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Full Version: How about James Toney v Chris Arreola?
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SmartyBeardo
I'd char some flesh and watch it.

One thing about Arreola is he isn't afraid to fight anyone. If JT could manage to get by Arreola, it could get him the shot at a Klit he has squawked so much about.

It is a very marketable fight in the USA. JT has a following and Arreola would get the Latino vote.

Seems like a no-brainer moneymaker. You would think that Burger King would jump at the chance to sponsor the event.
thehype
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 2 2010, 07:50 AM) *
I'd char some flesh and watch it.

One thing about Arreola is he isn't afraid to fight anyone. If JT could manage to get by Arreola, it could get him the shot at a Klit he has squawked so much about.

It is a very marketable fight in the USA. JT has a following and Arreola would get the Latino vote.

Seems like a no-brainer moneymaker. You would think that Burger King would jump at the chance to sponsor the event.


Al Haymon, Arreola's manager, has repeatedly turned down a fight with Toney...too much risk according to Haymon.

In my opinion, Toney gives Arreola the type of experience he'll need if he truly plans on becoming a champion.

But you're right...that fight seems like a no-brainer. You just have to convince Al Haymon that.

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D-MARV
I think Arreola outworks Toney.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Sep 2 2010, 02:03 PM) *
I think Arreola outworks Toney.


I hate to admit this, but I agree with you. Toney had 9 months of training and we saw how he looked. Toney just does not have the discipline to shed weight and be active enough in the ring. Toney by a miracle comes in under 220, then I would pick him in a heart beat.
JLUVBABY
toney doesnt get by arreola... if peter can beat him with his style im sure srreola pounds out a decision but it would def be good experience for him...
thehype
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Sep 2 2010, 02:03 PM) *
I think Arreola outworks Toney.


Al Haymon would disagree with you....otherwise the fight would have already been made.
thehype
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 2 2010, 05:50 PM) *
I hate to admit this, but I agree with you. Toney had 9 months of training and we saw how he looked. Toney just does not have the discipline to shed weight and be active enough in the ring. Toney by a miracle comes in under 220, then I would pick him in a heart beat.


James Toney didn't have 9 months of training. He didn't even sign with the UFC until March...and then he really didn't even start training seriously until April. And even when he was training, half that time was spent just trying to learn how to get off of his back if taken down. Not to mention, you probably couldn't even tell me what weight he actually started at when he did start training, so how do you even know how much weight he did or did not shed? I mean, if he started at 280 pounds, then getting down to 237 is actually an accomplishment for Toney.

But regardless, I'll take the more skilled, older fat guy over the lesser skilled, younger, fatter guy any day. Arreola is terrible. Al Haymon is no fool. There's a reason why Arreola is fed the Brian Mintos and the Manuel Quezadas of the world as opposed to a future Hall of Famer, who would look a lot more impressive on his resume.
thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 2 2010, 05:58 PM) *
It's funny in a pathetic way when you say it like that. It's an accomplishment for a morbidly obese pro athlete to lose weight and go from morbidly obese to just a fat cunt. Not an accomplishment to be proud of

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I would probably take Arreola over Toney as well. If Tarver is going to heavy, those two guys should fight.


Shit, getting fucking Arreola to go from 255 to 235 is a fucking accomplishment for him, so I don't know why you seem to think it's funny in a pathetic way just for James Toney. I mean, last time I checked, Arreola's fat ass has consistently come in even fatter in just about every fight, so being the much younger and supposedly hungrier guy, what's his excuse? If James Toney is just a fat cunt, then what the fuck does that make Arreola's lazy fuckin ass...especially considering that his own trainer will tell you that his ass will disappear for weeks without even training? James Toney has a lot more to proud of then Arreola's excuse-making ass.

You can take Arreola over Toney all you want...in fact, just keep his fat ass all to yourself because boxing doesn't need his ass. He ain't beating James Toney...and if he can, then why the fuck won't Goossen make that fight considering that he has both fighters?

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Tarver SHOULD be fighting Toney...especially since he called James Toney on the phone last year talking about wanting to make a fight and then decided to back out like a bitch. And if they do ever fight, which is doubtful because Tarver's ass is too afraid to take that Pepsi challenge, James Toney undresses his defense with ease.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 2 2010, 06:58 PM) *
It's funny in a pathetic way when you say it like that. It's an accomplishment for a morbidly obese pro athlete to lose weight and go from morbidly obese to just a fat cunt. Not an accomplishment to be proud of

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I would probably take Arreola over Toney as well. If Tarver is going to heavy, those two guys should fight.


LOL.

Toney has been a provne bust at Heavyweight. This fight would be two fatties whose amount of words spoken during the press tour would double the amount of punches (my estiamation 12 punches thrown per round) thrown in the fight.
thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 2 2010, 06:47 PM) *
You seem to be arguing a point I never made, lol. Can you show me where I defended Arreola? He is a tub of shit as well. Did I say otherwise somewhere? lol.

By the way, Toney is still FATTER than Arreola and by a large margin. Arreola is a heavyweight, he is 6"4. Toney was a middleweight and like 5"11 and should probably be a light heavy or cruiser. Just because Arreola weighs more, doesn't mean he is fatter. He is naturally bigger than Toney so he is naturally going to weigh more, because he is a natural heavyweight.

Arreola is a fat cunt, no doubt about it. But Toney is worse. A heavyweight being out of shape and being a heavyweight, or a middleweight being fat and fighting a heavyweight. Who do you seriously think is fatter? You are looking at the end weight, but not taking natural body weight, height and size into consideration.
That's like having Hatton weighing around 190 pounds and saying Peter is fatter because he weighs more, lol. It's not just about final weight. But regardless, at the end of the day they are both lazy and overweight, Toney more so.
Don't you find it funny in a pathetic weigh when you have to pat a proffesional athlete on the back because he would go from morbidly obese, to just fat? Mind you, we are talking about a professional athlete and not just an every day Joe that you pat on the back for losing weight.


I'm not arguing anything...nor did I ever say you were defending Arreola...so no clue where that shit's coming from. LOL. I was simply pointing out the fact that you hold a certain standard for a 40-something-year-old, but you would favor a 20-something-year-old oaf who violates that same standard and has even WORSE training habits. I'm not arguing any point at all other than maybe the fact that I would take Toney over Arreola. But as far as me implying that you were defending Arreola, I don't think I said that at all in my post. If you took it that way...well...that's on you...but I certainly never said it.

By the way, I never said Arreola was fatter than Toney. Did I say that somewhere? I certainly don't recall saying that. Thanks for the very analytical breakdown of body weight vs. height, but it was unnecessary. What I DO find funny is that you went through all that trouble to give examples and shit when nobody was even arguing that. What I DID say, however, is that Arreola has continued to come into the ring even fatter, and fatter, and fatter, and fatter ever since he started to make a little name for himself. He went into the biggest fight of his life weighing more than he had ever weighed before. His own damn trainer tells us all the time how he skips out from training camp for weeks on end. At the end of the day, yeah, they're both overweight, but when it comes to putting in work at the gym, Toney puts it in, whereas Arreola....well....that's debateable.

And for the record, I wasn't patting him on the back....but thanks, once again, for reading way more into something than what's really there. I was simply pointing out the fact that those that are claiming that Toney "disgraced boxing" and "didn't train" based solely on his weight are inaccurate...especially if you have no fucking clue at what weight he started at. I'm not arguing whether or not he's skinny, fat, or whatever. I'm simply saying that there's a difference between not training and just being fat and I can assure you, Toney definitely trained for the fight. The fool started off close to 280 pounds, so the weight was definitely coming off. I mean, could he have gotten down to 215? Sure...I guess...but truth be told, I don't even know how good it would have been for him to drop nearly 60 pounds in 4 months. Arreola, on the other hand, is NOT cutting 40 pounds of fat to get down to 255 pounds. So when I say there's a difference between Arreola training and Toney training, THAT'S what I'm referring to.
thehype
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Sep 2 2010, 06:41 PM) *
LOL.

Toney has been a provne bust at Heavyweight. This fight would be two fatties whose amount of words spoken during the press tour would double the amount of punches (my estiamation 12 punches thrown per round) thrown in the fight.


A bust compared to who? David Haye?

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Warlord
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Sep 2 2010, 07:41 PM) *
LOL.

Toney has been a provne bust at Heavyweight.

James has some nice wins at heavyweight. He beat a legit heavyweight for a legit portion of the heavyweight title. (Regardless of whatever came after.)

I think that's pretty damn respectable for a guy who had no business fighting at heavyweight to begin with. It's easy to rag on him now because he's in his 40s and dropping decisions to guys like Sam Peter. In terms of wear-and-tear, he's even older. I for one got nothing for respect for James Toney.

Does he belong in MMA? No.

Would either of the Klits turn him into a brown shit stain in the middle of the ring? Yes.

Is he an under-achiever? Perhaps.

But I don't think he's been a bust at any weight, not by a damn sight.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (thehype @ Sep 2 2010, 08:56 PM) *
A bust compared to who? David Haye?

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Compared to the dick riding he was receiving beyween 03-05 and the residue of said dixk riding that still occurs today.
BigG
Agreed with Fitz that Toney is a bigger fatass because he isn't even a real Heavyweight. He is not physically strong at this weight. He is small and fat at this weight. Arreola is a natural Heavyweight but he should be 210 or 215 or something if he trained like Hopkins. IMO Toney should be at about CW at least.
BoxingStill#1
Who's the fattest guy???.....

This is our current american HW division.....
thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 3 2010, 12:18 AM) *
Well, you just said it. You say I am not defending Arreola and the next sentence you say that I hold a different standard. I don't hold a different standard, I didn't even mention Arreola. This is what you said:

"I mean, if he started at 280 pounds, then getting down to 237 is actually an accomplishment for Toney. " - thehype.

All I said was that it's funny in a pathetic way that a pro athlete gets patted on he back from going from morbidly obese to fat. If you said the same thing about Arreola, I would have made the comment. You didn't say that about Arreola, so I only commented on Toney which in that little exchange, you assumed I held a different standard for Arreola. I just didn't comment on Arreola because you weren't talking about him. If you like, you can say the same statement, and I can provide the same answer. That was I can say it about both guys to make you happy, lol. They are both fat. I just commented on Toney because that was the only guy you talked about.


This entire thread is about James Toney AND Chris Arreola, so OF COURSE I'm going to be talking about both of them...not just one...but again, I never said you were "defending" Arreola. In fact, I wasn't even addressing you in my initial post where you took that quote from...I was addressing someone else as I was discussing BOTH Toney AND Arreola, but since you felt the need to comment on what I said about Toney, I simply pointed out the fact that, like you just said, you only had the comment for Toney being the "fat cunt", when Arreola is FAR worse when it comes to training habits. Maybe you meant that they're BOTH fat cunts...in which case, whatever...but that doesn't change anything that I said. I never said you were defending Arreola...nor am I defending Toney...fat is fat, no argument from me there...although, as you so astutely pointed out, Arreola is a lot taller than Toney, making his body fat less than Toney's...but hey, you're not defending Arreola, right, so who really cares?

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But like I said, the thread is about Toney AND Arreola, therefore, my comments, analysis, breakdown, etc. are going to address both Toney AND Arreola. I'm not saying you were defending Arreola, but instead, I'm simply stating that if Toney going from 280 to 237 is a bad thing and an indication that he's not training, then what does that say about Arreola who goes from 261 to 257 after 12 weeks of training?

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Holding a different standard doesn't mean that you're defending him. It simply means you're opinion of a guy is skewed because you hold that guy to a different standard. Case in point....

QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 3 2010, 12:18 AM) *
By the way, I am not favouring Arreola because his training habits are better, worse or because he is more or less fat than Toney. I am favouring Arreola because Toney is in his 40's, out of shape, not in his prime, won't have the power to hurt Arreola. If Peter can beat Toney, I don't see what's wrong about edging Arreola a few years after he lost to Peter. If anything, James has declined since then. Not writing him off, but I lean towards Arreola.


I mean, that's cool...you can have that opinion and you can lean towards Arreola all you want. But where's the talk about Arreola's training habits? Where's the talk about Arreola declining? He certainly hasn't looked better since he took the drubbing from Vitali. His training habits have gotten worse and worse, despite the fact that he continues to say he's in the best shape of his life. I mean, again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your defending him and it's cool to not even mention any of that stuff, but don't jump down my throat and say that I'm accusing you of defending a guy simply because I ask those questions. I'm not arguing a point or saying you're defeding him...I'm simply asking why you would pick him when he's proven to be much worse than Toney when it comes to training habits and skills.

And for the record, I didn't bring Arreola into this...the topic starter did...and in your reply to my post, which wasn't even directed towards you, you said you would pick Arreola over Toney. So Your Honor, let the record state that it was indeed Fitz who first mentioned the name "Arreola" in his reply to a post, which wasn't even directed towards him, by thehype dated September 2, 2010 at 6:58PM ET.

Truth be told, you're getting way too caught up on who's fat or fatter, when all I was referring to was who's got the better training habits. THAT'S what my initial post was talking about. Not that one guy is a fatter SOB than the other, but that a person's weight on the scale isn't necessarily an indication of how seriously they trained if you have no idea what weight they started at. I'm pretty sure that's what I was getting at when I was referring to Arreola's weight compared to Toney's. How that got lost in translation is totally beyond me.

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But whatever. It's all good. Misunderstanding I take it. We'll just leave it at they're both fat.

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James Toney STILL whips Arreola and his brittle hands. Shit, Sam Peter whips his ass too. As Adamek easily proved, you don't even have to be a big puncher to whip his ass. LOL.
thehype
QUOTE (BigG @ Sep 3 2010, 12:37 AM) *
Agreed with Fitz that Toney is a bigger fatass because he isn't even a real Heavyweight. He is not physically strong at this weight. He is small and fat at this weight. Arreola is a natural Heavyweight but he should be 210 or 215 or something if he trained like Hopkins. IMO Toney should be at about CW at least.


Isn't a "real heavyweight"? Compared to who? Eddie Chambers? David Haye?

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And what exactly is your definition of physically strong? I have yet to see any "real heavyweight" push Toney around like he's too small in there. In fact, on the contrary, most fighters that I've spoken to who have been in the ring with him all tell me, "Shit, Toney's a strong dude." Every single one of them. His small and fat ass sure as hell did make Hasim Rahman bitch up...and ironically, shortly after that fight, it was Rahman who got the shot at Klitschko, not Toney. He also beat the crap out of Evander Holyfield, who ironically got the shot at Valuev, not Toney. Shit, I wouldn't be surprised if Holyfield got a shot at David Haye before James Toney did...but Toney's the one who's washed up and shouldn't be competing at heavyweight, right?

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Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 3 2010, 10:55 AM) *
I'd love to see what all the young dudes talking shit about JT being fat will look like when they are his age.

I worked out hard for three months straight, before my little expedition, and I could only go from being a 248 pound sack of mashed potatoes to being a 238 pound sack of boiled potatoes.

My cardio and strength are good but I will never fit into my dress blues again.

It is easy to talk shit when it is easy to stay in shape. It is a whole different view from the other side of the hill.


In this case it has been confirmed by Toney himself that he doesn't train or eat properly. Age does factor into the equation but let's not make it out like the guy is in his 50's. Maybe if he worked out once in a while, those steroids he takes would have yielded results by now.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Sep 2 2010, 07:41 PM) *
LOL.

Toney has been a provne bust at Heavyweight. This fight would be two fatties whose amount of words spoken during the press tour would double the amount of punches (my estiamation 12 punches thrown per round) thrown in the fight.


James had solid wins against OK journeymen Booker and Guinn, beat Ruiz (Ok Ok I now what happened after) and owned Holyfield in a way that hasn't happened before or since. I thought he was well on his way to knocking Rahman out in their second fight before Hasim cried off with that cut. Yeah he has been patchy but I wouldn't call it a bust either.
Method
"The match made in fast food heaven"

Fanfuckingtastic.
Mean Mister Mustard
I give him credit for having busted up an old Holyfield but not too much becaue it was after all an ancient one. He did show his class against Booker and Guinn but he never did more than that afterwards, all he did was flap his gums about how he would be the undisputed heavyweight champ. Bust.
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