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Fitz
Don't think this was done before, but want to know some good mythical matchups where you think a solid underdog would have given a guy perceived by most to be just too good, but a style would make a pretty interesting fight.
Also I am not looking for examples either where you have two very good and highly rated fighters, but one is the underdog. Like saying Mosley-Mayweather (Mosley an underdog) wouldn't be an example I am looking for, as he is a good fighter. More looking for upsets like Tyson-Douglas, Mayorga-Forrest, Harris-Maussa, Pacquiao-Barrera (at the time). They don't have to be terrible fighters, but at least where a guy would have been a BIG underdog.
They don't have to necessarily win, but give a very interesting fight or something.

I have spoken a bit about him lately, so I will come across as a nuthugger, lol. But from what I have learned in the past, he can give some fighters some trouble no matter what. I think a prime Mayorga vs Mayweather at 147 would have been interesting. Especially a Mayorga who's chin hadn't been cracked yet. Mayorga's chin was remarkable against Trinidad, he also had some pace and pop in his punches as well and kept coming. He would have made Mayweather fight, and Mayweather wouldn't stop him in his tracks like bigger guys like Trinidad and DLH did. Mayweather would win, but I think Mayorga would have given a pretty good account for himself.

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 26 2010, 09:28 PM) *
Don't think this was done before, but want to know some good mythical matchups where you think a solid underdog would have given a guy perceived by most to be just too good, but a style would make a pretty interesting fight.
Also I am not looking for examples either where you have two very good and highly rated fighters, but one is the underdog. Like saying Mosley-Mayweather (Mosley an underdog) wouldn't be an example I am looking for, as he is a good fighter. More looking for upsets like Tyson-Douglas, Mayorga-Forrest, Harris-Maussa, Pacquiao-Barrera (at the time). They don't have to be terrible fighters, but at least where a guy would have been a BIG underdog.
They don't have to necessarily win, but give a very interesting fight or something.

I have spoken a bit about him lately, so I will come across as a nuthugger, lol. But from what I have learned in the past, he can give some fighters some trouble no matter what. I think a prime Mayorga vs Mayweather at 147 would have been interesting. Especially a Mayorga who's chin hadn't been cracked yet. Mayorga's chin was remarkable against Trinidad, he also had some pace and pop in his punches as well and kept coming. He would have made Mayweather fight, and Mayweather wouldn't stop him in his tracks like bigger guys like Trinidad and DLH did. Mayweather would win, but I think Mayorga would have given a pretty good account for himself.

Sweet idea..Kinda reminds me of Braddock/Baer..I'm gonna have to think about some..

Good topic and hopefully we get some debate goin..hahaha..
PR316
I think it would be much like Mayweather-Baldomir with a bit more action maybe.


Roy Jones vs Joe Calzaghe in his prime would have been good. I think Roy would have definitely beaten him but Joe woulda given a good account of himself.
Fitz
QUOTE (PR316 @ Jul 27 2010, 12:33 PM) *
I think it would be much like Mayweather-Baldomir with a bit more action maybe.


Roy Jones vs Joe Calzaghe in his prime would have been good. I think Roy would have definitely beaten him but Joe woulda given a good account of himself.


I thought about that PR, but the difference between Mayorga and Baldomir is that Baldomir was as slow as bat shit. Not only did he have slow hands, he was slow on his feet. By the time Baldomir moved, Mayweather was gone. By the time Baldomir threw, Mayweather was gone.
Mayorga brings MUCH more speed and power, he will make Mayweather fight more. Baldomir couldn't make Mayweather fight because he was way too slow, at least Mayorga would have made Mayweather take some risks.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (PR316 @ Jul 26 2010, 09:33 PM) *
I think it would be much like Mayweather-Baldomir with a bit more action maybe.


Roy Jones vs Joe Calzaghe in his prime would have been good. I think Roy would have definitely beaten him but Joe woulda given a good account of himself.


Nah i think Jones beats Calazghe fairly easy in his hey day.
King Eugene
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Jul 27 2010, 12:06 AM) *
Nah i think Jones beats Calazghe fairly easy in his hey day.

Yea I think Jones gets him out there pretty early as well. Jones was a supreme counter puncher and he would have had a field day with Calzaghe trying to throw a hundred punches a round.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Tyson/Tua

Toney/Eubank

Mayweather/Hamed
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jul 27 2010, 05:18 AM) *
Mayweather/Hamed



I think Mayweather woul'dve destroyed Hamed. Hamed, although powerful, telegraphed his shots too much. Mayweather would've been out of the way in no time.



Jones - Calzaghe would be a decent scrap I think....but I think Calzaghe would've walked onto too many sharp counters that would sting him.....but how would Jones react to Calzaghe's volume? If Joe could force Roy to cover up, then he could really trouble Roy.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Jul 27 2010, 03:29 PM) *
I think Mayweather woul'dve destroyed Hamed. Hamed, although powerful, telegraphed his shots too much. Mayweather would've been out of the way in no time.



Jones - Calzaghe would be a decent scrap I think....but I think Calzaghe would've walked onto too many sharp counters that would sting him.....but how would Jones react to Calzaghe's volume? If Joe could force Roy to cover up, then he could really trouble Roy.


I do too, but I would have to put Hamed (and certainly prime Hamed) in the solid underdog category purely because of that phenominal one punch power.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Jul 26 2010, 11:06 PM) *
Nah i think Jones beats Calazghe fairly easy in his hey day.


hell yeah... its not even close...
STEVENSKI
Dunno who the underdog is but Fenech vs Pac at 126 or 130 would have been interesting to say the least. Both could punch & throw a lot of volume out.
Fitz
Mayorga would have been wrong for Cotto as well at 147.

What about Wlad Klitschko? I know many hate him, and think he isn't all that. But I think he would be able to give quite a few all time great heavies some trouble and would probably be the underdog in all of them. I think Wlad could be applied to this in a few fights? Thoughts?
Jonny, I know you love the old school fighters and I know you like Wlad, which all time great heavies do you think Wlad would have been a very live underdog against?
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 27 2010, 06:43 PM) *
Mayorga would have been wrong for Cotto as well at 147.

What about Wlad Klitschko? I know many hate him, and think he isn't all that. But I think he would be able to give quite a few all time great heavies some trouble and would probably be the underdog in all of them. I think Wlad could be applied to this in a few fights? Thoughts?
Jonny, I know you love the old school fighters and I know you like Wlad, which all time great heavies do you think Wlad would have been a very live underdog against?

Glad you asked..I actually had the Klitchkos on my mind when I first posted but was looking for fantasy fight in the lower divisions..I've had a lot of ideas but none have stood out to me just yet..

I think he would have been a live underdog to someone like Marciano..Marciano would have to work to get on the inside..He had a really good parry that Tony Zale taught him and we all know that Marciano can tell some pain to give pain..Archie said that Marciano is "wham,bam,don't give a damn" and Ali had bruises all over his arms from the light sparring if you wanna call it that for the Super Fight video that had Marciano winning..That all said,I think Marciano would be favored in the fight by KO but Wlad would make things really interesting..Marciano might hit the deck in this fight but I don't see him staying down for anyone..
JonnyBlaze
Some ideas I've had are

Pac-man vs. Benny Leonard at 135----Pac-man as the underdog

Henry Armstrong vs.Kostya Tszyu at 140----Tszyu as the underdog

Fritzie Zivic vs Floyd Mayweather at 147---back in the 40s(we'd really see Floyd gettin roughed up by head butts,elbows,low punches,and so on from one of the dirtest fighters in history)-----Zivic as the underdog but he'd have a lot of dirty tricks up his sleeve to make it a tough fight for Floyd..Zivic did beat some of the best so he was no joke..
D-MARV
Vitali beats Marciano in my opinion. He does it pretty easy I might add.

Mean Mister Mustard
I think a 2001 version of Calzaghe would be a live underdog against Jones. If Jones Jr hirts him or drops him early then he better finish him, otherwise he's in for a long night and we know Jones Jr likes to fight in spots.

Hamed-Mayweather would have beena wipeout for Mayweather. He would have nailed Hamed with lead right hands all night, plus the chances of him getting caught are slim seeing how he's so damn good defensively.

Julio Cesar Chavez v.s Roberto Duran, the greatest Mexican fighter ever against the best Latino fighter ever. Most would favor Duran for his ferouciousness, power and stamina but Chavez had all those things too and would stand a good chance of wining against a prime Duran.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Jul 27 2010, 08:52 PM) *
Vitali beats Marciano in my opinion. He does it pretty easy I might add.

What do you see happening??Pretty basic to say he does it pretty easy..

One thing I'll add for ya is that Marciano had a really short reach and also is 5'10..When he lands a punch though,they all have bad intentions and it shows..Yet,if he(a older Marciano) was able to get inside Ali's jab,I see him getting inside Klitchkos..
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Jul 27 2010, 11:29 PM) *
Julio Cesar Chavez v.s Roberto Duran, the greatest Mexican fighter ever against the best Latino fighter ever. Most would favor Duran for his ferouciousness, power and stamina but Chavez had all those things too and would stand a good chance of wining against a prime Duran.


That one there would be my all time dream match up. Duran is the idol of all latino fighter he's p4p the greatest latino fighter ever. Chavez was a monster at 135lb it's pretty sad that he stuck around too long and most young fans only remember him for his DLH and Tszyu losses but the Chavez from those fights was nothing like the Chavez from the 80's who fought at 130 and 135lb. He was a complete wrecking machine. Iv'e always said that Chavez was nearly unbeatbale at lightweight the only guy who i would have favored over Chavez would ofcourse be Duran but it would have been a 15 rd war for the ages.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Jul 28 2010, 12:32 AM) *
That one ther would be my all time dream match up. Duran is the idol of all latino fighter he's p4p the greatest latino fighter ever. Chavez was amonster at 135lb it's pretty sad that he stuck around too long and most young fans only rmemebr him for his DLH and Tszyu losses but the Chavez from those fights was nothing liek the Chavez ffrom the 80's who fought at 130 and 135lb. He was complete wrecking machine. Iv'e always said that Chavez was nearly unbeabale at lightweight the only guy who i would have favored over Chavez would ofcourse be Duran but it would have bee na 15 rd war for the ages.

Benny Leonard would of boxed Chavez's ears off at 135..
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jul 28 2010, 01:33 AM) *
Benny Leonard would of boxed Chavez's ears off at 135..


I knew somone was gonna come back with that and like i always reply I know what Chavez could do at 135lb but i can only go by what i hear and read about Leonard. I've seen some HL of him and from what i've seen Chavez beats him and any other LW in history with the exception of Duran. But ofcourse like most around here already know im a huge Chavez fan and can't go against him in any fight(minus Duran).
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Jul 28 2010, 12:44 AM) *
I knew somone was gonna come back with that and like i always reply I know what Chavez could do at 135lb but i can only go by what i hear and read about Leonard. I've seen some HL of him and from what i've seen Chavez beats him and any other LW in history with the exception of Duran. But ofcourse like most around here already know im a huge Chavez fan and can't go against him in any fight(minus Duran).

Ray Arcel trained Duran and Benny Leonard and Arcel said Leonard was the better than Duran..Also said Leonard was the best lightweight ever..I'll go with Arcel..
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jul 28 2010, 02:05 AM) *
Ray Arcel trained Duran and Benny Leonard and Arcel said Leonard was the better than Duran..Also said Leonard was the best lightweight ever..I'll go with Arcel..


Old timers usually side with old timers especially if there realy realy ol' timers.

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Jul 28 2010, 01:09 AM) *
Old timers usually side with old timers especially if there realy realy ol' timers.

hahahaha..Nice try man..

Seriously though,Arcel is the best trainer EVER..I'm sure he wouldn't become bias over a guy he trained years ago compared to a guy who he was training..This was before the Duran/R. Leonard incident when everyone was still thinking Duran was unstoppable..
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 26 2010, 10:28 PM) *
I have spoken a bit about him lately, so I will come across as a nuthugger, lol. But from what I have learned in the past, he can give some fighters some trouble no matter what. I think a prime Mayorga vs Mayweather at 147 would have been interesting. Especially a Mayorga who's chin hadn't been cracked yet. Mayorga's chin was remarkable against Trinidad, he also had some pace and pop in his punches as well and kept coming. He would have made Mayweather fight, and Mayweather wouldn't stop him in his tracks like bigger guys like Trinidad and DLH did. Mayweather would win, but I think Mayorga would have given a pretty good account for himself.


Mayorga would have been very dangerous for Floyd, and I am talking about the Ricardo who fought Forrest. Baldomir is a poor example to compare Mayorga with. At the time Mayorga destroyed Forrest, he was pretty quick, had an excellent chin, and had freakish power. He also was crazy and took the necessary chances to unload his bombs. We saw Floyd wobbled badly by Mosley, no doubt there Ricardo would have had a live punchers chance to clip Floyd and stop him. Not to mention Forrest had more pop than Floyd and he could not even make Ricardo flinch, Floyd's punches would have zero effect on him. The real question is could Floyd have stayed perfect for all 12 rounds with out getting hit and seriously hurt? Probably, but Ricardo sure could have made it interesting.

Great example Fitz.


King Eugene
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jul 28 2010, 04:55 AM) *
Mayorga would have been very dangerous for Floyd, and I am talking about the Ricardo who fought Forrest. Baldomir is a poor example to compare Mayorga with. At the time Mayorga destroyed Forrest, he was pretty quick, had an excellent chin, and had freakish power. He also was crazy and took the necessary chances to unload his bombs. We saw Floyd wobbled badly by Mosley, no doubt there Ricardo would have had a live punchers chance to clip Floyd and stop him. Not to mention Forrest had more pop than Floyd and he could not even make Ricardo flinch, Floyd's punches would have zero effect on him. The real question is could Floyd have stayed perfect for all 12 rounds with out getting hit and seriously hurt? Probably, but Ricardo sure could have made it interesting.

Great example Fitz.

Interesting, yea maybe so but would he have been able to land clean on Floyd is the big question. When you make Floyd going in defensive mode he is pretty hard to hit and he'll throw and land just enough shots to win rounds. It would have been a tough fight but the score cards would have said different.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (King Eugene @ Jul 28 2010, 05:16 AM) *
Interesting, yea maybe so but would he have been able to land clean on Floyd is the big question. When you make Floyd going in defensive mode he is pretty hard to hit and he'll throw and land just enough shots to win rounds. It would have been a tough fight but the score cards would have said different.


Sure I think Floyd would have played it very safe and won, but nothing like against Baldy. Mayorga would have been way more dangerous, and made it an interesting fight.
Fitz
I agree. I don't think Mayorga would definitely win. But I think he could push Mayweather pretty hard. It's why I said a few weeks back. That Mayorga is probably one of the greatest worst boxers. He had a decent resume with what he had.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jul 28 2010, 04:39 AM) *
Sure I think Floyd would have played it very safe and won, but nothing like against Baldy. Mayorga would have been way more dangerous, and made it an interesting fight.

I don't see Mayorga having much of a chance..Floyd gets hit with really straight punches and crisp hooks..Mayorga would be warning Floyd too far in advance in my opinion with his punches..Could Mayorga land that one good one??Yeah I think it's possible since he's so awkward..I think Floyd would wear Mayorga down like most opponents during the fight if Mayorga didn't get him early..
D-MARV
I don't give Mayorga much of a chance against Floyd either. Sure, he would have his seconds... AND I DO MEAN SECONDS, Floyd would land a flush shot and Mayorga would stick his tounge out at him or something like that but Floyd's defense is much too tight for Mayorga's wild swinging offense. Isee see Mayweather sharp shooting his way to a unanimous victory with little issue.
JonnyBlaze
I've got a GREAT fantasy match up..Billy Conn vs. Ali..

Billy would be the underdog but I actually can see him winning this fight..Conn could be really aggressive in fights and would bring it in the fight..Ali and Conn would be displaying 2 of the best jabs in the heavyweight division ever..I'd really like to see who'd gain the edge in that..Ali would obviously have the length but that's not always the deciding factor..I think Conn would be able to rough Ali up on the inside and would be able to box with him on the outside..

Who do ya all think wins and most importantly why??
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