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BigG
Pacquiao has said that Cotto is possible and Cotto is willing to fight Pacquiao as well.

Cotto looks healthier at 154.

But I think Pac beats him again, but it would be closer.
King Eugene
Same outcome...different weight class.
Snoop
Cotto takes more of the opening rounds, but gets overwhelmed by trading shots in the late rounds.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
The first fight wasn't close enough to warrant a rematch.
JonnyBlaze
Cotto would just get destroyed again..
milmascaras1
i like cotto's chances in a rematch. for one thing, he won't have to fight at a catchweight (steward won't let him) and he'll be better prepared with steward instead of with his last trainer. cotto definitely looks stronger at 154. i think steward will employ the right strategy and physical training to beat pacquiao.
D-MARV
Would people actually support this fight?
ViperSniper
Pac will once again make Cotto come down to 145 for his 154 title! Pac has some serious nerves if he is serious about fighting Cotto again!
Douchebag
negotiation tactic
Hops
Cotto said that he's available for 147 and 154. So, that means the weight isn't the problem. He needs to learn how to time Pac like what Marquez did.
Fitz
I am very, very interested in seeing this fight again. I don't know if Cotto will 'fight' him again. But with the right approach, Cotto can beat Pacquiao if he is very disciplined. It won't be the exciting Cotto that we see, but if Steward can make Cotto fight with discipline, and to an extent safe. This could be a very interesting fight. At this stage, I will pick Pacquiao, because I haven't seen Cotto do what he has to do for 12 full rounds, he gets drawn into fights as that's him. But if Steward can turn him into a guy with discipline, it could be interesting.
I want to see this fight again, I like Cotto and that fight against Pacquiao did him no justice, he can fight much better than that and has the tools to beat him, just not the discipline/patience or whatever it is to do it for 12 full rounds.
I saw Cotto outbox Pacquio when he boxed, I saw him get his ass beat around the ring when he tried to man up and fight. People won't agree with me, so I won't make it a big issue, but I wouldn't mind seeing this again.
Douchebag
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 10 2010, 07:45 AM) *
I am very, very interested in seeing this fight again. I don't know if Cotto will 'fight' him again. But with the right approach, Cotto can beat Pacquiao if he is very disciplined. It won't be the exciting Cotto that we see, but if Steward can make Cotto fight with discipline, and to an extent safe. This could be a very interesting fight. At this stage, I will pick Pacquiao, because I haven't seen Cotto do what he has to do for 12 full rounds, he gets drawn into fights as that's him. But if Steward can turn him into a guy with discipline, it could be interesting.
I want to see this fight again, I like Cotto and that fight against Pacquiao did him no justice, he can fight much better than that and has the tools to beat him, just not the discipline/patience or whatever it is to do it for 12 full rounds.
I saw Cotto outbox Pacquio when he boxed, I saw him get his ass beat around the ring when he tried to man up and fight. People won't agree with me, so I won't make it a big issue, but I wouldn't mind seeing this again.



I agree Fitz, with the right approach Cotto could break Manny down and take him out late.
tottenham19
No interest in this fight. Same outcome.
JD
Cotto will not fair any better regardless what weight the fight is at.

Cotto came out yesterday saying he would do the fight at 147...LOL. 147...154...Cotto's feet will not allow him to have any additional success.
D-MARV
Pacquiao TKO12


Cotto was the same fighter on saturday that he has been throughout his career.
PR316
Cotto would do better, but Pacquiao is still too fast, too sharp, and too overwhelming...

Cotto might start well, and get hit less, but Pacquiao will still be too much overall.


Pacquiao UD
JLUVBABY
im pretty sure i saw the same cotto that fought pac the last time and im not sure steward will help with his style of fighting... if anything the fight will be easier for pac this time cuzz cotto could find himself stuck between styles... im not sure cotto is a slick enough boxer to box pac for 12 rounds.. i will say id pay to watch it tho.. id def. support this fight...
mrwigi
i was thinking the same thing.... pac fights for cotto's 154 belt at 150.


QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Jun 10 2010, 06:32 AM) *
Pac will once again make Cotto come down to 145 for his 154 title! Pac has some serious nerves if he is serious about fighting Cotto again!

BoxingStill#1
Funny thing is Cotto seems to get in this wierd wannabe mayweather defense and wierd "how low can you go" thing... Mainly when he gets into deep water..

I didnt see any of that Saturday night...

I saw the pre-mosely Cotto saturday night....

There was a time when we thought Cotto had a good chance with even the likes of Mayweather due to his stiff jab, and methodical presure.....

This Cotto would give Pacman fits....

Kudos to Emanuel, he may have revived the brutal presure fighter that once EVERYONE respected......

GARCIA
Pacquiao by TKO..
Cotto beat an undefeated bum, I don't think Cottos Skills improved that much, He just fought a Lesser opponent
Fitz
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jun 11 2010, 02:33 AM) *
Pacquiao TKO12


Cotto was the same fighter on saturday that he has been throughout his career.


He is definitely the same fighter. To me he doesn't need to become 'better', he needs to be more efficient. Lets say with Pacquiao (I'm just making up numbers in my head, but to give you an example), he 'fought' with him 80% of the fight, and boxed with him 20% of the fight. To me, he needs to fix that ratio, not his style or skills. Because personally, I feel he has the skills. Look, I'm not saying I am picking Cotto in this fight if they rematch definitely, but I feel he just needs to fix the ratio.
So when you say he is the same fighter, I don't disagree because it didn't look like he added more tools to his arsenal, looked quicker or anything, though he did seem to be more efficient as in he boxed more. I just think he needs to manage his ratio better, or at least know when he should increase the boxing ratio more (eg - Margarito, Pacquiao). That is why I think Steward was a great mix for him, and that's what he needed help in. Steward tends to make guys more efficient and increase their boxing ratio. Look at what he did with Lewis, Wlad and how they became better towards the end of their career. I don't see why Cotto can't follow in the same footsteps, but I think Cotto is tougher than those two, so we won't get the extreme where Cotto is safe for the whole entire fight like Wlad, lol.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 10 2010, 07:09 PM) *
He is definitely the same fighter. To me he doesn't need to become 'better', he needs to be more efficient. Lets say with Pacquiao (I'm just making up numbers in my head, but to give you an example), he 'fought' with him 80% of the fight, and boxed with him 20% of the fight. To me, he needs to fix that ratio, not his style or skills. Because personally, I feel he has the skills. Look, I'm not saying I am picking Cotto in this fight if they rematch definitely, but I feel he just needs to fix the ratio.
So when you say he is the same fighter, I don't disagree because it didn't look like he added more tools to his arsenal, looked quicker or anything, though he did seem to be more efficient as in he boxed more. I just think he needs to manage his ratio better, or at least know when he should increase the boxing ratio more (eg - Margarito, Pacquiao). That is why I think Steward was a great mix for him, and that's what he needed help in. Steward tends to make guys more efficient and increase their boxing ratio. Look at what he did with Lewis, Wlad and how they became better towards the end of their career. I don't see why Cotto can't follow in the same footsteps, but I think Cotto is tougher than those two, so we won't get the extreme where Cotto is safe for the whole entire fight like Wlad, lol.

And that's where the problem begins. Cotto has the ability to outbox Pacquiao over a short stretch but Pacquiao will keep coming and he brings high energy for the full 3 minutes of every round. Cotto does not have the same discipline that a Marquez or a Mayweather has. Eventually he will be dragged in to a war and Pacquiao's shot will land first and slice Cotto up. I think Steward may help Cotto win a few more of the early rounds but the ending will be the same. Cotto needs to stay away from Pacquiao and even Margarito for that matter... those guys are ALL WRONG for Cotto. If I'm Cotto's handlers, I would target Spinks or Angulo. Cotto is beating the shit out of both those guys and he unifies the straps.
JD
I want Cotto - Kirkland.
xxxxxx
QUOTE (JD @ Jun 10 2010, 06:40 PM) *
I want Cotto - Kirkland.



That would be a great fight.
Fitz
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jun 11 2010, 09:34 AM) *
And that's where the problem begins. Cotto has the ability to outbox Pacquiao over a short stretch but Pacquiao will keep coming and he brings high energy for the full 3 minutes of every round. Cotto does not have the same discipline that a Marquez or a Mayweather has. Eventually he will be dragged in to a war and Pacquiao's shot will land first and slice Cotto up. I think Steward may help Cotto win a few more of the early rounds but the ending will be the same. Cotto needs to stay away from Pacquiao and even Margarito for that matter... those guys are ALL WRONG for Cotto. If I'm Cotto's handlers, I would target Spinks or Angulo. Cotto is beating the shit out of both those guys and he unifies the straps.


You may very well be right, and I may even tend to agree with you. I am not prepared to come out and say Cotto wins now because the first fight was one sided, though I saw glimpses of things Cotto did that bamboozled Manny early when he used the jab and boxed, just didn't do enough of it. I know Mosley isn't Pacquiao, but Cotto even showed a little more patience in that fight and boxed a little more. I think he can take it to the next step with Steward. Whether that's going to be enough is another story.
Look, I'm not really arguing on whether Cotto wins this fight or not, but I think he does have the tools, and having Steward in his corner to me makes things more interesting. I'm more on the side and making the argument here that I would be interested in seeing this fight again, because I don't think the first fight did Cotto any justice. I am usually never keen on rematches where the first fight was one sided. I'm usually ALWAYS against it, though for some reason I have some interest in this one because I think Cotto can do better in it and make it close with the right mentality. Many people have no interest in it, just arguing that I'm in the minority that would love to see Cotto have another crack, he is better than that.
Keith
All this proves is Cotto has no problem accepting a lot of cash in exchange for an ass whipping.

The first fight wasnt anywhere near close. What Cotto win... 2 of the early rounds?

What can we hope for this time... that he makes it closer?

I dont want to watch a rematch hoping it's closer, I only want to watch if I think it can go either way.
Snoop
There are definitely some unknown factors playing into a rematch.

1) We don't know if the catch-weight affected Cotto or not. A rematch at 154 should answer that question and also pose another one in how Pac handles yet another weight class, unless of course he asks for another BS catch-weight title fight (which he probably will) laugh.gif

2) Having Steward rather than a "yes-man" trainer in the corner will definitely make a difference. I think we saw some modest improvement last Saturday.

3) Cotto has a better idea of how to fight Pac using a jab and if he can stick to a disciplined gameplan, he has a chance.

I'm in agreement with JD in that Pac's foot speed and awkward angles gives Cotto hell, but I think it only costs him the fight if he gets drawn into a firefight with Manny (which could very likely happen). If Miguel can fight a disciplined boxing match, I see the fight being much more competitive.
SmartyBeardo
3 pages (so far) analyzing a Pac v Cotto rematch?

Just say no.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Snoop @ Jun 10 2010, 10:12 PM) *
There are definitely some unknown factors playing into a rematch.

1) We don't know if the catch-weight affected Cotto or not. A rematch at 154 should answer that question and also pose another one in how Pac handles yet another weight class, unless of course he asks for another BS catch-weight title fight (which he probably will) laugh.gif

2) Having Steward rather than a "yes-man" trainer in the corner will definitely make a difference. I think we saw some modest improvement last Saturday.

3) Cotto has a better idea of how to fight Pac using a jab and if he can stick to a disciplined gameplan, he has a chance.

I'm in agreement with JD in that Pac's foot speed and awkward angles gives Cotto hell, but I think it only costs him the fight if he gets drawn into a firefight with Manny (which could very likely happen). If Miguel can fight a disciplined boxing match, I see the fight being much more competitive.


Finally some one comes up with a good post that makes sense.

Sorry, Cotto was drained and had practically nothing on his punches in the 3rd or 4th round. And don't give me this shit Pac beat it out of him. That has nothing to do with losing your power and stamina like that so early.

I would favor Pac in a rematch, but not as near one sided affair. Pac still got a big speed advantage in there. I just see Cotto being more dangerous for a longer time and being more competitive.

Great point Snoop about his last "yes man" trainer, Stewart should be able to get more out of Cotto.

Good point about Cotto learning to use his jab more often to control Pedman.

I also should say in Manny's defense he is not a natural 154 pounder and he does not have to fight Cotto at that weight. He should stick to fighting 140-147. Now maybe if he ups his "juice", he can fill in to a 154lbs nicely. laugh.gif
kidbazooka1
Cotto could hang with pretty much anyone except for Pacqiuao i hope this doesn't go through for Cotto's sake but if it does happen Manny stops him sooner this time.
streetlion1
Roidman Pacquiao--
I think that given the right stategy and gameplan with Emanuel Steward it isnt out of the question that Cotto could beat Pacquiao. As long as he is able to box more this time around and keeps throwing his jab. This wouldnt be a 2lbs drained Cotto at 145....it would be a strong better trained Cotto at 154. Who is to say that Manny would carry all of his speed and power into another weight class? All I know is if the rematch does happen Cotto should take the Mayweather stance and make Manny test.

Margacheato--
Shouldnt even be allowed to box again let alone get another payday off of Cotto.

Mayweather--
I talked about this fight in the gym the other day and out of about 8 guys only 2 gave Cotto a shot....I was one of them. I think Cottos jab and body work would give Mayweather problems.....although I think Mayweather figures Cotto out and cruises to a decision I think the fight would be better than alot of people think.

I dont wanna see Cotto fight Martinez or PW...Berto could be a possibility but I think another confidence building win and then let him fight the winner of Mayweather-Crackiuao at 154.
JD
Floyd would carve Cotto up.

It's those feet again.
Douchebag
QUOTE (JD @ Jun 12 2010, 07:28 AM) *
Floyd would carve Cotto up.

It's those feet again.



I think you underate his feet. I favor May in the fight but Cotto makes it interesting.
JD
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 12 2010, 11:06 AM) *
I think you underate his feet. I favor May in the fight but Cotto makes it interesting.


He has heavy feet. His footwork isn't the issue...that's fine.

Snoop
Cotto definitely has heavy feet. He usually plods around the ring. Mayweather's way too fast and elusive for Cotto to set up his offense.
JD
Basically...by the time Cotto looked to land something, Floyd would have landed and moved.
streetlion1
I think Cottos footspeed and handspeed are under rated.....if an older DLH can pressure him certainly Cotto can as long as the jab is always first. I would love Floyd to fight Cotto the way he fought Mosley....then we would really see what Floyd is made of....but im sure that come forward/stand his ground style was just a gamplan for Mosley.

Only 2 cheaters have beatin Cotto....and in the fight with PacRoid I think he was slightly drained with a bad corner. Im interested to see how he looks after another fight with Emanuel Steward. I think Floyd wins but it would be by a score of 115-113 or something like that. He doesnt blow Cotto outta the water.
JD
His hand speed and foot speed looked slow against Pac and they would look slow against Floyd.

Underrated or not, his foot and hand speed are not in the same league as Pac or Floyd.
streetlion1
QUOTE (JD @ Jun 14 2010, 02:56 PM) *
His hand speed and foot speed looked slow against Pac and they would look slow against Floyd.

Underrated or not, his foot and hand speed are not in the same league as Pac or Floyd.

Well of course ur talking about arguably to 2 fastest fighters out there....they will probably out match everyone they face in those categories....but what im saying is I think Cotto is fast enough to make Floyd uncomfortable as long as his jab is there.
JD
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Jun 14 2010, 04:00 PM) *
Well of course ur talking about arguably to 2 fastest fighters out there....they will probably out match everyone they face in those categories....but what im saying is I think Cotto is fast enough to make Floyd uncomfortable as long as his jab is there.


OK...but the reason I am talking about those two fighters is because that is who we are talking about him fighting in this thread.


streetlion1
QUOTE (JD @ Jun 14 2010, 03:13 PM) *
OK...but the reason I am talking about those two fighters is because that is who we are talking about him fighting in this thread.

lol...yea I know......I think when i match him up against Pacquiao...I think if Cotto boxed the whole fight he would beat Manny clearly...the only concern being stamina down the stretch. Since we already saw them fight I think the first thing people would think is it would just be a replay of the first fight but I think a Cotto with a great trainer who wont allow him to abandon his jab and get into trading constantly is a very dangerous Cotto. Manny is there to be hit and can be outboxed.

Cotto is a guy I have always wanted Floyd to fight because Cotto likes to use his jab and go to the body.....I know there will be an obvious difference in speed but I dont think speed really bothers Cotto.....even in the Pacquiao fight I dont think it was the speed it was more about Cotto not really having the right gameplan and coming out trying to bang Manny out. Minus the joke fight when Floyd fought Marquez and his unusual come forward style against Mosley.....Floyd has fought retreating...often backing up to the ropes and using his shoulder roll...Cotto isnt as fast but I would say he is faster than DLH was when he fought Floyd.....now Cotto doesnt have the reach and size DLH had but his work to the body is something Floyd would have to deal with.....he may be able to follow that strategy to give Floyd a fight. With the way Cotto holds his guard I dont think Floyd would be able to land his check left hook he like at will but I do see him chopping Cotto up with the jab and straight right....I think it would be a much better fight than Mayweather-Pacquiao is going to be......I really hope one day we get to see it.

JD

Cotto couldn't outbox him and he couldn't stalk him behind a jab...so he was kind of caught in the middle. Once Manny started letting his hands go it was "night over".

Nothing Cotto could have done would have changed that. I mean, the fight wasn't even competitive.
Fitz
QUOTE (JD @ Jun 15 2010, 09:26 AM) *
Cotto couldn't outbox him and he couldn't stalk him behind a jab...so he was kind of caught in the middle. O


I still disagree that Cotto couldn't outbox him. I thought he was doing that in the limited time he spent boxing. Cotto lost when he began to choose to fight with him, neglected his body attack, and went head hunting.
I know it's hard for me to make a case when the fight was one sided and I know I am never going to change the opinion of someone that feels that way, because it was one sided. I just don't believe that Cotto 'couldn't' outbox him.
Clottey only being allowed to fight Pacquiao for about 10% of the fight was outboxing him in that 10%, lol. Cotto's problem to me is the discipline, he can outbox him. He just wants to fight everyone, and he doesn't know how to hold on and get by when hurt, but I still think he has the tools if he fights a good fight.
SmartyBeardo
Cotto is a star on his own. Why shouldn't he pick and choose his way through the boneyard for awhile? Screw Pac. He should fight Spinks. Rematch Foreman. Then go after Angulo.

He has earned it.
Snoop
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 15 2010, 02:47 AM) *
I still disagree that Cotto couldn't outbox him. I thought he was doing that in the limited time he spent boxing. Cotto lost when he began to choose to fight with him, neglected his body attack, and went head hunting.
I know it's hard for me to make a case when the fight was one sided and I know I am never going to change the opinion of someone that feels that way, because it was one sided. I just don't believe that Cotto 'couldn't' outbox him.
Clottey only being allowed to fight Pacquiao for about 10% of the fight was outboxing him in that 10%, lol. Cotto's problem to me is the discipline, he can outbox him. He just wants to fight everyone, and he doesn't know how to hold on and get by when hurt, but I still think he has the tools if he fights a good fight.

Stole the words out my fingers...

Cotto was having a relatively successful go in the opening rounds IMO, though part of that could have been due to Pac holding back as well. But once Cotto got KD'd the second time, it was over. It was then he opted to trade and stalk rather than stick and go to the body. Had he stayed to the opening round gameplan, the fight would have been closer; maybe not a win, but closer than the blowout that occurred.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Jun 14 2010, 05:45 PM) *
lol...yea I know......I think when i match him up against Pacquiao...I think if Cotto boxed the whole fight he would beat Manny clearly...the only concern being stamina down the stretch. Since we already saw them fight I think the first thing people would think is it would just be a replay of the first fight but I think a Cotto with a great trainer who wont allow him to abandon his jab and get into trading constantly is a very dangerous Cotto. Manny is there to be hit and can be outboxed.

Cotto is a guy I have always wanted Floyd to fight because Cotto likes to use his jab and go to the body.....I know there will be an obvious difference in speed but I dont think speed really bothers Cotto.....even in the Pacquiao fight I dont think it was the speed it was more about Cotto not really having the right gameplan and coming out trying to bang Manny out. Minus the joke fight when Floyd fought Marquez and his unusual come forward style against Mosley.....Floyd has fought retreating...often backing up to the ropes and using his shoulder roll...Cotto isnt as fast but I would say he is faster than DLH was when he fought Floyd.....now Cotto doesnt have the reach and size DLH had but his work to the body is something Floyd would have to deal with.....he may be able to follow that strategy to give Floyd a fight. With the way Cotto holds his guard I dont think Floyd would be able to land his check left hook he like at will but I do see him chopping Cotto up with the jab and straight right....I think it would be a much better fight than Mayweather-Pacquiao is going to be......I really hope one day we get to see it.


And that's where we'll have to disagree. I think Pac's speed played a BIG factor in that fight. Cotto has never faced a guy that quick, he probably thought Mosley was quickish but Pac was a whole other level on what he'd ever fought.

The problem is he started getting hit with punches he didn't see coming and once that began he reverted to type.

Also yourself and a few others have mentioned 'if' Cotto could stick to a strategy. Well the point is he can't. That's why as good as he is he isn't in the great category alongside the likes of Mayweather and Pac. The truly great guys can follow the gameplan to the tee. It's that kind of discipline that is a testimony to their greatness and is what marks them out as special fighters.

JD
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 14 2010, 10:47 PM) *
I still disagree that Cotto couldn't outbox him. I thought he was doing that in the limited time he spent boxing. Cotto lost when he began to choose to fight with him, neglected his body attack, and went head hunting.
I know it's hard for me to make a case when the fight was one sided and I know I am never going to change the opinion of someone that feels that way, because it was one sided. I just don't believe that Cotto 'couldn't' outbox him.
Clottey only being allowed to fight Pacquiao for about 10% of the fight was outboxing him in that 10%, lol. Cotto's problem to me is the discipline, he can outbox him. He just wants to fight everyone, and he doesn't know how to hold on and get by when hurt, but I still think he has the tools if he fights a good fight.


Cotto outboxed Pac until Manny started letting his hands go, which was roughly a round.

If Cotto would have tried to get to Pac's body, he would have gotten KO'd much earlier by one of those uppercuts. I mean, it's not like this fight was close, and I think at some point you have to look at it and say that Cotto realized he had to try to fight with Pac because he could not outbox him over the long haul.
Method
I like Cotto, but he ain't beating Manny...not at Welter, anyway. He didnt or couldnt "out" anything Manny at 147.
D-MARV
I just don't think Cotto has the discipline to outbox Pacquiao for 12 rounds. He can outbox him for 1 round or maybe 2 rounds if they fight again but he will be lured into another fight and forced to exchange THUS leading to another Manny Pacquiao stoppage.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Jun 14 2010, 05:45 PM) *
lol...yea I know......I think when i match him up against Pacquiao...I think if Cotto boxed the whole fight he would beat Manny clearly...the only concern being stamina down the stretch. Since we already saw them fight I think the first thing people would think is it would just be a replay of the first fight but I think a Cotto with a great trainer who wont allow him to abandon his jab and get into trading constantly is a very dangerous Cotto. Manny is there to be hit and can be outboxed.

Cotto is a guy I have always wanted Floyd to fight because Cotto likes to use his jab and go to the body.....I know there will be an obvious difference in speed but I dont think speed really bothers Cotto.....even in the Pacquiao fight I dont think it was the speed it was more about Cotto not really having the right gameplan and coming out trying to bang Manny out. Minus the joke fight when Floyd fought Marquez and his unusual come forward style against Mosley.....Floyd has fought retreating...often backing up to the ropes and using his shoulder roll...Cotto isnt as fast but I would say he is faster than DLH was when he fought Floyd.....now Cotto doesnt have the reach and size DLH had but his work to the body is something Floyd would have to deal with.....he may be able to follow that strategy to give Floyd a fight. With the way Cotto holds his guard I dont think Floyd would be able to land his check left hook he like at will but I do see him chopping Cotto up with the jab and straight right....I think it would be a much better fight than Mayweather-Pacquiao is going to be......I really hope one day we get to see it.


in all fairness to floyd street.... floyd fought mosley in the style that he used back in his lighter weight days when he had power and was taking guys out on a regular basis... i think in his time off he grew more into the 147 lb division and thats why we saw him fight in that style again because hes comfortable at the weight now... he looks more like a welter now... i could be wrong but thats what i think...
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