves credit, but to say that he should be ranked higher than Floyd because he beat him faster, I think that's a bit far-fetched. Again, Pavlik's wins over Taylor were FAR more impressive than Bernard's losses to him, but how many people put Pavlik above Hopkins on their P4P list?

dntknw.gif

QUOTE (KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ May 15 2010, 04:05 PM) *
Manny earned the p4p status when Floyd retired. He moved up in weight and won titles at those weight classes. I give Floyd a lot of credit, he's a great boxer. However, if you really look at the body of work Pacquiao should be # 1 p4p. Mayweather retired, and relinquished that status. He's come back and beaten Marquez at 147, when really Marquez's best weight class was 130. Yes, the Mosley victory was extremely impressive, but to me was expected. You don't think Mayweather's handpicking opponents? Mosley was made for him, as was a small Marquez, and 147 lb. Ricky Hatton. Manny has done a lot more recently to hold onto that slot. One fight should not put a person back at # 1 p4p, when that fighter decided to retire and relinquish that crown. Of course there's one way for all this chatter to go away.....if they just make the damn fight.


Manny earned the P4P status when Floyd "retired" no doubt...but he earned it by beating guys that Floyd had already beaten. Beating David Diaz at 135 for a lightweight title is laughable. Beating Miguel Cotto at 145 for a welterweight title is a sham. Beating Oscar De La Hoya at 147, a division he hadn't fought at in nearly 8 years...I mean...body of work? Are you truly looking at the body work? LOL. You want to discredit Floyd's win over Marquez because "his best weight class was 130," but at the same time, you want to give Pacquiao all this praise for dominating De La Hoya at 147, even though his best weight class at the time was 154...and Cotto at 145? LOL. Come on man...lay off the Pacquiao Kool-Aid. Floyd "retires" for 18 months and relinquishes the crown...Mosley and Hopkins don't "retire" and can't get a fight for 18 months, but they lose no stock as far as their ranking is concerned? LOL. Since Floyd "retired", the only thing that Manny Pacquiao has done that Floyd hasn't done is beat Diaz at 135, Cotto at 145 and Clottey at 147...that's it...and quite frankly, if you're saying that's "a lot more," well, I'm not impressed. I'll take Floyd's beatdown of Shane Mosley over all 3 of those fights...the Marquez beatdown was just an added bonus. When Floyd "retired" he was the best P4P fighter on the planet and when he returned, guess what, he's still the best P4P fighter on the planet. I have yet to see anything in him which makes me believe he's lost a step since December of 2007. Hell, truth be told, I think he looks a little bit better now than he did before. In December of 2007, nobody thought Manny Pacquiao could beat Floyd Mayweather and I have yet to see anything in Manny Pacquiao which leads me to believe that anything has changed.

Of course, you're right...there is one way for all this chatter to go away...just take the damn tests and we will have a fight!
gbh32001
QUOTE (thehype @ May 16 2010, 10:48 AM) *
Of course, you're right...there is one way for all this chatter to go away...just take the damn tests and we will have a fight!
I can bet my testicle(save one LoL) that even Pacquiao will agree to that random testing Floyd will chicken out. His father who fabricated
the steroid issue already declares that, he doesn't like his son fighting southpaw. If there are risk in there, I think they(Ellerbe&Team Mayweather) will avoid Pacquiao until he retires.

STEVENSKI
In short Hype hates Pacquiao & seems to want to get his freak on with Mayweather.
Warlord
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ May 15 2010, 07:51 AM) *
[/b]

On one hand you dismiss the talk as nonsense (which it is) but then say if Pac doesn't take the deal he must be corrupt. But dude you just said in your own words that the whole offer is bogus!!

Well if it's bogus then why would Pac sign for it??

I'm humbled that you would actually put that much thought into my post. I didn't. laugh.gif I said I thought the offer was bogus. Yes. I do. But I haven't seen anything to either confirm or deny, thus far it is just my opinion. And while my every thought generally tends to be accurate, I was in a humble enough mood on that day to stop short of proclaiming my almighty word holy gospel.

The parting shot about Pac not signing had less to do with the original topic at hand, and more to do with the steroid controversy that has been going on. The $90 million itself held no real significance in that context. Change it to $10 million, an entirely plausible number, and my argument would still be the same. There's something wrong when some sun-burned to hell, chicken-farming, rice-picking peasant from one of the poorest nations in the world decides to turn down millions of dollars for one night of work.

Thanks to everyone who was entertained by my "Brown Jungle Asian" remark. I was pretty proud of myself when I typed it.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Warlord @ May 16 2010, 05:53 AM) *
I'm humbled that you would actually put that much thought into my post. I didn't. laugh.gif I said I thought the offer was bogus. Yes. I do. But I haven't seen anything to either confirm or deny, thus far it is just my opinion. And while my every thought generally tends to be accurate, I was in a humble enough mood on that day to stop short of proclaiming my almighty word holy gospel.

The parting shot about Pac not signing had less to do with the original topic at hand, and more to do with the steroid controversy that has been going on. The $90 million itself held no real significance in that context. Change it to $10 million, an entirely plausible number, and my argument would still be the same. There's something wrong when some sun-burned to hell, chicken-farming, rice-picking peasant from one of the poorest nations in the world decides to turn down millions of dollars for one night of work.
Thanks to everyone who was entertained by my "Brown Jungle Asian" remark. I was pretty proud of myself when I typed it.


Trust me I didn't put that much thought into my reply laugh.gif

This is always bought up but correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't that same peasant already banked at least tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars? I'm pretty sure he doesn't need the money. And I might add that if he ends up fighting twice this year (Clottey and lest say Margarito) he'll undoubtely put tens of millions more in the same account.

Floyd or not it seems to me that Manny is doing just fine putting bucks in the bank. Plus living in one of the poorest nations in the world I bet Manny's dollars go a lot further laugh.gif
Hops
QUOTE (Warlord @ May 16 2010, 10:53 AM) *
There's something wrong when some sun-burned to hell, chicken-farming, rice-picking peasant from one of the poorest nations in the world decides to turn down millions of dollars for one night of work.


I don't know Warlord. Perhaps we should do a research on whether his political opponents in the Philippines gained leverage by branding him a cheating athlete because he refuses the blood test. If not, then perhaps those peasants think in ways much different from us.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
I do give Pac more credit for beating Hatton than Mayweather. It's not because he beat him faster. I just said that because it does get people talking. It passes that "eye test", and that stuff does matter. I didn't mean to make it sound like he should be p4p # 1 because he beat him faster, but it sure helps your star power when people talk about your fight, and how you dominated a jr. welterweight champion like that. The reason it is more impressive is because it was at Hatton's natural weight class. He had one bad round against Lazcano, and he dominated 11 of the 12 rounds. Next, he went on to dominate Malignaggi, whom many picked to beat him. Mayweather made Hatton come up to 147, where he had only fought one time in his career. That one time was against Louie Collazo, and Collazo had him out on his feet and he looked terrible. Now that's a fight Hatton looked like crap in, not the Lazcano fight. He was buzzed against Lazcano, but I don't believe he was on his way out or anything. Hatton seemed to have his career back on track, he was at his natural weight, and Pacquiao had only fought one time above 135 going into that fight. To dominate Hatton and knock him down three times at his natural weight was more impressive to me.

I believe many felt Oscar was one round away from a draw in that fight. In the first 7 rounds Oscar was doing a solid job of getting his jab out there, and he was winning some rounds in that fight. Like you said though, that's a different thread for a different time. However, hindsight is always 20/20. Nobody thought Manny was going to win that fight against Oscar. It's Oscar's choice to take the weight off the way he did. I also don't think it's a bitch move to ask Oscar to move down one weight class, when Manny was moving up two after one fight. If Oscar didn't think he could do it, then get another fight. It's not like Oscar De La Hoya doesn't have options. Pacquiao really dominated him pillar to post, something that has never been done to Oscar. De La Hoya won every round against Forbes, and was on his toes boxing. Forbes was never in the fight, so I don't know how he looked like crap. Sure he got hit a couple times, but it's boxing. Forbes has never been stopped so it's really unfair to look for that. However, he won every round and didnt look like a shot fighter. I guess that to me makes the Oscar victory more impressive than Floyd's. I see the logic with the weight, and I'll give you that. However, nobody has done that to De La Hoya the way Pacquiao did. Pacquiao wasn't even supposed to be competitive in the fight either.

Marquez is not a welterweight, and that's the point. I don't remember Pacquiao really struggling to make 130 or 135. He wasn't weight drained for those fights, and that showed. Marquez was at his natural weight, and it was a fair weight. Getting back up to 145 is different than walking around at 145 and fighting at that weight. Marquez was fighting a natural welterweight against Mayweather, and a natural lightweight at best against Pac. That's a big difference, and you know that. I'm sure Marquez was able to get back up to at least 137 before the Pac fight. However, getting down in weight that much takes something out of you. I'll give you the Cotto point, that's fair. I didn't mention Cotto in my first post because I do think he was ruined by Margarito. However, Oscar could have taken the weight off properly. I mean he fought at 150 against Forbes and looked just fine. He was on his toes, and he got his shots off. Oscar only put on one pound after the weigh in too. He could have done that more proper.

Anyway, point is, Manny earned the p4p status after Floyd retired, and I don't think he's relinquished it. Mosley was made for Mayweather, and was coming off an 18 month layoff. His last three fights he lost to Cotto, struggled against Mayorga, and beat Margarito when he wasn't mentally ready for that fight. Mosley's style has always been made for Floyd. He comes forward, and tries to load up that right hand. That victory and a victory over a smaller man is not more impressive than what Manny has done the last 2.5 years. Not to mention, Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright already beat down Shane Mosley first if you want to use that logic. Mosley's lost five times before Mayweather fought him and he was 38. Just saying that logic can go both ways. I'm not sipping the Pacquiao kool-aid, in fact I've openly said Mayweather beats Pac when they fight. However, that's not what we're debating. Manny's earned the p4p status, and hasn't relinquished it yet.
dominicbuilder9k1
QUOTE (JD @ May 14 2010, 05:14 AM) *
I am going to go with "no"

No...Not Yet...not even close.
dominicbuilder9k1
QUOTE (KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ May 16 2010, 08:40 AM) *
I do give Pac more credit for beating Hatton than Mayweather. It's not because he beat him faster. I just said that because it does get people talking. It passes that "eye test", and that stuff does matter. I didn't mean to make it sound like he should be p4p # 1 because he beat him faster, but it sure helps your star power when people talk about your fight, and how you dominated a jr. welterweight champion like that. The reason it is more impressive is because it was at Hatton's natural weight class. He had one bad round against Lazcano, and he dominated 11 of the 12 rounds. Next, he went on to dominate Malignaggi, whom many picked to beat him. Mayweather made Hatton come up to 147, where he had only fought one time in his career. That one time was against Louie Collazo, and Collazo had him out on his feet and he looked terrible. Now that's a fight Hatton looked like crap in, not the Lazcano fight. He was buzzed against Lazcano, but I don't believe he was on his way out or anything. Hatton seemed to have his career back on track, he was at his natural weight, and Pacquiao had only fought one time above 135 going into that fight. To dominate Hatton and knock him down three times at his natural weight was more impressive to me.

I believe many felt Oscar was one round away from a draw in that fight. In the first 7 rounds Oscar was doing a solid job of getting his jab out there, and he was winning some rounds in that fight. Like you said though, that's a different thread for a different time. However, hindsight is always 20/20. Nobody thought Manny was going to win that fight against Oscar. It's Oscar's choice to take the weight off the way he did. I also don't think it's a bitch move to ask Oscar to move down one weight class, when Manny was moving up two after one fight. If Oscar didn't think he could do it, then get another fight. It's not like Oscar De La Hoya doesn't have options. Pacquiao really dominated him pillar to post, something that has never been done to Oscar. De La Hoya won every round against Forbes, and was on his toes boxing. Forbes was never in the fight, so I don't know how he looked like crap. Sure he got hit a couple times, but it's boxing. Forbes has never been stopped so it's really unfair to look for that. However, he won every round and didnt look like a shot fighter. I guess that to me makes the Oscar victory more impressive than Floyd's. I see the logic with the weight, and I'll give you that. However, nobody has done that to De La Hoya the way Pacquiao did. Pacquiao wasn't even supposed to be competitive in the fight either.

Marquez is not a welterweight, and that's the point. I don't remember Pacquiao really struggling to make 130 or 135. He wasn't weight drained for those fights, and that showed. Marquez was at his natural weight, and it was a fair weight. Getting back up to 145 is different than walking around at 145 and fighting at that weight. Marquez was fighting a natural welterweight against Mayweather, and a natural lightweight at best against Pac. That's a big difference, and you know that. I'm sure Marquez was able to get back up to at least 137 before the Pac fight. However, getting down in weight that much takes something out of you. I'll give you the Cotto point, that's fair. I didn't mention Cotto in my first post because I do think he was ruined by Margarito. However, Oscar could have taken the weight off properly. I mean he fought at 150 against Forbes and looked just fine. He was on his toes, and he got his shots off. Oscar only put on one pound after the weigh in too. He could have done that more proper.

Anyway, point is, Manny earned the p4p status after Floyd retired, and I don't think he's relinquished it. Mosley was made for Mayweather, and was coming off an 18 month layoff. His last three fights he lost to Cotto, struggled against Mayorga, and beat Margarito when he wasn't mentally ready for that fight. Mosley's style has always been made for Floyd. He comes forward, and tries to load up that right hand. That victory and a victory over a smaller man is not more impressive than what Manny has done the last 2.5 years. Not to mention, Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright already beat down Shane Mosley first if you want to use that logic. Mosley's lost five times before Mayweather fought him and he was 38. Just saying that logic can go both ways. I'm not sipping the Pacquiao kool-aid, in fact I've openly said Mayweather beats Pac when they fight. However, that's not what we're debating. Manny's earned the p4p status, and hasn't relinquished it yet.

Why is Pacquiao no longer the no.1 P4P king..?.. who beat him after that Clottey fight?...
dominicbuilder9k1
QUOTE (gbh32001 @ May 15 2010, 05:52 PM) *
I can bet my testicle(save one LoL) that even Pacquiao will agree to that random testing Floyd will chicken out. His father who fabricated
the steroid issue already declares that, he doesn't like his son fighting southpaw. If there are risk in there, I think they(Ellerbe&Team Mayweather) will avoid Pacquiao until he retires.

Yeah...you are right... This issue (Fighting Floyd) was long set aside by the Pacman camp (They had had brainstorming and analysis and found out Floyd Jr actually is fearful of the Pacman)...

...however, they (Pacman Camp) did agree to compromise with that blood tests demand of Floyd (but not according to Floyd's rules)...and this is the same mindset of the Pacman camp in going to the negotiating table (the second time around)..

.....it was also agreed that Arum will do all the negotiations... the problem, however is this Arum..... he had another fighter in mind that he wanted for Pacquiao...

....and so, Manny Pacquiao did agreed to Arum's request that if he (Arum) will not be able to get the Mayweather fight, he (Pacquiao) will do fight this another fighter that Arum is pushing...

This is privilege info I got from my inside source and was relayed to me right after Arum met Pacquiao....
dominicbuilder9k1
QUOTE (dominicbuilder9k1 @ May 16 2010, 04:16 PM) *
Yeah...you are right... This issue (Fighting Floyd) was long set aside by the Pacman camp (They had had brainstorming and analysis and found out Floyd Jr actually is fearful of the Pacman)...

...however, they (Pacman Camp) did agree to compromise with that blood tests demand of Floyd (but not according to Floyd's rules)...and this is the same mindset of the Pacman camp in going to the negotiating table (the second time around)..

.....it was also agreed that Arum will do all the negotiations... the problem, however is this Arum..... he had another fighter in mind that he wanted for Pacquiao...

....and so, Manny Pacquiao did agreed to Arum's request that if he (Arum) will not be able to get the Mayweather fight, he (Pacquiao) will do fight this another fighter that Arum is pushing...

This is privilege info I got from my inside source and was relayed to me right after Arum met Pacquiao....

btw, the same source of mine was the one who told me before that the Pacman will file defamation suit against the Mayweathers.... i think i was the first one who put that info iin here or somewhere else (?)...and after 2 days, Pacman did sue the Mayweathers et al...
lloyd mayflower
They found through brainstorming and analysis that Mayweather is scared????

WTF?

And Kyle, your right about Pac. I too think Floyd beats him but if you come back from retirement, into the same division as the number one guy, I think you have to fight him to take it from him. Its not like we need to interpret individual fights of each guy to see whose the best because they cant meet due to weight. These two can and should meet. So thats the way for Floyd to take it. Its not about P4P number 1 anymore, its about who wins out of these 2, at 147.

The only way Floyd takes p4p away from Pac without fighting him is beating Martinez
gbh32001
That "Brown Jungle Asian" made all the latino's, white's,black's wipe their butt on the canvas..I hate 'em... threaten.gif
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