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kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 8 2010, 08:26 PM) *
Look at the notable guys he beat

Dan Henderson - Jake Shields mounted him for 4 rounds and gave him a whooping.

Nate Marquardt - Chael Sonnen beat him up

Rich Franklin - Vitor Belfort gave him just as much of a beating as Silva did

Damian Maia - knocked out in like 10 seconds by Nate the Great, and Silva couldn't finish him in 5 rounds!

Patrick Cote - gets hit a lot, easy fight for Silva

Forrest Griffin - Rashad Evans KOd him

Thales Leites - sucks haha and Silva couldn't finish him

James Irvin - got KOd by Sakara

Travis Lutter - been finished by Franklin, Lindland, Rivera

Chris Leben - had just lost to Rosholt and Bisbing


Bro i could do the same with the list of fighters you mentioned under Fedor, BJ and Couture so that to me means nothing whatsoever.

herer you go.....

Matt Serra-a b level fighter at best

Caol UNo-give me a break the guy gets beat within seconds then comes back and draws with BJ

Joe Stevenson-has never amounted to nothing

Diego SAnchez-jus got whooped by that new kid from England

Pulver-Bj lost to him back in there primes then he beat a past his prime Pulver

Renzo-old ass Renzop gracie even at that time he was already past his best

Kenny Florian-give me a break another TV hyped reality fighter

Adrei Arlovski-who hasn't won a fight in god knows how long and get KTFO everytime he steps up.

Tim Sylvia-who got annihalted by Old ass Ray Mercer within seconds.

Kevin randleman-a one rd fighter and nothing else

Heat Herring-a journey men who losses almost as much as he wins

Goodrich-Gary was never nothing special even in the early UFC days

Lindland-a natural MW fighting a HW now that was a joke

Coleman-again an ancient coleman some 8 yrs past his prime

You see bro i could do the same with almots every fighter and counter some comments you made as you might be able to do aswell but it's just dumb and again your the one sounding very stupid right now.


Yu guys might not consider Silva the GOAT but myself and many MMA writers do.

I can give creditto Sonnen and say he put up a helluva fight and did much better than i ever expected but he still lost and like he himself said Silva was and still is KING.

Silva has fought the best and beaten them he is undefeated in the UFC which in it's self is a great feat already given the level of comp the UFC has over the other organizations and he has provne himself time and time again.


There is no fighter going today who i can rank ahead of him. Though i will say that I think Jose Aldo will do big things in the future and might one day rival Anderson accomplishments but ofcourse it's much too soon to even go there right now.
Warlord
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 8 2010, 08:47 PM) *
Yu guys might not consider Silva the GOAT but myself and many MMA writers do.

Find one credible MMA writer who is on record proclaiming Anderson Silva as the greatest fighter of all time.

QUOTE
I can give credit to Sonnen and say he put up a helluva fight and did much better than i ever expected but he still lost and like he himself said Silva was and still is KING.

How many KINGS get down on their hands and knees and BOW DOWN to another? Because that's what Anderson Silva did. Literally. Put his belt down, dropped to his knees and bowed down at the feet of Chael Sonnen. You guys can sit here all day everyday claiming Silva is the goat, and pretend that getting DOMINATED for 4 and a half rounds was all part of Silva's master-plan, but it doesn't change facts.

I said it before, and I will say it again. Anderson Silva is a product of the UFC hype machine. Period. He got dominated by a second-rate wrestler. What will he do against Vitor Belfort? Or Jake Shields? Could he even beat a blown-up welterweight like GSP? Anderson Silva is light years from being worthy of mention alongside greats like Fedor.

QUOTE
Silva has fought the best and beaten them

He has? Where was I when this happened?

He won't fight Shogun, he won't fight Machida, he won't fight Rogerio Nogueira. WTF? You claimed you wanted the belt at 205 and now you see Shogun rightfully wearing the strap and you can't get the fuck out of Dodge fast enough? That ain't GOAT material to me.


QUOTE
There is no fighter going today who i can rank ahead of him.

That's okay. There's a ton of fighters I, and plenty of others, would rank ahead of him.
Box in Hand
When Lesner got owned in the first round of his last fight and came back to win people were claiming he is the baddest man ever. Enter the Silva vs Sonnen fight and it's a different tune. Silva stayed composed and pulled out a victory. He has beaten everyone put in front of him thus far in the UFC and that makes him worthy of respect.
Warlord
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Aug 8 2010, 11:49 PM) *
When Lesner got owned in the first round of his last fight and came back to win people were claiming he is the baddest man ever. Enter the Silva vs Sonnen fight and it's a different tune. Silva stayed composed and pulled out a victory. He has beaten everyone put in front of him thus far in the UFC and that makes him worthy of respect.

Dude, no one is saying he isn't worthy of respect. Some of us just refuse to blindly accept the UFC hype machine's notion that Anderson Silva is somehow the greatest fighter that ever lived. He isn't.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 8 2010, 10:43 PM) *
Find one credible MMA writer who is on record proclaiming Anderson Silva as the greatest fighter of all time.


How many KINGS get down on their hands and knees and BOW DOWN to another? Because that's what Anderson Silva did. Literally. Put his belt down, dropped to his knees and bowed down at the feet of Chael Sonnen. You guys can sit here all day everyday claiming Silva is the goat, and pretend that getting DOMINATED for 4 and a half rounds was all part of Silva's master-plan, but it doesn't change facts.

I said it before, and I will say it again. Anderson Silva is a product of the UFC hype machine. Period. He got dominated by a second-rate wrestler. What will he do against Vitor Belfort? Or Jake Shields? Could he even beat a blown-up welterweight like GSP? Anderson Silva is light years from being worthy of mention alongside greats like Fedor.


He won't fight Shogun, he won't fight Machida, he won't fight Rogerio Nogueira. WTF? You claimed you wanted the belt at 205 and now you see Shogun rightfully wearing the strap and you can't get the fuck out of Dodge fast enough? That ain't GOAT material to me.


C'mon War don't make it seem like Shogun has been calling out for Anderson every opportunity given he has stated that he would fight Anderson and Anderson has also stated that he would fight Shogun. As for MAchida they are friends War you should know that they won't fight each othe plaine nad simple.

Also Shogun has stated in Fighers Only magazine that whne they were all in chutebox together and this includes Wanderlie that Anderson always had more talent than the rest including himself and that he admired Silva aswell but they were neever the best of freinds and he would fight him if the UFC wanted.

Now your mentioning Vitor and Shileds give me a f*cking break War don't let the hate make you say stupid sh*t bro. Vitor and Shields can't beat Anderson. Shields ain't got Sonnens wrestling ability and Vitor would get worked on the feet. Lets keep it real man don't get carried away with this sh*t. Anderson has fought everyone the UFC has put in fron of him incuding beating the sh*t out of a guy who submitted Shogun.

Fedor hasn't fought a top HW in yrs and was highly criticised for that and when the UFC tried to sign him so he can challlenge the best he priced himself out and got trinagled by Werdum of all people.

The bowing down sh*t was all out of respect because Sonnen put up a helluva fight and Silva is all inot that bowing sh*t anyway so thats just what he does so f*Cking what he still subbed his ass at the end of the day.

War I tell you what if and when Anderson fights Shogun i will make any kinda of bet you want that Anderosn will put it on his ass and take the 205lb belt by TKO or sub and i say that becuase unlike Sonnen who just came to hold you down and throw pitty pat punches most of the time Shogun will actually come and fight and by doing so he'll get crushed brutaly..
Warlord
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 9 2010, 02:01 AM) *
C'mon War don't make it seem like Shogun has been calling out for Anderson every opportunity given he has stated that he would fight Anderson and Anderson has also stated that he would fight Shogun. As for MAchida they are friends War you should know that they won't fight each othe plaine nad simple.

Everyone else fights friends. Fighters fight, man, it's what they do. It's just funny to me Anderson's friends are all top guys that could give him a go.

QUOTE
Now your mentioning Vitor and Shileds give me a f*cking break War don't let the hate make you say stupid sh*t bro. Vitor and Shields can't beat Anderson. Shields ain't got Sonnens wrestling ability and Vitor would get worked on the feet.

Anderson nearly got stopped in the 1st round by Chael fucking Sonnen, bro. Don't tell me Vitor would get worked if he stands with Anderson. Vitor has got some of the heaviest hands in the sport. He always has. It's not etched in stone that Silva outstrikes Vitor before getting caught with something big. And Vitor has the superior ground game as well.

As for Shields, are you serious? I have no love for Shields, but the kid's got a wicked ground game. He's a better fighter than Sonnen, and he won't get triangled late in a fight the way Sonnen perpetually does.

You don't want me to say dumb shit, well, I don't want you saying it either bro. Anderson Silva got pounded for 4 and a half rounds by Chael fucking Sonnen. You've got no legs to stand on when you immediately try to dismiss a fighter like Vitor Belfort, or Jake Shields.

QUOTE
Fedor hasn't fought a top HW in yrs

1.) He most certainly has.
2.) Fedor has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.


QUOTE
The bowing down sh*t was all out of respect because Sonnen put up a helluva fight and Silva is all inot that bowing sh*t anyway so thats just what he does so f*Cking what he still subbed his ass at the end of the day.

How many other opponents did Silva bow down to?

QUOTE
War I tell you what if and when Anderson fights Shogun i will make any kinda of bet you want that Anderosn will put it on his ass and take the 205lb belt by TKO or sub .

This fight will never happen. Silva was all about fighting at 205 till he saw his girlfriend get wrecked twice by Shogun. Now suddenly he says he don't want the belt anymore. Why not motherfucker? What were you doing even fighting at 205 if you weren't looking at the title?

Let me ask you something dude, and please, just answer me honestly because I'm going somewhere with this. If Anderson Silva had lost to Chael Sonnen, would you really be on here today arguing the position that he is the greatest fighter that ever lived?
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 9 2010, 02:23 AM) *
Everyone else fights friends. Fighters fight, man, it's what they do. It's just funny to me Anderson's friends are all top guys that could give him a go.


Anderson nearly got stopped in the 1st round by Chael fucking Sonnen, bro. Don't tell me Vitor would get worked if he stands with Anderson. Vitor has got some of the heaviest hands in the sport. He always has. It's not etched in stone that Silva outstrikes Vitor before getting caught with something big. And Vitor has the superior ground game as well.

As for Shields, are you serious? I have no love for Shields, but the kid's got a wicked ground game. He's a better fighter than Sonnen, and he won't get triangled late in a fight the way Sonnen perpetually does.

You don't want me to say dumb shit, well, I don't want you saying it either bro. Anderson Silva got pounded for 4 and a half rounds by Chael fucking Sonnen. You've got no legs to stand on when you immediately try to dismiss a fighter like Vitor Belfort, or Jake Shields.


1.) He most certainly has.
2.) Fedor has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.



How many other opponents did Silva bow down to?


This fight will never happen. Silva was all about fighting at 205 till he saw his girlfriend get wrecked twice by Shogun. Now suddenly he says he don't want the belt anymore. Why not motherfucker? What were you doing even fighting at 205 if you weren't looking at the title?

Let me ask you something dude, and please, just answer me honestly because I'm going somewhere with this. If Anderson Silva had lost to Chael Sonnen, would you really be on here today arguing the position that he is the greatest fighter that ever lived?


Had Anderson lost yes i would still say he will go down as the GOAT but the bottom line is he didn't and thats all that matters. Many great fighters go through sh*t like this and always find a way to win just like Silva did.

Hell yeah i gotta dismiss Shields he almost got KTFO by a 40 yr old Henderson what do you think Anderson would do to him.

Sonnen landed a lucky punch that caught Anderson cold in the first rd thats why Anderson let him hit him right after that like 4-5 times on purpose to show him he couldn't hurt him. Anderson landed that beautiful standing elbow that dropped Sonnen in the 4th and almost had him out.

As for Vitor i actually like him he is the one who got me into MMA back in 97' with UFC 112 but ever since losing to Couture he had never been the same. Vitor always had the skills to become one of the great ones but mentally he was weak that has awlays been his down fall. You can't be a weak minded fighter going in with Anderson poor Vitor would be beat before the first bell even rings.

Warlord
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 9 2010, 02:34 AM) *
Had Anderson lost yes i would still say he will go down as the GOAT but the bottom line is he didn't and thats all that matters. Many great fighters go through sh*t like this and always find a way to win just like Silva did.

No, many great fighters don't go through shit like that. It's one thing to get caught with a fluke punch. It's another to get caught in a quick submission. But no, not every great fighter consistently gets dominated b sub-par competition the way Anderson Silva does. It's a recurring theme in his career. He struggles with guys that he should, by all rights, be finishing in the 1st round.

QUOTE
Hell yeah i gotta dismiss Shields he almost got KTFO by a 40 yr old Henderson

Then I gotta dismiss Anderson. At least Henderson is NOTORIOUS for that ungodly right hand of his. Anderson nearly got KTFO by a one-dimensional wrestler who never, at any previous point in his career, displayed even a modicum of striking talent.

QUOTE
What do you think Anderson would do to him.

Try to Homer Simpson his way through 4 and a half rounds of pure domination and hope he can pull another submission out of his ass?

QUOTE
Sonnen landed a lucky punch that caught Anderson cold in the first rd

See, that's just shit. Chael threw a punch and he connected. How the fuck was that luck?

QUOTE
Thats why Anderson let him hit him right after that like 4-5 times on purpose to show him he couldn't hurt him.

...After Sonnen had already hurt him. Gotcha. Brilliant.

QUOTE
Anderson landed that beautiful standing elbow that dropped Sonnen in the 4th and almost had him out.

I'm sure that was just a lucky elbow on Anderson's part. rolleyes_anim.gif

QUOTE
As for Vitor i actually like him he is the one who got me into MMA back in 97' with UFC 112 but ever since losing to Couture he had never been the same. Vitor always had the skills to become one of the great ones but mentally he was weak that has awlays been his down fall. You can't be a weak minded fighter going in with Anderson poor Vitor would be beat before the first bell even rings.

Vitor is mentally weak, I totally agree with you there. So is Anderson. Guess they belong in the octagon together after all.
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE
Bazooka said: Thats why Anderson let him hit him right after that like 4-5 times on purpose to show him he couldn't hurt him.

To which Warlord said: ...After Sonnen had already hurt him. Gotcha. Brilliant.


Lmfao canidate for the greatest OWNED post off all time.

Kid Bazooka has no idea how dumb he sounds.

He can continue to scratch at the door, but all of his barking still isnt going to make Silva the GOAT.

Case Closed
AussieLad
A great can have losses on his resume and still be great. Some people take time to reach their full potential, and i think previous losses can be set aside when examining the fighter they eventually evolve into. Its the fighter at the pinnacle of his game when people talk prime vs prime, not the dude still mid evolution. Of course those losses get factored into an all time standing equation, but when your examining prime vs prime, peak vs peak, the losses dont mean a thing if a guy has evolved into a different beast, an animal that can overcome situations where they would have at one time fallen

I think this can be applied to both Sonnen and Silva. Sonnen was at his peak. It was no fluke. He was peaking vs Marquardt as well, and Nate is no push over. Until the beat down at the hands of sonnen he was a clear 2nd in the division, and Chael owned his ass. Chael owned Silva, a clear 4 rounds to zip. And then he got caught... shit happens. Credit to Silva for pulling the sub out of his ass, but it was fucking lucky. He wasnt letting tension build for dramatic purposes before pulling the switch. He was getting his ass handed to him.
Run and Gun Game Calls
Thats another reason why Dana White wouldnt commit to a sonnen v/s Silva rematch after the fight. He saw his so called superfight between GSP and Silva almost go up in smoke.

Lmao, Dana was like oh we will see what happens, there is alot going on in the division right now.

his p4p fighter got exposed as not so elite afterall. Not saying Silva isnt very good, but p4p right now, or GOAT? Nope
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 9 2010, 02:48 AM) *
No, many great fighters don't go through shit like that. It's one thing to get caught with a fluke punch. It's another to get caught in a quick submission. But no, not every great fighter consistently gets dominated b sub-par competition the way Anderson Silva does. It's a recurring theme in his career. He struggles with guys that he should, by all rights, be finishing in the 1st round.


Then I gotta dismiss Anderson. At least Henderson is NOTORIOUS for that ungodly right hand of his. Anderson nearly got KTFO by a one-dimensional wrestler who never, at any previous point in his career, displayed even a modicum of striking talent.


Try to Homer Simpson his way through 4 and a half rounds of pure domination and hope he can pull another submission out of his ass?


See, that's just shit. Chael threw a punch and he connected. How the fuck was that luck?


...After Sonnen had already hurt him. Gotcha. Brilliant.


I'm sure that was just a lucky elbow on Anderson's part. rolleyes_anim.gif


Vitor is mentally weak, I totally agree with you there. So is Anderson. Guess they belong in the octagon together after all.


Are you listeing to youself War you just said Sonnen almost KTFO of Silva i assume you mean in the first rd if so your lossing in bro how the f*ck was Silva almost KTFO he got caught with a right that sent him back had he been seriousley hurt those follow up shots that Sonnen hit him with after would have finsihed him c'mon War lets not start maeking sh*t up man.

And can you please tell me how in the world Silva is mentaly has hasn't lost in 6 yrs has 12 straight wins aginst top ranked fighters and jus had a come from behind win at the last minute. Had Silva been mentaly weak like you claim he never would have been able to come back from that fight.

And you say great fighter dson't have comebacls that they may only get a quick fluke sub or KO but i tell you what i much rather be Silva who lost 4rds and then come back and sub my opponent then be Fedor a get owned and embarassed by Werdum within a single f*cking minute.

Bottom line is Fedor got owned Silva almost got owned but almost don't cut it. Silva still reigns supreme.

Now it's case close my friends.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 9 2010, 03:40 AM) *
Lmfao canidate for the greatest OWNED post off all time.

Kid Bazooka has no idea how dumb he sounds.

He can continue to scratch at the door, but all of his barking still isnt going to make Silva the GOAT.

Case Closed


Did you even watch the fight bro?

Go look it up and tell me Anderson didn't put his hands down on purpose and let Sonnen hit him with those follow up shots it's as clear as f*cking day. Anderson does that kinda sh*t. Just like when he let Santiago hit him flush on the chin before stopping him. Anderson like most great fighters has that bit of cockiness to him and he clearly wanted to show that he wasn't that hurt.

Owned my ass. LOL
Run and Gun Game Calls
yes i saw the fight, and silva was rocked. He didnt let shit happen.

Differance in fedors loss and silvas almost loss is, fedor was the aggressor in his fight and winning, just got caught in a sub. Silva on the other hand was getting his ass kicked and found a submission. It is a habit of sonnens to leave himself open to that sub. Silva winning was more a product of a habitual mistake his opponent makes. What have most of sonnens losses come by? Triangle choke.

Why are dana white and ed sorros running from a rematch as quickly as possible?

As for silva not losing in 6 years while fighting top competition, thats a plain and simple lie. I have posted his best wins and it was far from top comp. You need to slide his balls back in your mouth so we quit hearing you spew ignorant fabricated shit
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 9 2010, 11:38 AM) *
yes i saw the fight, and silva was rocked. He didnt let shit happen.

Differance in fedors loss and silvas almost loss is, fedor was the aggressor in his fight and winning, just got caught in a sub. Silva on the other hand was getting his ass kicked and found a submission. It is a habit of sonnens to leave himself open to that sub. Silva winning was more a product of a habitual mistake his opponent makes. What have most of sonnens losses come by? Triangle choke.

Why are dana white and ed sorros running from a rematch as quickly as possible?

As for silva not losing in 6 years while fighting top competition, thats a plain and simple lie. I have posted his best wins and it was far from top comp. You need to slide his balls back in your mouth so we quit hearing you spew ignorant fabricated shit


Wow you are something else. hahahha

Dude i really don't know what to tell you cause people like you will believe what they want to believe.

So answer me this you would rather be Fedor and get subbed in a minute then be Silva and score one of the biggest MMA comebacks and still win? Be f*cking honest now.

Anderson has faught and beaten Franklin, Hendo, Marquadt, Griffin, Maia, Leites, Sonnen all ranked fighters at the time. So don't give me that BS .

Tell me who the f*ck has Fedor been fighting he has been widely criticised for not fighting top HW competition for a while now.

Also check out Elit figher Magazine i believe it was a jan or feb issue they compiled a list of the 50 greatets MMA fighters of all time and guess who was number 1 Anderson Silva.

Like i've said im not the only one that thinks this but since you guys obviously don't agree well then myself and those magazines and therde writers must be wrong and you guys are right. hahahah

Run and Gun Game Calls
I personally believe the people who follow the fights in boxing or mma, on boards like this are as well, if not more educated about the fighting sports than many of those who hold a job at a magazine writing about fighting.

You believe because a writer calls someone the GOAT it makes it so? They are more qualified than the majority of educated fight fans to make that decision? Their Decision to major in journalism classes somehow made them be able to better break down a fighter, than many here that have huge fight collections and have followed and researched fighters for years?



Look at this thread, how many are agreeing with you? I would put the opinions of almost every mma fan i talk to, and the members of this board over a magazine writer. Writing for a mag does not make you a MMA god or the final authority.


And to be honest I would rather be Fedor. Silvas comeback consisted of sonnen slipping up and giving up a submission. Silva got his ass handed to him. Something that has not ever happened to Fedor. If Silva had came back and knocked out sonnen i would have been much more impressed. Again the comeback was more of sonnens flaws than silvas great fighting ability.

but im not here just to defend fedor, BJ penn, Randy Couture are also ahead of silva based on competition and accomplishments. Did Couture move to heavyweight and win the title twice? yes he did Many times outweighed by at least 40 pds. Did Couture Dominate a kid who was considered the best 205er in the world in tito ortiz? yes he did

BJ penn did lose to Pulver early in his career, yet you claimed it was his prime, lol. Not even close. That was before BJ was even taking the sport seriously and training. But Ill tell ya what he did do. He moved up and beat a much bigger and stronger champion in Matt Huges.

Who has Silva beat that is on par with Matt Huges? Who has he beat on par with a prime Tito Ortiz? Who has he beat on par with Chuck Liddel for that matter? Who has he beat on par with Vitor Belfort?

Dont give me forrest griffen either or rich franklin, both are b level fighters. Their biggest wins came over fighters close to retirement

Im not talking ranked fighters either. All top level fighters fight ranked fighters. Who has he beat that is considered an A level great fighter?

Who has Silva beat that is considered a legend of the sport?....................

Nobody.

Silva is a fabrication of the UFC Hype machine.

You Still didnt answer my question, you completely ducked it in fact. So I ask again

Why are Dana White and Ed Sorros running as fast as they can from giving sonnen a much deserved rematch? Their Hyped house of cards almost came crumbling down.

Please give an honest answer.

Any true champion worth his salt would want to fight the rematch and prove the beat down he was taking was just a fabrication.

Could Roy Jones be considered the p4p king once he got the first fight decision v/s tarver? nope Even though he won the fight.

Even for those that thought Silva was the p4p #1 fighter right now before this fight. His last 2 preformances have destroyed that throne for him. Any credible list will have him slipping a few spots. Its not just one poor preformance now, its 2 in a row.

Goat, lmao..... He hasnt beaten anyone yet.

now please answer the above question, I am dying to hear you spin this
AussieLad
Vitors inconsistencies aside, i think he represents a dangerous opponent for Silva. His hands are alot faster than both Sonnen and Silvas, and his power is unquestionable. Whether Anderson was getting caught with sonnens punches because he was looking for the takedown... maybe, but i find it hard to believe he was expecting sonnen to shoot without setting up the take down first with a strike. If he can get caught like that from a relative light hitter in Sonnen, he can get caught by a blazing fast power puncher like Vitor.
Box in Hand
Vitor Belfort is weak minded and that can be seen as far back as the Coture fight and as early as his PED usage. Sonnen did so well because he was not scared of Silva and truly believed he was gonna win unlike most Silva's other opponents. Most believed in the hype before they got in the ring with him. It's like Tarver beating Jones ass. Tarver didn't believe the hype and was ultra confident. Silva is P4P in my book and does things in the ring that only fighters appreciate. I may be the monority in this but hey what's life without opinion?
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 9 2010, 04:27 PM) *
I personally believe the people who follow the fights in boxing or mma, on boards like this are as well, if not more educated about the fighting sports than many of those who hold a job at a magazine writing about fighting.

You believe because a writer calls someone the GOAT it makes it so? They are more qualified than the majority of educated fight fans to make that decision? Their Decision to major in journalism classes somehow made them be able to better break down a fighter, than many here that have huge fight collections and have followed and researched fighters for years?



Look at this thread, how many are agreeing with you? I would put the opinions of almost every mma fan i talk to, and the members of this board over a magazine writer. Writing for a mag does not make you a MMA god or the final authority.


And to be honest I would rather be Fedor. Silvas comeback consisted of sonnen slipping up and giving up a submission. Silva got his ass handed to him. Something that has not ever happened to Fedor. If Silva had came back and knocked out sonnen i would have been much more impressed. Again the comeback was more of sonnens flaws than silvas great fighting ability.

but im not here just to defend fedor, BJ penn, Randy Couture are also ahead of silva based on competition and accomplishments. Did Couture move to heavyweight and win the title twice? yes he did Many times outweighed by at least 40 pds. Did Couture Dominate a kid who was considered the best 205er in the world in tito ortiz? yes he did

BJ penn did lose to Pulver early in his career, yet you claimed it was his prime, lol. Not even close. That was before BJ was even taking the sport seriously and training. But Ill tell ya what he did do. He moved up and beat a much bigger and stronger champion in Matt Huges.

Who has Silva beat that is on par with Matt Huges? Who has he beat on par with a prime Tito Ortiz? Who has he beat on par with Chuck Liddel for that matter? Who has he beat on par with Vitor Belfort?

Dont give me forrest griffen either or rich franklin, both are b level fighters. Their biggest wins came over fighters close to retirement

Im not talking ranked fighters either. All top level fighters fight ranked fighters. Who has he beat that is considered an A level great fighter?

Who has Silva beat that is considered a legend of the sport?....................

Nobody.

Silva is a fabrication of the UFC Hype machine.

You Still didnt answer my question, you completely ducked it in fact. So I ask again

Why are Dana White and Ed Sorros running as fast as they can from giving sonnen a much deserved rematch? Their Hyped house of cards almost came crumbling down.

Please give an honest answer.

Any true champion worth his salt would want to fight the rematch and prove the beat down he was taking was just a fabrication.

Could Roy Jones be considered the p4p king once he got the first fight decision v/s tarver? nope Even though he won the fight.

Even for those that thought Silva was the p4p #1 fighter right now before this fight. His last 2 preformances have destroyed that throne for him. Any credible list will have him slipping a few spots. Its not just one poor preformance now, its 2 in a row.

Goat, lmao..... He hasnt beaten anyone yet.

now please answer the above question, I am dying to hear you spin this


Dude just listen to some of the stupid ass comments you have made.....

Silva isn't p4p right now-anyone including the biggest Silva hater will tell you the guy is p4p. Witht that comment alone i shouldn't even have replied to you anymore but i couldn't resist.

You believe the fans more than the writers who write for the sport-C'mon bro you can't pull that sh*t on me i've been visiting Sherdog one of the leading MMA sites aswell as others MMA sites before they even had forums and i can tell you that most MMA fans became fans around 05-06 because of TUF shows. Most of these kids don't know sh*t about the sport nor the fight game. If you were to say that about boxing then maybe i would agree but in the case of MMA most fans are young kids who barley got into the sports there for i gotta go hands down with the people who write the mags and and have inside scoop of the sport.


The you go and say that had Anderson KO'ed Sonnen it would have been more impressive-hahahahah give me a f*cking break Anderson could beat Shogun, Lesnar, and Velasquez on the same night and you would still hate on him. Silva wanted to sub Sonnen because of those comments that Sonnen made about his black belt and the Noguera brothers. Thats why Anderson walked in with his GI to the fight something he hasn't done in years. Subbing Sonnen was much more impressive an satisfying given the comments hat to me was poetic justice Anderson whooped Sonnen the one way that Sonnen was makeing fun of him. You couldn't have a more perfect ending to the fight.

You rather be Fedor and lose than be Silva and comeback to win-I can't take anyting you say seriousley after the comment sorry bro you really did with that one.


Man these comments just reek of a biased person.

About the Dana/Soares comments who gives a f*Ck that they don't want the immediate rematch though i can tell you the that fight will happen eventually thats for sure.

This debate is getting pointless like Box in hand said i've got my opinion and my opinion aswell as others is that Anderson Silva is the GOAT you don't agree with that and thats fine i don't agree with your opinion either and after reading those comments i can't take you seriousley either.
Warlord
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 9 2010, 04:27 PM) *
I personally believe the people who follow the fights in boxing or mma, on boards like this are as well, if not more educated about the fighting sports than many of those who hold a job at a magazine writing about fighting.

You believe because a writer calls someone the GOAT it makes it so? They are more qualified than the majority of educated fight fans to make that decision? Their Decision to major in journalism classes somehow made them be able to better break down a fighter, than many here that have huge fight collections and have followed and researched fighters for years?



Look at this thread, how many are agreeing with you? I would put the opinions of almost every mma fan i talk to, and the members of this board over a magazine writer. Writing for a mag does not make you a MMA god or the final authority.


And to be honest I would rather be Fedor. Silvas comeback consisted of sonnen slipping up and giving up a submission. Silva got his ass handed to him. Something that has not ever happened to Fedor. If Silva had came back and knocked out sonnen i would have been much more impressed. Again the comeback was more of sonnens flaws than silvas great fighting ability.

but im not here just to defend fedor, BJ penn, Randy Couture are also ahead of silva based on competition and accomplishments. Did Couture move to heavyweight and win the title twice? yes he did Many times outweighed by at least 40 pds. Did Couture Dominate a kid who was considered the best 205er in the world in tito ortiz? yes he did

BJ penn did lose to Pulver early in his career, yet you claimed it was his prime, lol. Not even close. That was before BJ was even taking the sport seriously and training. But Ill tell ya what he did do. He moved up and beat a much bigger and stronger champion in Matt Huges.

Who has Silva beat that is on par with Matt Huges? Who has he beat on par with a prime Tito Ortiz? Who has he beat on par with Chuck Liddel for that matter? Who has he beat on par with Vitor Belfort?

Dont give me forrest griffen either or rich franklin, both are b level fighters. Their biggest wins came over fighters close to retirement

Im not talking ranked fighters either. All top level fighters fight ranked fighters. Who has he beat that is considered an A level great fighter?

Who has Silva beat that is considered a legend of the sport?....................

Nobody.

Silva is a fabrication of the UFC Hype machine.

You Still didnt answer my question, you completely ducked it in fact. So I ask again

Why are Dana White and Ed Sorros running as fast as they can from giving sonnen a much deserved rematch? Their Hyped house of cards almost came crumbling down.

Please give an honest answer.

Any true champion worth his salt would want to fight the rematch and prove the beat down he was taking was just a fabrication.

Could Roy Jones be considered the p4p king once he got the first fight decision v/s tarver? nope Even though he won the fight.

Even for those that thought Silva was the p4p #1 fighter right now before this fight. His last 2 preformances have destroyed that throne for him. Any credible list will have him slipping a few spots. Its not just one poor preformance now, its 2 in a row.

Goat, lmao..... He hasnt beaten anyone yet.

now please answer the above question, I am dying to hear you spin this

Amen. Pretty much sums up what I was going to post.

Bazooka, no one is saying Anderson Silva isn't a great fighter. He is. He just isn't the greatest. Not by a damn sight. He hasn't really fought anyone credible enough to be considered the GOAT. You're getting caught up in the drama of the moment, pure and simple.

My P4P list right now?

Georges St. Pierre
Anderson Silva
Fedor Emelianenko
Jose Aldo
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
Warlord
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Aug 9 2010, 04:53 PM) *
Vitors inconsistencies aside, i think he represents a dangerous opponent for Silva. His hands are alot faster than both Sonnen and Silvas, and his power is unquestionable. Whether Anderson was getting caught with sonnens punches because he was looking for the takedown... maybe, but i find it hard to believe he was expecting sonnen to shoot without setting up the take down first with a strike. If he can get caught like that from a relative light hitter in Sonnen, he can get caught by a blazing fast power puncher like Vitor.

Co-sign.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 9 2010, 08:45 PM) *
Amen. Pretty much sums up what I was going to post.

Bazooka, no one is saying Anderson Silva isn't a great fighter. He is. He just isn't the greatest. Not by a damn sight. He hasn't really fought anyone credible enough to be considered the GOAT. You're getting caught up in the drama of the moment, pure and simple.

My P4P list right now?

Georges St. Pierre
Anderson Silva
Fedor Emelianenko
Jose Aldo
Mauricio "Shogun" Rua


I can respect you haveing GSP at #1 thats fine it's your list i don't have him at #1 but it's all good. I would replace Shogun with Fedor though. Jose Aldo is fine at #4.
Warlord
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Aug 9 2010, 06:33 PM) *
Vitor Belfort is weak minded and that can be seen as far back as the Coture fight and as early as his PED usage. Sonnen did so well because he was not scared of Silva and truly believed he was gonna win unlike most Silva's other opponents. Most believed in the hype before they got in the ring with him. It's like Tarver beating Jones ass. Tarver didn't believe the hype and was ultra confident. Silva is P4P in my book and does things in the ring that only fighters appreciate. I may be the monority in this but hey what's life without opinion?

Actually, Sonnen has ALWAYS had confidence problems. All his talk was just a way to hype himself, and hype the fight. Check out some of his interviews here, where he talks openly and honestly (and in-depth) about his confidence issues.

http://www.purefight.org/coverage/237344-C...onest-Interview


The real reason Chael did so well against Silva is because he showed up to fight. Period. I don't know how confident he really was, as we see he again fell apart in the closing stanza of a fight he was DOMINATING.

As well, Silva is and will always be susceptible to wrestlers. It's why Anderson is in a lot of trouble at this juncture of his career. I think Chael Sonnen has obliterated the UFC-manufactured Silva mystique. Now he's gonna have Sonnen breathing down his neck for a rematch, and he's gonna have guys like Belfort, Shields, and GSP all thinking (and knowing) they've got a real chance to turn Silva into a shit stain now.

And what's Anderson gonna do at 205? An ultra-quick wrestler like Rashad Evans is just big enough to lay on Anderson long enough to pull out the win. And of course we have the champion at 205, Mauricio "Shogun" Rua? Shogun can fucking GO, on his feet or from top-position. Anderson would have his hands full with the pace Shogun sets.

Anderson Silva may have won the battle. But I think, in a strange kind of way, it's gonna be Sonnen who wins the war. He got the snowball rolling. And now we're gonna get the chance to see what Anderson Silva is really made of.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 9 2010, 04:27 PM) *
I personally believe the people who follow the fights in boxing or mma, on boards like this are as well, if not more educated about the fighting sports than many of those who hold a job at a magazine writing about fighting.

You believe because a writer calls someone the GOAT it makes it so? They are more qualified than the majority of educated fight fans to make that decision? Their Decision to major in journalism classes somehow made them be able to better break down a fighter, than many here that have huge fight collections and have followed and researched fighters for years?



Look at this thread, how many are agreeing with you? I would put the opinions of almost every mma fan i talk to, and the members of this board over a magazine writer. Writing for a mag does not make you a MMA god or the final authority.


And to be honest I would rather be Fedor. Silvas comeback consisted of sonnen slipping up and giving up a submission. Silva got his ass handed to him. Something that has not ever happened to Fedor. If Silva had came back and knocked out sonnen i would have been much more impressed. Again the comeback was more of sonnens flaws than silvas great fighting ability.

but im not here just to defend fedor, BJ penn, Randy Couture are also ahead of silva based on competition and accomplishments. Did Couture move to heavyweight and win the title twice? yes he did Many times outweighed by at least 40 pds. Did Couture Dominate a kid who was considered the best 205er in the world in tito ortiz? yes he did

BJ penn did lose to Pulver early in his career, yet you claimed it was his prime, lol. Not even close. That was before BJ was even taking the sport seriously and training. But Ill tell ya what he did do. He moved up and beat a much bigger and stronger champion in Matt Huges.

Who has Silva beat that is on par with Matt Huges? Who has he beat on par with a prime Tito Ortiz? Who has he beat on par with Chuck Liddel for that matter? Who has he beat on par with Vitor Belfort?

Dont give me forrest griffen either or rich franklin, both are b level fighters. Their biggest wins came over fighters close to retirement

Im not talking ranked fighters either. All top level fighters fight ranked fighters. Who has he beat that is considered an A level great fighter?

Who has Silva beat that is considered a legend of the sport?....................

Nobody.

Silva is a fabrication of the UFC Hype machine.

You Still didnt answer my question, you completely ducked it in fact. So I ask again

Why are Dana White and Ed Sorros running as fast as they can from giving sonnen a much deserved rematch? Their Hyped house of cards almost came crumbling down.

Please give an honest answer.

Any true champion worth his salt would want to fight the rematch and prove the beat down he was taking was just a fabrication.

Could Roy Jones be considered the p4p king once he got the first fight decision v/s tarver? nope Even though he won the fight.

Even for those that thought Silva was the p4p #1 fighter right now before this fight. His last 2 preformances have destroyed that throne for him. Any credible list will have him slipping a few spots. Its not just one poor preformance now, its 2 in a row.

Goat, lmao..... He hasnt beaten anyone yet.

now please answer the above question, I am dying to hear you spin this


Dude just listen to some of the stupid ass comments you have made.....

Silva isn't p4p right now-anyone including the biggest Silva hater will tell you the guy is p4p. Witht that comment alone i shouldn't even have replied to you anymore but i couldn't resist.

You believe the fans more than the writers who write for the sport-C'mon bro you can't pull that sh*t on me i've been visiting Sherdog one of the leading MMA sites aswell as others MMA sites before they even had forums and i can tell you that most MMA fans became fans around 05-06 because of TUF shows. Most of these kids don't know sh*t about the sport nor the fight game. If you were to say that about boxing then maybe i would agree but in the case of MMA most fans are young kids who barley got into the sports there for i gotta go hands down with the people who write the mags and and have inside scoop of the sport.


The you go and say that had Anderson KO'ed Sonnen it would have been more impressive-hahahahah give me a f*cking break Anderson could beat Shogun, Lesnar, and Velasquez on the same night and you would still hate on him. Silva wanted to sub Sonnen because of those comments that Sonnen made about his black belt and the Noguera brothers. Thats why Anderson walked in with his GI to the fight something he hasn't done in years. Subbing Sonnen was much more impressive an satisfying given the comments hat to me was poetic justice Anderson whooped Sonnen the one way that Sonnen was makeing fun of him. You couldn't have a more perfect ending to the fight.

You rather be Fedor and lose than be Silva and comeback to win-I can't take anyting you say seriousley after the comment sorry bro you really did with that one.


Man these comments just reek of a biased person.

About the Dana/Soares comments who gives a f*Ck that they don't want the immediate rematch though i can tell you the that fight will happen eventually thats for sure.

This debate is getting pointless like Box in hand said i've got my opinion and my opinion aswell as others is that Anderson Silva is the GOAT you don't agree with that and thats fine i don't agree with your opinion either and after reading those comments i can't take you seriousley either.

Warlord
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 9 2010, 07:53 PM) *
I can respect you haveing GSP at #1 thats fine it's your list i don't have him at #1 but it's all good. I would replace Shogun with Fedor though. Jose Aldo is fine at #4.

Fedor switched with Shogun is fine, actually. Any of the bottom three of that list in any order is fine. GSP and Silva are the clear cut 1 and 2 now. No one that gets dominated like Anderson Silva just did (to Chael Sonnen no less) deserves to be called the P4P best fighter in the world though.

(I still think from an over-all standpoint that Fedor deserves to be ranked ahead of Silva as well. But a loss is a loss, and until he avenges it, it is what it is.)
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 9 2010, 08:57 PM) *
Actually, Sonnen has ALWAYS had confidence problems. All his talk was just a way to hype himself, and hype the fight. Check out some of his interviews here, where he talks openly and honestly (and in-depth) about his confidence issues.

http://www.purefight.org/coverage/237344-C...onest-Interview


The real reason Chael did so well against Silva is because he showed up to fight. Period. I don't know how confident he really was, as we see he again fell apart in the closing stanza of a fight he was DOMINATING.

As well, Silva is and will always be susceptible to wrestlers. It's why Anderson is in a lot of trouble at this juncture of his career. I think Chael Sonnen has obliterated the UFC-manufactured Silva mystique. Now he's gonna have Sonnen breathing down his neck for a rematch, and he's gonna have guys like Belfort, Shields, and GSP all thinking (and knowing) they've got a real chance to turn Silva into a shit stain now.

And what's Anderson gonna do at 205? An ultra-quick wrestler like Rashad Evans is just big enough to lay on Anderson long enough to pull out the win. And of course we have the champion at 205, Mauricio "Shogun" Rua? Shogun can fucking GO, on his feet or from top-position. Anderson would have his hands full with the pace Shogun sets.

Anderson Silva may have won the battle. But I think, in a strange kind of way, it's gonna be Sonnen who wins the war. He got the snowball rolling. And now we're gonna get the chance to see what Anderson Silva is really made of.


Hey War i got a question you said that the UFC was biased with Silva being that he's a UFC fighter and all right? And that in your opinon Penn,GSP and Couture are all agreater than Silva p4p right? Well than why are they not proclaiming Penn, GSP or Couture as GOAT there UFC fighters aswell too right?
Warlord
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 9 2010, 08:04 PM) *
Hey War i got a question you said that the UFC was biased with Silva being that he's a UFC fighter and all right? And that in your opinon Penn,GSP and Couture are all agreater than Silva p4p right? Well than why are they not proclaiming Penn, GSP or Couture as GOAT there UFC fighters aswell too right?

Sorry buddy, I think you meant to pose this question to Run and Gun. I have not mentioned Penn or Couture in this thread. And I never mentioned GSP as the GOAT. I simply said GSP is the #1 P4P right now.
Box in Hand
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 9 2010, 06:57 PM) *
Actually, Sonnen has ALWAYS had confidence problems. All his talk was just a way to hype himself, and hype the fight. Check out some of his interviews here, where he talks openly and honestly (and in-depth) about his confidence issues.

http://www.purefight.org/coverage/237344-C...onest-Interview


The real reason Chael did so well against Silva is because he showed up to fight. Period. I don't know how confident he really was, as we see he again fell apart in the closing stanza of a fight he was DOMINATING.

As well, Silva is and will always be susceptible to wrestlers. It's why Anderson is in a lot of trouble at this juncture of his career. I think Chael Sonnen has obliterated the UFC-manufactured Silva mystique. Now he's gonna have Sonnen breathing down his neck for a rematch, and he's gonna have guys like Belfort, Shields, and GSP all thinking (and knowing) they've got a real chance to turn Silva into a shit stain now.

And what's Anderson gonna do at 205? An ultra-quick wrestler like Rashad Evans is just big enough to lay on Anderson long enough to pull out the win. And of course we have the champion at 205, Mauricio "Shogun" Rua? Shogun can fucking GO, on his feet or from top-position. Anderson would have his hands full with the pace Shogun sets.

Anderson Silva may have won the battle. But I think, in a strange kind of way, it's gonna be Sonnen who wins the war. He got the snowball rolling. And now we're gonna get the chance to see what Anderson Silva is really made of.


Just watched it and thanks for that. He was confident in the video and reiterated what I said. He came to conquer not bow. He truly believed and that's why he did so well. Doubt clouds everything and he had no doubt. He came up short against a superb fighter.
Warlord
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Aug 9 2010, 08:52 PM) *
Just watched it and thanks for that. He was confident in the video and reiterated what I said. He came to conquer not bow. He truly believed and that's why he did so well. Doubt clouds everything and he had no doubt. He came up short against a superb fighter.

He came to fight, yes, that is true. But a fighter losing a fight to the same submission he has lost so many others to still speaks of a mental breakdown to me. The guy's admitted to doing it in the past, and if the results are any indication, he did it again.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 9 2010, 08:33 PM) *
Sorry buddy, I think you meant to pose this question to Run and Gun. I have not mentioned Penn or Couture in this thread. And I never mentioned GSP as the GOAT. I simply said GSP is the #1 P4P right now.


Your right my bad.
AussieLad
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 10 2010, 01:04 AM) *
Hey War i got a question you said that the UFC was biased with Silva being that he's a UFC fighter and all right? And that in your opinon Penn,GSP and Couture are all agreater than Silva p4p right? Well than why are they not proclaiming Penn, GSP or Couture as GOAT there UFC fighters aswell too right?



Depends on who's headlining the event. I've heard them call GSP the best in the world on a couple of occassions, then when Anderson headlines suddenly he is the best.

Its just marketing BS

Listen to that tool Joe Rogan. Just about everytime Silva is fighting someone, Rogan says "if you were going to create a guy to beat Silva it would be this guy". Did it with henderson, did it with sonnen, did it with thales leites
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Aug 10 2010, 03:04 AM) *
Depends on who's headlining the event. I've heard them call GSP the best in the world on a couple of occassions, then when Anderson headlines suddenly he is the best.

Its just marketing BS

Listen to that tool Joe Rogan. Just about everytime Silva is fighting someone, Rogan says "if you were going to create a guy to beat Silva it would be this guy". Did it with henderson, did it with sonnen, did it with thales leites


Read the post again i said "Greatest of all time time" not current best.

I can't recall them ever saying GSP, Penn or Couture IS the GOAT.
Run and Gun Game Calls
Bazooka I am trying very hard to understand your stance, i really am. I am not new to the sport or a kid. I have been watching mma since UFC #2. And I have followed the sport very closely since.

I want to know what criteria you are using to call Silva the GOAT.

It cant be accomplishments, because other fighters have accomplished more,

So it has to be based on your opinion of his fighting style.

I agree he is one of the best strikers I have ever seen. Brutal Elbows and knees, and very good speed. His ground game to me though, is average at best.

So explain why is he better than anyone who have ever fought mma? As posted before the accomplishments dont stack up yet.

Also quit that thing you do with bowing off questions just so you dont have to answer them.

ED SORROS and DANA WHITE are running from a rematch, why if he is this GOAT you claim him to be? Dude you cant say it will eventually happen, you dont know that. They have been looking for someone around silva weight to push him, well we got it. The rematch would be a a challenge for your great idol. Why run from the best fight out there for him to fight? Give an honest opinion and reasoning why. Quit blowing off questions
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 10 2010, 12:25 PM) *
Bazooka I am trying very hard to understand your stance, i really am. I am not new to the sport or a kid. I have been watching mma since UFC #2. And I have followed the sport very closely since.

I want to know what criteria you are using to call Silva the GOAT.

It cant be accomplishments, because other fighters have accomplished more,

So it has to be based on your opinion of his fighting style.

I agree he is one of the best strikers I have ever seen. Brutal Elbows and knees, and very good speed. His ground game to me though, is average at best.

So explain why is he better than anyone who have ever fought mma? As posted before the accomplishments dont stack up yet.

Also quit that thing you do with bowing off questions just so you dont have to answer them.

ED SORROS and DANA WHITE are running from a rematch, why if he is this GOAT you claim him to be? Dude you cant say it will eventually happen, you dont know that. They have been looking for someone around silva weight to push him, well we got it. The rematch would be a a challenge for your great idol. Why run from the best fight out there for him to fight? Give an honest opinion and reasoning why. Quit blowing off questions


Who kows but like i said i truely believe that the fight will happen sh*t maybe Dana and Ed are afraid that Silva might lose but i guarantee you Silva will fight him a 2nd time and just like Ed said in another interview that if thats the fight the UFC wants than they will do it(i will try and find it for you).

Now can you please answer my question.

Since you have said that GSP, Penn and Couture are all greater fighers than Silva then why don't they proclaime one of them as the GOAT since they too are UFC fighters? and you pretty muc said UFC was bias towrds Silva thats why they called him the GOAT so please asnwer me that my friend.
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 10 2010, 04:52 PM) *
Since you have said that GSP, Penn and Couture are all greater fighers than Silva then why don't they proclaime one of them as the GOAT since they too are UFC fighters? and you pretty muc said UFC was bias towrds Silva thats why they called him the GOAT so please asnwer me that my friend.


GSP, Penn and Couture have all accomplished more. That is why I call them greater all time. Lets go down the list though shall we?

GSP, dominating wins over Matt Hughes, and penn plus his well rounded game make me put him at #1 p4p right now, and higher than Silva based mainly on his level of competition. Hughes was considered #1 p4p when he beat him, as was bj Penn when he beat him during the first fight.

BJ Penn, You mentioned his loss early in his career to jens pulver. Pulver was already seasoned at that point, and Bj was still new to the mma game., but look at the rematch. Look at how artistic the submission was, trapping the arm with his leg as he applied the read naked choke. Look how he dominated and beat matt highes in their first fight, and hughes is really a 205 pder, and what most have called the strongest fighter in the ufc By out grappled the grappler. A man much much bigger than him. Who in fact was a champion at the time. To me BJ's ground game is vastly superior to silvas, and his stand up is not far off. P4P a better fighter.


Now for couture, his accomplishments are already listed. He has accomplished more than any other mma fighter in history. his stand up is average, but ground game is superior. Second on the ground only to BJ Penn. his accomplishments and fighting and beating men so much bigger than him, many times making it look so easy is why i rank him so highly, and in fact above silva.

you cant rate a fighter on potiental in my opinion, they have to earn it. Silva has the oppertunity to do that, he just hasnt earned it yet in my opinion.


Why does the UFC promote Silva and not these others as the best of all time? I have personally heard Rogan call both Penn and Couture perhaps the best fighter MMA has ever seen during telecasts. I believe dana white hypes this, stealing a page out of mayweathers book. Proclaiming him the best ever, and getting emotions involved as people buy ppv's praying to see him lose. That being said, Dana lets the machine work for him, far as I know he has never personally called silva the best ever.


QUOTE
I want to know what criteria you are using to call Silva the GOAT.

It cant be accomplishments, because other fighters have accomplished more,

So it has to be based on your opinion of his fighting style.

I agree he is one of the best strikers I have ever seen. Brutal Elbows and knees, and very good speed. His ground game to me though, is average at best.

So explain why is he better than anyone who have ever fought mma? As posted before the accomplishments dont stack up yet.


Still waiting for you to answer this
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 10 2010, 05:12 PM) *
GSP, Penn and Couture have all accomplished more. That is why I call them greater all time. Lets go down the list though shall we?

GSP, dominating wins over Matt Hughes, and penn plus his well rounded game make me put him at #1 p4p right now, and higher than Silva based mainly on his level of competition. Hughes was considered #1 p4p when he beat him, as was bj Penn when he beat him during the first fight.

BJ Penn, You mentioned his loss early in his career to jens pulver. Pulver was already seasoned at that point, and Bj was still new to the mma game., but look at the rematch. Look at how artistic the submission was, trapping the arm with his leg as he applied the read naked choke. Look how he dominated and beat matt highes in their first fight, and hughes is really a 205 pder, and what most have called the strongest fighter in the ufc By out grappled the grappler. A man much much bigger than him. Who in fact was a champion at the time. To me BJ's ground game is vastly superior to silvas, and his stand up is not far off. P4P a better fighter.


Now for couture, his accomplishments are already listed. He has accomplished more than any other mma fighter in history. his stand up is average, but ground game is superior. Second on the ground only to BJ Penn. his accomplishments and fighting and beating men so much bigger than him, many times making it look so easy is why i rank him so highly, and in fact above silva.

you cant rate a fighter on potiental in my opinion, they have to earn it. Silva has the oppertunity to do that, he just hasnt earned it yet in my opinion.


Why does the UFC promote Silva and not these others as the best of all time? I have personally heard Rogan call both Penn and Couture perhaps the best fighter MMA has ever seen during telecasts. I believe dana white hypes this, stealing a page out of mayweathers book. Proclaiming him the best ever, and getting emotions involved as people buy ppv's praying to see him lose. That being said, Dana lets the machine work for him, far as I know he has never personally called silva the best ever.




Still waiting for you to answer this


I'll go down that list with you my man.

GSP-great fighter no doubt but you forgot to mentioned two little weakness of his the stand up and chin he got KTFO and embarrased by Mat Serra of all people thats why he's been gun shy ever since and like some do with Anderson has been criticised for his perfromances latley for not being able to finish and just keep an oppopent down.

Penn- has been one of the most inconsistent great fighers in MMA that has hurt him big time no need to go too much into that because anyone can tell you os.

Couture-has had some good win but he's also had some very big losses and most by stoppage or submission. No way i would ever rank him ahead of Anderson.

Now as for why i rank Anderson as the best p4p ever. Well let me start with his accomplsihments that you seem to not be impressed with at all.

He's beaten...

Hayato Sakurai back when Sakurai was bad man

Carlos Newton-anothetop fighter of the time Silva stopped him with w HL reel knee beautiful stuff.

Leben-now im not saying Leben is a bad ass by any means even though he has been on a nice winning streak latley but what was so impressive was in the way Silva beat him to this day no one has been able to knock Leben out the guy has a iron chin yet Silva flatten him with strikes within a minute.

Franklin-Franklin was considered the top MW by most at the time and was thought to be too well rounded for Silva. Again Silva made Franklin look like a bum stopping him brutaly within 1 rd.

Henderson-Hendo had just come off a very close loss to Rampage and was also thought to be to strong for Silva yet Anderson schooled him on the feet and subbed him in the 2nd. Now how the f*ck can you not be impressed with that after Hendo has just faught a war with Rampage?

Lutter- No biggie there but need to mention it because many though Lutters so called superior BJJ was too much for Silva.

Marquadt-another top MW at the time who was like 7 times pancrase champ and was again thought to be the solution to Silva. Outcome Silva by easy beating in 1 rd.

Griffin-held the LHW belt beat Rampage and Shogun yet looked like a f*cking amatuer compared to Silva nuff said there.

See bro we can go back and forth nit picking on the fighters they have beaten and lost to.

I know Silva has had some not so exciting perfromances latley but the difference between him and the rest is that he keeps on winning and usually does it in impressive fashion.

Now because of the way he's won alot of his fights and his style which is IMO more complete than GSP, and Couture because unlike GSP and Couture they have never beaten a top striker at striking yes they may take em down and might win there but Anderson has beaten fighters in positions where many thought he wouldn't have a chance.

So what Anderosn was taken dow nand loseing to Sonnen he still subbed him in a position that was supose to better better suited for Sonnen.

Anderson can beat other good strikers on there feet and sub top BJJ guys and olympic level wrestlers.

Also his consistency has been remarkable 12 straight wins in the UFC, records set for title defenses in the UFC, I personaly don't know how anyone could hate on the guy but hey to each his own.

For those reason is why i rank Anderson as the #1 p4p fighter today and of all times but don't worry bro he's 35 and for a guy who relies on his speed and relflexes his reign may come to an end soon but for now you should try and enjoy him for he will go down as the best ever and in time like most boxers will become more appreciated.

I really didn't wanna reply to you anymore cause i just can't take you seriuosley but i did cause you asked me a question and i didn't wanna make it seemed like i was dodgeing it but please lets try to end this sooner than later.

It's ok that you don't agree with me thats fine you got your opinion i got mine. I just didn't like how you came at me like i was 100% wrong for not agreeing with and for haveing Silva as the GOAT yet alot of other people have him aswell.

How about we'll just agree to disgaree sounds good?
Warlord
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 10 2010, 04:12 PM) *
you cant rate a fighter on potiental.

I think that sums it up perfectly, actually.

Bazooka, you can't honestly sit here and argue that Anderson Silva's body of work qualifies him as the best ever, can you?

As stated before, going just off comp lists, Fedor, Wanderlei Silva, and Mauricio "Shogun" Rua all excel Anderson at this point. Even Kazushi Sakuraba excels Silva at this point. By A LOT. Sakuraba holds wins over 6 former UFC champions.

Kazushi Sakuraba

Win Ikuhisa Minowa Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Ken Shamrock TKO (Punch)
Win Kevin Randleman Submission (Armbar)
Win Quinton Jackson Submission (Rear Naked Choke)
Win Ryan Gracie Decision (Unanimous)
Win Renzo Gracie Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Royce Gracie TKO (Corner Stoppage)
Win Guy Mezger TKO (Retirement)
Win Royler Gracie Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Ebenezer Fontes Braga Submission (Armbar)
Win Vitor Belfort Decision (Unanimous)
Win Carlos Newton Submission (Kneebar)
Win Vernon White Submission (Armbar)


Let's take it a little further. Let's break down the way each fighter has won.

Anderson Silva - 27 wins

Wins 15 (T)KOs ( 55.56 %)
5 Submissions ( 18.52 %)
7 Decisions ( 25.93 %)

Anderson Silva finished his opponents within the time-limit approximately 74% percent of the time. (74.08% to be exact.) Pretty good, yeah? (Though finishing only about half of your opponents by KO/TKO when striking is supposedly your specialty is a little surprising.) Well, try comparing that to Kazushi Sakuraba.


Kazushi Sakuraba - 26 wins

Wins 4 (T)KOs ( 15.38 %)
19 Submissions ( 73.08 %)
3 Decisions ( 11.54 %)

Sakuraba also finishes nearly 74% of his opponents within the time-limit... by submission alone! Add in TKO/KO finishes, and Kazushi Sakuraba finishes his oppnents 88.46% of the time... nearly 90 fucking %!


So yeah. Let's all lay off the Silva nutsack for a little while. The man clearly has a long way to go before we start trying to proclaim him as the GOAT. Regardless of whatever the fuck Dana White and the UFC hype-machine would have you believe.


P.S. Sakuraba would've toyed with, and then subbed Anderson Silva by arm-bar if they'd ever met in their respective primes.


kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 10 2010, 07:58 PM) *
I think that sums it up perfectly, actually.

Bazooka, you can't honestly sit here and argue that Anderson Silva's body of work qualifies him as the best ever, can you?

As stated before, going just off comp lists, Fedor, Wanderlei Silva, and Mauricio "Shogun" Rua all excel Anderson at this point. Even Kazushi Sakuraba excels Silva at this point. By A LOT. Sakuraba holds wins over 6 former UFC champions.

Kazushi Sakuraba

Win Ikuhisa Minowa Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Ken Shamrock TKO (Punch)
Win Kevin Randleman Submission (Armbar)
Win Quinton Jackson Submission (Rear Naked Choke)
Win Ryan Gracie Decision (Unanimous)
Win Renzo Gracie Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Royce Gracie TKO (Corner Stoppage)
Win Guy Mezger TKO (Retirement)
Win Royler Gracie Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Ebenezer Fontes Braga Submission (Armbar)
Win Vitor Belfort Decision (Unanimous)
Win Carlos Newton Submission (Kneebar)
Win Vernon White Submission (Armbar)


Let's take it a little further. Let's break down the way each fighter has won.

Anderson Silva - 27 wins

Wins 15 (T)KOs ( 55.56 %)
5 Submissions ( 18.52 %)
7 Decisions ( 25.93 %)

Anderson Silva finished his opponents within the time-limit approximately 74% percent of the time. (74.08% to be exact.) Pretty good, yeah? (Though finishing only about half of your opponents by KO/TKO when striking is supposedly your specialty is a little surprising.) Well, try comparing that to Kazushi Sakuraba.


Kazushi Sakuraba - 26 wins

Wins 4 (T)KOs ( 15.38 %)
19 Submissions ( 73.08 %)
3 Decisions ( 11.54 %)

Sakuraba also finishes nearly 74% of his opponents within the time-limit... by submission alone! Add in TKO/KO finishes, and Kazushi Sakuraba finishes his oppnents 88.46% of the time... nearly 90 fucking %!


So yeah. Let's all lay off the Silva nutsack for a little while. The man clearly has a long way to go before we start trying to proclaim him as the GOAT. Regardless of whatever the fuck Dana White and the UFC hype-machine would have you believe.


P.S. Sakuraba would've toyed with, and then subbed Anderson Silva by arm-bar if they'd ever met in their respective primes.



Read my above post.

It's not just because of his resume he has a good one but it's not just that.
Warlord
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 10 2010, 09:01 PM) *
Read my above post.

It's not just because of his resume he has a good one but it's not just that.

I did read it. You went on Ad nauseam about how beating Travis Lutter and Nate Marquardt makes Silva the GOAT. laugh.gif

Seriously though. Anderson doesn't even have a better record than Sakuraba. Sakuraba was submitting Gracies like it was going out of style, something NO ONE had ever done before. Sakuraba gave his back up in DISDAIN to those fighters as well. And none of them could submit him. Unlike Silva, who periodically gets himself caught in embarrassing situations with SUB-PAR competition.

Sakuraba beat Belfort in stand-up before dominating him on the ground, hell, he's beat professional boxers (Rubin Williams) in stand-up before taking them down. AND he's done it all far, far above his natural fighting weight. Something Anderson Silva would know nothing about. He (Silva) walks around well above 205lbs in his daily life (about 230, from what I hear), but still can't seem to motivate himself to make a real go at Light Heavyweight.

Sakuraba has never walked into the ring weighing more than 192lbs. And often, he weighed less. But he's been fighting Light Heavyweights and Heavyweights his ENTIRE CAREER. Fuck, the man fought Mirko Cro-Cop for Christ's sake! He even fought Igor Vovchanchyn (whose striking excels Anderson Silva's) AFTER fighting Royce Gracie for 90 minutes... on the same fucking night!!!

Now I'm getting myself worked up, lol.

Anderson Silva isn't even worthy to bow before Sakuraba's throne and worship. He's doing just fine bowing down at Chael Sonnen's feet.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 10 2010, 09:20 PM) *
I did read it. You went on Ad nauseam about how beating Travis Lutter and Nate Marquardt makes Silva the GOAT. laugh.gif

Seriously though. Anderson doesn't even have a better record than Sakuraba. Sakuraba was submitting Gracies like it was going out of style, something NO ONE had ever done before. Sakuraba gave his back up in DISDAIN to those fighters as well. And none of them could submit him. Unlike Silva, who periodically gets himself caught in embarrassing situations with SUB-PAR competition.

Sakuraba beat Belfort in stand-up before dominating him on the ground, hell, he's beat professional boxers (Rubin Williams) in stand-up before taking them down. AND he's done it all far, far above his natural fighting weight. Something Anderson Silva would know nothing about. He (Silva) walks around well above 205lbs in his daily life (about 230, from what I hear), but still can't seem to motivate himself to make a real go at Light Heavyweight.

Sakuraba has never walked into the ring weighing more than 192lbs. And often, he weighed less. But he's been fighting Light Heavyweights and Heavyweights his ENTIRE CAREER. Fuck, the man fought Mirko Cro-Cop for Christ's sake! He even fought Igor Vovchanchyn (whose striking excels Anderson Silva's) AFTER fighting Royce Gracie for 90 minutes... on the same fucking night!!!

Now I'm getting myself worked up, lol.

Anderson Silva isn't even worthy to bow before Sakuraba's throne and worship. He's doing just fine bowing down at Chael Sonnen's feet.


LOL

I can counter that easly but i won't even waste my time. Im done here.
Warlord
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 10 2010, 08:24 PM) *
LOL

I can counter that easly but i won't even waste my time. Im done here.

Hehe, the forum's open day and night, bro.

Seriously. I think you're just caught up in the moment. The adrenalin of seeing Silva pull that miracle win out of his ass after getting his ugly face dominated for 4 and a half rounds put you into orbit, and you said some stuff in such a way that left you open for the debate that ensued.

Anderson Silva is a great fighter. A top P4P fighter. No one is denying that. But that isn't enough for you. You want everyone to join hands at the table of brotherhood for Silva, and brother, it ain't happening.

There are some people who agree with you, yes, that Anderson is the GOAT. But brother, they are ALL Tuf-noobs who don't know SHIT about MMA.

It's the same tactic from everyone of them. Proclaim Silva the greatest, shit on Fedor, shit on other top fighters, claim that the greatest are only fighting in the UFC, rinse, and repeat. Really. It's text-book shit.

I know you aren't a tuffer, but you've done everything so far on that list except claim that all the best are fighting in the UFC. (So I gotta ask? Do you believe that too?) I mean, really, it is all right out of the UFC hype-machine.

All I am saying is put the emotion aside. You're a Silva fan. Okay. Maybe you're letting that cloud your judgement just a bit. You compared the man to Sugar Ray Robinson for crying out loud. I mean, you've stopped just short of anointing him with messianic prophecy.

Let's all just chill out here for a little while. There is still a lot of fighting to be done before we can decide who the GOAT really is.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 10 2010, 09:51 PM) *
Hehe, the forum's open day and night, bro.

Seriously. I think you're just caught up in the moment. The adrenalin of seeing Silva pull that miracle win out of his ass after getting his ugly face dominated for 4 and a half rounds put you into orbit, and you said some stuff in such a way that left you open for the debate that ensued.

Anderson Silva is a great fighter. A top P4P fighter. No one is denying that. But that isn't enough for you. You want everyone to join hands at the table of brotherhood for Silva, and brother, it ain't happening.

There are some people who agree with you, yes, that Anderson is the GOAT. But brother, they are ALL Tuf-noobs who don't know SHIT about MMA.

It's the same tactic from everyone of them. Proclaim Silva the greatest, shit on Fedor, shit on other top fighters, claim that the greatest are only fighting in the UFC, rinse, and repeat. Really. It's text-book shit.

I know you aren't a tuffer, but you've done everything so far on that list except claim that all the best are fighting in the UFC. (So I gotta ask? Do you believe that too?) I mean, really, it is all right out of the UFC hype-machine.

All I am saying is put the emotion aside. You're a Silva fan. Okay. Maybe you're letting that cloud your judgement just a bit. You compared the man to Sugar Ray Robinson for crying out loud. I mean, you've stopped just short of anointing him with messianic prophecy.

Let's all just chill out here for a little while. There is still a lot of fighting to be done before we can decide who the GOAT really is.


Hahahaha

Ok you don't agree with my opinion and i don't agree with yours so just let it go bro.
Warlord
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 10 2010, 10:34 PM) *
Hahahaha

Ok you don't agree with my opinion and i don't agree with yours so just let it go bro.

Obviously I don't agree, or we wouldn't be on page 10. But discourse is the intent of forums, so letting it go isn't really an option. I'll debate this topic for as long as there is someone here to do it with. I do commend you for keeping your punches above the belt so far, though. There are many who wouldn't have done so, and I myself am guilty of going below the belt on occasion as well. So props for that.
Warlord
On a completely unrelated note, is there a fighter out there uglier than Anderson Silva? I know it doesn't have shit to do with anything, but damn, that is one ugly dude. I mean, he's on par with Matt Lindland.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 10 2010, 09:57 PM) *
On a completely unrelated note, is there a fighter out there uglier than Anderson Silva? I know it doesn't have shit to do with anything, but damn, that is one ugly dude. I mean, he's on par with Matt Lindland.


LOL

Big Nog is an ugly SOB aswell.
Warlord
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 10 2010, 11:46 PM) *
LOL

Big Nog is an ugly SOB aswell.

He ain't no Anderson Silva though. laugh.gif

Anderson Silva couldn't even win second prize in a $10 beauty contest at Monopoly.

They'd make him shove that mother-fucking card back down to the bottom of the community chest and draw again.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 11 2010, 12:05 AM) *
He ain't no Anderson Silva though. laugh.gif

Anderson Silva couldn't even win second prize in a $10 beauty contest at Monopoly.

They'd make him shove that mother-fucking card back down to the bottom of the community chest and draw again.


Forrest is up there aswell.

kidbazooka1
Gotta go with this ugly f*ck.



Warlord
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 11 2010, 12:17 AM) *
Forrest is up there aswell.



Haha, I remember after his first fight with Bonnar Forrest saw himself on the big screen and immediately crapped out the classic line, "Damn I'm ugly!" laugh.gif

At least he doesn't walk around with pink shirts and gay ass cosmetic glasses though.
AussieLad
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 11 2010, 06:19 AM) *
Gotta go with this ugly f*ck.





-- Hobo, "Simpsons Tall Tales"

Wont'cha listen to my tale that's ten stories tall,
'Bout a king-sized woodsman, name a' Bunyan comma Paul?

"Born mighty big, he continued to expand, thanks to a hopped-up
pituitary gland

"His body grew big, but his brain stayed small. He was tree-
choppin', branch-stompin', house-crushin' Paul,"



Classic example of an overactive pituitary gland... LOL. A melon headed mother fucker
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