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flazi
I was thinking about this saturday night as Rios beat the crap out of peterson. When the fight started i noticed how much bigger and fuller Rios was than Peterson. Then their fight night weight was announced. Rios blew up to 151 while Peterson wen to 139. Peterson really had no shot. He couldn't hurt the bigger man. I see this a lot in my sport. I am a power lifter. I weigh around 215 and compete in the 220 class. there are guys that weigh in 220 but the next day when we compete i can tell they are way bigger than me. some come in around 235 but since they weighed in under the limit then can compete and they blow me out of the water. For years i have just dealt with it but now i am thinking if this is fair or should i do the same as they do, get some water pills and go down to 198 then rehydrate back up to my normal weight of 215 and blow the competition at 198 out of the water. I honestly haven't done that because i feel its cheating. what do you guys think?
E.C.LEGEND
I think there should be a limit or same day weigh-ins. But you can argue the fact that a fighter can hurt himself, by draining his body to make weight, and not have an advantage at all.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (flazi @ Sep 14 2010, 05:14 PM) *
I was thinking about this saturday night as Rios beat the crap out of peterson. When the fight started i noticed how much bigger and fuller Rios was than Peterson. Then their fight night weight was announced. Rios blew up to 151 while Peterson wen to 139. Peterson really had no shot. He couldn't hurt the bigger man. I see this a lot in my sport. I am a power lifter. I weigh around 215 and compete in the 220 class. there are guys that weigh in 220 but the next day when we compete i can tell they are way bigger than me. some come in around 235 but since they weighed in under the limit then can compete and they blow me out of the water. For years i have just dealt with it but now i am thinking if this is fair or should i do the same as they do, get some water pills and go down to 198 then rehydrate back up to my normal weight of 215 and blow the competition at 198 out of the water. I honestly haven't done that because i feel its cheating. what do you guys think?

Evander Holyfield,Joe Louis,Tyson,Dempsey,Jean Marc Mormeck are guys who don't have problem with bigger guys..I don't have problems with bigger guys..If you don't have a chin or the greatest defense,I can see how it'd be unfair and it is when you're trying to fight guys at certain weight classes in my opinion..Also,what do you mean by getting blown out the water??KO'd or just beaten bad??What do you compete in that there is a 220 lb. weight class??Speed is the advantage ya gotta use..

In my opinion fighters should have to weigh in the day of the fight..Try drinking 3 liters of water a day..Water is not something you should ever cut out since if you don't drink enough,your body will hold weight and cause you to have more water weight..I weigh around 200 lbs and for our size,3 liters is good..See where you're at after trying that..Also,if you can't win in a certain weight class,try another one lower if the guys are too big for ya..Size isn't much of an issue to me though..Weight lifters in boxing tend to look bigger but that doesn't mean anything..It's skill that matters..
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (flazi @ Sep 14 2010, 06:14 PM) *
I was thinking about this saturday night as Rios beat the crap out of peterson. When the fight started i noticed how much bigger and fuller Rios was than Peterson. Then their fight night weight was announced. Rios blew up to 151 while Peterson wen to 139. Peterson really had no shot. He couldn't hurt the bigger man. I see this a lot in my sport. I am a power lifter. I weigh around 215 and compete in the 220 class. there are guys that weigh in 220 but the next day when we compete i can tell they are way bigger than me. some come in around 235 but since they weighed in under the limit then can compete and they blow me out of the water. For years i have just dealt with it but now i am thinking if this is fair or should i do the same as they do, get some water pills and go down to 198 then rehydrate back up to my normal weight of 215 and blow the competition at 198 out of the water. I honestly haven't done that because i feel its cheating. what do you guys think?


There is absolutely no reason they should have day before weigh ins. It is totally unfair, like last saturday's fight. It gives the guy who sucked so much weight too much time to rehydrate. Remember what happened to Joey Gamache? This sport is already unsafe, giving a guy that type of advantage makes it that much worse.

I think all weigh ins should be same day as fight for obvious reasons.
alaganza
If the fight is at 140 come in the ring no more than 140. If you have to drain to make weight then stop sandbagging and fight guys your own size at your natural weight. JMO
Nay_Sayer
Same day weigh in and stop with the bullshit.

How in the hell is it a lightweight fight when one guy walks into the ring as a jr middle?
EpTXCHAMP
Personally I like day of the fight weigh INS. Or what USA boxing does for amateur no more than an 8 pound difference. Or modify it for pros and say day after the weigh in there can't be more than an 8 lb difference think you'll see less careers ruined and cowards like clottey will have to start fighting guys there size.
Lil-lightsout
The biggest problem is from area to area everyone has their own rules and regulations, and there is no consistency. So some times things can be pretty fair, and other times some straight up BS goes down in all aspects of this sport. And unfortunately nothing is going to change anytime soon..
flazi
my sport is powerlifting. I can total 1500+ pounds on the three lifts, 600 deadlift, 410 bench, 450+ squat (weak i know) but the guys who are heavier are in the 700's deadlifting and 600's squating. there is nothing more debilitating than watching someone warm up with the weight you max at. Same day weigh ins sounds great. I know in my sport it would be great cause the way it is now i can weigh in at 9 am friday and not compete until saturday or sunday evening.
alaganza
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 14 2010, 08:30 PM) *
The biggest problem is from area to area everyone has their own rules and regulations, and there is no consistency. So some times things can be pretty fair, and other times some straight up BS goes down in all aspects of this sport. And unfortunately nothing is going to change anytime soon..


This is true.
BoxingStill#1
If boxing were to start same day weigh ins today.... We would see NONE of same fighters in their respected divisions tomorrow......
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (flazi @ Sep 14 2010, 09:07 PM) *
my sport is powerlifting. I can total 1500+ pounds on the three lifts, 600 deadlift, 410 bench, 450+ squat (weak i know) but the guys who are heavier are in the 700's deadlifting and 600's squating. there is nothing more debilitating than watching someone warm up with the weight you max at. Same day weigh ins sounds great. I know in my sport it would be great cause the way it is now i can weigh in at 9 am friday and not compete until saturday or sunday evening.


Far from weak man.

My good friend has been into powerlifting for around 20 years now on and off. He said he is doing one more competition and he is done, too much stress on his body as he gets older. Anyway, he weighs around 190lbs. His lifts are approx. 650 DL, 550 squat, and his bench(weakest) around 400. I went to a few of his competitions over the years, crazy how fucking strong people can get lifting weights. Some of those little guys can put up crazy weights, I just don't get it.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ Sep 14 2010, 09:18 PM) *
If boxing were to start same day weigh ins today.... We would see NONE of same fighters in their respected divisions tomorrow......


And that's okay. Then we get a leveled playing field, and people fighting at a safer healthier weight.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (flazi @ Sep 14 2010, 08:07 PM) *
my sport is powerlifting. I can total 1500+ pounds on the three lifts, 600 deadlift, 410 bench, 450+ squat (weak i know) but the guys who are heavier are in the 700's deadlifting and 600's squating. there is nothing more debilitating than watching someone warm up with the weight you max at. Same day weigh ins sounds great. I know in my sport it would be great cause the way it is now i can weigh in at 9 am friday and not compete until saturday or sunday evening.

Oh..I thought you boxed..Well in something like power lifting,weight would be a bigger factor..10 lbs would be a huge differece which is true also in boxing but I think not as big of a difference than in power lifting..In boxing there are more factors involved when it really comes down to it..410 bench is beastly..When I weighed 210 lbs,the most I got to was alittle over 300 lbs benching and I'd curl 60 lbs 15 times with each arm..I stopped lifting like 1.5 years ago though to getting my muscle in boxing condition..It definitely takes a lot of time to get up to putting up those numbers that you do but then it starts to become muscle memory..Have you had any serious injuries??
SmartyBeardo
Same day weigh-ins make too much sense. Like DIV I NCAA football playoffs.

Less weight classes, I might add.
SENTRAL
Same day weigh ins were abolished to stop a fighter dehydrating and being unable to rehydrate in time for the fight.  This was always one of the biggest dangers when concerning brain injuries.  However, we all know that is wrong for a boxer to box at 140 but weigh in at 160 come fight time.  Is it equally as dangerous though?

You have to ask the question - if boxer A weighs 140 but enters the ring at 160 in a junior welterweight bout and boxer B weighs 140 and enters the ring at 142, should not boxer B perhaps consider fighting at 135?  You see what I'm saying?

I personally believe the dehydration issue outweighs the (sometimes) gross discrepancy between the division weight and the actual fighting weight.

The only solution would be to monitor the boxers much more during training to ensure they weren't boiling down at the last minute and then having 24 hours to rehydrate as they do currently. So, they are weighed 7 days before the fight, 3 days before the fight and then on the day of the fight.  This would enable the commissions to safely gauge if a fighter was weighing comfortably enough to get to the limit without last minute dehydration becoming necessary and it should, in most cases, prevent the huge weight difference sometimes seen on fight night. 
Fitz
QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Sep 15 2010, 06:57 PM) *
Same day weigh ins were abolished to stop a fighter dehydrating and being unable to rehydrate in time for the fight.  This was always one of the biggest dangers when concerning brain injuries.  However, we all know that is wrong for a boxer to box at 140 but weigh in at 160 come fight time.  Is it equally as dangerous though?

You have to ask the question - if boxer A weighs 140 but enters the ring at 160 in a junior welterweight bout and boxer B weighs 140 and enters the ring at 142, should not boxer B perhaps consider fighting at 135?  You see what I'm saying?

I personally believe the dehydration issue outweighs the (sometimes) gross discrepancy between the division weight and the actual fighting weight.

The only solution would be to monitor the boxers much more during training to ensure they weren't boiling down at the last minute and then having 24 hours to rehydrate as they do currently. So, they are weighed 7 days before the fight, 3 days before the fight and then on the day of the fight.  This would enable the commissions to safely gauge if a fighter was weighing comfortably enough to get to the limit without last minute dehydration becoming necessary and it should, in most cases, prevent the huge weight difference sometimes seen on fight night. 


I don't agree dehydrating on fight night would be much of an issue if we just had the old divisions and none of these junior and super weight classes. The range to make weight would be higher, so it would be easier to make weight, more guys would probably fight at a more natural weight because they obviously would have a much larger range to make weight, and I seriously don't think fighters would be that dumb to 'severely' drain themselves to make weight on a same day weigh in, with such a large range to make weight.
SENTRAL
Well the old weight classes changes the focus of everthing and there are many reasons for and against reverting to that. My post was based around how things are currently. If, as I expect, the weight divisions arent changed, how and what would you propose as a viable solution.

Now I must get ready for work.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Sep 15 2010, 06:08 AM) *
Well the old weight classes changes the focus of everthing and there are many reasons for and against reverting to that. My post was based around how things are currently. If, as I expect, the weight divisions arent changed, how and what would you propose as a viable solution.

Now I must get ready for work.


Yes they will never go back to the old weight divisions, there's too much money in splitting it all up and then on top of that having their 'regular' champions and their 'cubic zirconia' champions or whatever they call them.

Now as to regards the same day weigh-ins, having read the thread I can see merits in both sides but I'd lean more to the weighing in the same day or at least having some kind of limit. Not sure if I want this more as a fan or for the safety of the fighters. It can't be good dehydrating that much just to make weight and then putting it all back on after the weigh in. Morales one of Fitz's favourites always looked like death warmed up at the weigh-in. always fought with plenty of life in him though laugh.gif
Lil-lightsout
I have a simple solution to all this. EVERY fighter should have their bodyfat tested and there should be a standard of how low they can go. It could be a set standard determined by experts in the medical field at what percent bodyfat is the lowest a fighter can reach to perform safely. We will call it Optimal Fghting Weight Comission.

Example 1- James Toney goes to the OFWC and he weighs 256 pounds. They take his bodyfat and what ever else these experts have today to determine is safest and most optimal weight. So after evaluating him, say they come back and say okay your bodyfat is at "X"% right now. Your lowest weight you can get to is 187 where your percent would be at "X"%. So then Toney would only be allowed to compete in the cruiserweight or heavyweight divisions. No ifs ands or buts.

Example 2- Paul Williams goes to the OFWC and weighs 167 pounds and his bodyfat percent is at "X"%. So at the lowest percent you can go, your weight would be 151 pounds. So the lowest he could fight at would be jr. middleweight or above.

I understand people could STILL get dehydrated, if they did not lose the weight properly. But at least there would be no more fighters starving themselves to get down that one extra division for the weigh in, just so they can balloon up 15 plus pounds come fight night.
Method
No limit on gains, but weigh in same day.


...forfeit purse to your opponent if you show up to the weigh-in and are over.
Snoop
QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Sep 15 2010, 08:57 AM) *
Same day weigh ins were abolished to stop a fighter dehydrating and being unable to rehydrate in time for the fight.  This was always one of the biggest dangers when concerning brain injuries.  However, we all know that is wrong for a boxer to box at 140 but weigh in at 160 come fight time.  Is it equally as dangerous though?

You have to ask the question - if boxer A weighs 140 but enters the ring at 160 in a junior welterweight bout and boxer B weighs 140 and enters the ring at 142, should not boxer B perhaps consider fighting at 135?  You see what I'm saying?

I personally believe the dehydration issue outweighs the (sometimes) gross discrepancy between the division weight and the actual fighting weight.

The only solution would be to monitor the boxers much more during training to ensure they weren't boiling down at the last minute and then having 24 hours to rehydrate as they do currently. So, they are weighed 7 days before the fight, 3 days before the fight and then on the day of the fight.  This would enable the commissions to safely gauge if a fighter was weighing comfortably enough to get to the limit without last minute dehydration becoming necessary and it should, in most cases, prevent the huge weight difference sometimes seen on fight night. 

I disagree. Dehydrating yourself and putting yourself at risk to, as you say, "one of the biggest dangers when concerning brain injuries", should never be an obligation of a fighter, but a choice.
HaydelHammer
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Sep 14 2010, 08:01 PM) *
Same day weigh in and stop with the bullshit.

How in the hell is it a lightweight fight when one guy walks into the ring as a jr middle?


THIS!!!
SENTRAL
QUOTE (Snoop @ Sep 15 2010, 10:28 AM) *
I disagree. Dehydrating yourself and putting yourself at risk to, as you say, "one of the biggest dangers when concerning brain injuries", should never be an obligation of a fighter, but a choice.


Well if you simply quote a bolded part of my post without reading it in the context it was written, then of course, it could be considered disagreeable.  The part you have bolded was simply highlighting the way boxers currently play with their weight.  It wasn't my opinion to disagree with because I believe I clearly stated in the next paragraph exactly where my thoughts lie. 
Snoop
QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Sep 15 2010, 07:13 PM) *
Well if you simply quote a bolded part of my post without reading it in the context it was written, then of course, it could be considered disagreeable.  The part you have bolded was simply highlighting the way boxers currently play with their weight.  It wasn't my opinion to disagree with because I believe I clearly stated in the next paragraph exactly where my thoughts lie. 

No I read your entire post and what I'm reading is that your opinion is that the potential dangers of dehydration is enough to warrant the weight advantage of fighters that choose to take that risk. I still disagree with that.

However, I can still empathize with your point because it is, afterall, within the rules, but your suggestion (stated in the part that I bolded) that a fighter choosing to fight at 140 and come in at 142 should consider going the dehydration route to 135 is what I disagree with. Maybe that's not what you meant to say, but at least from the way I read it, it sounded that way by the way you worded it.

I guess it goes to a further debate on how far rules should regulate the choices of fighters, but in this case, I think it everyone would win out if they just regulated same day weigh-ins (fighters would not risk themselves of dehydration, fighters not choosing to dehydrate would have fair fights, the fans would get to watch fair fights, etc).
SENTRAL
Dehydration leads to changes in the volume of compartments within the
cranium that could put sportsmen and women at risk of brain damage after
head injuries, according to a team of UK researchers.

In adults, the cranium (the part of the skull that encloses the
brain) is a rigid bony vault of fixed size, with a constant volume that
is the product of the volume of the brain, the intracranial
cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) in a compartment known as the subarachnoid
space, and the intra- cranial blood. The brain is suspended within the
sub-arachnoid space, which surrounds it with a protective cushion of
fluid. The brain itself contains fluid- filled cavities known as the
cerebral ventricles, which communicate with the subarachnoid space.

The aim of this pioneering study was to investigate the relationship
between dehydration and changes in the volume of the brain and the
cerebral ventricles in six healthy male amateur rugby union players.

The subjects underwent magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans of the
brain before and after a period of exercise designed to cause
significant dehydration, while samples of blood and urine were taken
before and afterwards to assess the degree of dehydration.. One of the
subjects (control) undertook a further series of MRI scans to enable the
researchers to assess day-to-day fluctuations of brain and ventricular
volume in a normally hydrated healthy person.
They found that the subjects lost between 2.1% and 2.6% of their body
mass from sweating during the exercise. They also found a correlation
between the degree of dehydration and the change in ventricular volume,
with changes in the latter much larger than those seen in the normally
hydrated control subject.

‘Changes in the volume of the brain, the intracranial CSF (especially
the subarachnoid space) and the intracranial blood may influence the
outcome of closed head injuries,’ the researchers explain. ‘After an
impact to the head the brain will travel further within the cranium
before it meets the skull if the subarachnoid space is enlarged than in
the normally hydrated state. Consequently it will accelerate to higher
velocities and this may increase the likelihood of contusion injuries
after blows to the head such as those sustained in boxing, football and
rugby’.

Although the researchers acknowledge that their study was too small
to be definitive, they conclude that dehydration causes changes in the
volume of intra-cranial compartments that may put sportsmen and women at
increased risk of brain damage from contusion injury (bruising) and
internal haemorrhage after head injuries.

‘Some sportsmen and women, eg boxers, rugby players and footballers,
are especially vulnerable to serious head injuries whilst dehydrated.’


The above explains what I'd imagine everybody already knew but I've posted it just to clarify where and why I feel a boiled down dehydrated boxer is at a far greater risk than a hydrated boxer facing somebody 10-15Ibs heavier than him.

I disagree with those advocating same day weigh ins because, unless the boxers are continously monitored in the run up to the weigh in there is no knowing how badly the boxer has dehydrated to make weight. This is why it was scrapped in the first place. Two healthy hydrated fighters, one being much bigger than the other on fight night presents a greater risk than two fighters at the same fighting weight, one who is dehydrated. The current system is abused, Gatti (in the Gamache fight) being a good example, Pac for long periods being another.

So yes, the system is flawed but it is my belief that unless there is a complete overhaul, it is safer today than it was prior to the 24 hour weigh in.
flazi
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 14 2010, 09:23 PM) *
Far from weak man.

My good friend has been into powerlifting for around 20 years now on and off. He said he is doing one more competition and he is done, too much stress on his body as he gets older. Anyway, he weighs around 190lbs. His lifts are approx. 650 DL, 550 squat, and his bench(weakest) around 400. I went to a few of his competitions over the years, crazy how fucking strong people can get lifting weights. Some of those little guys can put up crazy weights, I just don't get it.

Thanks but its not enough. Some of these guys are on steriods and they don't test at some of these events. Yeah the little guys can put up crazy weight cause their range of motion is shorter. Your friend has some good numbers. i wish him luck in his next and last meet. I think my next is also my last. Way too much stress on your joints.
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Sep 14 2010, 09:55 PM) *
Oh..I thought you boxed..Well in something like power lifting,weight would be a bigger factor..10 lbs would be a huge differece which is true also in boxing but I think not as big of a difference than in power lifting..In boxing there are more factors involved when it really comes down to it..410 bench is beastly..When I weighed 210 lbs,the most I got to was alittle over 300 lbs benching and I'd curl 60 lbs 15 times with each arm..I stopped lifting like 1.5 years ago though to getting my muscle in boxing condition..It definitely takes a lot of time to get up to putting up those numbers that you do but then it starts to become muscle memory..Have you had any serious injuries??

I have blown out a knee and have elbow bursitis the normal shoulder strains other than that i am good. the crazy part is that i lift and compete without a belt.
Snoop
QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Sep 15 2010, 08:05 PM) *
Dehydration leads to changes in the volume of compartments within the
cranium that could put sportsmen and women at risk of brain damage after
head injuries, according to a team of UK researchers.

In adults, the cranium (the part of the skull that encloses the
brain) is a rigid bony vault of fixed size, with a constant volume that
is the product of the volume of the brain, the intracranial
cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) in a compartment known as the subarachnoid
space, and the intra- cranial blood. The brain is suspended within the
sub-arachnoid space, which surrounds it with a protective cushion of
fluid. The brain itself contains fluid- filled cavities known as the
cerebral ventricles, which communicate with the subarachnoid space.

The aim of this pioneering study was to investigate the relationship
between dehydration and changes in the volume of the brain and the
cerebral ventricles in six healthy male amateur rugby union players.

The subjects underwent magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans of the
brain before and after a period of exercise designed to cause
significant dehydration, while samples of blood and urine were taken
before and afterwards to assess the degree of dehydration.. One of the
subjects (control) undertook a further series of MRI scans to enable the
researchers to assess day-to-day fluctuations of brain and ventricular
volume in a normally hydrated healthy person.
They found that the subjects lost between 2.1% and 2.6% of their body
mass from sweating during the exercise. They also found a correlation
between the degree of dehydration and the change in ventricular volume,
with changes in the latter much larger than those seen in the normally
hydrated control subject.

‘Changes in the volume of the brain, the intracranial CSF (especially
the subarachnoid space) and the intracranial blood may influence the
outcome of closed head injuries,’ the researchers explain. ‘After an
impact to the head the brain will travel further within the cranium
before it meets the skull if the subarachnoid space is enlarged than in
the normally hydrated state. Consequently it will accelerate to higher
velocities and this may increase the likelihood of contusion injuries
after blows to the head such as those sustained in boxing, football and
rugby’.

Although the researchers acknowledge that their study was too small
to be definitive, they conclude that dehydration causes changes in the
volume of intra-cranial compartments that may put sportsmen and women at
increased risk of brain damage from contusion injury (bruising) and
internal haemorrhage after head injuries.

‘Some sportsmen and women, eg boxers, rugby players and footballers,
are especially vulnerable to serious head injuries whilst dehydrated.’


The above explains what I'd imagine everybody already knew but I've posted it just to clarify where and why I feel a boiled down dehydrated boxer is at a far greater risk than a hydrated boxer facing somebody 10-15Ibs heavier than him.

I disagree with those advocating same day weigh ins because, unless the boxers are continously monitored in the run up to the weigh in there is no knowing how badly the boxer has dehydrated to make weight. This is why it was scrapped in the first place. Two healthy hydrated fighters, one being much bigger than the other on fight night presents a greater risk than two fighters at the same fighting weight, one who is dehydrated. The current system is abused, Gatti (in the Gamache fight) being a good example, Pac for long periods being another.

So yes, the system is flawed but it is my belief that unless there is a complete overhaul, it is safer today than it was prior to the 24 hour weigh in.

Solid argument.

But you don't think that changing to same day weigh-ins would dissaude fighters from dehydrating such large amounts of weight?
SENTRAL
Essentially I do agree that same day weigh ins would prevent the gross discrepancy between the supposed fighting weight and the actual in ring weight.  Would it dissuade fighters from dehydrating such large amounts of weight?  No, I don't think so but then I am only going on what the evidence suggested prior to the current system being introduced. 

I guess my point is, unless monitoring is strictly adhered to say, 14, 7 and 3 days before the official weigh in, we will have to face up to the consequences of why same day weigh ins were abolished in the first place.

However, I feel everyone agrees the current system is being abused and needs an overhaul, but I would oppose simply switching back to the same day weigh in without something along the lines I posted above being included.
Snoop
QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Sep 15 2010, 09:47 PM) *
Essentially I do agree that same day weigh ins would prevent the gross discrepancy between the supposed fighting weight and the actual in ring weight.  Would it dissuade fighters from dehydrating such large amounts of weight?  No, I don't think so but then I am only going on what the evidence suggested prior to the current system being introduced. 

I guess my point is, unless monitoring is strictly adhered to say, 14, 7 and 3 days before the official weigh in, we will have to face up to the consequences of why same day weigh ins were abolished in the first place.

However, I feel everyone agrees the current system is being abused and needs an overhaul, but I would oppose simply switching back to the same day weigh in without something along the lines I posted above being included.

I see your argument. I guess I would think the same day weigh-ins would dissaude fighters from dehydrating large amounts of weight since their disadvantage from dehydrating wouldn't warrant their advantage in size (I see your point now), but I guess it would also take a few fights for people to start learning that. Seems like the approach to training needs to be changed, which sounds like a change of mindset, not of rules.
SmartyBeardo
The arguments against same day weigh-ins, while attempting to make the case for protecting boxers from the danger of cranial injuries resulting from dehydration, essentially defend the out of control levels of dehydration that have developed as a result of the status quo.

Brandon Rios would never have fought in the 135 division the other night if same day weigh-ins were the rule. It just would have made no sense. Peterson would have beaten his ass. The suggestion that Peterson should consider dehydrating to even lower weight classes himself in order to accomplish the type of advantage that Rios did is puzzling at best. So the real competition is not in the ring at all (whether in training or on fight night) but rather it is who can dehydrate himself most acutely and rehydrate most efficiently. There are studies that suggest that extreme weight loss and gain in short windows is extremely risky for your health.

What the argument against same day weigh-ins infers is boxers and their trainers are morons. Most might not be geniuses, but they all are focused on victory and long-term success. It simply makes no sense that fighters would consciously dehydrate to a dangerous level when it would not be to their advantage and would seriously endanger their health.

Certainly, there would be exceptions, but there are plenty of those right now. The idea behind weight classes is to create as fair a level of competition as possible. The current weigh-in process creates a far less fair and healthy competitive environment than same day weigh-ins would.
Fitz
QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Sep 16 2010, 06:47 AM) *
Essentially I do agree that same day weigh ins would prevent the gross discrepancy between the supposed fighting weight and the actual in ring weight.  Would it dissuade fighters from dehydrating such large amounts of weight?  No, I don't think so but then I am only going on what the evidence suggested prior to the current system being introduced. 

I guess my point is, unless monitoring is strictly adhered to say, 14, 7 and 3 days before the official weigh in, we will have to face up to the consequences of why same day weigh ins were abolished in the first place.

However, I feel everyone agrees the current system is being abused and needs an overhaul, but I would oppose simply switching back to the same day weigh in without something along the lines I posted above being included.


If fighters and trainers are smart like I hope they are and actually learn from past things, then they would know NEVER to really dehydrate yourself on same day weigh ins. They also shouldn't factor in being the smaller man because they didn't dehydrate as much as their opponent did. Because Pacquiao-DLH is a fight everybody should have learnt off, and being bigger but dehydrating more isn't an advantage, and Pacquiao demonstrated that.
Bropho
I agree with JonnyBlaze, it doesn't matter how big you are or how small you are bro

ay I only weigh 180 and i made heaps of big cunts piss

if you know how to fight then you know how to fight and thats all it comes down to!
jlupi
I don't agree dehydrating on fight night would be much of an issue>>>>>>

fighting dehydrated lowers the amount of cerebral spinal fluid that cushions the brain.

I agree something should be done though


<<<Because Pacquiao-DLH is a fight everybody should have learnt off, and being bigger but dehydrating more isn't an advantage, and Pacquiao demonstrated that.>>>>

DLH was older and over did it. Fighters throughout history have fought dehydrated and done well (was jake lematta not dehdrating?) It does however put the fighter at greater risk.
upinya
QUOTE (flazi @ Sep 14 2010, 06:14 PM) *
I was thinking about this saturday night as Rios beat the crap out of peterson. When the fight started i noticed how much bigger and fuller Rios was than Peterson. Then their fight night weight was announced. Rios blew up to 151 while Peterson wen to 139. Peterson really had no shot. He couldn't hurt the bigger man. I see this a lot in my sport. I am a power lifter. I weigh around 215 and compete in the 220 class. there are guys that weigh in 220 but the next day when we compete i can tell they are way bigger than me. some come in around 235 but since they weighed in under the limit then can compete and they blow me out of the water. For years i have just dealt with it but now i am thinking if this is fair or should i do the same as they do, get some water pills and go down to 198 then rehydrate back up to my normal weight of 215 and blow the competition at 198 out of the water. I honestly haven't done that because i feel its cheating. what do you guys think?

its a sport yes they can come in any weight they can come i.instead weight drained catweights like pac likes should be outlawed. my freind if you cant compete with the BIGDOGS THEN STAY ON THE PORH EASY AS THAT
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Bropho @ Sep 16 2010, 11:23 AM) *
I agree with JonnyBlaze, it doesn't matter how big you are or how small you are bro

ay I only weigh 180 and i made heaps of big cunts piss

if you know how to fight then you know how to fight and thats all it comes down to!


Come on guys... this guy nailed it perfectly. All this weight stuff is nonsense and means nothing. Shit... we should just throw out all weight classes and just make any fights possible. I mean... "if you know how to fight then you know how to fight and that's all it comes down to". I can tell this guy really knows his stuff.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 17 2010, 05:00 PM) *
Come on guys... this guy nailed it perfectly. All this weight stuff is nonsense and means nothing. Shit... we should just throw out all weight classes and just make any fights possible. I mean... "if you know how to fight then you know how to fight and that's all it comes down to". I can tell this guy really knows his stuff.



laugh.gif You're so right. Can't wait to see Pac against the Klits coz that little guy really knows how to fight!!

And I don't know why Floyd has been ducking the brothers either. C'mon Floyd has mad skills!! Somebody make those fights!!!!
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 17 2010, 06:48 PM) *
laugh.gif You're so right. Can't wait to see Pac against the Klits coz that little guy really knows how to fight!!

And I don't know why Floyd has been ducking the brothers either. C'mon Floyd has mad skills!! Somebody make those fights!!!!


Exactly man! What do we have... like 159 weight divisions in boxing? And don't forget then we got all these damn catchweight fights. Yeah....... weight means nothing, lol. You just need to know how to fight! laugh.gif

The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 17 2010, 11:06 PM) *
Exactly man! What do we have... like 159 weight divisions in boxing? And don't forget then we got all these damn catchweight fights. Yeah....... weight means nothing, lol. You just need to know how to fight! laugh.gif


Glad we agree (as usual).

Man I don't understand what all these weight classes are about. Weight classes are for pussies!!! All you need to know is how to fight! Once you got that down bro, you can beat anybody. I mean I'm sure we've all seen Bruce Lee movies. Now that guy could fight! Little Bruce could take any sucka down due to his insane karate skills!!!

Look at Chuck Norris. Chuck that hairy ole kanute must've outweighed him by 20 pounds but Chuck didn't stand chance against Lil Bruce and his slick moves. Weight classes? Abolish them and then we really can see who the p4p best is.

Manny, Floyd stop hiding behind this weight division crap and step up and fight the Klits, you fucken cowards!!
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 17 2010, 11:32 PM) *
Glad we agree (as usual).

Man I don't understand what all these weight classes are about. Weight classes are for pussies!!! All you need to know is how to fight! Once you got that down bro, you can beat anybody. I mean I'm sure we've all seen Bruce Lee movies. Now that guy could fight! Little Bruce could take any sucka down due to his insane karate skills!!!

Look at Chuck Norris. Chuck that hairy ole kanute must've outweighed him by 20 pounds but Chuck didn't stand chance against Lil Bruce and his slick moves. Weight classes? Abolish them and then we really can see who the p4p best is.

Manny, Floyd stop hiding behind this weight division crap and step up and fight the Klits, you fucken cowards!!


Dude... we just hit the jackpot! We can become partners in promoting, imagine all the super fights we can make? There will be no more pussy weight excuses. All you need to know is how to fight, and any fight can be made.

Bruce Lee would be P4P if he was still alive, I remember seeing him beat like 100's of dudes all at the same time and he was a little dude. Just proves our theory...all you need to know is how to do is fight.

Floyd and Manny should not be considered P4Pers till they fight and beat the Klits. I agree with you man. Great minds think alike.

The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 17 2010, 11:49 PM) *
Dude... we just hit the jackpot! We can become partners in promoting, imagine all the super fights we can make? There will be no more pussy weight excuses. All you need to know is how to fight, and any fight can be made.

Bruce Lee would be P4P if he was still alive, I remember seeing him beat like 100's of dudes all at the same time and he was a little dude. Just proves our theory...all you need to know is how to do is fight.

Floyd and Manny should not be considered P4Pers till they fight and beat the Klits. I agree with you man. Great minds think alike.


This would work best if we had a 2 man tag. Floyd and Manny (the unlikely alliance) against the Klit sisters. Look if Rey Mysterio can beat all those big guys in the WWE then there is no excuse for Manny and Floyd!!

Rey was HW champion of the world!! Rey is showing both those chickens (but not cats and dogs or sushi rolls) how it is done!!!!!!!!!!! But then again, Rey knows how to fight!!
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