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D-MARV
Romulus9
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 9 2010, 07:17 PM) *



+1
Keith

Superb video... but Lewis is not the greatest HW of all time.

D-MARV
QUOTE (Keith @ Jul 9 2010, 08:38 PM) *
Superb video... but Lewis is not the greatest HW of all time.

First of all, it's "Louis", secondly, who would you put above him?
Keith
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 9 2010, 08:47 PM) *
First of all, it's "Louis", secondly, who would you put above him?


I apologize for incorrectly writing the good lords name. laugh.gif

Ali before prison.

D-MARV
QUOTE (Keith @ Jul 9 2010, 08:50 PM) *
I apologize for incorrectly writing the good lords name. laugh.gif

Ali before prison.

Gotcha... I won't argue with that.
Keith
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 9 2010, 08:57 PM) *
Gotcha... I won't argue with that.


I don't think that Ali loses to any of the great HW's.

Just my opinion though...
kidbazooka1
My vote goes to Louis.
Lil-lightsout
Valuev wipes the floor with Ali and Louis on the same night.
HaydelHammer
great vid.

joe is one of my all time fav.

ali pre prison was damn near untouchable.
D-MARV
Personally, I feel that Louis KO's a Pre Prison Ali!
BigG
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Foreman
5. Lewis
6. Marciano
7. Frazier
8. Holyfield
9. Tyson
10. Johnson
King Eugene
Ali pre-prison and Joe wouldn't have made it the distance with him either. To be honest I'd give Frazier a damn good shot at beating Louis.
neophyte7
lmao...flatfooted slugger joe louis at barely 200 pounds would have been ko visciously in cleveland williams type fashion... by ali pre prison.
SENTRAL
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jul 10 2010, 01:14 AM) *
lmao...flatfooted slugger joe louis at barely 200 pounds would have been ko visciously in cleveland williams type fashion... by ali pre prison.


Yep, I would pick the pre prison Ali to beat everyone but your dismissive quote above sounds as if you dont rate the great Louis?

King Eugene
That right hand was mean though. The timing was perfect and it was so fast it would snap your neck.
D-MARV
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jul 10 2010, 02:14 AM) *
lmao...flatfooted slugger joe louis at barely 200 pounds would have been ko visciously in cleveland williams type fashion... by ali pre prison.

Is it becuase Ali was with the Nation? LOL


Henry Cooper put Ali flat on his back and nearly out... Pre Prison Ali WOULDN"T have recovered from a Joe Louis Left hook that landed flush on his jaw.
Keith

If you notice from the Louis highlight reel that opened the thread....

Louis landed all those highlight reel punches against guys that stood still right in front of him.

I'm just saying... pre-incarciration Ali would of never stood still against Louis. It's certainly possible that he lands some vicious shots and gets the better of Ali.

I just don't think so... but even if he did, post-incarciration Ali showed he could take a beating and still win fights.

I see Ali getting a big lead on the cards and even when Louis could force Ali to fight, I'm not sure Ali would crumble the way Louis would need for him to win.
neophyte7
Louis is great ... one of the top 5 greatest ever at anyweight and I am not denying he could hurt Ali, yet Ali had a greater chin... movement, and maybe not better power but enough power and speed.. He would matador the fuck out of joe Louis who would be out gunned even in the size department. ALI by viscious Cleveland William type KO about 15-20 unanswered shots while Joe crumbles to the canvas...
King Eugene
QUOTE (Keith @ Jul 10 2010, 09:49 AM) *
If you notice from the Louis highlight reel that opened the thread....

Louis landed all those highlight reel punches against guys that stood still right in front of him.

I'm just saying... pre-incarciration Ali would of never stood still against Louis. It's certainly possible that he lands some vicious shots and gets the better of Ali.


I just don't think so... but even if he did, post-incarciration Ali showed he could take a beating and still win fights.

I see Ali getting a big lead on the cards and even when Louis could force Ali to fight, I'm not sure Ali would crumble the way Louis would need for him to win.

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm not so sure he could time Ali to be able to land one of those viscious blows. Ali would have stayed out of reach after he worked. He would have frustrated the hell out of Joe.
Romulus9
QUOTE (King Eugene @ Jul 10 2010, 04:58 PM) *
Exactly what I was thinking. I'm not so sure he could time Ali to be able to land one of those viscious blows. Ali would have stayed out of reach after he worked. He would have frustrated the hell out of Joe.



If Doug Jones and Henry Cooper got to Ali (Clay at the time, of course), Joe would too.
D-MARV
I have studied Ali up and down for 10 years now. He's my ALL Time Favorite... In saying this, Ali (even a pre prison Ali) had some fight in him and there would come a point inn the fight where Ali and Louis traded punches. I suggest you guys go back and watch Ali's fights with Doug Jones and Henry Cooper. Ali was tagged good and often in both fights by fighters whom were not on the level of Joe Louis. If Ali and Louis fought, Ali would have INDEED been tagged and HURT at some point. Ali wins if he can hold up BUT keep in mind that Louis hit like a fucking Mack Truck and certainly harder than Jones and Cooper. Ali was very capable of beating Joe Louis, I just feel that the "older" version of Ali would have had a better shot.
Romulus9
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 10 2010, 05:17 PM) *
I have studied Ali up and down for 10 years now. He's my ALL Time Favorite... In saying this, Ali (even a pre prison Ali) had some fight in him and there would come a point inn the fight where Ali and Louis traded punches. I suggest you guys go back and watch Ali's fights with Doug Jones and Henry Cooper. Ali was tagged good and often in both fights by fighters whom were not on the level of Joe Louis. If Ali and Louis fought, Ali would have INDEED been tagged and HURT at some point. Ali wins if he can hold up BUT keep in mind that Louis hit like a fucking Mack Truck and certainly harder than Jones and Cooper. Ali was very capable of beating Joe Louis, I just feel that the "older" version of Ali would have had a better shot.


Up to what point?

Any Ali after Manila gets stopped BRUTALLY by Louis. I mean Julian Jackson-Buster Drayton brutal.
The CEO
I got it Ali, Louis, Holmes in order of Heavyweight Greatness...but I can see each of them beating the other two at their bests...

If pressed?...I'd probably go Ali over Louis, Louis over Holmes, and Holmes over Ali...

D-MARV
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jul 10 2010, 06:14 PM) *
Up to what point?

Any Ali after Manila gets stopped BRUTALLY by Louis. I mean Julian Jackson-Buster Drayton brutal.

Oh I disagree...

Older Ali, appears to have a stronger chin then the younger version. The worst I seen Ali hurt was in his younger days.
GARCIA
JAMES "LIGHTS OUT" TONEY BABY!
GIVE HIM THE KLITSCHKO SISTERS!
JonnyBlaze
Joe Louis hands down was/is the best ever..The version of Louis that beat Schmeling would beat any heavy in history..He said it himself that he was never more ready for a fight than for the 2nd Schmeling fight..
D-MARV
QUOTE (GARCIA @ Jul 13 2010, 03:34 AM) *
JAMES "LIGHTS OUT" TONEY BABY!
GIVE HIM THE KLITSCHKO SISTERS!

Please don't say that... Toney owes Oquendo a rematch before I care to see him in any more fights.
JLUVBABY
im sure most wont agree but i've always felt holmes status amongst the greats was kinda under appreciated due to the level of opp he had during his reign... but i think he had the tools to contend with if not beat all the greats that came before and after him in his prime... larry holmes could easily be the greatest but you'll never hear his name spoken with the likes of ali and louis... i've always felt one measuring stick that should be thought of when deciding the greatness of a fighter was longevity in the sport... holmes was a legit threat as a contender to any of the champs well into his 40's.. neither ali nor louis can say that...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 13 2010, 08:26 AM) *
Please don't say that... Toney owes Oquendo a rematch before I care to see him in any more fights.



lol... yezzir!!!!
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (BigG @ Jul 10 2010, 12:47 AM) *
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Foreman
5. Lewis
6. Marciano
7. Frazier
8. Holyfield
9. Tyson
10. Johnson



1. Ali

2. louis

3. holmes

4. marciano

5. frasier

6. tyson

7. holyfield

8. dempsey

9. patterson

10. forman

I omitted lennox lewis for two reasons, i consider him a superheavyweight and its not really fair to compair him to past champions. Hell with their size alone the klits could jab and clintch some of the all time greats to a decision. he is kinda like brock lesner in mma, very big but very average. (although lewis has huge power.) The second reason i ommited him was being ko'd twice by one punch in his prime.
Fitz
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Jul 14 2010, 06:15 AM) *
I omitted lennox lewis for two reasons, i consider him a superheavyweight and its not really fair to compair him to past champions. Hell with their size alone the klits could jab and clintch some of the all time greats to a decision. he is kinda like brock lesner in mma, very big but very average. (although lewis has huge power.) The second reason i ommited him was being ko'd twice by one punch in his prime.


It's your top 10. But IMO, very poor reasons to exclude someone. Especially the first one. He is a heavyweight, he gets rated as a heavyweight.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 13 2010, 11:08 PM) *
It's your top 10. But IMO, very poor reasons to exclude someone. Especially the first one. He is a heavyweight, he gets rated as a heavyweight.


Agreed. I might also add how did Patterson make the top 10 and no place for Jack Johnson?

As far as weights go, yeah it's no secret that some of the old timers would end up fighting in the CW or even LHW division these days. All you can do in this instance is look at how they dominated the division in the era in which they fought. In this case Lewis would piss into the top 10.

The way humans are growing and evolving, give it another 100 years the standard weight for a HW will be 400 pounds. Valuev is ahead of his time. laugh.gif
Run and Gun Game Calls
Jack Johnson was a ground breaker, but not an all time great fighter in my opinion, two completely differant things
Warlord
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Jul 14 2010, 02:19 AM) *
Jack Johnson was a ground breaker, but not an all time great fighter in my opinion, two completely differant things

Amen. I love Johnson, absolutely fucking LOVE his personality. But I think people ranking him that high (in the top 10) are doing so because of the great documentary Unforgivable Blackness. Before that, I NEVER saw anyone ranking him in the top 10. Now it's like a fucking prerequisite.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Jul 14 2010, 01:19 AM) *
Jack Johnson was a ground breaker, but not an all time great fighter in my opinion, two completely differant things


Part of my criteria is how to did a guy dominate his division when he fought? Johnson could only fight who they put in front of him. Ultra avoided he had to travel all the way to Australia to get a shot at the title. Now these are the days when Australia was a really long way away. Talk about trying to duck a guy!!

You might argue that he fought in a weak HW divison, but then so did Tyson and he did what Tyson also did, put opponents away impressively. I think Johnson was certainly a speciman for the times and a helluva more impressive champ than say Floyd Patterson.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Warlord @ Jul 14 2010, 01:31 AM) *
Amen. I love Johnson, absolutely fucking LOVE his personality. But I think people ranking him that high (in the top 10) are doing so because of the great documentary Unforgivable Blackness. Before that, I NEVER saw anyone ranking him in the top 10. Now it's like a fucking prerequisite.


I've been meaning to check that doco out. Cheers for the reminder.
Warlord
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jul 14 2010, 01:36 AM) *
Part of my criteria is how to did a guy dominate his division when he fought? Johnson could only fight who they put in front of him. Ultra avoided he had to travel all the way to Australia to get a shot at the title. Now these are the days when Australia was a really long way away. Talk about trying to duck a guy!!

You might argue that he fought in a weak HW divison, but then so did Tyson and he did what Tyson also did, put opponents away impressively. I think Johnson was certainly a speciman for the times and a helluva more impressive champ than say Floyd Patterson.

Actually, Johnson ducked a number of highly-rated black contenders after becoming champion. Not to diminish Johnson, because I love the guy to death, but I really do think he's being over-rated by certain segments of the boxing community.
neophyte7
Jack Johnson belongs there in the list. MIKE TYSON'S pathetic ass belongs no where near it...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Warlord @ Jul 14 2010, 01:43 AM) *
Actually, Johnson ducked a number of highly-rated black contenders after becoming champion. Not to diminish Johnson, because I love the guy to death, but I really do think he's being over-rated by certain segments of the boxing community.


johnson fought a number of the most highly ranked black fighters of his time (joe jeanette, sam mcvae and peter jackson to name a few of them that are actually listed on his record)... but if he missed a few it was because that wasnt where the real money is... but if you look at it from that angle then jack dempseys name shouldnt be mentioned with the all time great either... he ducked harry willis who remained number one contender for several years... as for jack johnson i wouldnt say he's considered great because of his ground breaking.. his ground breaking was the biggest albatross a man could have ever asked for... the dude was miserable and most believe had to wind up selling his title to go back to living a regular life... in his prime, up until the time of his reign, there was no better heavyweight period all times... and his skill level for that period in time i would think has him beating some other all time greats.... its rumored he actually fought and beat dempsey during the 20's in some unsanctioned fights and it is fact that he fought exebitions through the 1930's when he was an old man... he beat the best of his time, what more can be asked of the guy?... to say jack johnson is not a great in my opinion is like calling ali or joe louis great but ranking them in the second teir of great fighters 5-10... if johnson isnt a great fighter than for sure their are others considered great fighters that need to be re-evaluated... dempsey, marciano, louis to a certain extent and i'll explain why i say that... prime for prime jersey joe walcott was every bit as good and skilled as louis... walcotts just came later in his career... i could go on and on but its a disgrace to the guy to not put him amongst the immortals of the division and my opinion has nothing to do with a documentary... look up old time ring editor nat fletcher and see what his opinion of the guy was... i dont usually have much to say bout certain comments but thats a slap in a great fighters face to say he dont belong amongst the all time best heavies... like i said he belongs way before a marciano or a dempsey or a tyson or a holyfield or a guy like lennox lewis.... in his prime, for his time, he was damn near an innovator of the sport... him and a guy by the name of joe gans, a light weight that i guess isnt great either, just a ground breaker.. lol...
JLUVBABY
i wanna add too there is a big shit going on in galveston right now and has been for some years now due to jack johnson not having as much as a plaque on a building or on the seawall or somewhere but you drive down the main street of galveston and there is a giant confederate soilder of some dude no one can tell me exactly who he is... lol... society continues to kick the man damn near 70 years after his death... lol... damn shame...
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