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Jack 1000
I think (or at least hope to hell) that boxing does get better, and I think it will, but it needs an emergence of a heavyweight superstar, fighting on commercial broadcast TV again. Since the heavyweights make the most money. Or at least get Super Six and Super-Eight round-robin tournaments involve that can get the general public excited and informed again.

And instead of promoters promoting on an "In-House" only basis, boxing needs to make deals with the other promoters and networks to get good fights happening. Right now, there are no commercial networks doing boxing to get the public excited again. Shobox may have the right idea, but they are working with ESPN material, and there's just nothing on Shobox that makes me want to watch. In rare cases, a title fight, but all of this goes back to the same problems.

Too many PPV's, too high priced, older fighters not taking as many risks against the younger fighters, the lack of broadcast TV and boxing superstars to draw general public people to boxing and get them excited again.

Jack
Romulus9
CBS and Showtime are owned by the same entity.

ABC and ESPN are owned by the same entity.

There is no reason that things couldn't be much better.

The semi-finals and finals of the Super Six should be on CBS. If they can take up a Saturday night for absolutely dreadful Strikeforce nonsense, they can air the finals of the Super Six!

ESPN, when optioning the TV rights to a heavyweight championship fight, should have the fight on ABC on a Saturday afternoon. There was still a great selection of boxing on ABC on Saturday afternoons in the mid-to-late 90s (the Quaker State championship boxing series). Broadcast TV isn't the big deal that it used to be, mainly because of the cable/satellite explosion that gave us 5000 channels. There's not a lot of common ground anymore because we're not all watching the same stuff like we used to. Still, it would be nice to get good boxing on the channels that EVERYONE gets.

Another thing that would help is to see ESPN double its Friday Night Fights budget. Same amount of shows but a higher quality of show as it pertains to opposition and matchups.

I think ShoBox is the best series around right now, as this weekend's card showed. ShoBox shines because of matchups, not just 'names'. Guerrero/Smith was a tremendous fight. Neither guy is A class, or even a solid B+, but it made for a great fight.

(Of course, this is all purely from a United States standpoint.)
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jul 18 2010, 02:27 PM) *
CBS and Showtime are owned by the same entity.

ABC and ESPN are owned by the same entity.

There is no reason that things couldn't be much better.

The semi-finals and finals of the Super Six should be on CBS. If they can take up a Saturday night for absolutely dreadful Strikeforce nonsense, they can air the finals of the Super Six!

ESPN, when optioning the TV rights to a heavyweight championship fight, should have the fight on ABC on a Saturday afternoon. There was still a great selection of boxing on ABC on Saturday afternoons in the mid-to-late 90s (the Quaker State championship boxing series). Broadcast TV isn't the big deal that it used to be, mainly because of the cable/satellite explosion that gave us 5000 channels. There's not a lot of common ground anymore because we're not all watching the same stuff like we used to. Still, it would be nice to get good boxing on the channels that EVERYONE gets.

Another thing that would help is to see ESPN double its Friday Night Fights budget. Same amount of shows but a higher quality of show as it pertains to opposition and matchups.

I think ShoBox is the best series around right now, as this weekend's card showed. ShoBox shines because of matchups, not just 'names'. Guerrero/Smith was a tremendous fight. Neither guy is A class, or even a solid B+, but it made for a great fight.

(Of course, this is all purely from a United States standpoint.)


i love your post rom... agree with all of it... but some if not most just aint happening... makes too much sense... espn double its friday night fight budget?... not happening... lol... we are probably lucky we still got what we have... ever since usa tuesday night fights got canned ive been weary of these fight shows that are not on hbo or showtime... matter of fact didnt versus try to put on some fights and they became less and less... for what ever reason there is just no money in the pot for boxing unless its on the super two networks...
Jack 1000
The problem today is that fighters and promoters want to keep their fighters and matches "in house" rather than do business with other promoters.

And because let's say they lose. But under this system of keeping everything "In House" they lose to another fighter that they control, rather than lose to an outside promoters' fighter, which to them is worse. You have these three little niches now: Top Rank, Golden Boy, and Gary Shaw, with their little "nest" of fighters that they only have competing against each other to minimize the risk of an outside promoter coming in and taking over. This happened in the past with Don King too, but he was at least willing many times with some extra effort to work with other promoters so that the big fights happen.

Very few want to go "outside the nest" anymore with the fighters they control.

Jack
dominicbuilder9k1
A good-even match... an extensive ads... and above normal HYPE...this are necessary to get the general public interested in boxing AGAIN..
Maxy
The biggest problem today is the fights that should happen just don't occur, for whatever reason. Mayweather-Pac is a start, as is Haye vs either of the Klits. How are the general public going to be drawn back to a sport where the best fighters don't face each other. I've been a fan since I was 7-8 years old. Love the sport, but even I'm getting fed up with these non fights.

Ridiculous.
ROLL DEEP
Promoters need to take a leaf out of Dana's book.


Seriously.




Tell me what UFC card DIDN'T LOOK exciting. I'm not talking about the actual fights - but the build up and the anticipation makes me want to watch them.

You know you're going to get 2 guys who are going to give it their all.




Whether you're an MMA fan or not, you can't deny the hype the cards bring.
blackbelt2003
One thing....FIGHT MORE OFTEN!


That would solve all of boxing's ills.

Fighters only fighting once every six months or every year is what's killing the sport. Fighters build up a good fan base on the way up, they KO plenty of journeymen and get their names around. Then, BINGO, they win a world title and you hardly ever see them. They end up getting stripped, they pick and choose opponents (citing the old cliche; "the fighter makes the belt"), they fall off the radar and so on.


Of course, a few big names survive, the DLH's and Mayweathers etc, but all the would be super stars just end up on skid row because of bad career choices.


Fighting often would negate this. They lose? Big deal, they've got four more fights in the next year to rebuild their reputation. Lose their title in a unification match up? No worries, three more fights and they'll be a number one contender again. Scared they'll lose in a big money fight? No problem, take the money anyway, there'll always be another money match up in six months time.


If they've only got one fight this year, you're damned sure they'll squeeze every bit of money from it and eliminate every bit of risk. That's why we get shitty match ups right now.



Black
Run and Gun Game Calls
The thing that helps out MMA, Mainly the (ufc) is they are all under one tent. So the Marketing is done properly. And the Fight Cards are stacked with 4 to 5 very good fights.
Another thing MMA does that Boxing could Learn from, is they put on a couple of good prelim fights on Spike TV, right before the main event,

With Boxing you have many different ego's and agendas. The Day of the Promoter is gone. Now they hurt Boxing more than help. If you could get a boxing commission (which I dont believe we will ever see) That was in charge of handling TV contracts and promotions, things would have a chance to fully recover and put boxing back on the front page.

Dana White is an ass, but he knows how to run his sport.

Boxing could learn alot from them
JLUVBABY
fighting more and getting boxing on regular television i would think would be the keys... and not mis-matches i mean if its a house fighter at least respect the public enough to put him in versus a guy thats gonna make a fight out of it... or at least try to match the fighter up that way... show the non fans what the sport really is not the mis-matches or not the fights where the house fighters gets his head handed to him to see the pug who just fought his heart out get jobbed.... i cant lie if i wasnt such a hardcore fight fan i would have left the sport alone a long time ago because of bad decisions... i understand how such fights turn people away from the sport and i cant speak for you guys but that is the number one reason i hear people say they dont watch anymore... i've always believed that upsets make the sport bigger... the sport needs new or fresh faces.. dont rob the fighters that fight their heart out... thats hard for anybody to watch... chances are the house fighter is of caliber to come back and win the rematch or will be back... no way boxing shouldnt be a mainstream sport.
Col Reb
Put good fights with big names on free tv!
Lil-lightsout
Invent a time machine and go back to the 90's.

Boxing has lost just about all their stars and it really looks bleak in the future as far as the general public goes. Sure the hardcore fans will always be here and watching, but it's different now. MMA has definitely become more popular to the general public. There just is not many stars in boxing right now that gets the general public exited.
Fitz
I just get fucking annoyed. Even in Australia on a small boxing scale, we get the same trash. What fucking pisses me off, is if I was to go to people around Australia and ask who Australia's best boxer is, majority would say Green or Mundine. That to me a lone pisses me off. We have Green and Mundine getting shitty PPV's in Australia, they get the coverage and then people whine about them fighting tomato cans and aren't even highly respected on a world scale and are no true world champions.
When right under their fucking nose, we have Vic Darchinyan cleaning house. He is more ferocious than Danny Green, and more exciting. He can talk the talk like Anthony Mundine, but he is more extremely confident than cocky and not only does he talk the talk, he walks the walk. Not only does he do that, he was an actual 2 division 'real' champion, and a current undisputed champion of the WORLD, not fucking Australia or trashy titles. He also wins in dominating fashion and wins over Mijares and Arce and the way he won them, is way more impressive than anything Green and Mundine have dune. He is fan friendly fighter as well, people would love him. He also has respect in the boxing world by people. All of this is right under Australia's fucking nose, yet the media get people to believe Green and Mundine are probably Australia's best and that's probably what most would think. That is what's wrong with boxing. Mundine or Green wouldn't even be in my top 2 best Australian fighters, with resume and achievments on a world scale, and respect.

  1. Dacrhinyan
  2. Katsidis
  3. Green
  4. Mundine


This is what happens on a small scale, but the same thing happens over there. Everybody thinks Mayweather, Pacquiao (who is actually exciting), Mosley, Jones Jr and Hopkins are the ones to watch, though Pacquiao actually is worth it (as much as I hate him), because he doesn't disappoint the casual fan. But they were giving these guys hype for the big fights to watch, and most of the time, they aren't the guys to watch to try gain new fans (by the way, when talking about Jones, it's more about him the last couple of years, and Mosley can probably get a pass like Pacquaio). But they hype fights, and most casual fans probably won't walk away too impressed most of the times. When we have some pretty hot fights in some of the lighter weights, even the Super 6 is probably something that would impress or gain more new fans than some of the boring fights, or mismatches that they sell to people.
This is why I am becoming a bigger and bigger fan every day of the light guys. Fights are made easier, the best fight best and they are entertaining. It isn't as corrupt as the other divisions. Those divisions are fantastic.
Fitz
The solution is so easy, anyone that loves the sport could change it. It really is that easy, it's just almost impossible to implement because everybody is just looking after themselves now. Promoters, sanctioning bodies. They don't care to fix the sport, because it would mean they sacrifice money even if it meant making money in the LONG run, but the problem is, the future doesn't worry them, because they won't be around to see the rewards.
I know this sounds like an insane idea, but someone with money, balls and a love for the sport, that actually want to see it better would need to follow the UFC structure. I know it's a fairytale and don't even know it's possible. But make like a league or franchise like UFC. Obviously you would get some pretty low level guys at the start because superstars aren't going to sign a contract to a league where they would be tied and make less money. But what about guys that get paid peanuts anyways? They have one champion, and are basically forced to fight one another.
The idea probably sounds dumb, and it doesn't need to be that way, as it could be fixed any time if people co-operated and people that mattered that were involved in the sport actually gave a shit about the sport and fans. Unfortunately, I don't have any faith in the people involved and feel the only way is to build it up again with a different structure. In the end, it's the credibility of the sport that is killing boxing, not that people don't give a shit about it. You give the sport credibility and fights people want to see, the fans will come.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 28 2010, 07:34 AM) *
The solution is so easy, anyone that loves the sport could change it. It really is that easy, it's just almost impossible to implement because everybody is just looking after themselves now. Promoters, sanctioning bodies. They don't care to fix the sport, because it would mean they sacrifice money even if it meant making money in the LONG run, but the problem is, the future doesn't worry them, because they won't be around to see the rewards.
I know this sounds like an insane idea, but someone with money, balls and a love for the sport, that actually want to see it better would need to follow the UFC structure. I know it's a fairytale and don't even know it's possible. But make like a league or franchise like UFC. Obviously you would get some pretty low level guys at the start because superstars aren't going to sign a contract to a league where they would be tied and make less money. But what about guys that get paid peanuts anyways? They have one champion, and are basically forced to fight one another.
The idea probably sounds dumb, and it doesn't need to be that way, as it could be fixed any time if people co-operated and people that mattered that were involved in the sport actually gave a shit about the sport and fans. Unfortunately, I don't have any faith in the people involved and feel the only way is to build it up again with a different structure. In the end, it's the credibility of the sport that is killing boxing, not that people don't give a shit about it. You give the sport credibility and fights people want to see, the fans will come.

Yeah, in effect, Dana White is the same as Arum, King, GBP and the others, he just happens to have all of the fighters fighting for him, because he has generated the most demand over the years. I think, eventually, MMA will look a lot like boxing does today, as soon as some other guys get into the game(like Gary Shaw tried) and develop a competitive product. The UFC has just been good a keeping it's competitors at bay for now and has built a very good brand.

Also, free tv is a pipe dream. Face the facts people, most folks don't like boxing, and it's not because they have to pay for it. I think it's time for most boxing fans to come to the realization that the general public doesn't care about boxing, and it's not for a lack of entertaining fights.
Fitz
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jul 29 2010, 12:42 AM) *
Yeah, in effect, Dana White is the same as Arum, King, GBP and the others, he just happens to have all of the fighters fighting for him, because he has generated the most demand over the years. I think, eventually, MMA will look a lot like boxing does today, as soon as some other guys get into the game(like Gary Shaw tried) and develop a competitive product. The UFC has just been good a keeping it's competitors at bay for now and has built a very good brand.

Also, free tv is a pipe dream. Face the facts people, most folks don't like boxing, and it's not because they have to pay for it. I think it's time for most boxing fans to come to the realization that the general public doesn't care about boxing, and it's not for a lack of entertaining fights.


I agree with that. I have said in the past that UFC may turn into boxing, forcing them to pay fighters more, and in effect that means having less money to spend on a card.
Though I disagree that the general public doesn't care about boxing. I think with the right fights, more credibility in the sport and the sport being structured more simple (as in 1 champion) it can gain interest. I have about 4 friends that didn't watch boxing. I showed one guy Morales-Pacquiao I. He then went out and bought a DVD that had Morales-Pacquiao I, II and III. He has become a big fan of Pacquiao and he then showed the DVD to 3 of the mother friends and now I have about 4 mates that are into boxing when ever boxing Pacquiao fights.
The problem in the past is, that they put a lot into fights that aren't really the fights that will have people walking away impressed. I don't know, that's my opinion anyways. It also doesn't help that there isn't a heavyweight right now that many people can identify and get excited for.
BigG
Less PVP - Fighters especially big names should fight at least 3-4 times a year.

And Boxing is VERY big here in the philippines more than MMA....AJ Banal a young contender just drew 30,000 people to watch his fight..
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (BigG @ Jul 29 2010, 01:45 PM) *
Less PVP - Fighters especially big names should fight at least 3-4 times a year.

And Boxing is VERY big here in the philippines more than MMA....AJ Banal a young contender just drew 30,000 people to watch his fight..

Well, this is America, not the Philippines. We don't elect boxers to office here, just NFL & NBA players.
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jul 29 2010, 07:22 PM) *
Well, this is America, not the Philippines. We don't elect boxers to office here, just NFL & NBA players.


And this guy

rusty_trombone
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Jul 29 2010, 02:38 PM) *
And this guy


I forgot about actors.
buford54
As has been said, UFC works because Dana White runs the only plantation in town. If the fight isn't entertaining, he either fires or demotes people. That's why his Jerry Springer loving fans pay $60 every time he sneezes. He practically guarantee's excitement.

Bars that carry WWE PPV's won't carry boxing, because the fight could be either a snoozefest, or end in one punch and people will leave to go drink at home.

What would have to happen is there would need to be a series of fights over several years that all end in knockouts. That would gain fans back. But once people get pulled back in by the knockouts, they will start to appreciate the guys who know how to not get knocked out.

It's like starting from the ground floor. Most of my friends who like MMA don't watch boxing because of the "avoid punishment" styles of the guys who are at the top of the sport. There is no appreciation of the skill involved, people just want to see violence these days.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (buford54 @ Jul 29 2010, 11:52 PM) *
As has been said, UFC works because Dana White runs the only plantation in town. If the fight isn't entertaining, he either fires or demotes people. That's why his Jerry Springer loving fans pay $60 every time he sneezes. He practically guarantee's excitement.

Bars that carry WWE PPV's won't carry boxing, because the fight could be either a snoozefest, or end in one punch and people will leave to go drink at home.

What would have to happen is there would need to be a series of fights over several years that all end in knockouts. That would gain fans back. But once people get pulled back in by the knockouts, they will start to appreciate the guys who know how to not get knocked out.

It's like starting from the ground floor. Most of my friends who like MMA don't watch boxing because of the "avoid punishment" styles of the guys who are at the top of the sport. There is no appreciation of the skill involved, people just want to see violence these days.

It's not just these days, people have and always will enjoyed watching violence. I agree with you, that is the main reason it is more popular, just a higher level of violence.
Jack 1000
My take is the following:

1.) Fighters need to fight more often.

2.) Networks like HBO/Showtime need to consolidate their fighters and eliminate the long-term fighter contract relationship. You fight for the network that brings the best deal. More negotiation with outside promoters for the best fights. Less "in-house" matches.

3.) Promoters look to compete by offering the best fights to the highest bidders.

4.) Similar structures to Showtime's Super Six should be encouraged for all divisions, with the fights on commercial broadcast TV, so that the general public can "follow allong."

5.) Boxing needs to market its undercard fights with quality matches like we are seeing with tonight's Marquez-Diaz rematch. Let's hope this trend continues.

6.) PPV prices need to have a sliding scale pay structure where only the biggest fights run $50-$60. Tonight's fight if it qualifies for PPV at all, (and I believe the main event is HBO material, should be $30, not $50.) Get the smaller PPV's back to the $30 price range.

7.) Fighters have to stop thinking that one loss is a death sentence to their careers!!!! In MMA, fighters lose, and they get back on the horse, and look forward to a rematch. (More money, and an opportunity for redemption.) Boxing doesn't do that today. It's like, "I lost, I'm taking my bat and ball, and going home." Losing does not have to be this unforgivable sin that boxers often think it is, especially if they have given it there all in a good to great fight!

Jack
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