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Jack 1000
For all comments about tonight's HBO doubleheader.

Jack

Administrator

Imperius3
Alexander should win a wide decision against Kotelnik without much trouble. I'm actually more interested in the co-feature, Tavoris Cloud versus Glen Johnson. This will be a much more entertaining fight and possibly a FOTY candidate. I know Johnson is old, and Cloud is younger and basically has the same style as Johnson, but I don't think Johnson is done to the point Cloud smashes him. I think it will be a competitive fight with Cloud winning a close decision. There should be a lot action, and Cloud will have to work for this one.
Rivado
I think Alexander has that killer instinct that will not allow Kotelnik to see the final bell in a high profile bout like tonight's. Devon is out to make a statement.
GinJapan
Does anyone have a good stream? If so, please message me with the link. Thanks in advance.
The Original MrFactor
Darn, had to leave to come to work half way through the Alexander/Kotelnik fight. Funny, that both fights were mirror images of each other.

The CEO
So did anyone else see Alexander get his ass whooped tonight??

I thought Kotelnik won 7-5...

Maybe now, people will realize that Bradley is smarter, more well rounded, just flat out BETTER than him...I'm sure Kellerman does at least...lol
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (The CEO @ Aug 7 2010, 11:57 PM) *
So did anyone else see Alexander get his ass whooped tonight??

I thought Kotelnik won 7-5...

Maybe now, people will realize that Bradley is smarter, more well rounded, just flat out BETTER than him...I'm sure Kellerman does at least...lol


Wouldn't say WHOOPED but you look at who was landing the head snapping blows and that was Kotelnik. Lederman was WAY off, I guess he likes activity over real punches. Alexander does have faster hands than Bradley and he has a good jab that was inefficient against Kotelnik's high guard but may land with more accuracy against Mini Holyfield.

Tavoris Cloud gets some leverage on his shots but the guy needs to pick up the activity level.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Aug 8 2010, 01:08 AM) *
Wouldn't say WHOOPED but you look at who was landing the head snapping blows and that was Kotelnik. Lederman was WAY off, I guess he likes activity over real punches. Alexander does have faster hands than Bradley and he has a good jab that was inefficient against Kotelnik's high guard but may land with more accuracy against Mini Holyfield.

Tavoris Cloud gets some leverage on his shots but the guy needs to pick up the activity level.



Bradley/AlexAnder will be interesting to say the least. Alexander looked like he was lost at times tonight. Many of his flashy jabs were NOT landing. Agreed, Timmy is a much different fighter from Kotelnik though. Timmy moves his head better than Kotelnik. However he doesnt have the high guard mastered. Also can Timmy hurt Alexander? Remains to be seen. i think the fight lost some luster after the lackluster performance that Alexander put on. I see Timmy roughing him up and smothering Alexanders punches on his way to an ugly rough decision.
Jack 1000
I had Cloud over Johnson 115-113. The old man did very well, but there were just a couple instances where he lost a couple of rounds with Cloud doing just a little more in critical moments. Nice little war.

Easy 118-110 for Alexander over Kotelnik. Kot tried, but Alexander was just quicker and speedier in most of the exchanges. Can't see Devon beating Bradley, although I think it would still be a war. I disagree with our CEO BIG TIME on this fight. LOL!

Jack
jkfitpro
The result was very fishy to me. 116-112? On all 3 cards? To Alexander? GTFOH! A draw would have been a GENEROUS outcome for Alexander.

Whatever your thoughts on the outcome, surely this makes Khan's clear and comprehensive beating of a younger Kotelnik all the more impressive, no?
Jack 1000
I actually think there might have been another round that I gave to Kotelnick for a 9-3 score. But that is as much as I could give him.

Jack
Jack 1000
QUOTE (jkfitpro @ Aug 8 2010, 04:32 AM) *
The result was very fishy to me. 116-112? On all 3 cards? To Alexander? GTFOH! A draw would have been a GENEROUS outcome for Alexander.

Whatever your thoughts on the outcome, surely this makes Khan's clear and comprehensive beating of a younger Kotelnik all the more impressive, no?


It would be interesting to see the break down of the rounds given to each fighter. Was their unanimous consent by the judges on the rounds that each fighter won?

Jack
jkfitpro
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 8 2010, 05:11 AM) *
It would be interesting to see the break down of the rounds given to each fighter. Was their unanimous consent by the judges on the rounds that each fighter won?

Jack


Not to my knowledge. I wasn't too concerned with the fact that they all scored it 116-112. I just can't see how they all clearly favoured Alexander 8-4 rounds, when i saw it go CLEARLY the other way.....
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The CEO @ Aug 7 2010, 11:57 PM) *
So did anyone else see Alexander get his ass whooped tonight??

I thought Kotelnik won 7-5...

Maybe now, people will realize that Bradley is smarter, more well rounded, just flat out BETTER than him...I'm sure Kellerman does at least...lol


yo ceo... i have to tell you i stopped watching the fight in bout the 8th or so round cuzz my girlfriend came over but my lil cuzzin, the one you plpay online against in fnr4 was watching the fights, and he tells me he is sure kotelink won that fight... i need to go back and watch it but one thing i can tell you from the 8 or so rounds i saw... alexander is not the top 140 lber... no sir!!!
D-MARV
I had it 115-113 for Kotelnik but it was a very close fight, No Robbery IMO.

I stand by my statement... KHAN is the Best 140lber.
JLUVBABY
i thought cloud beat an old johnson who doesnt seem to have that lil extra gear he had a few fights ago but his days are numbered as champ... dawson murders that guy... matter of fact i think my hometown homie chris henry can beat him and get him a strap....
JLUVBABY
interesting take on the alexander vs kotelnik fight... youtube subscription.. watch and enjoy.

caneman
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Aug 8 2010, 11:26 AM) *
I had it 115-113 for Kotelnik but it was a very close fight, No Robbery IMO.

I stand by my statement... KHAN is the Best 140lber.



I want Khan vs Bradley ASAP!

I fell asleep last night but in the 7th round as I am watching it now, 4-2 for Alexander! With that said, Kotelnik is giving him hell & Alexander is fighting Kotelnik's fight!
caneman
6-3 after 9 rounds but 2 were VERY close rounds!
JLUVBABY
like ive said i havent gone back and watched the fight i stopped watching it round the 8th or so round but maybe the fuss is cuzz no one expected this fight to even be close... this was supposed to be a showcase fight for devon....
caneman
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Aug 8 2010, 12:14 PM) *
like ive said i havent gone back and watched the fight i stopped watching it round the 8th or so round but maybe the fuss is cuzz no one expected this fight to even be close... this was supposed to be a showcase fight for devon....



IMO, no matter what you have the score in this fight, round for round it was a close fight! It looks like my score 8-4 ish but again, there were some very close rounds & Alexander fought when he needed to box!
caneman
Great fight, I'll say that much!
caneman
Alexander had a shirt that said Bradley U next...that works for me & the winner fights Khan! Why do I feel that is only wishful thinking?
The CEO
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 8 2010, 03:27 AM) *
I had Cloud over Johnson 115-113. The old man did very well, but there were just a couple instances where he lost a couple of rounds with Cloud doing just a little more in critical moments. Nice little war.

Easy 118-110 for Alexander over Kotelnik. Kot tried, but Alexander was just quicker and speedier in most of the exchanges. Can't see Devon beating Bradley, although I think it would still be a war. I disagree with our CEO BIG TIME on this fight. LOL!

Jack


I had Cloud by the same, Jack...but WOWZERS on your main event card....lol....all I saw from Alexander was an overabundance of extremely fast, missing punches...

Kotelnik was snapping his head back all night long...timing the shit out of him....it was like he couldn't miss the right side of Alexander's face...

I think this was a serious exposal...


QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Aug 8 2010, 11:25 AM) *
yo ceo... i have to tell you i stopped watching the fight in bout the 8th or so round cuzz my girlfriend came over but my lil cuzzin, the one you plpay online against in fnr4 was watching the fights, and he tells me he is sure kotelink won that fight... i need to go back and watch it but one thing i can tell you from the 8 or so rounds i saw... alexander is not the top 140 lber... no sir!!!


No doubt...a Draw is the extreme most it could be for Alexander...maybe this was a very off night for him...but any which way, Bradley is better than him.

Replace Kotelnik with a prime Tszyu last night, and we might have seen Alexander do an involuntary Judah impersonation...lol
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 8 2010, 02:27 AM) *
Easy 118-110 for Alexander over Kotelnik.

Maybe on Mars...
Jack 1000
Very divergent scores for sure in Alexander-Kotelnik. I saw a lopsided fight and so did several others. (I went back and actually had it 9-3 for Alexander or 117-111, not 118-110.) We had other people who saw a close fight and their several others. Can't call incompetence on those who scored wide, because it was a fight where it came down to an interpretation of style. I liked the activity, boxing skills and combos of Alexander seeing him as the busier fighter. Occasionally, Kotelnik would land with a hard shot or two, but the boxing work of Alexander IMO was better than Kotelnik.

I do think Kotelnik tried very hard. He has balls, and if courage alone won fights, he would be a winner, but he was just out-boxed too much in the early and middle rounds. He rallied but it was too late. In the old days of 15 round fights, I think Kotelnik would have done better and made it closer. Alexander WAS getting tired I thought around the 10th round, but the first eight rounds he was doing more. Kotelnik ran out of rounds that he needed to complete his rally. and remember that close rounds almost always go to either the champion or the more marketable fighter in most instances of judging.

You have to earn that title as a challenger most of the time by wining definitively from a champion, especially in the champions' own backyard.

I do have to say that I was SHOCKED by the level of inexperience going into the Cloud-Johnson fight, of the resumes of the judges. I don't know what was up with that?

Jack
gravytrain
QUOTE (caneman @ Aug 8 2010, 12:30 PM) *
Alexander had a shirt that said Bradley U next...that works for me & the winner fights Khan! Why do I feel that is only wishful thinking?



Kellerman was spot on; a weak performance by Alexander does more to make the fight happen than a strong performance. I think GBP and Khan will see the performance and want to make a fight.
jkfitpro
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Aug 8 2010, 11:26 AM) *
I had it 115-113 for Kotelnik but it was a very close fight, No Robbery IMO.

I stand by my statement... KHAN is the Best 140lber.


This is pretty much how i see it. If Khan's not the best he's RIGHT up there with Bradley. Khan thoroughly disposed of Kotelnik last year. After the criticism Khan has taken on these boards, it aint surprising how no-one wants to reflect on that little point there.....
Jack 1000
QUOTE (jkfitpro @ Aug 8 2010, 01:06 PM) *
This is pretty much how i see it. If Khan's not the best he's RIGHT up there with Bradley. Khan thoroughly disposed of Kotelnik last year. After the criticism Khan has taken on these boards, it aint surprising how no-one wants to reflect on that little point there.....


I think Bradley is probably the number one guy right now. Even though Khan has bounced back, I would still like him to avenge that Prescott humiliation. I do think that when a guy gets shockingly blitzed like that, it shows a vulnerable chin. I think Khan could get blitzed again by a hard puncher.

I want to see Alexander-Bradley!

Jack
jkfitpro
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 8 2010, 02:24 PM) *
I think Bradley is probably the number one guy right now. Even though Khan has bounced back, I would still like him to avenge that Prescott humiliation. I do think that when a guy gets shockingly blitzed like that, it shows a vulnerable chin. I think Khan could get blitzed again by a hard puncher.

I want to see Alexander-Bradley!

Jack


I totally agree about the unfinished business with Prescott. I see him handily beating him in a rematch. You're right thought, there IS a huge question mark around Khan's chin. I wouldn't say i'd be shocked if he gets KO'd against one of the top level operators. In every other department however, i think he is truly world class.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (The CEO @ Aug 8 2010, 12:30 PM) *
I had Cloud by the same, Jack...but WOWZERS on your main event card....lol....all I saw from Alexander was an overabundance of extremely fast, missing punches...

Kotelnik was snapping his head back all night long...timing the shit out of him....it was like he couldn't miss the right side of Alexander's face...

I think this was a serious exposal...




No doubt...a Draw is the extreme most it could be for Alexander...maybe this was a very off night for him...but any which way, Bradley is better than him.

Replace Kotelnik with a prime Tszyu last night, and we might have seen Alexander do an involuntary Judah impersonation...lol


I'm thinking about this as well. I'm really interested in whether Alexander looked bad because Kotelnik improved from the Khan fight (he had a new trainer, a "brother" as Dmarv put it), whether he was overconfident (being in his hometown against a guy who didn't hit hard or exceptionally fast) or whether he just isn't that good. One we do know for certain is that his neck must be hurting right now.
kidbazooka1
Damn i was praising Alexander big time leading up to the fight but he looked like sh*t i don't know if it was his inexperience or what but he didn't look like the Alexander of late but i still would pick hi mto beat Bradley though.

I was pretty big on Cloud aswell and though he did what he had to do to wi nthe fight but he still needs a lot of work.
Lil-lightsout
Beating Malignaggi and getting KTFO from a nobody, does NOT qualify Khan as the best 140 pounder. I just don't get the logic.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Aug 9 2010, 01:21 AM) *
Beating Malignaggi and getting KTFO from a nobody, does NOT qualify Khan as the best 140 pounder. I just don't get the logic.


C'mon! Paulie's platinum!! laugh.gif

Khan for my liking stands a little too tall (especially for a guy with a china chin) and has that kind of awkward robotic European style. I think Roach has his work cut out for him. What I will say though is he looks BIG for 140 pounds.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Aug 9 2010, 02:21 AM) *
Beating Malignaggi and getting KTFO from a nobody, does NOT qualify Khan as the best 140 pounder. I just don't get the logic.

I don't think anyone said he had the best resume at 140lb.

I personally feel that he's the best fighter in the weight class. I'm 80% sure he beats Alexander on the Jab alone. I think he out boxes Bradley as well.
JLUVBABY
My boy Chris Henry can beat cloud.... If johnson can make it close henry I think can get him out of there..... It would be a slugfest but my boy can knock out a mule...
Fitz
Didn't score the Alexander-Kotelnik fight, though I think early rounds were close enough that Alexander won early rounds, though they weren't clear (I gave Alexander rounds, though they could have been given to Kotelnik). Kotelnik won his rounds later a lot more clear than Alexander won his. I don't have a problem with the decision, I think at best you could have Alexander by 1-2 points, at worst for Alexander, it could have been 3-4 points the other way. Don't have a problem with the decision. I think Kotelnik won his rounds more clearly and won more of then clearly. Though a few close rounds and it just depends on who you gave them too. In the end, if you gave close ones to Alexander, he could have walked away with the victory, it just seems weird doing it when a guy wins his rounds a lot more clearly.
Just remember at the end of the day, you don't generally get rewarded by winning your rounds more clearly than the other guy. You edge a round and then lose a round clearly, in the end the scores are still 1-1, no matter how clearly a round was won.
Keith
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Aug 9 2010, 02:56 PM) *
I don't think anyone said he had the best resume at 140lb.

I personally feel that he's the best fighter in the weight class. I'm 80% sure he beats Alexander on the Jab alone. I think he out boxes Bradley as well.


...and then gets ko'd by Maidana, Ortiz, and possibly Kotelnik. haha.gif

I know you like Khan. And you know I like Maidana... so I'm being a bit serious but really just trying to bust your balls. laugh.gif
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 9 2010, 07:10 PM) *
Didn't score the Alexander-Kotelnik fight, though I think early rounds were close enough that Alexander won early rounds, though they weren't clear (I gave Alexander rounds, though they could have been given to Kotelnik). Kotelnik won his rounds later a lot more clear than Alexander won his. I don't have a problem with the decision, I think at best you could have Alexander by 1-2 points, at worst for Alexander, it could have been 3-4 points the other way. Don't have a problem with the decision. I think Kotelnik won his rounds more clearly and won more of then clearly. Though a few close rounds and it just depends on who you gave them too. In the end, if you gave close ones to Alexander, he could have walked away with the victory, it just seems weird doing it when a guy wins his rounds a lot more clearly.
Just remember at the end of the day, you don't generally get rewarded by winning your rounds more clearly than the other guy. You edge a round and then lose a round clearly, in the end the scores are still 1-1, no matter how clearly a round was won.


Good observation,

Most of the time, it's also common for unofficial and official judges to give close rounds to the undefeated or more marketable guy. We also don't know what the attitudes were of the people who attended the fight concerning who won. OK, in person, sure most are going to say Alexander, because it is Devon's hometown. But this could be a fight like Mosely-Delahoya II where almost everyone at home had Delahoya winning and almost everyone at ringside had Alexander winning, and for whatever reason, the scores of about thirty people who gave the fight to Alexander, differed from the sixty who had Kotelnik ahead.

This verdict might be made out to be more than it is because of Alexander fighting in his hometown and being undefeated. Was the consensus among Ringside that Kotilnik was robbed? I would say, probably not. We had just a close fight where did you like the busier work and boxing of Alexander or the late rally and harder single shots of Kotilnik. You could make this fight lopsided for either guy, or close for either guy, which is an abnormality in boxing. It comes down to the busier fighter or the more accurate puncher.

The focus should be shifted to the great fight this was for action, considering the shit we have been getting recently rather than the decision.

Jack
Keith
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 9 2010, 10:10 PM) *
The focus should be shifted to the great fight this was for action, considering the shit we have been getting recently rather than the decision.

Jack


Yes... very true.

I also dont have a problem with the close fight going to the champ in this fight. Alexander can go on and make a compelling match from here. I'm not sure Kotelnik could. Its important in this case.
JD
QUOTE (Keith @ Aug 9 2010, 09:58 PM) *
...and then gets ko'd by Maidana, Ortiz, and possibly Kotelnik. haha.gif

I know you like Khan. And you know I like Maidana... so I'm being a bit serious but really just trying to bust your balls. laugh.gif


He already shut Kotelnik out though.

I think Khan - Maidana would be interesting, but I lean toward Khan...and I would take him over Alexander too. The Bradley fight would be interesting, but again, I lean toward Khan in that one.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Keith @ Aug 9 2010, 09:58 PM) *
...and then gets ko'd by Maidana, Ortiz, and possibly Kotelnik. haha.gif

I know you like Khan. And you know I like Maidana... so I'm being a bit serious but really just trying to bust your balls. laugh.gif

Ironically, Maidana has the best chance out of them all IMO. Only because he can just close his eyes and swing for the fences. My money would be on Khan KOing at some point though. Look, I hate to say this because I think Ariza is the biggest cheat in the sport right now but Khan is a fucking Animal.

And for the record... Khan gives Floyd a tougher fight than Pacquiao... LOL, Yeah I said it.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Keith @ Aug 9 2010, 09:22 PM) *
Yes... very true.

I also dont have a problem with the close fight going to the champ in this fight. Alexander can go on and make a compelling match from here. I'm not sure Kotelnik could. Its important in this case.


And what's also important is that it might put us a step closer to Alexander-Bradley, a fight that probably would not have ment as much if Kotilnik had won.

Jack
gravytrain
The UD with close scoring is a double-edged sword. On one hand Alexander didn't live up to the expectations of many, on the other hand his poor performance will have the rest of the division more eager to fight him. I'd much rather see Alexander/Bradley or Alexander/Khan than Alexander getting the KO or TKO over Kotelnik.

Fitz
Also, when we have a fight between a champion against an underdog he is supposed to beat. Sub-consciously I think people often side with the underdog in a close fight, it's like people feel that an underdog doesn't have to quite as much, or if a champion under achieves and makes a fight close that shouldn't, that the champion probably doesn't deserve it for disappointing. While if it were between just two guys at the same level, the decision probably wouldn't be talked about as much and would just consider it a close fight.
I thought Kotelnik did more and I am just not talking about this fight specifically, though 'robbery' gets thrown around quite easily and I think people sub-consciously punish a fighter for under performing. I notice it quite a bit when a champion gets a close decision, it's often translated to 'robbery'.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Aug 9 2010, 02:56 PM) *
I don't think anyone said he had the best resume at 140lb.

I personally feel that he's the best fighter in the weight class. I'm 80% sure he beats Alexander on the Jab alone. I think he out boxes Bradley as well.


After seeing him get his chin cracked, IMO I just can not see him withstanding an attack from Bradley without getting stopped at some point. Bradley has shown major toughness after being decked and getting back up, where Khan folded under pressure. But it's cool if you still think he is the best 140 pounder.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 9 2010, 11:48 PM) *
Also, when we have a fight between a champion against an underdog he is supposed to beat. Sub-consciously I think people often side with the underdog in a close fight, it's like people feel that an underdog doesn't have to quite as much, or if a champion under achieves and makes a fight close that shouldn't, that the champion probably doesn't deserve it for disappointing. While if it were between just two guys at the same level, the decision probably wouldn't be talked about as much and would just consider it a close fight.
I thought Kotelnik did more and I am just not talking about this fight specifically, though 'robbery' gets thrown around quite easily and I think people sub-consciously punish a fighter for under performing. I notice it quite a bit when a champion gets a close decision, it's often translated to 'robbery'.


Agreed. Look Devon had a bad night but pulled through a win. It happens. Let's see how he does in the next fight before writing him off. I learned that the hard way. After watching Holyfield fight Bert CooperI thought he had no chance against Tyson.
Keith
QUOTE (JD @ Aug 9 2010, 10:24 PM) *
He already shut Kotelnik out though.


Shhhhhh... laugh.gif

QUOTE (D-MARV @ Aug 9 2010, 10:55 PM) *
Ironically, Maidana has the best chance out of them all IMO. Only because he can just close his eyes and swing for the fences.


Maidana does more then just swing for the fences. He reminds me of the prime welterweight Mayorga but more fundamentally sound, more accurate with his punches, and better conditioning.

... and I see a Maidana Khan fight going down like Mayorga Forrest I.
Big Slim Sweet
You could see as early as the first round Alexander was about to be in for a tougher than expected fight. To his credit he stayed active and worked his ass off in there, and he never lost his composure with the cut and all. There's something to be said for that.

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now and say that for whatever reason he just had an off night. Home crowd jitters, an undisclosed injury, a tough style match-up, something like that. If he looks average next time out we have a problem. But for now I'll still ride with him over Bradley or anyone else at 140.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 9 2010, 10:48 PM) *
Also, when we have a fight between a champion against an underdog he is supposed to beat. Sub-consciously I think people often side with the underdog in a close fight, it's like people feel that an underdog doesn't have to quite as much, or if a champion under achieves and makes a fight close that shouldn't, that the champion probably doesn't deserve it for disappointing. While if it were between just two guys at the same level, the decision probably wouldn't be talked about as much and would just consider it a close fight.
I thought Kotelnik did more and I am just not talking about this fight specifically, though 'robbery' gets thrown around quite easily and I think people sub-consciously punish a fighter for under performing. I notice it quite a bit when a champion gets a close decision, it's often translated to 'robbery'.

Co-sign.
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