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Jack 1000
just want to throw this out for the forum to respond,

Is it just the obvious home-court European representation? Is it that the German's just don't care about their boring methodical safety-first styles of recent years? Why are they so drawn to them, drawing 10,000-20,000 people type crowds when most American's have had it with them, and HBO as pulled the plug on them because at least to American audiences, they have become boring to watch?

This is not intended to be a Klitschko bashing thread, but to ask what do the Germans see in them that Americans don't? Are cultural expectations for the brothers so different between the two countries? Do mediocre title defenses not matter to the Germans? What factors are involved here and why?

Jack
Warlord
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Sep 1 2010, 06:09 PM) *
just want to throw this out for the forum to respond,

Is it just the obvious home-court European representation? Is it that the German's just don't care about their boring methodical safety-first styles of recent years?

I guess I should make a similar thread asking the exact same thing about Floyd Mayweather. At least the Klits have a high kill rate. Gayweather just stands around shooting blanks all night.

QUOTE
Why are they so drawn to them, drawing 10,000-20,000 people type crowds when most American's have had it with them, and HBO as pulled the plug on them because at least to American audiences, they have become boring to watch?

This is not intended to be a Klitschko bashing thread, but to ask what do the Germans see in them that Americans don't? Are cultural expectations for the brothers so different between the two countries? Do mediocre title defenses not matter to the Germans? What factors are involved here and why?

Jack

1.) Wladimir Klitschko has the best comp record of any active heavyweight in the world (aside from Evander Holyfield.) Name ONE fighter you THINK he should have fought that he HASN'T fought already.

2.) Let's see, which American heavyweight is there for Europeans to get behind again...........................................................................
..................................?

3.) I reckon I'm gonna step out on a HUGE limb here, but I think, in general, most European fans would rather get behind a well-spoken, articulate, intelligent, mild-mannered, technical fighter (the Klits), than say... I don't know, the top fighter from the U.S., a brash, loud-mouthed, whiny, over-sensitive, over-compensating bitch with daddy issues who is so adept at slipping punches that he has taken the defensive art-form to a new level. This level of course being that he doesn't even get in the ring with his top opponents.

Gee... it sure is hard to understand, ain't it?
thehype
Actually, I really don't think Europeans discriminate when it comes to who they get behind or who they don't get behind. I thitnk they'll get behind anyone if they deem them to be one of the best, which both of the Klitschko's have clearly proven. I think what's MORE IMPORTANT is that Europeans get behind the SPORT OF BOXING as a whole, so THAT'S why you see a big difference in the crowds. Honestly, even if it was Floyd Mayweather who fought over there, he'd probably pack them in too...not because they "back him", but because they appreciate the sweet science. Seeing as how half of my family still lives over in Germany, I can assure you that there are plenty of Germans who are just as frustrated with the Klitschkos as some of you guys are. But like I said, most Europeans tend to appreciate the sweet science a lot more than the average fan, so seeing Klitschko beat someone with just a jab or watching Mayweather should roll his way to victory isn't necessarily boring to them. Just my take on it though.

On a side note, I'd still love to see either Klitschko try to thump James Toney.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 1 2010, 07:53 PM) *
I guess I should make a similar thread asking the exact same thing about Floyd Mayweather. At least the Klits have a high kill rate. Gayweather just stands around shooting blanks all night.


1.) Wladimir Klitschko has the best comp record of any active heavyweight in the world (aside from Evander Holyfield.) Name ONE fighter you THINK he should have fought that he HASN'T fought already.

2.) Let's see, which American heavyweight is there for Europeans to get behind again...........................................................................
..................................?

3.) I reckon I'm gonna step out on a HUGE limb here, but I think, in general, most European fans would rather get behind a well-spoken, articulate, intelligent, mild-mannered, technical fighter (the Klits), than say... I don't know, the top fighter from the U.S., a brash, loud-mouthed, whiny, over-sensitive, over-compensating bitch with daddy issues who is so adept at slipping punches that he has taken the defensive art-form to a new level. This level of course being that he doesn't even get in the ring with his top opponents.

Gee... it sure is hard to understand, ain't it?


I agree with your sentiments if not your assessment. It still doesn't explain why they get in behind 2 guys that have such a lame ass boring style. They also love Huck and Abraham who certainly aren't as technically gifted as the Klits but at least bring a killer instinct into the ring. I can understand why they support those guys. But the Klits??

I would like to see them fight Briggs, Tua and Toney. Fuck it I know they beat all 3 but I've seen them fight the current crop so why not those guys.
Lil-lightsout
I have no problem with Vitali as far as his style goes, he opens up pretty much and is aggressive, and still fights a smart fight for the most part. I don't mind his style so much, cause he opens up more.

Wladamir fights like a big pussy too much. Sure he has that right to, but we the paying fans ALSO have the right to not watch his boring ass and degrade him. That mother fucker would still be fighting on HBO if he did not have that way to safety style. Look at the fighters in recent fights.

Chambers KO 12. We had to wait 12 rounds until you iced this feather fisted heavy?

Chagaev- BORING!!! Snoozefest.

Rahman TKO 7. This takes the cake. Should have been KO1, but you refused to throw anything with a dead man in front of you.

Thompson KO11. Another snoozefest with no real damaging punches throughout.

Ibragimov W12. Can I say snoozefest yet again? Who the heck wants to watch this shit?

Now sure his opponents could have some things to attribute to shitty fights. But damn Wladamir is fucking huge and highly skilled with great leverage and power, he should be icing mother fuckers(and early on). Not dancing and prancing and pawing his jab around the ring for most of the night. That is the difference with PBF IMO, he is not a huge power puncher, and most his opponents have the power advantage on him. And do not confuse this with me saying anything about Wlad's competition, cause Wlad has fought the best available there is, no denying that. Most people have a problem with his style of fighting. And if you do like it, more power to you, I just find him terribly boring considering all his great physical tools he has.
Warlord
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 1 2010, 11:30 PM) *
I have no problem with Vitali as far as his style goes, he opens up pretty much and is aggressive, and still fights a smart fight for the most part. I don't mind his style so much, cause he opens up more.

Wladamir fights like a big pussy too much. Sure he has that right to, but we the paying fans ALSO have the right to not watch his boring ass and degrade him. That mother fucker would still be fighting on HBO if he did not have that way to safety style. Look at the fighters in recent fights.

Chambers KO 12. We had to wait 12 rounds until you iced this feather fisted heavy?

Chagaev- BORING!!! Snoozefest.

Rahman TKO 7. This takes the cake. Should have been KO1, but you refused to throw anything with a dead man in front of you.

Thompson KO11. Another snoozefest with no real damaging punches throughout.

Ibragimov W12. Can I say snoozefest yet again? Who the heck wants to watch this shit?

Now sure his opponents could have some things to attribute to shitty fights. But damn Wladamir is fucking huge and highly skilled with great leverage and power, he should be icing mother fuckers(and early on). Not dancing and prancing and pawing his jab around the ring for most of the night. That is the difference with PBF IMO, he is not a huge power puncher, and most his opponents have the power advantage on him. And do not confuse this with me saying anything about Wlad's competition, cause Wlad has fought the best available there is, no denying that. Most people have a problem with his style of fighting. And if you do like it, more power to you, I just find him terribly boring considering all his great physical tools he has.

Wlad's chin dictates that he fight cautiously. I mean, let's not forget, this is boxing. Lose once and you're a fucking over-rated has-been never-was fucking bum. You gotta win by whatever means are available to you.

Fans have a right to hate your style or love it. That's cool. I just get burned when cats start cherry-picking fighters to hate on, while stroking the balls of another fighter, when both are guilty of the same things, ala Wlad and Gayweather. Both are defensive fighters, period.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 2 2010, 12:55 AM) *
Wlad's chin dictates that he fight cautiously. I mean, let's not forget, this is boxing. Lose once and you're a fucking over-rated has-been never-was fucking bum. You gotta win by whatever means are available to you.

Fans have a right to hate your style or love it. That's cool. I just get burned when cats start cherry-picking fighters to hate on, while stroking the balls of another fighter, when both are guilty of the same things, ala Wlad and Gayweather. Both are defensive fighters, period.


I do understand why he chooses to fight the way he does, not that I totally agree with it though as a fan. To me he should kind of find the middle ground. Not fight reckless and throwing bombs trying to take guys out, or on the other hand being a really laid back type of fighter who takes very little chances, he should just kind of fight in the middle of those two. You know what I mean.

I totally understand what you are saying about protecting his chin, just does not help his marketability, at least here the USA. IMO if he would have demolished some of these recent guys much sooner and showed more intensity, he would be way more popular and people would want to see him ice another fool. I am actually looking forward to his fight with Peter next, one thing Peter got is some raw power, and it should have some tense moments IF Peter actually comes to fight that night?

Hahaha. You are right, the day Wlad loses, you will see all these guys come out of the woodwork calling him a bum. laugh.gif
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 2 2010, 01:00 AM) *
LL, he's protecting his glass jaw. Case closed.


I have been thinking about this. Is it more his jaw itself, or his mentality in tough situations? Just wondering on your opinion.
Warlord
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 2 2010, 12:24 AM) *
I have been thinking about this. Is it more his jaw itself, or his mentality in tough situations? Just wondering on your opinion.

Wlad has ALWAYS picked himself up off the canvas. He's never been put out cold with one punch. It's always taken multiple knockdowns for guys to finish Wlad.

Unlike Lennox Lewis, who NEVER found a way to pick himself up off the canvas.

Wlad got off the deck 3 times to beat Sam Peter and retain his title. I don't think his mentality should be in doubt at this point.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Why would you need to protect your chin from Eddie Chambers?
rusty_trombone
This is like asking, why is sarah palin still loved so much by fucking idiots?
Jack 1000
QUOTE
I am actually looking forward to his fight with Peter next, one thing Peter got is some raw power, and it should have some tense moments IF Peter actually comes to fight that night?


Agree,

Will Peter give a shit? If he does, I don't think he'll win, but it could be interesting. But we saw his "Come for a paycheck" mentality before, and most likely will see it again.

Jack
Warlord
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 2 2010, 02:36 AM) *
Why would you need to protect your chin from Eddie Chambers?

Wlad has to protect his chin from a stiff wind, brother. Don't even talk about Eddie Chambers. And this ain't hating, as I've obviously defended the Klits here time and time again. But baby bro. definitely has to do what he can to protect himself. Every time he's tried to come out guns blazing he's been punished for it.

Too bad he doesn't have Vitali's chin.
blackbelt2003
The Klits are both pretty dull (even Vit, who was a genuinely entertaining fighter earlier in his career), but they shouldn't change their styles to suit fans.

If every fighter has to worry about being 'fan friendly', we may as well wrap the sport up now and tune into WWE. 'Boring' fighters are part of the game, always have been. Having a few highly skilled but dull fighters up top makes us appreciate the sluggers like Gatti, Corrales and Morales. If every fighter tried to fight like Gatti to entertain the crowd, it would become dull pretty quickly.

In the 90's, we saw plenty of sluggers and KO artists. Right now, there is a dearth of them and we've got a generation of 'cute' boxers. It'll all come round again. Don't force it, though, just let fighters fight their fights for themselves, not for the crowd.

There's another Gatti around the corner, ready to energise boxing once again, there always is.




Black
D-MARV
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 2 2010, 02:00 AM) *
Wlad has ALWAYS picked himself up off the canvas. He's never been put out cold with one punch. It's always taken multiple knockdowns for guys to finish Wlad.

Unlike Lennox Lewis, who NEVER found a way to pick himself up off the canvas.

Wlad got off the deck 3 times to beat Sam Peter and retain his title. I don't think his mentality should be in doubt at this point.

Are you implying that Lewis was mentally weak?
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 2 2010, 02:00 AM) *
Unlike Lennox Lewis, who NEVER found a way to pick himself up off the canvas.


Actually he got up in time and beat the count against McCall in their first fight and had his gloves up ready to continue. It was the referee that stopped the fight, which you then can clearly see LL protesting the stoppage.

That bomb Rahman hit LL with would have KO'd 9 out of 10 guys IMO.
BGv2.0
Man...other than some brain dead Kraut....I have no idea why anybody would want to defend the Klits.

Honestly comparing Wlad to PBF is not a good comparison....bottom line is that a HW the sheer size and strength of Wlad has ZERO business fighting the way he does...other than protecting a weak ass chin. AND...although I do get him protecting it against the likes of Rahman and Peter....there is ZERO excuse to do the same with the likes of Chambers and Thompson.

I'm glad this question was asked because I have never understood it....not at all. I mean Euro's in general seem to accept that straight up robotic style a little better than the U.S.....and to a point I can let that go.

BUT the German's seem to really catch wood from it.....to fill up the arena's the way they do for the same old shit over and over....I don't get it.

And make no mistake...it is the gotdamn germans....because nobody else seems to be bankrolling the Klits. They failed to catch fire here in America...I don't see any other country paying them time and time again for the same old BS....not even their own country...

Barring some secret homoerotic desire to bugger the Klits in their bungs....I have no idea why the German's eat this shit up!
ROLL DEEP
A few people have said it but:


The main reason that Germany - not 'Europeans' as ALL the European countries aren't the same - like the Klits is that they like boxing as a whole. They just love the sport so having TWO heavyweight champs is the icing on the cake.

Plus, I think, as a nation, they're not into the whole bling, bling, trash talking, yo' momma, I'm a fuck you up and have sex with your mom type attitude that some fighters have.


Sorry BG, but I actually don't mind them. I don't mind they're a little boring. It's nice to see fighters who are so superior to everyone else, that they can dismantle and totally outclass everyone they get in with. A few more KO's would be nice, but i respect their patience, skill and athleticism when they fight.


lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Sep 3 2010, 03:56 PM) *
A few people have said it but:


The main reason that Germany - not 'Europeans' as ALL the European countries aren't the same - like the Klits is that they like boxing as a whole. They just love the sport so having TWO heavyweight champs is the icing on the cake.

Plus, I think, as a nation, they're not into the whole bling, bling, trash talking, yo' momma, I'm a fuck you up and have sex with your mom type attitude that some fighters have.


Sorry BG, but I actually don't mind them. I don't mind they're a little boring. It's nice to see fighters who are so superior to everyone else, that they can dismantle and totally outclass everyone they get in with. A few more KO's would be nice, but i respect their patience, skill and athleticism when they fight.


Dont even bother with that one, i'v tried several times, you fuckin Eurobum!!
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Sep 3 2010, 10:02 AM) *
Dont even bother with that one, i'v tried several times, you fuckin Eurobum!!



laugh.gif


I know, it's like lumping together America, Canada, Brazil, Mexico and all the surrounding islands as one and then classing them as 'those yanks'.
Warlord
QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Sep 3 2010, 03:07 PM) *
laugh.gif


I know, it's like lumping together America, Canada, Brazil, Mexico and all the surrounding islands as one and then classing them as 'those yanks'.

Hey brother, count your blessings. In China, the perception is even smaller. Here, there are only 2 countries in the entire world. China, and "The West."

And if you're a white honkey, it immediately makes you an oracle who can give a summation of every "westerner's" thoughts, feelings, beliefs, opinions, etc...

If you're black, brown, tan, or anything else, it really throws them for a loop, because they must then assume that a 3rd continent exists, which they mythically refer to as "Afric." Not Africa, but "Afric."

I got a buddy from Clapham (south of London) who happens to be black. Which of course really means, to dumb Chinese, that he must be from Afric. Oh, there are some disagreements. For instance, they disagree on who he resembles most. Kobe of Michael Jordan. (The guy is pushing 50, and resembles neither in the slightest.)

I swear, one dude actually said to him, "Tell me about... the jungle!" And he was FUCKING SERIOUS! Like my dude is riding fucking elephants to work and shit.

Goddamn Chinese, taking retardism to a whole new level. Sorry Snoop, you know it's true.
Snoop
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 4 2010, 04:39 AM) *
Hey brother, count your blessings. In China, the perception is even smaller. Here, there are only 2 countries in the entire world. China, and "The West."

And if you're a white honkey, it immediately makes you an oracle who can give a summation of every "westerner's" thoughts, feelings, beliefs, opinions, etc...

If you're black, brown, tan, or anything else, it really throws them for a loop, because they must then assume that a 3rd continent exists, which they mythically refer to as "Afric." Not Africa, but "Afric."

I got a buddy from Clapham (south of London) who happens to be black. Which of course really means, to dumb Chinese, that he must be from Afric. Oh, there are some disagreements. For instance, they disagree on who he resembles most. Kobe of Michael Jordan. (The guy is pushing 50, and resembles neither in the slightest.)

I swear, one dude actually said to him, "Tell me about... the jungle!" And he was FUCKING SERIOUS! Like my dude is riding fucking elephants to work and shit.

Goddamn Chinese, taking retardism to a whole new level. Sorry Snoop, you know it's true.

LMAO. The sad thing is, I can imagine all those conversations happening in China.

But ignorance exists everywhere. I had stupid shit said to me while I was traveling through Latin America, like EVERYONE calling me Jackie Chan or Jet Li, asking me what the ENTIRE country of China was like (even though I've never been there), and countless people just pulling up the skin behind their eyes, and bucking their teeth. After a while, I just had to laugh at it.

On the flip side, I also met some great people who totally understood that there actually could be an Asian guy that grew up in the States, or Australia, or the UK, or wherever nobody else think Asians would be, so I have to believe there are those people in China. Just sorry you had to deal with the short end of the stick so far dude.


Warlord
QUOTE (Snoop @ Sep 3 2010, 11:02 PM) *
LMAO. The sad thing is, I can imagine all those conversations happening in China.

But ignorance exists everywhere. I had stupid shit said to me while I was traveling through Latin America, like EVERYONE calling me Jackie Chan or Jet Li, asking me what the ENTIRE country of China was like (even though I've never been there), and countless people just pulling up the skin behind their eyes, and bucking their teeth. After a while, I just had to laugh at it.

On the flip side, I also met some great people who totally understood that there actually could be an Asian guy that grew up in the States, or Australia, or the UK, or wherever nobody else think Asians would be, so I have to believe there are those people in China. Just sorry you had to deal with the short end of the stick so far dude.

It's cool, bro. My wife is Chinese, so don't think I'm just backhanding this country. Every country, as you've said, is home to its own unique brand of massive stupidity. This place just sucks the soul though. I've never experienced anything quite like it. laugh.gif
King Eugene
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 3 2010, 11:39 PM) *
I swear, one dude actually said to him, "Tell me about... the jungle!" And he was FUCKING SERIOUS! Like my dude is riding fucking elephants to work and shit.

Goddamn Chinese, taking retardism to a whole new level. Sorry Snoop, you know it's true.

I swear that was so damn funny I don't even think I would have been offended. Probably just laughed and walked off.
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 3 2010, 10:39 PM) *
Hey brother, count your blessings. In China, the perception is even smaller. Here, there are only 2 countries in the entire world. China, and "The West."

And if you're a white honkey, it immediately makes you an oracle who can give a summation of every "westerner's" thoughts, feelings, beliefs, opinions, etc...

If you're black, brown, tan, or anything else, it really throws them for a loop, because they must then assume that a 3rd continent exists, which they mythically refer to as "Afric." Not Africa, but "Afric."

I got a buddy from Clapham (south of London) who happens to be black. Which of course really means, to dumb Chinese, that he must be from Afric. Oh, there are some disagreements. For instance, they disagree on who he resembles most. Kobe of Michael Jordan. (The guy is pushing 50, and resembles neither in the slightest.)

I swear, one dude actually said to him, "Tell me about... the jungle!" And he was FUCKING SERIOUS! Like my dude is riding fucking elephants to work and shit.

Goddamn Chinese, taking retardism to a whole new level. Sorry Snoop, you know it's true.



Hahahaha. Man, I love ignorant people. They make the world go round laugh.gif
Snoop
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 4 2010, 05:31 AM) *
It's cool, bro. My wife is Chinese, so don't think I'm just backhanding this country. Every country, as you've said, is home to its own unique brand of massive stupidity. This place just sucks the soul though. I've never experienced anything quite like it. laugh.gif

I think it's due to the underlying inferiority/superiority complex that the country of China suffers from. The reason I was able to laugh at those Asian jokes later was because I realized that 90% of the time it was just someone's way of breaking the ice, busting my balls, or they just had a sincere misunderstanding of the world. At least from my experience, Chinese people will think the same shit because they think their race is superior. Not everyone of course, but at least more than in other cultures, which is why I have very few Chinese friends. laugh.gif
Warlord
QUOTE (Snoop @ Sep 4 2010, 02:31 PM) *
I think it's due to the underlying inferiority/superiority complex that the country of China suffers from. The reason I was able to laugh at those Asian jokes later was because I realized that 90% of the time it was just someone's way of breaking the ice, busting my balls, or they just had a sincere misunderstanding of the world. At least from my experience, Chinese people will think the same shit because they think their race is superior. Not everyone of course, but at least more than in other cultures, which is why I have very few Chinese friends. laugh.gif

You hit the nail on the head right there, as far as mainland China goes. I've never, in my entire life, been around more nationalistic assholes than I have here.

It is sad, actually. And unbelievable. For a country that has been through as much shit as China has, I continue to wonder how they can maintain this ignorant air of superiority.

But, the truth is, superiority complexes are fed by inferiority complexes. I think deep down, most mainland Chinese harbor deep feelings of inferiority. Dirty, poor, ass-backwards farmers running a form of government that is a proven failure. Bereft of true culture, parroting manufactured culture, living on faded past glories that never were, absent of creativity or independence, chained to formality and empty ritual. Watching as other great Asian superpowers around them grow, independent and free, with true ties to a past culture that have not been severed through greed, selfishness, and self-mutilation.

It is a weakness prevalent in the middle east as well. People with nothing take defeat and turn it into victory. Taking pride in victim-hood, laying the troubles they have at the doorstep of those who are stronger. Looking down their noses at the strong, but forced to do so while looking up.

People who've never spent time outside North America or the strong European powers can never really understand this. But those who have, must have some inkling of what I've said.
The Original MrFactor
There is no NFL, NBA, NHL or MLB in Germany. There is soccer and Boxing. To have the 2 heavyweight champs fight in Germany is a BIG deal because there are no other outlets there. Its not like folks can go to the equivalent of the Falcons vs the Saints every week. Fewer outlets in Germany creates a market for the Klits to flourish in.
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