What I don't understand is,

How come if a boxing match ends in say 90 seconds, people think they got ripped off. But if an MMA fight ends in 90 seconds, many people think that's amazing? I have seen some of these MMA events that are over at the drop of a hat, and so many people think that's great, even if they paid $50 for it. But for boxing, you pay $50 for a PPV that ends in 90 seconds, people think that sucks.

Personally, for boxing, I like the fighter to get some rounds in. I love knockouts but I don't want the fights to be over too quickly. I would like 3 rounds of action or more for my money in most cases. And of course, if a fight is a two-sided 12 round war, or in the earlier years of 15 rounds, what MMA purist would not love to see something like that!? Now, the MMA contests even at non-title duration are too short. Only 3 rounds for non-title fights? You just get into a fight, and its over.

The 5-round title matches are a little better. But I like the longer distance durations that boxing provides. It demonstrates the importance of endurance and stamina in conditioning. MMA guys don't have to have that long of an endurance clip because their fights are so much shorter. Longer distances, are the true measuring sticks of boxing champions. And MMA, no matter what spin you put on it, can't say that.

I'd like to hear how other people feel about this.

Jack

MMA fans have a gladiator mentality where they want blood immediately which is why they always boo technical matches. Most boxing fans love the little nuiances such as slipping punches, the beauty of a jab, body attack, etc. I for one loved the Gatti Ward trilogy for its blood and guts but I can watch Hopkins dismatle Trinidad any day of the week.

i agree... mma fans are a different type of fight fan all together different from your average boxing fan...

Yup. Different type of fan.

Personally, I can't go 1 full minute watching MMA without growing restless. I'm not knocking the sport but that's just not my style.

In boxing, I don't necessarily think that quick KO's are looked upon as a bad thing. Mike Tyson was one of the most watched fighters of all time and many knew that there was a good chance that the fight wouldn't leave the first round.

Take Edwin Valero for example.. He was certainly on his way to being a decent draw simply because his fights ended in knockouts. Most fans that tuned in to his fights knew that his fight would likely be ended early.

I think it's because MMA is just more appealing to some people, they want to see the physicality of it rather than the sweet science of boxing.

IMO is because boxing fights are generally scheduled for more rounds. Championship for MMA is 5 rounds, while boxing is 12 rounds. Maybe it is just a perception call?

Barbarians vs. scientists??

Yup Yup.

If all 4 of those fights ended in under 90 seconds, would people still think it was worthwhile?

Because most mma fans are fucking dumb ass rednecks, and apparently add runs in their inbred genetic pools.

Sorry I don't buy the endurance factor one iota. MMA involves a lot more energy being expended when grappling & fighting over the round than comparable in boxing. You always get exceptions to the norm but I believe that MMA fighters are much better conditioned on average than boxers.



Considering MMA has far more possible moves & diciplines than boxing you could well be right. Boxing is quite barbarian like with only a limited moveset to choose from.

Get with the programme Jon. Boxing is dying by the day whilst MMA is getting stronger by the second.

Having attended a UFC event I was extremely impressed with the whole setup & boxing a has a long long long way to go to even get close to the slick presentation & branding of the UFC. The whole way their operation was impressed me from the build up programmes to the fact that Bruce Buffer kept us informed of what was happening with little things like telling us the next fight was 10 minutes away so do what you gotta do.

I love boxing but it is losing ground constantly with all the schenadigans & trickerations that transpire between the fighters & promoters it is getting worse rather than better.

That could be true. But Bruce is no Michael. Michael is more professional. Bruce is just trying to clone him, and its so obvious. Michael would often screw up ring intros and the reading of scorecards. I don't know if Bruce does or not, because I don't watch enough MMA to draw a comparison.

Jack

It was more so the flow & way the event was handled that impressed me immensely. What was also good was at this event the people I talked to had a good knowledge of MMA & had flown from all over the country to attend it so were real fans. I guess there must be a lot of beer swiling rednecks that love UFC in America though.

The whole event was classy. I love boxing & boxing could learn a lot from the way the UFC events are run. How often do you see a fighter make their opponent wait for 10 minutes or there being a 45 wait between fights because the fighters "aren't ready". That does not happen in UFC.

But I think Jack's point is not to compare MMA events to boxing events as an explanation to why fans react differently to short matches, but rather a short fight in MMA vs a short fight in boxing. So the question is actually very valid. Do you think an MMA fan would have the same reaction as a boxing fan to a short match, irregardless of the previous cards?

That's not true. While there has been times where only one fight has stood out, I would say that the majority of the time I find numerous fights very entertaining. I think the more accurate statement would be "There is only 1 fight that appeals to the casual fan."

Last fights I went to they did this too..

It's sad to see this outta ya Steve..I never see ya talkin about much boxing these days that ya come on..Disappointing..Then ya say boxing is dying more each day..

I'm not going to put my opinion about boxing's science and MMA's barbaric ways just cause it's useless,it'll just be a reply that I'm biased or some stupid shit like that..Waste of my time..

That could explain the overlap with wrestling fans.

Get 'em jonny. Get your trainer on here to tell these bitches whats up also.

I noticed that we're seeing a lot less of good ole' Steve too. I just figured he got a new job. Maybe Steve has crossed over?

It's not that I dislike boxing & don't wanna talk but at home I have a shitty net connection (til I get my new one hooked up) & I just don't have much time to talk boxing ATM having moved my entire life across the country & all that stuff.

Boxing seems to want to hurt itself rather than grow & lets MMA gain ground daily with it's slick production values & branding. I don't have time to break it down properly but I will try to explain why boxing is starting to lose me.

Nah I just moved across the country & started a new job role & had to find somewhere to live etc. Steve will be back with a vengance shortly.

Great! That's what I wanted to here.

Say it ain't so Johnny. Someone who trains in any type of combat sport should never brand another with that name. Let's not forget all the infidel non-boxing fans who deem the sport as barbarian. They mistakenly think boxing is filled with nothing but shady characters. Every boxer is just another dumb sap who likes to get hit and the only thing they want to do is hurt someone. For these people most boxing matches are nothing but replicas of Rocky Balboa fights, where two guys show up and swing until the other is down. That is pure ignorance and you ,my dear Johnny, are doing the same thing with MMA.

Barbarism might have been the old MMA fights but not anymore. The science might not seem as sweet to you as boxing is but it is a science nonetheless. At the end of the day both require hard training to hone skills and to go along with the talent. You cannot half ass it in either boxing or MMA.

EVERYONE likes brutal KO's, Jack. I mean, let's not muck about. Why were Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano, George Foreman, and Mike Tyson among the most popular fighters the sport has ever seen? It wasn't because they were bastions of the "sweet science."

Why do I always hear people knocking Floyd Gayweather? Or the fucking Klitchskos? Because they are excellent strategists. They are true pillars of boxing's technical side. Yet all I hear is bitching and whining from boxing's arm-chair QBs because those fighters don't finish fights.

And then, goddamn it, God forbid a fucking MMA fan stand up and cheer for a knockout. Oh God, those fucking barbarians. They just don't get it. Man, fuck off with that shit.




3 rounds that are 5 minutes a piece. (In Pride the first round was 10 minutes!) Man, dude, seriously, it is more than enough.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. That's like saying, "Oh, Major League Baseball has over 100 games a year. What NFL fan would not love to see something like that!?" Well, none that actually give a damn about the sport. The wear and tear accumulated over each respective sport differs dramatically. As does the stamina required to perform efficiently. Boxing and MMA is no different.

This is just petulant at this point. "Boxing has 12 WHOLE rounds, the UFC only has 5 at best. Ha ha! Boxing wins!"



Again, complete horse-shit man. Go get your ass grounded down by a professional Jiu-Jitsu artist for five minutes, and then come back and tell me if you want 10, or even 20 more minutes of that shit.

There are more opportunities to get a breather in boxing. Clinch, circle, lean against the ropes, take a fucking knee, fake a punch to the back of the head or a low blow. I've seen it all. Take a knee in MMA and see what happens. Try to circle aways and see what happens.





Clinch and get your ass worked over with knees and elbows.



Lean against the cage and count the number of seconds before your pansy ass is on the receiving end of a concussion and a body slam.

Let's throw in boxing's turtle-shell defense, the one Winky Wright's gay ass loves so much. You know Wright, yes, that true bastion of the sweet science that no one likes because he's boring as fuck? Walk into an MMA ring with that kind of fucking defense. Imagine him getting his fucking arms broken from kicks, or getting his turtled-up as slammed to the ground by someone like Quentin "Rampage" Jackson. And then tell me if the Wankster wants 10 or 20 more minutes of that shit?




I wouldn't man, this shit is just getting old. I love combat sports. I love boxing, and I love MMA. And I'm sick of fans from both sides trying to compare the sport at this point.

You guys need to just fucking grow up already. You never hear the NBA, MLB, or NFL comparing themselves to each other. It's just fucking horse-shit. You don't even hear NASCAR trying to compare themselves to F-1, man.

Do boxing fans really have such a HUGE inferiority complex that the only thing they can do is sit around coming up with propaganda-style postings about how much more awesome boxing is than MMA? Man, boxing's got a TON of fucking problems now. Get that shit fixed before you take your ass over to someone else's house telling them what's wrong there.

Amen, brother. I wish we had more posters endowed with this type of common sense. But, as Murphy's Law #13 states: Common sense is not so common.

Ive been to many live pro MMA shows here and I took MMA for 1 year but I like Boxing more. I grew up on it..and stand up to me is REAL fighting..not ground fighting. Thats just how I feel. I like MMA too but Boxing >>>

I disagree with this, completely.

Of course you do. You just said you like boxing more.

In regards to your earlier statement, a fight is a fight. Wherever it's at.

Whatever... MMA fans are just as bad as boxing fans when it comes to the other sport. The argument is pretty damn retarded any way you look at it. Two different sports.

Hahahahaha..You guys really crack me up on here with this MMA/boxing shit..It's too funny seein ya guys gettin so worked up over this shit..A year ago,I'd be in the thick of this debate but not these days..I just sit back and laugh while throwin a couple comments in from time to time and see how ya guys react..

Personally I feel one is a sport and one is not....though the athletes from both train just as hard. To me there is more entertainment in watching a street fight outside of a bar than watching an MMA fight...no matter how long the fight lasts. I was a boxer....now I train kids to box....will always be purely a boxing fan. I take nothing away from the MMA fighters and how hard they work.....I actually watched Lesnar-Carwin and enjoyed it.....however when the argument comes up of MMA vs Boxing there is no contest. Boxing will always be number 1.


Really they shouldnt be compared though....let boxing stand on its own and let MMA stand on its own.

Let's be honest here, both sports, are in fact, pretty damn barbaric. I am not going to argue whether one is more barbaric than the other, or what place this kind of barbarism has in modern society. But beating another man in the face for sport, is inherently barbaric. I don't care how good you get at it, or how hard you work on the strategy, or how scientific it is, or how much "talent" it requires, at the end of the day both sports are brutal and barbaric.

I agree. That's why we watch it.



You must have been kidding Johnny, because those comments you made were pretty dumb.

[quote name='Mean Mister Mustard' date='Aug 3 2010, 10:13 AM' post='495359'

You must have been kidding Johnny, because those comments you made were pretty dumb.
[/quote]
Take it easy on Jonny. I see Jonny as fighthypes "gym boy." He's like the kid in the gym that is trying to learn about all sorts of shit, and will do whatever it takes to be around boxing. Carry the fighters gloves, handle the spit bucket, mop up blood. He's like the kid in the Mean Joe Green coke commercial that was so happy when he got his jersey.

LOL "gym boy".

After all the extreme training drills his trainer puts him through, I'm sure Johnny can handle it.

I understand where he's coming from though. I've talked to boxers and trainers who have been around the sport all their lives and all of a sudden they see MMA, where guys can pin one another on a cage and rain elbows on them, and they immediatly say that they can;t handle it, it's too barbaric. But like you said; isn't pinning a guy in a corner and smashing his face and body with gloves a bit savage as well?

Yeah, very savage. The point of boxing to smash a mans head good enough to damage his thinking capability. That's pretty brutal.

mma isn't the sport, duh fitz.

I dont have a problem with both mma and boxing being classified as sport but...

My brother and I had this discussion not long ago and he shifted my opinion on it. His argument was that mma was much more combat and boxing was much more sport.

He maintains that a sport is a competition between 2 or more people all doing the essentially the same thing, as is the case with boxing... 2 people engaging in a competition to see who can land and defend against punches. He pointed out that this is not the case with mma, that it pits 2 guys who could, and often are, doing vastly different things to each other... and because of this fundamental difference from boxing, mma becomes much more about the punishment inflicted rather then who is better at a particular skill.

I gave some thought to his observation and believe it has some merit. I have seen few mma fights where I felt the winner had not inflicted the most damage during the fight. I see boxers win fights having not inflicted more damage then their opponent much more often.

Fitz, let it go dude... It's a sport!

That's why Fitz is P4P here. He's one of the few guys I've seen who consistently calls shit right down the middle. Stevenski is another. I don't know how many times this topic is going to repeat itself here, but it's damn sure getting old, and I think everyone has pretty much made their feelings known. Ad nauseum.

Jack, you really outta know better too, bro.

I have no problem with it being classified as sport. I was just throwing that out there for some discussion.

I think my brothers idea of sport has merit but it's not the end all interpretation. If all something has to be is "a physical activity governed by rules and competetive"... then War itself is nothing more then a sport. My brother sees an imaginary dividing line dividing combat and sport.

And for the record... mma is a great whatever classification is placed upon it.

That's cool. I understood what the point was and agreed with how he summed up MMA, though I just think at the end of the day, it is definitely a sport.

About the bolded part. War is more than a sport. It's the pinnacle of sport, and it's what sports aspire to. That is why when you get Gatti-Ward type of fights, they declare it a 'war'. War is more than a sport, and it's so badass, it has it's own category.

My new sig.

I think Jack raised some interesting points about MMA.

Most MMA fans can enjoy a fight that ends in 90 seconds & a lot of boxing fans get pissed when a fight ends in 90 seconds. I think that has a lot to do with the fact that when you shell out $50 for a HBO/Showtime fight card you genrally get average at best undercard fights but mostly house fighters getting easy wins over scrubs & a great (on paper at least) main event. If that main event does not live up to the hype you feel ripped off somewhat. A UFC PPV event usually has a balanced undercard with good fights & a good to great main event so even if the main event does not satisfy the overall card usually does.

The 5 minute rounds in MMA can feel overly long to a boxing fan & 3-5 rounds can seem short but a non championship fight goes for 6-10 rounds which is 18-30 minutes with 6-10 minutes of recovery time at shorter intervals. a 3 round MMA fight has 15 minutes of fighting with 3 minutes of recovery at longer intervals which is why fighter can appear to get gassed in fewer rounds. The same goes for championship fights 36 minutes of fighting with 12 minutes recovery & 25 minutes of fighting with 5 minutes recovery.

This may seem stupid to many on here & I am typing this throught half closed eyes but that is my opinion on this. Both sports (yes they are sports) take huge amounts of athletic ability, hard work & talent to be succesfull in.

Someone could probably explain it better than me but there is room for both combat sports it is just boxing continually shoots itself in the foot with the attitude & ego of the big names. In MMA you can have attitude & ego in MMA but at least you will continually get put to the test & have few "soft" fights as a champion.

Ever watched a fight between a boxer and a power puncher? Two guys doing differant things to attempt to win a fight. If your brother educates himself on MMA he will realize there are no more karate guys v/s wrestling v/s bjj...ect...ect...ect...

Its called MMA for a reason, The athletes crosstrain in many differant disciplines now. Just because a fighter got his start in K1 or Wrestling or BJJ, they are far from being type cast in that roll now. All World class fighters are crosstrained in numberous fighting styles.


its not what the ufc was when hoyce gracie first came onto the scene.

My main point being, the fighters like boxers have a style they are comfortable fighting in. Just because a fighter prefers grappling because of a wrestling or BJJ background, does not mean they lack the ability to fight in another style if they choose. Think Bj Penn and Anderson Silva.

I love how some of my fellow boxing fans have decided that Boxing is a "more refined sport" with their noses in the air. You can be hardcore fans of both. I disagree with it attracting differant fans as well. Almost all boxing fans love MMA, and MMA attracts fans who can no longer stomache boxing.

That being said we can do without the farces that are determined before they are fought, ala Hopkins v/s Delahoya.

I know, but there's no point in discussing with someone that is blind to the facts. I can't stand MMA but to NOT consider it a sport is among the most ridiculous things ever posted here.

I actually like the UFC better when it was karate vs biker bar fighter. or kick boxing vs. wrestler. I think the current system of everyone knowing how to do a whole bunch of things shittily makes it less entertaining.

Does the community believe that as a consensus it is fine for boxing and MMA to co-exist as two seperate sports, with neither one better than the other, just different?

Jack

I missed this the first time. Thanks Warlord, that's usually what I try to do, just call things down the middle. Whether I have an interest in one side or not.

Yeah I know, it was ridiculous. But when streetlion said that, sometimes when something I just cannot see. I would like to see how they get to that conclusion, lol.