QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Dec 1 2010, 09:31 AM)
Sakuraba like royce won when alot of guys were still brawling instead of fighting true mma. While sakuraba was a good fighter with alot of good wins, put in in a ring prime v/s prime against BJ and I think BJ penn wins, but that would be an incredable fight.
Check the numbers, bro. Sakuraba is light years beyond B.J. Penn in the accomplishment department.Kazushi Sakuraba
- 26 wins
Wins 4 (T)KOs ( 15.38 %) 19 Submissions ( 73.08 %)
3 Decisions ( 11.54 %)
Sakuraba finishes nearly 74% of his opponents within the time-limit... by submission alone! Add in TKO/KO finishes, and Kazushi Sakuraba finishes his oppnents 88.46% of the time... that's nearly 90 fucking percent! One of the highest finish rates... ever! Higher than Anderson Silva, the UFC's self-proclaimed GOAT. Higher than Fedor. And higher than Penn.Kazushi Sakuraba
- Greatest Wins [Underlined names are all former champions.]
Win Ikuhisa Minowa Technical Submission (Kimura) Win Ken Shamrock TKO (Punch) Win Kevin Randleman Submission (Armbar)
[UFC Heavyweight Champion] Win Quinton Jackson Submission (Rear Naked Choke)
[UFC Light Heavyweight Champion]
Win Ryan Gracie Decision (Unanimous)
Win Renzo Gracie Technical Submission (Kimura) Win Royce Gracie TKO (Corner Stoppage)
[3-Time UFC Tournament Champion]
Win Guy Mezger TKO (Retirement)
Win Royler Gracie Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Ebenezer Fontes Braga Submission (Armbar) Win Vitor Belfort Decision (Unanimous)
[UFC Heavyweight Champion] Win Carlos Newton Submission (Kneebar)
[UFC Welterweight Champion]
Win Vernon White Submission (Armbar)
Kazushi Sakuraba spent his entire career fighting (and usually beating) men far, far beyond his own weight. He demolished the Gracie clan when the world still saw them as unbeatable. I'll take Sakuraba's wins over Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Rampage Jackson, Vitor Belfort, and Kevin Randleman over any 5 wins that you think define BJ Penn's career.
Wanderlei silva though in my opinion isnt close to BJ Penn all time. Silva lost almost every time he stepped up. He did decision dan henderson, and owned Jackson when Jackson was coming up. And beat up a much smaller sakuraba. but other than that he lost to belfort by tko, tito ortiz, mark hunt and ricardo arona???? really? Lost to chuck liddel, jackson, and rich franklin. Way over rated. Most of his wins were against underqualified fighters in pride.
I'm not going to spend as much time debating Wanderlei's spot as Sakuraba's, because Wanderlei generally gets the respect he deserves.
I'll just say Wanderlei's best victories outweigh Penn's, and Wanderlei's reign as the Pride
Middleweight Champion was one of the longest, most dominant title reigns in MMA history. 6 years he reigned, unquestionably the greatest 205lber in the world at that time. BJ Penn never had, and never will have, those kinds of credentials.
BJ penn beat well rounded fighters like, florian, sherk, hughes (in hughes prime), Sanchez, stevenson, renzo and rodrogo gracie, gomi (in his prime), serra, uno, and din thomas.
You're giving BJ credit for wins that you won't give Wanderlei or Sakuraba credit for.
Florian is a gatekeeper, Sherk is one-dimensional, Hughes isn't from this generation any more than Royce is, Sanchez is shit at 155, Stevenson is shit at any weight, Renzo was 90 when they fought, Rodrigo is like the 34th best Gracie, Gomi was not close to his prime but it is still BJ's best win, Serra is shit, Uno is a good win, and Din Thomas is a never-was who doesn't really merit mentioning in this discussion.
The good old days in mma were not so good. You had a few well rounded fighters who dominated the game over guys who had no clue how to defend themselves. The guys on BJ penns resume are far superior to anything Walderlei accomplished.
I'll take wins over Kazushi Sakuraba (3x), Rampage Jackson(2x), Dan Henderson, and Ricardo Arona over any 7 fights you think define BJ Penn any day of the week.
Anyway, it's nothing personal. I like you, Run, and am glad to be having a real conversation with someone who knows MMA. So don't feel like I'm disrespecting you or shitting on your opinion. I'm not.