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Full Version: Money May v/s Sweet Pea (Primes)
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Run and Gun Game Calls
I know we get caught up in being prisoners of the moment. I dont thing mayweather is the best of all time by any means, but he is an all time great.

That being said, prime v/s prime, who ya got, mayweather or pernell?


I believe pernell was as fast if not faster than mayweather, and just as slick.

I see a very defensive technical boring battle tbh. But in his prime, I got sweetpea, who ya got?
Keith

Floyd. Similar fighters but I feel Floyd is just a tad more athletic, and physically stronger with a bit more pop in his punches.

Floyd is also legitimately bigger (5'8" to 5"6) with a significant reach/arm length advantage (72" and 26" vs. 69" and ?... assuming its shorter).

It's a relative wash in the boxing skills department so I'll base my prediction based on physical skills.... but it's still close.
Box in Hand
Gimme Floyd in one of the most boring tactical fights in history.
Run and Gun Game Calls
I dont think floyd has the pop of say Delahoya, and pernell beat a prime oscar, or let me rephrase that, got robbed out of a win over Oscar. And Oscar is also bigger than sweet pea. I dont think Floyds power is as great as many think. He does his damage with the amout of punches he lands, and lets be truthful he wouldnt beat on pernell the way he does many opponents. So I dont really think the power would be an issue. Now the reach with Floyds speed could be a difficult task for to to get around. At the same time the slickness of pernell is something floyd has never experienced, how would floyd react to maybe being the slower fighter in a boxing match for once?

heck he already beat Floyds uncle roger, lol

the win over Azumah Nelson makes me believe the size wouldnt really be an issue

He also thunped Julio cezar chavez, and buddy mcgirt, rivera, freddie pendleton and greg haugan

That is a great resume.

To me I just think he was a little better than floyd, but man wouldnt the press conferances be fun to watch
jvo1800
i definitely dont think this would be a action packed fight, but if i had to pick one i would go with Floyd. They basically share the same type of skill but in their prime i still think Floyd was just a lil quicker. The biggest edge i give Floyd in this fight is his ability to counter punch and i think that would be the deciding factor in the whole fight just based on how slick Pernell was. Floyd knows how to make u think before u punch because he makes u pay everytime u miss and im not sayin Pernell didnt do the same, im just sayin he didnt do it like Floyd.
Mean Mister Mustard
Mayweather Jr is an underrated puncher. He's not in the Cory Spinks or Winky Wright department. When he hits guys, they pay attention. Do not downgrade his power because he was unable to stop JMM or Mosley. Those two guys are extra tough. Against Whitaker he would have the power advantage.

I also do not believe this fight would be fought at a distance. I think that after both guys realize they cannot decisevely outbox the other, they will start to throw more punches and enagage in some inside fighting. We have seen Mayweather do so against Judah and Corley and to a lesser extent against Mosley. Whitaker fought Chavez body blow for body blow and also knew how to fight inside the pocket. I actually think it would be a very entertaining fight. I would assume the decision would go to Mayweather because his punches are flashier and they would get the attention of the judges more than Whitaker's blows. The fight though, could go wither way.
D-MARV
This is a really tough fight to call. A few years ago, I probably would have taken "Sweet Pea" without hesitation but Floyd is more versatile than Sweet Pea. I think Floyd's ability to adapt to styles would have been the difference in this bout. Both fighters had superior hand speed and great defenses BUT Floyd has the edge in the ability to make adjustments as the fight rolled along. I think this fight would be a tactical fight but surprisingly entertaining (especially to those who find the science entertaining). I think Floyd squeezes out a close but clear unanimous decision. 116-112
jlupi
not sure who Id pick head to head.


I have to rate PW do to better competition
Run and Gun Game Calls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVPXllSAJ6g

Just a quick reminder of what sweet pea was
Fitz
I would give the edge to Whitaker. He could hang with Mayweather in the skill department, but to me his more willingness to fight would give him the edge. Also add that he is a southpaw, so Mayweather's natural defence wouldn't work as well as it does against the typical righty.
I think it would be a close fight, but I lean towards Whitaker. Whitaker is what Mayweather should have been more like.
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 28 2010, 09:05 PM) *
I would give the edge to Whitaker. He could hang with Mayweather in the skill department, but to me his more willingness to fight would give him the edge. Also add that he is a southpaw, so Mayweather's natural defence wouldn't work as well as it does against the typical righty.
I think it would be a close fight, but I lean towards Whitaker. Whitaker is what Mayweather should have been more like.



I agree completely fitz
Box in Hand
Sweet Pea didn't have enough power 2 hurt Floyd so that's what makes me think he loses this snore fest.
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Jun 28 2010, 10:29 PM) *
Sweet Pea didn't have enough power 2 hurt Floyd so that's what makes me think he loses this snore fest.




Sweetpeas power is very underrated, ask DeLaHoya ho hard pernell can pop. But Like mayweather he would hurt you the coast and show off to win an easy decision.
Box in Hand
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Jun 28 2010, 07:57 PM) *
Sweetpeas power is very underrated, ask DeLaHoya ho hard pernell can pop. But Like mayweather he would hurt you the coast and show off to win an easy decision.


I remember the De la Hoya Sweet Pea fight like it was yesterday and one fight doesn't prove the fact the Sweet Pea's biggest assets were speed and defense. He didn't have much power cause he rarely sat down on his punches and he wouldn't sit down on his punches against Floyd.
kidbazooka1
Give me Whitaker by the closest of split decisions. Pea was just a little slicker and in his prime.
JLUVBABY
i cant go no other way than pernell in this fight... whitaker in his prime was slicker than mayweather and was virtually impossible to hit... he deserved the fight vs dela hoya (he was passed his best for this fight as well) really beat rameriz in their first fight (he was robbed in that one) and really never lost a fight till he fought felix trinidad when he was past his fighting best... as good as mayweather is pernell was better... ive always felt his legacy was under rated and mostly forgotten because he never crossed over... but in his prime, at lightweight, he's quite possibly in my opinion 1 or 2 greatest of all times... no worse than 3 tho i find it hard to find 2 fighters in prime years at lightweight that beat him for sure... not even sure prime duran could hit him enough to beat him... just my opinion on the guy...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Jun 28 2010, 08:09 PM) *
I remember the De la Hoya Sweet Pea fight like it was yesterday and one fight doesn't prove the fact the Sweet Pea's biggest assets were speed and defense. He didn't have much power cause he rarely sat down on his punches and he wouldn't sit down on his punches against Floyd.


the sweet pea that fought hoya was def. passed his prime... sweet pea had power when it was ness... check out his record... in the rematch he 1 punch ko'd rameriz in one round and cant think of the cubans name but in a fight, also when he was on the slide the cubanhad sweet pea beat and pernell pulled that win out with a white wash of a knockout... like i said in my last post pernell whitakers career will be under rated but he is most def an all time top 10 great in my book...
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jun 28 2010, 09:19 PM) *
the sweet pea that fought hoya was def. passed his prime... sweet pea had power when it was ness... check out his record... in the rematch he 1 punch ko'd rameriz in one round and cant think of the cubans name but in a fight, also when he was on the slide the cubanhad sweet pea beat and pernell pulled that win out with a white wash of a knockout... like i said in my last post pernell whitakers career will be under rated but he is most def an all time top 10 great in my book...


Are you reffering to Jose Luis Ramirez?
SmartyBeardo
Sweet Pea would out-quick and outwork PBF. And I completely disagree with the notion that it would be boring.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Jun 28 2010, 09:53 PM) *
Are you reffering to Jose Luis Ramirez?



mmm... i know where you going.. lol... i was thinking bout the ko of juan nazario.. lol... pernell beat rameriz in a dec in the rematch...
Mean Mister Mustard
Well he did outbox Ramirez for 12 rounds in the rematch, sometimes that's the same thing as knocking a guy out in 1 round. I remember a debate a few years ago where some posters were claiming Tarver's domination of Montell Griffin was just as good as Jone's amazing Round 1 KO in the rematch.
Run and Gun Game Calls
As much as I dislike him, lets give some credit to floyd. The fact that he is being mentioned in the same breath with Whitaker, and Duran, and Leonard says alot about the fighter he is. Although dislike aside, I would pick all 3 over him
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Jun 28 2010, 09:53 PM) *
Are you reffering to Jose Luis Ramirez?


The cuban guy was Diobyles Hurtado.
Pea stopped him with a brutal TKO in the 11th rd after being down twice i believe.
Keith
I would also like to add that Floyd has a better chin.

As I said earlier, I believe Floyd to have the advantage over Whitaker in every physical category.

Maxy
I'd definitely go with Whitaker but it's a very hard fight to call. For me Mayweather has a slight speed advantage but not enough to make much of a difference. Pernell's jab is better than Floyds and he is also better at fighting close in, offsetting Floyds height and reach advantage. Pernell had the better work rate and therefore he would be the busier fighter which I see edging him to a close but unanimous decision. Comparing match-ups isn't a great way to judge a fight but whilst Pernell fought and beat,imo, a younger faster, better De La Hoya, Floyd, although he won, boxed a slower older, past prime version of De La Hoya. Pernell also puts his combinations together better and I think he's a better counter puncher. Couldn't and wouldn't ever pick against Pernell.
jlupi
I would also like to add that Floyd has a better chin.
>>

why would you think that? he has been wobbled by a couple guys. pea had a great chin and had better defense
The CEO
We talked about this one in the Classic section not too long ago...and this should probably be moved there...but I'll let it hang here for now...

I'll paraphrase some of what I said then...


I believe Mayweather beats Whitaker 7, 8 times out of 10...mainly based on him having the purer Boxing skills and better accuracy...

Pea would be doin' all his flashy duckin' and dodgin' while Mayweather would be gettin' the more tangible, offensive work done...


Yep...give me The Pure over The Unconventional.
Maxy
QUOTE (The CEO @ Jun 29 2010, 12:19 PM) *
We talked about this one in the Classic section not too long ago...and this should probably be moved there...but I'll let it hang here for now...

I'll paraphrase some of what I said then...


I believe Mayweather beats Whitaker 7, 8 times out of 10...mainly based on him having the purer Boxing skills and better accuracy...

Pea would be doin' all his flashy duckin' and dodgin' while Mayweather would be gettin' the more tangible, offensive work done...


Yep...give me The Pure over The Unconventional.


Thing is though, Pea wasn't just all about the flashy duckin' and dodgin' and as far as boxing skills go he had a better jab than Mayweather. He was also a busier fighter than Mayweather. I know we'll never agree because you've already claimed in the past that Whitaker is overrated. Right now I'd say your boy Floyd is overrated but it's just differing opinions I guess.
The CEO
QUOTE (Maxy @ Jun 29 2010, 12:29 PM) *
Thing is though, Pea wasn't just all about the flashy duckin' and dodgin' and as far as boxing skills go he had a better jab than Mayweather. He was also a busier fighter than Mayweather. I know we'll never agree because you've already claimed in the past that Whitaker is overrated. Right now I'd say your boy Floyd is overrated but it's just differing opinions I guess.


and you claimed that Pea is one of, if not your favorite, boxer of all time...Mayweather ain't my boy in that manner...people who feel that strongly about a fighter are usually more biased than critics...

Mayweather throws overall straighter/better punches than Whitaker and has the noticeably better +/- (Hit/Not Get Hit) ratio...
JD
I will take Whitaker...partially because of the southpaw factor, and partially because he was better defensively in my view.

Interesting fight that Floyd ends up being more aggressive in.
Keith
QUOTE (jlupi @ Jun 29 2010, 12:11 PM) *
I would also like to add that Floyd has a better chin.
>>

why would you think that? he has been wobbled by a couple guys. pea had a great chin and had better defense


Whitaker suffered knock downs against Hurtado, Mayweather, Mcgirt, Rivera, Trinidad, and Vazquez if my research serves me correctly.

Maywether was knocked down by Hernandez and Judah (bad non call imo).

I mean... I think the two lists speak for themselves. I'm not counting how many times a guy's been wobbled or looked hurt because that just gets too confusing.

I think we have to split hairs when comparing these two fighters and the two lists are substantially different. For being a such a defensive wizard, Sweat Pea sure did have a poor habit of touching the canvas.
neophyte7
Mayweather went down on his own against Hernandez I recall from the pain of a broken hand... The Judah knockdown was legit but not a real knockdown from a chin shot...

Mayweather has a sturdy chin and I have seen him touched on the chin several times. You don't go 41 and 0 and not have a good chin... even with his defense Mayweather has been decked. His recuperative powers are great.

Sweet peas d was based upon instinct and athletic ability, mayweather has the same but employs more tact and technique. He is better defensively in my book.
D-MARV
Mayweather took a flush shot on the chin from Shane Mosley.... Floyd has a DAMN good chin. I haven't seen too many full Whitaker fights to decide who had the better chin. From what I have seen, Sweet Pea had a pretty solid chin as well.

Keith
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jun 29 2010, 10:37 PM) *
Mayweather took a flush shot on the chin from Shane Mosley.... Floyd has a DAMN good chin.


Thats a good point of reference to compare their beards since it's the most trouble we have ever seen Floyd in. I asked myself "would that same shot from Mosley put Whitaker on the canvas?". I decided it would.

QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jun 29 2010, 10:37 PM) *
I haven't seen too many full Whitaker fights to decide who had the better chin. From what I have seen, Sweet Pea had a pretty solid chin as well.


He did have a good chin. Good but not great. I'm not sure Floyds chin is great... but its better then good.
King Eugene
One thing I noticed is Floyd took the shot better on the chin(first wobble) than he did the shot on the ear(second wobble) against Mosley. Floyd doesn't have the best chin but he has the best recovery time I've ever seen. Chalk that up to his conditioning.

Floyd went down to Chavez cause of his hand, glove touched the ground against Judah, and can be disputed whether or not he was dropped by Hernandez but I think it was cause he was stepped on. Oh well...

Floyd beats him in my opinion off high guard pressure and quick shots alone. Sweat Pea usually got stronger down the stretch but so does Floyd. He would adjust to Sweat Peas style and wouldn't be swinging wild and letting Whitaker duck and dodge all of his shots. I think Floyd would make it an close range inside fight to stop Whitaker from doing work and spinning out left like he was famous for doing.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JD @ Jun 29 2010, 12:47 PM) *
I will take Whitaker...partially because of the southpaw factor, and partially because he was better defensively in my view.

Interesting fight that Floyd ends up being more aggressive in.


Exactly what I was thinking. I just can not see Floyd beating Whitaker, and I am talking at each others best. Sure we will never know and we all have different views, but thats just the way I see it.


Also, its not fair to bring up fights that were later in Peas career to use as reference and past his prime and above his best fighting weight. If we are talking prime and best weight, give me Pernell by competative unanimous decision.
RiverSide
I like Pea in this one.

I dont think he would give Floyd enough counter-punching opportunities to win.
Keith
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jun 30 2010, 02:40 AM) *
Also, its not fair to bring up fights that were later in Peas career to use as reference and past his prime and above his best fighting weight. If we are talking prime and best weight, give me Pernell by competative unanimous decision.


Which fights are you talking about as being past his prime?

For me, I'll give him a pass on his 3 fights after DLH. He was 33 when he fought DLH and thats not exactly ancient even in 97" (Floyd is 33 right now). He was a 40-1 champion, looked pretty darn good in that fight and some believe he won it... so I still feel you count it as "prime".

If we're literally saying prime vs. prime (the short period of time when these fighters are at the very top of their game) then we should identify what series of fights Sweat Pea was at his prime then. Imo, Floyd's still is and has been in his prime for a very long time.
Maxy
Disagree, Pernell was past his best when he boxed De La Hoya.

This fantasy fight is always going to separate opinions, no doubt about it but Whitaker sought out the best challenges and took them all on. As I've said, he had the better jab, was a southpaw (which definitely gives him an advantage against Floyd), and he was a busier fighter than Floyd. Pernell wouldn't need to adapt to Floyd like Floyd would need rounds to adapt to Pernell. I take Pernell's unconventional defense over Floyd's brilliant but more conventional defense.

Whitaker also proved that if the shit was going bad he could turn into a beast of a fighter. Mayweather hasn't faced adversity and his level of opposition is not as strong as Whitakers. No way.

So Pernell beats Floyd but Floyd is a great fighter.
Keith
QUOTE (Maxy @ Jun 30 2010, 10:35 AM) *
Disagree, Pernell was past his best when he boxed De La Hoya.


I dont really disagree with you. I dont think the Whitaker that fought DLH at 33 was as good as the Whitaker that fought Chavez 4 years earlier.

... but it's really close.

Close enough that you can't "throw it out the window" and not look at the fight. It's borderline imo. I think we have to remember there were 2 fighters in the ring that night and that was a damn good DLH that Whitaker fought on even terms.
neophyte7
QUOTE (Maxy @ Jun 30 2010, 10:35 AM) *
Disagree, Pernell was past his best when he boxed De La Hoya.

This fantasy fight is always going to separate opinions, no doubt about it but Whitaker sought out the best challenges and took them all on. As I've said, he had the better jab, was a southpaw (which definitely gives him an advantage against Floyd), and he was a busier fighter than Floyd. Pernell wouldn't need to adapt to Floyd like Floyd would need rounds to adapt to Pernell. I take Pernell's unconventional defense over Floyd's brilliant but more conventional defense.

Whitaker also proved that if the shit was going bad he could turn into a beast of a fighter. Mayweather hasn't faced adversity and his level of opposition is not as strong as Whitakers. No way.

So Pernell beats Floyd but Floyd is a great fighter.


Floyd no adversity? reference Castillo I... He had to adjust to early roughhousing of the undefeated HATTON. He was rocked by Corley early,He had to adjust to the aggressive Judah. He smoked a p4p fighter after a 2 year lay off, and has had to deal with family controversy his whole career... Floyd has faced much adversity and handles it all with an uncanny mastery. I see him as a more complete fighter than Sweet Pea... On Mayweather's worse night a guy like Hurtado does not touch him. Whitaker is not better than Mayweather in any area... I don't think his jab is better than Mayweather either. But he is better than mayweather at doing Crack... that he is the master of... LMAO I wonder which fights Whitaker smoked the PIPE IN.. LMAO
neophyte7
QUOTE (Maxy @ Jun 30 2010, 10:35 AM) *
Disagree, Pernell was past his best when he boxed De La Hoya.

This fantasy fight is always going to separate opinions, no doubt about it but Whitaker sought out the best challenges and took them all on. As I've said, he had the better jab, was a southpaw (which definitely gives him an advantage against Floyd), and he was a busier fighter than Floyd. Pernell wouldn't need to adapt to Floyd like Floyd would need rounds to adapt to Pernell. I take Pernell's unconventional defense over Floyd's brilliant but more conventional defense.

Whitaker also proved that if the shit was going bad he could turn into a beast of a fighter. Mayweather hasn't faced adversity and his level of opposition is not as strong as Whitakers. No way.

So Pernell beats Floyd but Floyd is a great fighter.


Floyd no adversity? reference Castillo I... He had to adjust to early roughhousing of the undefeated HATTON. He was rocked by Corley early,He had to adjust to the aggressive Judah. He smoked a p4p fighter after a 2 year lay off, and has had to deal with family controversy his whole career... Floyd has faced much adversity and handles it all with an uncanny mastery. I see him as a more complete fighter than Sweet Pea... On Mayweather's worse night a guy like Hurtado does not touch him. Whitaker is not better than Mayweather in any area... I don't think his jab is better than Mayweather either. But he is better than mayweather at doing Crack... that he is the master of... LMAO I wonder which fights Whitaker smoked the PIPE IN.. LMAO
Keith
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jun 30 2010, 12:25 PM) *
But he is better than mayweather at doing Crack... that he is the master of... LMAO I wonder which fights Whitaker smoked the PIPE IN.. LMAO


laugh.gif I was wondering when someone would bring this up.
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jun 30 2010, 03:25 PM) *
But he is better than mayweather at doing Crack... that he is the master of... LMAO I wonder which fights Whitaker smoked the PIPE IN.. LMAO



Wouldnt be suprised to see floyd smoking mannys pole if the fight gets signed, when manny makes floyd his bitch!!!! LMAO
Maxy
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jun 30 2010, 12:25 PM) *
Floyd no adversity? reference Castillo I... He had to adjust to early roughhousing of the undefeated HATTON. He was rocked by Corley early,He had to adjust to the aggressive Judah. He smoked a p4p fighter after a 2 year lay off, and has had to deal with family controversy his whole career... Floyd has faced much adversity and handles it all with an uncanny mastery. I see him as a more complete fighter than Sweet Pea... On Mayweather's worse night a guy like Hurtado does not touch him. Whitaker is not better than Mayweather in any area... I don't think his jab is better than Mayweather either. But he is better than mayweather at doing Crack... that he is the master of... LMAO I wonder which fights Whitaker smoked the PIPE IN.. LMAO


Those names you just mentioned only go to high-light the fact that Mayweather boxed lesser opposition than Whitaker. Oh and Whitakers jab is a shit load better than Floyds.
neophyte7
Hurtado is great opposition... I guess that is why he was cracking P's crackhead before he got him out of there... LMAO


Whitaker- azumah nelson
buddy mgirt
Chavez
Trinidad
Delahoya
Jose Luis Ramirez*****

PBF -Genaro Hernandez
castillo 2x
Coralles
Judah
Mosley
DLH at 154
There is no great disparity in opposition
Maxy
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jun 30 2010, 02:14 PM) *
There is no great disparity in opposition


In your opinion.

Fair enough.
Lil-lightsout
[quote name='Keith' date='Jun 30 2010, 09:28 AM' post='491831']
Which fights are you talking about as being past his prime?

For me, I'll give him a pass on his 3 fights after DLH. He was 33 when he fought DLH and thats not exactly ancient even in 97" (Floyd is 33 right now). He was a 40-1 champion, looked pretty darn good in that fight and some believe he won it... so I still feel you count it as "prime".

/quote]

Problem is you can not go by ages either. Look how shot Meldrick Taylor was at a young age, and countless others that were shot in there late 20's or early 30's. Pernell that fought Oscar was no where near his prime or best weight. And sure today's Floyd still looks awesome, and sure you could say him at 33yrs could beat Pea at his 33yrs old. Maybe? You are also comparing an older Whitaker who fought against an awesome young great fighter in Oscar full of desire and energy, to a fighter in Floyd who fought an old version Mosley who offered little resistance and less desire to win. Not trying to make excuses, cause yes Floyd still does look awesome.

Sure Whitaker looked decent against Oscar that night, I had it a very close fight, honestly I figured Oscar would get the nod cause of who he was and seemed to be the busier fighter. But it still was not Pernell's best fighting days.

Anyway, give me the Whitaker that fought Jose Luis Ramirez in the rematch over any lightweight ever. THAT Whitaker against the Floyd that whipped Corrales would be an amazing fight. And anyone saying it would be a boring fight is a retard and does not appreciate two of the best pure boxers ever to live.

neophyte7
the only people saying this fight would be boring are those type people who don't appreciate pure pugilism. Slugger infatuated...
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