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Jack 1000
Hey All,

Ben's got a good article on the front page proposing a heavyweight "Super Six" tournament for Showtime. What do you all think?

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content7831.html

I think it's interesting, and really an idea that all of the boxing divisions should embrace! Consistency and uniformity is essential to getting the general public interested in boxing again. People really like these tournaments! However, there is an underlining problem, especially with the heavyweights.

The issue is that the heavyweight division sucks today. We have, with maybe a few exceptions a "Primo Canera" bum of the month club. Either that, or fighters who are well past their prime and done their time. (Toney, Rahman....well Rahman was a one-shot wonder when he KO'd Lewis the first time. That's it.) As Ben said, Arreloa has balls, but is extremely limited. You have guys that are either too old, too limited, or nobody gives a fuck. I have to agree with one of the comments that I might be paraphrasing here. They said, "The heavyweight division needs a man, a stand-out, and going through a heavyweight Super Six, while I agree with the principle and spirit of such an idea, it would be very difficult to market such a concept without "The Man" present. In it's current form, the emerging tournament winner would just beat a sad crop of mediocre or has been heavyweights. This is because there is no "Tyson type" dominate fighter in this current division. It worked in 1986-1987 with HBO's heavyweight unification series, because Tyson was in it. And it wasn't so much that people wanted the heavyweight unification series, they wanted to see Tyson kick ass in the heavyweight unification series. Without a current bad-ass in this tournament, it's a moot point in having one, because no one is really going to care who beats whom because there's no bad ass left standing whom the general public wants to see win.

The sad truth is that the overly cautious style of the Klitschko's and their refusal to fight each other, (and even if they did, it would be a 12-round paddy-cake sparring session with one brother refusing to hurt the other) shows what is wrong with the current heavyweight division's sorry state. To make a tournament work for the heavyweights, we don't need the old retreads of limited fighters and old-timers fighting each other. Boxing needs the next dominate bad ass (i.e, the next Tyson) to beat all the guys on Ben's list and culminate this by knocking out both Klitschkos to unite the heavyweight division. Without a dominate force in the heavyweights, and a bad ass to make the public take notice of the heavyweights again, a tournament for heavyweights may be a moot point. Get a destruct and destroy fighter in there, and I think Ben's idea is AWESOME! (As long as the destruct and destroy guy is in the tournament.)

Jack
salvador
The brilliance of the Super 6 at 168 was that there were a group of competitive, A-/B+ level guys who were up and coming and entertaining fighters who nobody had ever heard of and the Super 6 tournament allowed all of them to get serious exposure that they never would have otherwise. It drew a spotlight to an underappreciated division and there have been some really solid competitive fights.

The problem with Hype's idea with the HWs is that they are all has-beens and the public is already bored to death with them. None of his fighters have any star potential or any chance whatsoever of beating either KLIT. There is no great upside potential there except for maybe Adamek gets a few "names" on his resume. They've all gotten the exposure that the Super 6 could have brought them. Boxing needs new blood. Maybe ESPN 2 could do Hype's Super 6.

If Showtime does another Super 6 it should be at 140 so that guys like Alexander, Bradley, Khan, Madiana and Ortiz can get some exposure that they otherwise wouldn't get and the world would get some great fights. The featherweights could be another really interesting division for a Super 6.

thehype
QUOTE (salvador @ Jun 22 2010, 05:45 PM) *
The brilliance of the Super 6 at 168 was that there were a group of competitive, A-/B+ level guys who were up and coming and entertaining fighters who nobody had ever heard of and the Super 6 tournament allowed all of them to get serious exposure that they never would have otherwise. It drew a spotlight to an underappreciated division and there have been some really solid competitive fights.

The problem with Hype's idea with the HWs is that they are all has-beens and the public is already bored to death with them. None of his fighters have any star potential or any chance whatsoever of beating either KLIT. There is no great upside potential there except for maybe Adamek gets a few "names" on his resume. They've all gotten the exposure that the Super 6 could have brought them. Boxing needs new blood. Maybe ESPN 2 could do Hype's Super 6.

If Showtime does another Super 6 it should be at 140 so that guys like Alexander, Bradley, Khan, Madiana and Ortiz can get some exposure that they otherwise wouldn't get and the world would get some great fights. The featherweights could be another really interesting division for a Super 6.


The problem is that there aren't any exciting, competitive, up-and-coming heavyweights out there. I mean, Chris Arreola MIGHT be the best there is, and yet he couldn't even hang with Adamek. That's fuckin' sad. The tournament that I'm proposing isn't to find the next big star in the heavyweight division...on the contrary, it's simply to breathe some life and get some attention back to a division that's on life support...a division where the champions (Klitschko, Klitschko and Haye) aren't even being televised anymore here in the States. If you're waiting around for "new blood" in the heavyweight division, sadly, it just isn't there, so instead of complaining about what we don't have, let's embrace what we do have. Although the talent isn't great at heavyweight, there's still some interesting fights that can be made which will actually produce fireworks in a division that has been lacking that type of entertainment for quite some time. I mean, seriously, you don't think Tarver vs. Toney would be interesting? You don't think Tua vs. Adamek isn't going to produce fireworks? Any or all of those fights are a whole hell of a lot better than watching that bullshit performance that Kevin Johnson or Eddie Chambers gave us against Klitschko. Obviously I don't think the winner of the tournament is going to reign supreme in the division, but shit, you gotta start somewhere if you plan on getting people to watch the heavyweight division again. Just randomly picking guys like Sosnowski and Valuev for Vitali Klitschko just isn't going to cut it. In the tournament format, at the very least, after watching one of these guys climb through the pile of names, hopefully, fans will actually have a belief that one of these guys CAN beat a Klitschko, so they'll actually tune in. I mean, Chambers couldn't even get his title bid televised by HBO or Showtime...that's fuckin pathetic. A tournament, at the very least, will do exactly what you just said...give the division some much needed attention and the guys fighting in it some exposure.

Like I said, I'd LOVE to have a group of 6 young, talented fighters competing, but sadly, there just aren't any....and yes, I'd much rather see guys like Rahman, Briggs and Tua throw down as opposed to Eddie Chambers simply because they're not going to run like a bitch, they're there to be hit, and chances are, either they'll get knocked the fuck out or they'll be doing the knocking the fuck out. Say what you will about any of those guys, but at least you can say you've seen them on one side or the other of a highlight reel knockout. You can't say that about someone like Eddie Chambers. Even his KO loss to Klitschko was pathetic looking. LOL.

As for the idea of a Jr. Welterweight tournament, OF COURSE I'd rather see that...but man, you gotta be realistic about it. Golden Boy Promotions has the jr. welterweight division locked up, so how the heck is Showtime going to be able to stage a tournament like that? As far as tournaments go, I'm trying to be somewhat realistic here and the guys that I mentioned are all available for Showtime to make a heavyweight tournament a reality with EASE. There's no way whatsoever they'd be able to pull of a jr. welterweight tournament. Heck, I don't even think they could pull that off with the featherweights.
salvador
I guess for me the HW division is essentially dead unless Haye turns out to be more than just a big mouth. Adamek is entertaining for a blown up cruiserweight and Toney is always semi-interesting, but Tua/Rahman/Briggs/Tarver are all names that should be retired. Tua-Lewis was one of the most boring fights I've ever seen and Tarver, with the exception of that one punch, is essentially like watching paint dry. Rahman is another one punch wonder who disappointed way more than he ever delivered and Briggs never really lived up to the hype.

I hear what you're saying and I understand the idea that the HW division is the most important in the sport, but right now is just a bad period for it and I don't see any reason to draw any more attention to its lameness just because the Klits are so dominant.

I think boxing would be much better served by focusing on ANY up and coming fighters that might actually create great fights. If they merged 115 with 118 there are a bunch of exciting fighters who don't get nearly the attention they might with a super 6.
D-MARV
It does appear that tournaments are the way to go. I would love to see 140lb division do this... Bradley, Alexander, Khan, Ortiz, Maidana, and maybe someone like a Zab Judah.
Big Slim Sweet
I think it would be a fun, albeit probably pretty pointless, tourney. Toney-Tarver and Toney-Tua would certainly draw some interest.

If Hopkins finally called his own bluff and moved up to heavy there might be some added intrigue there as well.

Fuck it, throw Holyfield in there.

What about if Showtime put together a super 6 at heavyweight featuring the best of the non-Klits? You could have Haye, Adamek, Arreola, Povetkin, Peter, and some other gigantic Eastern block cat (Dimentrenko or something?)
Snoop
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Jun 23 2010, 01:49 AM) *
I think it would be a fun, albeit probably pretty pointless, tourney. Toney-Tarver and Toney-Tua would certainly draw some interest.

Pretty much. Pointless tourney in a pointless division.

Throw in anything to make it marginally interesting I say. Maybe some good will come out of it.
thehype
I'll address all of your points shortly...my bad...busy editing shit. I'll try to get back in here by the morning.

Before I come back though, if you're bored, name me 6 heavyweights that you WOULD want to see in a tournament. Here's the catch though...you can't say Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko, David Haye or Chris Arreola, because due to the contractual reasons, they will not be allowed to appear on Showtime. But other than that, everyone else is fair game. Just curious...
Snoop
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jun 23 2010, 03:32 AM) *
This ain't the World Cup. A semi round robin makes no sense to me. I said it in another thread and I understand HYPE's reasoning against it, but I still think these tournies should be single elim with a losers' bracket.

Ditto on that. Tourneys are good depending on how they're structured. The Super Six is too long IMO. Prevents up and comers from making a name from themselves and poses a problem of fighting in their primes if one of the best (Bute, at least advertised as such), is left out for whatever reason.
King Eugene
He's super green but throw in Deontay Wilder...if he's not to busy modeling for Everlast.
thehype
QUOTE (salvador @ Jun 22 2010, 06:18 PM) *
I guess for me the HW division is essentially dead unless Haye turns out to be more than just a big mouth. Adamek is entertaining for a blown up cruiserweight and Toney is always semi-interesting, but Tua/Rahman/Briggs/Tarver are all names that should be retired. Tua-Lewis was one of the most boring fights I've ever seen and Tarver, with the exception of that one punch, is essentially like watching paint dry. Rahman is another one punch wonder who disappointed way more than he ever delivered and Briggs never really lived up to the hype.


Not for nothing, but Evander Holyfield beat Valuev A LOT more convincingly than David Haye did...that and the fact that he's handpicking Audley Harrison says a lot about David Haye. I mean, I don't know why you say those guys should be retired when nobody has put them out of their misery yet. If Holyfield can essentially beat Valuev, then why would they retire? It's easy to point to guys like Tua, Rahman, Briggs and Tarver and say they shouldn't be fighting, but man, Haye sure as hell don't want anything to do with them. I would think a win over any one of those guys would have been a lot more impressive than beating up on Monte Barrett, but you didn't see Haye too quick to debut against any of them. Hell, he doesn't even want to fight them now, preferring instead to fight Audley Harrison? Really? Fuckin Fraudley Harrison? Do you really believe that's Fraudley Harrison makes for a better opponent than any of those guys? At least Rahman, Briggs and Tarver are all former champions. What the fuck has Harrison ever done? What the fuck has Monte Barrett ever done? Think about that for a minute and really put it in perspective.

As for David Tua....Tua-Lewis was boring because of Lennox Lewis more than David Tua. Don't get me wrong, Tua probably should have had a better strategy than to keep throwing that left hook, but man, if we're talking about boring fights, name the last exciting heavyweight fight you watched. Brewster vs. Lyakhovich perhaps? ALL of the Klitschko fights are boring. Vitali Klitschko vs. Kevin Johnson...boring! Wladimir Klitschko vs. Eddie Chambers...boring! Hell...David Haye vs. Nikolay Valuev...boring! And Tarver and Rahman...who cares if they're one-punch wonders? The point is, they do have that one punch, which is way more than can be said about both Chambers and Kevin Johnson, who can't crack an egg and are equally as boring and frustrating to watch. At least with a guy like Rahman, you already know he's got no problems getting laid the fuck out, which is always entertaining to watch, especially when he falls through the ropes. LOL. I'm not expecting Rahman to be the savior of the division...I'm just expecting him to trade some big shots and I think you're more likely to get that from Rahamn in a fight with Tua than you are from Eddie Chambers. Chambers vs. Tua would be Lewis vs. Tua all over again...which is not something that we want to see.

QUOTE (salvador @ Jun 22 2010, 06:18 PM) *
I hear what you're saying and I understand the idea that the HW division is the most important in the sport, but right now is just a bad period for it and I don't see any reason to draw any more attention to its lameness just because the Klits are so dominant.

I think boxing would be much better served by focusing on ANY up and coming fighters that might actually create great fights. If they merged 115 with 118 there are a bunch of exciting fighters who don't get nearly the attention they might with a super 6.


I don't care how great of a fight two guys at 115 or 118 might turn out, people just don't like watching small guys...period! For most casual fans, there's nothing better than seeing two big boys knock each other in the head...no matter how sloppy it might look...so although it's easy to say, "Fuck the heavyweights...they suck," at the same time, if you really care about the continued growth and popularity of the sport, you can't say that. If you think that people are going to tune in to watch the next 115-pound Mike Tyson, you're sadly mistaken. Yuriorkis Gamboa could be just as devastating of a KO artist as Mike Tyson ever was, but because he's small, people aren't going to care like that. I mean, don't get me wrong...WE, as diehard boxing fans, will care, but the casual fans simply won't. That's why, in my opinion, it's VERY IMPORTANT to do something about the heavyweight division...and yeah, the division may be thin with talent, but in my opinion, that doesn't mean that good fights can't be made. I mean, take Eddie Chambers and Kevin Johnson for example...two of the division's "fresher" fighters. A fight between those two would be absolutely horrible and painful to watch. However, if you take David Tua and maybe Sam Peter and throw them in the ring, that's almost guaranteed to be a whole hell of a lot more entertaining and exciting than Chambers vs. Johnson. I mean, seriously, which of those two fights would you rather watch?

The heavyweight division doesn't suck because we have a lot of shitty fighters...the division sucks because we have a lot of shitty fights. Arturo Gatti and Micky Ward weren't elite fighters, but man, they sure did put on 3 great fights. It's not necessarily about the talent...it's about the matchups.
jlupi
At first I thought hype just lost it, but I guess from an entertainment point of view it makes sense. Im still not sure tarver belongs in any tournament at heavy. He looked done at lhvy
thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 22 2010, 07:32 PM) *
Nice of him to come around and see the light. I believe you were one of those that were the critics of the 168 tourney.

Tournaments are good if they have the top fighters of the division fighting.


Actually, I'm STILL not a big fan of the 168-pound tournament. The fights need to be a lot sooner...not spread out over the course of 2-3 years. Not to mention, I absolutely HATE the idea that a guy like Allan Green can walk into the tournament and get, not one, but TWO back-to-back title shots. That's HORRIBLE. Based off his performance against Ward, there's no way in hell he should be in line for another title shot, and yet, because of the way that the tournament is set up, he is.

I don't have a problem with tournaments, per se...never did...I'm just not a fan of locking down these top fighters for so long and giving guys title shots that might be deserving.

Now, the heavyweight tournament I proposed...totally different story because there are no champions involved.

The main thing I do like about the tournament though is the scoring and the fact that there's a reason for guys to actually go looking for a knockout. Case in point, Andre Ward, who I think tried his best to KO Allan Green. Had that not been a tournament fight, I think Ward would have been content to cruise those last few rounds, but because of the tournament scoring, he was actually doing his best to get the KO. That's definitely a good thing and the reason why I think a tournament is a great idea for heavyweights.
pcraw
QUOTE (jlupi @ Jun 23 2010, 10:33 AM) *
At first I thought hype just lost it, but I guess from an entertainment point of view it makes sense. Im still not sure tarver belongs in any tournament at heavy. He looked done at lhvy



BHop looked done at middleweight until he moved up 2 weight classes and put on one of his best performances against Tarver.
thehype
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jun 22 2010, 08:04 PM) *
It does appear that tournaments are the way to go. I would love to see 140lb division do this... Bradley, Alexander, Khan, Ortiz, Maidana, and maybe someone like a Zab Judah.


I'd love to see that too, but man, I'm trying to be realistic and the fact that Golden Boy has 3 of the fighters you just named pretty much means that it ain't going to happen.

Plus, guys like Bradley and Alexander are HBO fighters and HBO just isn't in the business of actually building up talent. They prefer to let Showtime do that and then jus steal their fighters to make PPV fights. LOL.
thehype
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Jun 22 2010, 09:49 PM) *
I think it would be a fun, albeit probably pretty pointless, tourney. Toney-Tarver and Toney-Tua would certainly draw some interest.

If Hopkins finally called his own bluff and moved up to heavy there might be some added intrigue there as well.

Fuck it, throw Holyfield in there.

What about if Showtime put together a super 6 at heavyweight featuring the best of the non-Klits? You could have Haye, Adamek, Arreola, Povetkin, Peter, and some other gigantic Eastern block cat (Dimentrenko or something?)


Not for nothing, but David Haye is holding on to Holyfield's belt right now.

LOL

And for the record, Haye and Arreola are HBO fighters, so you won't be seeing them on Showtime any time soon. And Povetkin is in line to make his first millions against Wladimir Klitschko, so I doubt he would be too eager to jump into a tournament.

I think some of you may be missing the purpose of my proposed tournament. First and foremost, the goal is to get fans interested in heavyweight boxing again. A big reason why nobody cares about heavyweight boxing anymore is simply because the fights are boring. I mean, while I do think Eddie Chambers has some talent, there's a reason why HBO and Showtime decided NOT to televise his title challenge against Wladimir Klitschko. Think about that for a minute. Eddie Chambers was probably America's best hope at capturing a heavyweight title and both HBO and Showtime chose NOT to televise the fight. Why? Because he's a boring, safety-first fighter. That's not to say that there's anything wrong with that...it's just not something that the American public wants to watch when it comes to heavyweight fights. It's the same reason why HBO has decided NOT to televise practically ALL of the Klitschko fights. Those guys are boring, safety-first fighters as well...which, hey, is an effective style, but it just doesn't bring in ratings.

Again, the goal, at least my goal, is to get heavyweight boxing back on TV. Although the talent in the division is EXTREMELY thin, I do think there are still fights that can be made which will provide the type of fireworks that will entertain fans and get people interested again. Guys like Haye and Klitschko are starting to handpick opponents like Audley Harrison and Albert Sosnowski, who most people have never heard of, so it's hard to generate any type of interest in a bout like that. However, if you put together a tournament with familiar names and make fights that will be entertaining and competitive, then it will generate interest to see one of those guys eventually come out on top and provide any of the champions with a viable opponent. That's another big reason why you're not going to see Klitschko vs. Sosnowski televised on HBO...or even Haye vs. Harrison. The American public just simply doesn't know who these guys are, so handpicking opponents for meaningless fights just isn't going to cut it. At least with a tournament, if people get an opportunity to see someone like James Toney or David Tua sweep through a bunch of names, that at least builds interest to want to see that guy go on to challenge Klitschko. That's a lot better than just annointing a guy like Kevin Johnson or Tony Thompson to take care of business.

Like I said, my goal is simply to get heavyweight boxing back on TV and personally, I think a lot more fans will tune in to watch James Toney vs. Antonio Tarver at heavyweight as opposed to watching Eddie Chambers, Kevin Johnson or Ruslan Chagaev vs. anyone.
thehype
QUOTE (Snoop @ Jun 22 2010, 09:53 PM) *
Pretty much. Pointless tourney in a pointless division.

Throw in anything to make it marginally interesting I say. Maybe some good will come out of it.


I don't think I'd call it pointless. I mean, what exactly is the point of the Super Six tournament? Without Lucian Bute involved, it's certainly not to find the best 168-pound fighter. LOL.

Personally, I thought the REAL point of the Super Six tournament was to bring attention to a division that was largely being ignored. I mean, prior to the announcement of the tournament, I don't think too many people were eager to see Mikkel Kessler or Carl Froch in any fights. Hell, even with them in the tournament, I'm still not excited too see them fight. Arthur Abraham was still just a middleweight who's biggest potential fight was Kelly Pavlik or Felix Sturm, but I don't remember too many of his fights being televised on HBO or Showtime. Andre Dirrell was considered to be dreadful to watch after so-so performances against Curtis Stevens and Anthony Hanshaw...not to mention, he was just coming off wins over Derrick Findley and Victor Oganov, so I don't recall the high demand to see him fight either. Allan Green is just a joke to begin with, but even the guy he replaced, Jermain Taylor, was 1-3 entering the tournament, so was he REALLY one of the top super middleweights out there?

I don't know, like I said, to me, it seems like the REAL point of Super Six tournament is to bring some much needed attention to a division that was being ignore and, in the process, have a star emerge from the bunch that HBO can snatch up and start throwing into PPV fights. I think a similar tournament at heavyweight can serve the exact same purpose and I don't think you need to put a bunch of young talent in it to do that. Personally, I think it's far more important to make sure you create good matchups in a tournament like that and if you do, I think a lot more people would tune in again to watch a division that is in need of some DIRE attention.
salvador
Hype,

I hear everything you're saying about the hws and I'd love to see some hw action myself, but not at the expense of crowding out better fights. And I'm not at all sold on Haye (though I think he said he broke his hand early against Valuev) and am quite sure that he'd get ko'd quickly by either Klit.

Boxing is just going through a low point right now (seriously, if Floyd is the biggest thing we've got we're fucked!!!!). All those guys you just mentioned would be perfect dominos for a young and up and coming hw we've never heard of and who probably doesn't exist. If someone came along right now he could make a lot of money at hw off of those middle aged names in the proposed hw super six.

Anyway, the idea of having those guys fight is fine, but ESPN 2 would be the venue. Let Showtime continue with its niche of putting on the semi-unknown but great fights. Let HBO do all the retreads and one sided star making sideshows.
thehype
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jun 22 2010, 10:32 PM) *
This ain't the World Cup. A semi round robin makes no sense to me. I said it in another thread and I understand HYPE's reasoning against it, but I still think these tournies should be single elim with a losers' bracket.


The reason why I personally like the points system is because it essentially offers fighters a knockout bonus. Like I said before, the main thing I do like about the tournament is the scoring and the fact that there's a reason for guys to actually go looking for a knockout. Andre Ward tried his best to KO Allan Green. Had that been a single elimination tournament fight, I think Ward would have been content with being WAY up on the scorecards and would have cruised those last few rounds. Because of the tournament scoring, however, he was actually doing his best to get the KO. I think that's EXTREMELY important when trying to generate interest in heavyweight boxing.
thehype
QUOTE (salvador @ Jun 23 2010, 12:12 PM) *
Hype,

I hear everything you're saying about the hws and I'd love to see some hw action myself, but not at the expense of crowding out better fights. And I'm not at all sold on Haye (though I think he said he broke his hand early against Valuev) and am quite sure that he'd get ko'd quickly by either Klit.

Boxing is just going through a low point right now (seriously, if Floyd is the biggest thing we've got we're fucked!!!!). All those guys you just mentioned would be perfect dominos for a young and up and coming hw we've never heard of and who probably doesn't exist. If someone came along right now he could make a lot of money at hw off of those middle aged names in the proposed hw super six.

Anyway, the idea of having those guys fight is fine, but ESPN 2 would be the venue. Let Showtime continue with its niche of putting on the semi-unknown but great fights. Let HBO do all the retreads and one sided star making sideshows.


ESPN has no budget for something like that, so that's out of the question.

And that's GREAT that you say all of those guys would be perfect dominos for a young up-and-coming heavyweight, but the problem is that young up-and-coming heavyweights won't fight them. I mean, Al Haymon FLAT OUT said that James Toney is too dangerous for Chris Arreola. Really? Are you fucking serious? I mean, we had Chris Arreola taking on Vitali Kiltschko for his first world title, and yet, he had NEVER fought ANY of those guys...not one. That's fucking sad. Same with Kevin Johnson. I mean, Kevin Johnson's biggest wins were Terry Smith and Bruce Seldon. Surely you don't think that prepared him for his title challenge, do you? That's part of the problem with the division...we got young, up-and-coming fighters right now who are challenging for titles and yet they haven't fought anyone. If that pattern continues, then boxing in general is fucked!

The ONLY reason why the heavyweight division is going through a "low point" is because they're letting it. There are fights that can be made...they're just not making them. There's no fucking way Chris Arreola should have come off that loss to Klitschko to fight Brian Minto. What the fuck did a fight with Brian Minto do to prepare him for Tomasz Adamek? There's absolutely no reason whatseover why Arreola hasn't fought James Toney yet...none! Hey, if Arreola is all that, then he should wipe the mat with Toney...or at the very least, get a decision, as well as some much needed experience.

Oh, and for the record, there haven't been THAT many great fights to come out of the Super Six tournament yet. There's been a couple good scraps, but great fights? I don't think so. LOL.
thehype
QUOTE (King Eugene @ Jun 23 2010, 01:19 AM) *
He's super green but throw in Deontay Wilder...if he's not to busy modeling for Everlast.


Wilder is too busy honing his skills against 300-pound bums to be considered for a tournament like this.

laugh.gif
thehype
QUOTE (jlupi @ Jun 23 2010, 11:33 AM) *
At first I thought hype just lost it, but I guess from an entertainment point of view it makes sense. Im still not sure tarver belongs in any tournament at heavy. He looked done at lhvy


That's great actually...then maybe Toney or any one of the aforementioned heavyweights will finally finish him off. Sadly though, because Dawson wasn't able to give him a severe enough beating, Tarver, like a lot of these older fighters, will fight on. The only reason why I even bothered to throw Tarver in it is because he made the announcement that he's coming to heavyweight. Okay, well if he's coming to heavyweight and really wants to make a run, in my opinion, a tournament like this is perfect for him as it will provide him with the right kind of tests at heavyweight. That's a lot better than him beating a guy like Monte Barrett and then expecting to be handed a big fight with one of the Klitschko brothers (kind of like David Haye was expecting). If Tarver has the goods, then he'll pass the test of the tournament...if not, then he'll get the crap beat out of him in the tournament. Either way, it sounds like a win-win to me. LOL.
BGv2.0
I would love to see a HW tournament simply because it would make these assholes ACTUALLY FIGHT ONE ANOTHER.....


BUT....despite that...that's really all it accomplishes IMHO.....at the end of the day you still have the 2 giant brothers holding the belts hostage...and no matter who comes up the winner of the deal....they still have that to go up against.

Most of them already had their shot..Peter/Rahman and FAILED....I see no reason why they would fare any better years later.

Some of them IMHO have no shot in hell in Toney/Tarver once in front of the giants...so it's like what's the point?

And then a few of them are underachievers of mammoth proportions....COUGH-BRIGGS-COUGH!

Povetkin even had a shot and let it go because of the steriod deal......which really makes me question his true desire.


I think this is just such a sorry lot of HWs.....NOTHING will make it any better.

If we all had a turd contest....and we all recognized the biggest, best, most impressive pick of the bunch.....COOL....But it's still a TURD!


The brothers just need to step in with the couple of HWs that have some pop that they still have not yet stepped in with....Tua and Briggs....and see what happens...and be done with it.

After those two...and maybe an argument for Haye.....there is ZERO out there for them. In effect in my mind, they could fight those 3 fights (mix and match any way you want) and with victories.....retire....because I don't see ANYTHING coming down the pike worth them hanging around for.

THEN.....if you think the division sucks ass now...wait till that takes place....

Despite my total dislike of Klit style dominance...at the very least you have gtwo guys recognized as the best. Once they are gone.....the playing field is so shitty and even....you are going to have absolute shit matches with shit results....no dominance of any kind....

It's going to be so damn UGLY....I really get a little sick thinking about it.


JLUVBABY
fighters id like to see in this tourney...

Tomasz Adamek
Alexander Povetkin
Odlanier Solis
Samuel Peter
Tony Thompson
James Toney

with povetkin probably getting a shot vs. wlad later this year i'd sub him for: shannon briggs
Jack 1000
QUOTE
Actually, I'm STILL not a big fan of the 168-pound tournament. The fights need to be a lot sooner...not spread out over the course of 2-3 years. Not to mention, I absolutely HATE the idea that a guy like Allan Green can walk into the tournament and get, not one, but TWO back-to-back title shots. That's HORRIBLE. Based off his performance against Ward, there's no way in hell he should be in line for another title shot, and yet, because of the way that the tournament is set up, he is.


Agree! I wonder what could be done to make it a one loss and your out thing for potential future tournaments? No fucking way Green deserves another title fight! If the Super Six, was a Super Eight, maybe this could be done better. I also agree that the current fights are spread out too much. Like Ben said, it's gonna take at least 1-2 years to finish this thing.

QUOTE
I don't think I'd call it pointless. I mean, what exactly is the point of the Super Six tournament? Without Lucian Bute involved, it's certainly not to find the best 168-pound fighter. LOL.


I agree! While I think that Ward could beat Bute because of his speed and quickness, it would be a good fight, because Bute wouldn't stink the place out like Green did. Bute would try and be competitive the whole fight.

Jack



salvador
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 23 2010, 11:25 AM) *
And that's GREAT that you say all of those guys would be perfect dominos for a young up-and-coming heavyweight, but the problem is that young up-and-coming heavyweights won't fight them. I mean, Al Haymon FLAT OUT said that James Toney is too dangerous for Chris Arreola. Really? Are you fucking serious?

Oh, and for the record, there haven't been THAT many great fights to come out of the Super Six tournament yet. There's been a couple good scraps, but great fights? I don't think so. LOL.


I just saw that Adamek is fighting Michael Grant in August (non-televised) which is kind of similar to Haye fighting Harrison. Neither of those fights are particularly interesting except for the obvious physical comparisons between Grant, Harrison and the Klits - so maybe there is some kind of grooming going on for those guys.

I agree that Toney is the very most perfect fight for an up and comer and that Arreola is worthless for avoiding a fight like that when, if he was half of the fighter he's been billed as, he should win on youth and power and would get unbeatable experience. It doesn't surprise me at all because I've never seen anything in Arreola that has ever made me think he was a serious contender.

Obviously there haven't been any great super 6 fights, but there have definitely been some interesting style matchups and 168 has never been more interesting.

Regarding Bute, I'd take Ward, Kessler, Abraham and maybe even Froch over him.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jun 23 2010, 01:25 PM) *
fighters id like to see in this tourney...

Tomasz Adamek
Alexander Povetkin
Odlanier Solis
Samuel Peter
Tony Thompson
James Toney

with povetkin probably getting a shot vs. wlad later this year i'd sub him for: shannon briggs

That's not a bad group, though I agree with Hype, Tony Thompson is just too plain boring. Replace him with David Tua and we've got a deal, lol.

How bout this group?

James Toney
Bernard Hopkpins
Antonio Tarver
Evander Holyfield
David Tua
Hasim Rahman

No we're not crowing the next great heavyweight champ, but those guys are all legends/big names who can all still fight a little. Lots of history between some of those fighters, a few interesting rematches, lots of fights people have been interested in seeing for a long time.

Stage One:
James Toney vs. Bernard Hopkins
Evander Holyfield vs. Antonio Tarver
David Tua vs. Hasim Rahman 3

Stage Two:
James Toney vs. David Tua
Evander Holyfield vs. Hasim Rahman 2
Bernard Hopkins vs. Antonio Tarver 2

Stage Three:
James Toney vs. Hasim Rahman 3
Evander Holyfield vs. Bernard Hopkins
David Tua vs. Antonio Tarver
Big Slim Sweet
OK wait, I realize I fucked up. I don't have Toney vs. Tarver in there. The trash talking there would be too perfect. My stages need some reorganization, but overall I think I'd enjoy this tournament.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Jun 23 2010, 04:39 PM) *
That's not a bad group, though I agree with Hype, Tony Thompson is just too plain boring. Replace him with David Tua and we've got a deal, lol.

How bout this group?

James Toney
Bernard Hopkpins
Antonio Tarver
Evander Holyfield
David Tua
Hasim Rahman

No we're not crowing the next great heavyweight champ, but those guys are all legends/big names who can all still fight a little. Lots of history between some of those fighters, a few interesting rematches, lots of fights people have been interested in seeing for a long time.

Stage One:
James Toney vs. Bernard Hopkins
Evander Holyfield vs. Antonio Tarver
David Tua vs. Hasim Rahman 3

Stage Two:
James Toney vs. David Tua
Evander Holyfield vs. Hasim Rahman 2
Bernard Hopkins vs. Antonio Tarver 2

Stage Three:
James Toney vs. Hasim Rahman 3
Evander Holyfield vs. Bernard Hopkins
David Tua vs. Antonio Tarver


I like ALL those fights.
True-Boxing-Fan
Props to Hype on his proposal, but i got to say I dont think it would draw in the casual fan. Out of the fights and fighters you mentioned, there is only one fight that kind of draws in the casual fan and thats Toney vs Tarver and thats because of the trash talk that would be there. Then i think why do we need to make a tournament to make that fight happen? Hype you have good intentions for the HW division, but man there is NOTHING you can do to get the casual fan to care about to HW's right now. The HW division is just plain crap. With the exception of maybe the Toney vs Tarver fight, the rest of the guys in your proposal are just garbage and are not worth the casual fans times. There are way more better fights out there in other divisions to draw in the casual fan. I know there is nothing like two big guys going at it, but right now the HW division is trash. None of the HW's truly like to mix it up(maybe Arreola does but man he's limited skill wise). Even if you gave the HW division a make over and put a tuxedo on it, it still would look like a bum division. There is nothing that can be done to generate interest in the HW's unless the Klits fight each other.
Fitz
I was open to the idea originally about the heavyweight tournament, but after speaking with my brother, he made good points about what's wrong with this. First off, the division is shit. Why would we want to point our spotlight to shit, the worst possible division.
Make no mistakes about it, it's by far the worst division and I don't understand the point trying to draw attention to something so dreadful. Even the tournament winner would probably be pushed to the Klitschko's and get dominated like a contender finalist would get dominated, or probably worse.
I think tournaments should be pushed to try attract quality divisions. There is nothing impressive about the heavyweight division, so putting the spotlight on that crap probably isn't a good idea, we probably want to draw as little attention possible to the heavyweights.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 27 2010, 06:47 PM) *
I was open to the idea originally about the heavyweight tournament, but after speaking with my brother, he made good points about what's wrong with this. First off, the division is shit. Why would we want to point our spotlight to shit, the worst possible division.
Make no mistakes about it, it's by far the worst division and I don't understand the point trying to draw attention to something so dreadful. Even the tournament winner would probably be pushed to the Klitschko's and get dominated like a contender finalist would get dominated, or probably worse.
I think tournaments should be pushed to try attract quality divisions. There is nothing impressive about the heavyweight division, so putting the spotlight on that crap probably isn't a good idea, we probably want to draw as little attention possible to the heavyweights.


It is shit and maybe this tournament would just be papering over the shit but I think it would garner some interest. With genuine bangers in there like Tua and say Briggs you maybe get a couple of spectacular knockouts, and Tarver and Toney would certainly add something in the trash talking stakes.

You're right Fitz the other option is to not do the tournament and not have anyone talking about the HW's. What the hell I say, can it get any worse? Tua, Briggs, Peter and Arreola, yeah probably only a prime Tua has any worth out of all of them but you can't tell me they won't be entertaining fights? I'd say Adamek also deserves a spot in the comp.

Sometimes I watch something on Friday Nights Fights and I get excited as hell, because the guys are evenly matched and ready to go to war. Sometimes as long as the quality is evenly matched it doesn't need to be premier platinum standard to have a great fight. I have loved some of Darnell Wilson's wars on FNF's over the years for exactly this reason and this tourney could produce some ding-a-ling type fights.

I would want to see it.
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