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EAlbian
2010-- ------------------------------Early 90's

Bradley-----------------------------Taylor
Alexander--------------------------Chavez
Kahn-------------------------------Haugan
Miadana----------------------------Camacho
Ortiz ------------------------------Pazienza
Judah------------------------------R. Mayweather


Guys from the 90's had way more experience and the 140lbs division is young comparitivly. Most of the fighters from the early 90's graduated from 135 lbs and i think the same is true of the 140 lbs divison of today growing into a strong 147 lbs division of tomorrow. what do you guys think
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Sep 28 2010, 10:59 PM) *
2010--------------------------------Early 90's

Bradley-----------------------------Taylor
Alexander--------------------------Chavez
Kahn-------------------------------Haugan
Miadana----------------------------Camacho
Ortiz ------------------------------Pazienza
Judah------------------------------R. Mayweather


Guys from the 90's had way more experience and the 140lbs division is young comparitivly. Most of the fighters from the early 90's graduated from 135 lbs and i think the same is true of the 140 lbs divison of today growing into a strong 147 lbs division of tomorrow. what do you guys think


1-Taylor
2-Chavez
3-Bradley
4-Judah
5-Alexander
6-Mayweather
7-Khan
8-Maidana
9-Ortiz
10-Camacho
11-Pazienza
12-Haugen

Some of the guys today have some proven to do to truly see where they rate. This is just my take in order how they rank at their absolute best.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 28 2010, 11:11 PM) *
Tszyu > All of them at 140


Vince Phillips would argue otherwise.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 28 2010, 11:53 PM) *
lol, nice trolling.


Haha. Man that was an amazing fight that night. I was rooting for Vince that night cause of all his troubles. I remember Roy announcing and rooting for his buddy that night.

Kostya learned from that night and improved and he was a TRUE gentleman, I always admired that dude. Him and Whitaker at 140 would have been a special fight.
EAlbian
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 28 2010, 10:11 PM) *
Tszyu > All of them at 140


I'll take chavez and taylor over tszyu any day and whitaker for that matter too. Floyd Mayweather would have also taken tszyu apart @140 and i would have loved to see a rematch of tszyu v judah.
lloyd mayflower
Iv never understood the logic of the Tsyzu Judah rematch school of thought. Thats just a little bit less absurd than asking for Hatton v Pac 2
EAlbian
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 28 2010, 10:44 PM) *
1-Taylor
2-Chavez
3-Bradley
4-Judah
5-Alexander
6-Mayweather
7-Khan
8-Maidana
9-Ortiz
10-Camacho
11-Pazienza
12-Haugen

Some of the guys today have some proven to do to truly see where they rate. This is just my take in order how they rank at their absolute best.
]

I think you're giving the guys of today a little too much credit, these guys fought eachother at their bests, camacho 10? he was a 3 division world champion by the time he got to 140. Tsyzu went 12 with roger in 95' where as he was stopped by jcc twice before 90'. we'll see how it all ends up but i think you are underestimatng the fighters of old.

how about the 2000-06' fighters

Floyd Mayweather
Miguel cotto
Ricky Hatton
Kostya Tsyzu
Chop Chop
Sharmba Mitchell
Fitz
I was actually going to make a thread on second tier or good but not great 140 fighters. 140 has had some solid names over the years.
EAlbian
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 28 2010, 11:36 PM) *
Tszyu LOVED slick fighters, his timing was underrated, but he loved slicksters and southpaw wasn't an issue for him. I'm not saying Tszyu was better or greater career wise than all of those guys, but at 140, he is ranked higher than all of them.
Also on to Mayweather, Mayweather never accomplished much at 140, all he did was beat Cotto's sparring partner, N'Dou and Gatti. Though I would lean to Mayweather in a fantasy fight, I wouldn't be so hasty either. Knowing how cocky Mayweather is, he gives Kostya Tszyu the ultimate respect, which he doesn't do often. I remember an interview a while ago when Mayweather was trashing these fighters and then said something a long the lines of Tszyu being one of the only fighters he respected. I also read some where that Tszyu was one of Mayweather's favourite fighters to watch. Mayweather respected him which is something Mayweather doesn't do much.
Though my comment was more that Tszyu is a better career 140 fighter than all of them. Plus he is easy to write off in fantasy matches, because a lot of the times, white Europeans often look one dimensional and robotic, so I think the slick guy will always look more impressive. But which is why Tszyu loved slicksters, his timing was underrated and why he did so well against them.



I guess i just don't see who Tsyzu beat besides judah and a way past it roger mayweather and jcc. all the other fighters on his resume are ok at best. mayweather never fought n'dou; he fought gatti, busselles, and chop chop. he was chasing big fights(delahoya) and everything at 140 during that time was premature or not worth any money. mayweathers work after the 140lbs leads me to believe he smokes any of the fighters at 140 at that time
Fitz
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Sep 29 2010, 02:45 PM) *
I guess i just don't see who Tsyzu beat besides judah and a way past it roger mayweather and jcc. all the other fighters on his resume are ok at best. mayweather never fought n'dou; he fought gatti, busselles, and chop chop. he was chasing big fights(delahoya) and everything at 140 during that time was premature or not worth any money. mayweathers work after the 140lbs leads me to believe he smokes any of the fighters at 140 at that time


My bad, he fought N'Dou at 135. But once again I am usually always in the minority as I like to look outside the box and don't focus too much on resume when a fighter has dominated a division and cleaned it out for so long. Bernard Hopkins resume wasn't impressive either (if you are looking just for names) when he had just beat Trinidad. I look at their career as a whole when they stick at one division and clean out, beating mandatories and the best the division has to offer. I'm thinking for a fight now like Marquez-Katsidis where Marquez is fighting his mandatory. Sure it won't look impressive if you just look at that win, but when you see they do it time and time again, on a regular basis and fight everyone they put in front of them. I think that's discipline and dedication to stick in your division and build your legacy and the way boxing is run now, it's why boxing is going down hill and MMA is on the rise.
With boxing, people seem to purely focus on looking for a familiar name or as many familiar names to determine if they are good or not. I agree, that it is the case at times. But fighters cleaning out, dominating a division for years is underrated. Plus, some of the less known guys have more hunger than some of the other guys, because they get their shots through hard work, a lot of the familiar names get it on reputation.
Not saying his resume is better than everyone elses, but I don't right someone off. As long as someone has stayed in their division, been king of that division and beat everyone they have to offer, well I think that's underrated. Sometimes it can be much easier sitting back, picking and choosing familiar names (not to get confused with good fighters, because a lot of the times, once were good fighters are still fighting on a reputation of being good which isn't the case). I don't know, like I said I am in the minority and I look at it differently. I think fighters sometimes get overlooked at times just because they don't have the who's who of boxing on their resume.
I have always been a fan of fighters sticking to a weight class and cleaning out until they can no longer make weight. Hopkins, Tszyu, Hagler etc. I think it's also why boxing is going down hill, people focus too much on losses and is why we have so much picking and choosing.
Katsidis-Marquez is exactly why I love fighters sticking at a weight class, because you do get some hungry fighters who are given a chance.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 28 2010, 10:11 PM) *
Tszyu > All of them at 140

hahaha..I was thinking the same thing..How did he leave out Tszyu??
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Sep 29 2010, 12:36 AM) *
]

I think you're giving the guys of today a little too much credit, these guys fought eachother at their bests, camacho 10? he was a 3 division world champion by the time he got to 140. Tsyzu went 12 with roger in 95' where as he was stopped by jcc twice before 90'. we'll see how it all ends up but i think you are underestimatng the fighters of old.

how about the 2000-06' fighters

Floyd Mayweather
Miguel cotto
Ricky Hatton
Kostya Tsyzu
Chop Chop
Sharmba Mitchell


Yeah Camacho was awesome pre-Rosario. I was going off of his lack luster fights in the early 90's. But to be fair I should have used a Camacho at his best also. So yes I agree with you he should definitely be higher. Honestly though, I do not remember exactly when he went to 140 from lightweight. When I placed him I was going off his fights with say Baltozar and Haugen.

I remember watching Mayweather-Tsyzu, man I would have bet the house before hand Roger was getting KO'd in that one. Chalk that up to inexperience on Kostya maybe?

Now you added some more goodies, I will make a new list for ya and see what you think. I will do my best to be unbiased cause always was a huge Taylor fan. I think this list is pretty good.

1-Whitaker
2-Floyd
3-Taylor
4-Chavez
5-Tsyzu
6-Cotto
7-Camacho
8-Bradley
9-Judah
10-Roger Mayweather
11-Alexander
12-Hatton
13-Khan
14-Maidana
15-Ortiz
16-Sharmba
17-Chop Chop
18-Pazienza
19-Haugen

BigG
Whitaker only had one fight but he is the best to me.

I'll also take medlrick Taylor and Chavez over any of the current top 140.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (BigG @ Sep 29 2010, 05:47 AM) *
Whitaker only had one fight but he is the best to me.

I'll also take medlrick Taylor and Chavez over any of the current top 140.


Well using the one fight scenario Manny would have to rate somewhere for smoking the undispiuted (and undefeated in that division) 140 pound champ Ricky Hatton.
Fitz
I don't understand the thread entirely and is why I got confused. If he is talking about fantasy match ups between them or rating their 140 careers (based on the work they done there?). Then like Ollie said, if Whitaker can qualify, then so can Pacquiao.
Which is why I said Tszyu>All, because he is one of the best 140 fighters there, but that is different than fantasy match ups at 140.
BigG
I'm picking Whitaker to beat anyone at 140.

On accomplishments, its between Tszyu and Chavez (since the early 90's)
kidbazooka1
Chavez beats them all at 140lb and Taylor from the first Chavez fight takes them all aswell.

Tszyu would be up there but if you could stand with him you could discourage him ala Phillips fight so i wouldnt't say he'll run through all them like Chavez.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Sep 29 2010, 09:17 AM) *
Chavez beats them all at 140lb and Taylor from the first Chavez fight takes them all aswell.

Tszyu would be up there but if you could stand with him you could discourage him ala Phillips fight so i wouldnt't say he'll run through all them like Chavez.


love this comment... chavez and taylor where the cream of the division in the last 20 years in my opinion... tszyu coming in 3rd... would love to add whitaker and lil floyd to the list but they didnt stay in the division long enough in my opinion... if they had maybe they change the landscape of this top 3 a little... same thing with pac... these guys didnt stay in the division long enough to make a mark but only one or so fights... in my opinion...
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 29 2010, 02:44 AM) *
1-Taylor
2-Chavez
3-Bradley
4-Judah
5-Alexander
6-Mayweather
7-Khan
8-Maidana
9-Ortiz
10-Camacho
11-Pazienza
12-Haugen

Some of the guys today have some proven to do to truly see where they rate. This is just my take in order how they rank at their absolute best.




lmao I cant believe you seriously put judah above camacho and pazienza. Lol you must be on some serious crack playa
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Oct 1 2010, 06:32 AM) *
lmao I cant believe you seriously put judah above camacho and pazienza. Lol you must be on some serious crack playa


LilLightsOut knows his onions but yes like you I am a little confused at the amount of man-love he has for Judah when compiling this (otherwise) solid list.

I also thnk he has Camacho a little too low.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Oct 1 2010, 07:32 AM) *
lmao I cant believe you seriously put judah above camacho and pazienza. Lol you must be on some serious crack playa


Okay, I revised my list after this first one. Please check my second one. AND the reason I put Camacho so low the first time was I saw some of his fights back in the day at 140. They were far from impressive, and I tell you a Judah would have beaten him then. Now another poster reminded me pre Rosario Camacho how good he was, and it was only fair I rate Camacho from his best(not some of his lackluster wins at 140), so that is why I then changed my opinion and rated him higher. I mean I do remember watching fucking Haugen beating him at 140. Far from impressive.

Pazienza was garbage, no skill, just all heart. Judah would have fucked him up.

Where is your list? This shit is all subjective and we have different opinions, and I personally seen tons of ALL these fighters fights.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Oct 1 2010, 07:45 AM) *
LilLightsOut knows his onions but yes like you I am a little confused at the amount of man-love he has for Judah when compiling this (otherwise) solid list.

I also thnk he has Camacho a little too low.


Man I here ya, I am just going off there best they were ever at. At one point, Judah looked amazing and special, though it was only for a short period of time. I am just saying THAT Judah could and would have beat a lot of dudes. Of course this is just my opinion. I got zero problems with others takes, we got a ton of great fighters we are comparing and a lot of bias comes in and who really knows how things would play out?
JLUVBABY
i have to admit pre rosario camacho was a beast.... something bout the wat edwin rasario hurt him he never forgot... lol... he was never the same after that fight even though he won it.. its like he got on his bicycle and never got off...



camacho wasnt lying when he said what he said in his interview... lol...

kidbazooka1
I agree Camacho was a different fighter after that fight but Camacho from the Limon fight was a great fighter.

Rosario was one of the hardest hitting lightweights of all time. Camacho had an iron chin not even Trinidad was able to hurt him the way Rosario did.

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