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MRstaze
Everyone says Mayweather is ducking great opponents. Who are they apart from Magarito and Cotto?
(Not that im a Mayweather fan.. just curious to know)
Snoop
QUOTE (MRstaze @ Sep 29 2010, 05:45 PM) *
Everyone says Mayweather is ducking great opponents. Who are they apart from Magarito and Cotto?
(Not that im a Mayweather fan.. just curious to know)

Off the top of my head, I would say Cotto, Margarito, and Williams. Not saying that these guys were that great and truthfully I would have picked Floyd to win each one of those fights, but there is a huge difference between predicting how a fight plays out and how a fight actually plays out. It wouldn't have been so frustrating if he was busy fighting other good fighters, but instead he was fighting guys like Brusseles and Corley or retiring for 2 years. I mean that's fine and all, but you can't do all that then turn around and call yourself the greatest fighter that ever lived. Just doesn't work that way.
Big Slim Sweet
Mayweather ducked Mosley for years & Margarito shamelessly. He should have fought Cotto when they were both undefeated but I'm not sure he ducked him. I think that went both ways. And I wouldn't say he ducked Williams anymore than anybody else did.
Lil-lightsout
Pac. dntknw.gif

Winky Wright... after he called him out.
ROLL DEEP
Whether he ducked them, they refused to fight him, or whatever....the above mentioned are all fights that didn't happen. For whatever reason that may be, it will harm Floyds legacy.
sweetscientist1
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Sep 29 2010, 03:30 PM) *
Mayweather ducked Mosley for years & Margarito shamelessly. He should have fought Cotto when they were both undefeated but I'm not sure he ducked him. I think that went both ways. And I wouldn't say he ducked Williams anymore than anybody else did.

Dude please. do your homework. You can go to youtube and find Floyd calling out mosely in 99 & 03! Do the homework yo. Also Nobody in either camp even initiated any negotiations for a Cotto vs Mayweather fight. When? who? And as far as Williams as an opponent, that makes absolutely no sense at all. When it comes to his boxing resume, not to mention his lack of PPV; WHO THE FUCK IS PAUL WILLIAMS? Not only is he grossly lacking in skill to fight on the PBF level but he fights like he's 5'5. Williams is an accomplished fighter for a guy his age and competition level, but that's about it. He's so deficient in the ring experience area for somebody like Floyd that I'm shocked that people really have that much interest in Paulie fighting Floyd. Sergio gave Paul the fight of his life and really did kick Pauls ass. Also Cintron was starting to come over on him with the right hand and this guy is 6ft 2in tall? Also, against in old Winky Wright who hadn't fought in 2 years, Paulie threw 118 punches in the 3rd round and connnected 18x's. When PBF fought JLC in fight I: In the 10th, Floyd threw 25 punches and connected 18x's with a torn rotator cuff and a fractured right hand. There's just way too much of a disparity between skill sets and I would be shocked at all knowing Floyd and his myopia if he even had an opinion on this dude Williams. I know Floyd has already stated that he wants a piece of Sergio. But Williams isn't the type of fighter that anybody can really get excited about on that level because outside of an old semi- retired Winky Wright? Who has he beat? Carlos Quintana was it. And that was after Carlos beat the livin shit outta him. Carlos came to the 2nd fight somewhere else mentally and got KO'd. Still I'm very unimpressed with Paulie's track record but he does have good fight skill. But, is he Mayweather ready? Not in this lifetime!
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE (sweetscientist1 @ Sep 29 2010, 04:31 PM) *
Dude please. do your homework. You can go to youtube and find Floyd calling out mosely in 99 & 03! Do the homework yo. Also Nobody in either camp even initiated any negotiations for a Cotto vs Mayweather fight. When? who? And as far as Williams as an opponent, that makes absolutely no sense at all. When it comes to his boxing resume, not to mention his lack of PPV; WHO THE FUCK IS PAUL WILLIAMS? Not only is he grossly lacking in skill to fight on the PBF level but he fights like he's 5'5. Williams is an accomplished fighter for a guy his age and competition level, but that's about it. He's so deficient in the ring experience area for somebody like Floyd that I'm shocked that people really have that much interest in Paulie fighting Floyd. Sergio gave Paul the fight of his life and really did kick Pauls ass. Also Cintron was starting to come over on him with the right hand and this guy is 6ft 2in tall? Also, against in old Winky Wright who hadn't fought in 2 years, Paulie threw 118 punches in the 3rd round and connnected 18x's. When PBF fought JLC in fight I: In the 10th, Floyd threw 25 punches and connected 18x's with a torn rotator cuff and a fractured right hand. There's just way too much of a disparity between skill sets and I would be shocked at all knowing Floyd and his myopia if he even had an opinion on this dude Williams. I know Floyd has already stated that he wants a piece of Sergio. But Williams isn't the type of fighter that anybody can really get excited about on that level because outside of an old semi- retired Winky Wright? Who has he beat? Carlos Quintana was it. And that was after Carlos beat the livin shit outta him. Carlos came to the 2nd fight somewhere else mentally and got KO'd. Still I'm very unimpressed with Paulie's track record but he does have good fight skill. But, is he Mayweather ready? Not in this lifetime!



Blah, blah....and I mean that as respectfully as possible. I just get fed up with all the 'this would happen', 'Floyd is too good', etc, etc.

Whatever happened, whoever you think would win, whatever you think would happen, hasn't. Bottom line. It hasn't.


Floyd hasn't fought the best of his era. Whether you think he would've beat them or not, Floyd hasn't stepped into the ring with the other upper level fighters consistantly.


Now that's fine for the average fighter - but the self proclaimed GOAT? No where near good enough.
JLUVBABY
i wouldnt say floyd ducked fights as much as i would say he allowed money fights to get in the way of the fan friendly fights that we could have had.... to say he ducked any of the fighters i think is nonsense... he hasnt cared about his legacy for a long time... his mind is strictly on the dollar fights and in my opinion the money fights for him or possibly some of his easier fights.... i used to think cotto was the man to push him to the limits but in retrospect even when they where both undefeated im not sure thats the case looking back at things... any way just my opinion...
gravytrain
I disagree with saying he ducked Margarito and Cotto for the fact they're both TR fighters. There's no telling whether or not those negotiations would have went south and in all honesty I think he would have only ended up fighting one of the two fighters. Mayweather would have definitely wanted the lion's share of the purse after having been in a fight that set the PPV record as well as a high guaranteed amount, Arum would just match Margarito and Cotto against each other before dealing with Mayweather and GBP.

In my opinion he ducked PWill, I can't really say he ducked the others. I'd say it's more of wanting the most money possible rather than simply avoiding the fighters. However, being a bitch that doesn't care about your legacy is a different discussion altogether lol.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Sep 29 2010, 05:45 PM) *
I disagree with saying he ducked Margarito and Cotto for the fact they're both TR fighters. There's no telling whether or not those negotiations would have went south and in all honesty I think he would have only ended up fighting one of the two fighters. Mayweather would have definitely wanted the lion's share of the purse after having been in a fight that set the PPV record as well as a high guaranteed amount, Arum would just match Margarito and Cotto against each other before dealing with Mayweather and GBP.

In my opinion he ducked PWill, I can't really say he ducked the others. I'd say it's more of wanting the most money possible rather than simply avoiding the fighters. However, being a bitch that doesn't care about your legacy is a different discussion altogether lol.


i wouldnt say he ducked pwill.. in my opinion we as fight fans know pwill would give mayweather fits with his height and reach but nobody outside of us, the hardcore fans no pwill.... thats not the kind of fight he's gonna make... im sure if the pwill fight was worth 40 million to mayweather he'd have risked that zero a long time ago... truth is that may be worth for example, 10 million... we'd have a better chance at seeing may fight cotto in peurto rico for 30 million than pwill for 10... pwill is the better fight but he's not packing seats nor bringing the dollar signs...
jvo1800
Personally i dont think Floyd ducked any of them honestly. First, he called out Shane years ago but that steroid thing came up and i think that kinda tarnished that situation a lil bit, second i think that Cotto fight woulda happened if he wouldnt have loss to Margarito but he started gettin his ass whooped after that fight too so that was a done deal, and third i dont think Margarito was big enough in the sport yet when they were talkin about Floyd fighting him so i think these are all situational issues not Floyd ducking anybody. People gotta realize that this isnt the 60's, 70's, and the 80's anymore Floyd is a business man first, then a boxer, if it doesnt make business sense first then Floyd aint gonna jump on it. Like he said b4 belts dont do nothin but collect dust when its all over with so he's tryna make sure that he is set financially for the rest of his life and make sure his kids have it easy growing up.
Fitz
QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 09:57 AM) *
Personally i dont think Floyd ducked any of them honestly. First, he called out Shane years ago but that steroid thing came up and i think that kinda tarnished that situation a lil bit


No it didn't. First off, apparently the first time he called Mosley out was in 1999 when they were 2 divisions apart and Mosley was fighting DLH, the next time was when Mosley fought Vargas 2 times in 2006 and then said he is taking the year off to spend with family and get his teeth fixed. Mayweather challenged him after Mosley said this (no different to Mayweather saying he isn't fighting any more in 2010 and why the Pacquiao fight isn't happening, apparently) and Mosley said, at the start of 2007 and Mayweather said no. The steroid thing doesn't fit in the time frame and didn't tarnish anything.

QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 09:57 AM) *
second i think that Cotto fight woulda happened if he wouldnt have loss to Margarito but he started gettin his ass whooped after that fight too so that was a done deal


Why do you think that? Mayweather was 'retired' at the time Cotto and Margarito were fighting, and he came back to fight the big dangerous Marquez in his come back fight. Though never stopped him fighting Judah after him losing, so who knows.

QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 09:57 AM) *
and third i dont think Margarito was big enough in the sport yet when they were talkin about Floyd fighting him so i think these are all situational issues not Floyd ducking anybody.


He was going to get $8 million (biggest pay day to date) for fighting Margarito.

QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 09:57 AM) *
People gotta realize that this isnt the 60's, 70's, and the 80's anymore Floyd is a business man first, then a boxer, if it doesnt make business sense first then Floyd aint gonna jump on it.


Oscar who was a bigger business man than Floyd will ever be managed to fight, and give most boxing fans good match ups, fought just about everybody. Seeing the fights DLH took and him being the bigger businessman by a mile never stopped him did it. Oscar the bigger star than Mayweather managed to find a right balance.

QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 09:57 AM) *
Like he said b4 belts dont do nothin but collect dust when its all over with so he's tryna make sure that he is set financially for the rest of his life and make sure his kids have it easy growing up.


Nothing like making sure you are set financially for the future of yourself and kids like spending money on jewellery, cars, houses and then having reports on how he owes the IRS and has spent most of his money.
gravytrain
QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 29 2010, 07:57 PM) *
Personally i dont think Floyd ducked any of them honestly. First, he called out Shane years ago but that steroid thing came up and i think that kinda tarnished that situation a lil bit, second i think that Cotto fight woulda happened if he wouldnt have loss to Margarito but he started gettin his ass whooped after that fight too so that was a done deal, and third i dont think Margarito was big enough in the sport yet when they were talkin about Floyd fighting him so i think these are all situational issues not Floyd ducking anybody. People gotta realize that this isnt the 60's, 70's, and the 80's anymore Floyd is a business man first, then a boxer, if it doesnt make business sense first then Floyd aint gonna jump on it. Like he said b4 belts dont do nothin but collect dust when its all over with so he's tryna make sure that he is set financially for the rest of his life and make sure his kids have it easy growing up.



Sugar Ray Robinson was a businessman, one of the best boxers/businessmen to ever grace the sport. And you know what? He fought LaMotta when everyone else was too scared to fight him and fought him numerous times because other fighters were so scared of those two they could only fight each other, he continued to be a great fighter after losing a step, and would fight anyone anytime.

You guys have got to have 47 chromosones if you think boxing became a business in the PPV era and everyone before then was just some fool fighting for peanuts.

QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Sep 29 2010, 06:51 PM) *
i wouldnt say he ducked pwill.. in my opinion we as fight fans know pwill would give mayweather fits with his height and reach but nobody outside of us, the hardcore fans no pwill.... thats not the kind of fight he's gonna make... im sure if the pwill fight was worth 40 million to mayweather he'd have risked that zero a long time ago... truth is that may be worth for example, 10 million... we'd have a better chance at seeing may fight cotto in peurto rico for 30 million than pwill for 10... pwill is the better fight but he's not packing seats nor bringing the dollar signs...



It'd have been reasonable for them to have fought pre-DLH, I just think Mayweather and everyone else thought he was too high risk low reward. If he beat PWill I can guarantee no one would be doubting him though.
jvo1800
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 29 2010, 08:21 PM) *
No it didn't. First off, apparently the first time he called Mosley out was in 1999 when they were 2 divisions apart and Mosley was fighting DLH, the next time was when Mosley fought Vargas 2 times in 2006 and then said he is taking the year off to spend with family and get his teeth fixed. Mayweather challenged him after Mosley said this (no different to Mayweather saying he isn't fighting any more in 2010 and why the Pacquiao fight isn't happening, apparently) and Mosley said, at the start of 2007 and Mayweather said no. The steroid thing doesn't fit in the time frame and didn't tarnish anything.



Why do you think that? Mayweather was 'retired' at the time Cotto and Margarito were fighting, and he came back to fight the big dangerous Marquez in his come back fight. Though never stopped him fighting Judah after him losing, so who knows.



He was going to get $8 million (biggest pay day to date) for fighting Margarito.



Oscar who was a bigger business man than Floyd will ever be managed to fight, and give most boxing fans good match ups, fought just about everybody. Seeing the fights DLH took and him being the bigger businessman by a mile never stopped him did it. Oscar the bigger star than Mayweather managed to find a right balance.



Nothing like making sure you are set financially for the future of yourself and kids like spending money on jewellery, cars, houses and then having reports on how he owes the IRS and has spent most of his money.

Ok we can eliminate Shane cause he just got done whooping his ass and i dont wanna hear nothin about Shane was old cause he just beat Margarito and everybody thought that was the greatest thing in boxing. Regardless if he was retired or not that Cotto fight woulda happened if he wouldnt start gettin his ass whooped after Margarito beat him, so that wouldnt have made any sense to fight Cotto. Yea the Margarito fight was there but that wasnt on Floyd's radar at the time because Margarito really hadnt done shit to that point to get the attention of Floyd, plus Floyd was already makin $10 mil plus at that time so he woulda been going backwards. Lastly Oscar didnt have to promote himself or sell his image like Floyd did he has always been a mega star in the sport without having to do much of nothing and he was mexican/american so he had double the fan base. Oscar was gettin a big payday no matter who he fought and when he did fight the elite he got his his ass whooped (Bernard, Floyd, Shane twice, etc.) Yea Floyd buys jewelry, cars,etc. but earns it and can afford to do so and make sure his kids are good.
Lil-lightsout
I love PBF fans. laugh.gif
Fitz
QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 10:49 AM) *
Ok we can eliminate Shane cause he just got done whooping his ass and i dont wanna hear nothin about Shane was old cause he just beat Margarito and everybody thought that was the greatest thing in boxing.


Nope, we can eliminate Shane because you didn't know how to respond back to me.

QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 10:49 AM) *
Regardless if he was retired or not that Cotto fight woulda happened if he wouldnt start gettin his ass whooped after Margarito beat him, so that wouldnt have made any sense to fight Cotto.


And you know that how? Why did it make sense to fight Judah after he lost?

QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 10:49 AM) *
Yea the Margarito fight was there but that wasnt on Floyd's radar at the time because Margarito really hadnt done shit to that point to get the attention of Floyd, plus Floyd was already makin $10 mil plus at that time so he woulda been going backwards.


How was he making $10 million when I TOLD you it was his career high pay day at the time. He was offered that after Judah and he did not make $10 million fighting Judah, so he was going forward, lol.

QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 10:49 AM) *
Lastly Oscar didnt have to promote himself or sell his image like Floyd did he has always been a mega star in the sport without having to do much of nothing and he was mexican/american so he had double the fan base. Oscar was gettin a big payday no matter who he fought and when he did fight the elite he got his his ass whooped (Bernard, Floyd, Shane twice, etc.) Yea Floyd buys jewelry, cars,etc. but earns it and can afford to do so and make sure his kids are good.


What does that have to do with anything? Does it matter that DLH lost? We are arguing taking tough fights, not winning them. Don't change the subject. DLH was a bigger businessman and still found time to fight:
  • Whitaker
  • Mosley x2
  • Trinidad
  • Hopkins
  • Vargas
  • Mayweather
  • Quartey


Once again, we are arguing about 'ducking' fighters, not winning. Learn to read dude. I already said that he owed the IRS money and reports he had money problems, lol.

Not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Warlord
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 29 2010, 08:20 PM) *
You type relatively well, while gargling nutsac.

laugh.gif
jvo1800
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 29 2010, 09:18 PM) *
Nope, we can eliminate Shane because you didn't know how to respond back to me.



And you know that how? Why did it make sense to fight Judah after he lost?



How was he making $10 million when I TOLD you it was his career high pay day at the time. He was offered that after Judah and he did not make $10 million fighting Judah, so he was going forward, lol.



What does that have to do with anything? Does it matter that DLH lost? We are arguing taking tough fights, not winning them. Don't change the subject. DLH was a bigger businessman and still found time to fight:
  • Whitaker
  • Mosley x2
  • Trinidad
  • Hopkins
  • Vargas
  • Mayweather
  • Quartey


Once again, we are arguing about 'ducking' fighters, not winning. Learn to read dude. I already said that he owed the IRS money and reports he had money problems, lol.

Not the sharpest tool in the shed.

regardless if the timing was off about the steroids with Shane, Floyd been called out Shane years ago, but he just beat his ass so thats irrelevant now anyway, and 8 mil was not his biggest payday then son do ur homework and stop watching espn. The Judah fight was just a more attractive fight regardless if he lost or not and the difference with Judah and Cotto was Judah only loss that one fight to Baldomir and Cotto was gettin his ass whooped back to back so it was pointless to fight him. I can actually read very well i just decided to add that extra stuff about DLH cause i wanted to. So at the end of the day who did Floyd duck???????????? He beat Shane/Cotto was shot after Margarito(pointless fight)/Margarito wasnt big enough attraction.
jvo1800
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 29 2010, 09:20 PM) *
You type relatively well, while gargling nutsac.

that was lame as hell, get some new jokes RETARD
Fitz
QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 12:22 PM) *
8 mil was not his biggest payday then son do ur homework and stop watching espn.


April 25 2006

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=2420382

QUOTE
Pound-for-pound king Floyd Mayweather Jr. rejected promoter Bob Arum's $8 million offer to fight welterweight titlist Antonio Margarito, and he instead exercised a provision in his contract to buy Arum out and become a promotional free agent, Arum told ESPN.com on Monday.


On that date, these were Mayweather's opponents to date.

Zab Judah
Sharmba Mitchell
Arturo Gatti
Henry Bruseles
DeMarcus Corley
Phillip N'dou
Victoriano Sosa
Jose Luis Castillo
Jose Luis Castillo

Which one of those fights did he make $10 million?

Game, Set and Match Fitz.

Now don't you ever talk to me about boxing ever again.
Warlord
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 29 2010, 10:40 PM) *
April 25 2006

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=2420382



On that date, these were Mayweather's opponents to date.

Zab Judah
Sharmba Mitchell
Arturo Gatti
Henry Bruseles
DeMarcus Corley
Phillip N'dou
Victoriano Sosa
Jose Luis Castillo
Jose Luis Castillo

Which one of those fights did he make $10 million?

Game, Set and Match Fitz.

Now don't you ever talk to me about boxing ever again.

laugh.gif You guys are on fire today.
King Eugene
I've been here long enough to know that no matter how big of a Floyd Mayweather fan you are there is no need to try to justify most of his career moves. Besides..........he doesn't his damn self. Just let it go.
Snoop
QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 29 2010, 11:57 PM) *
People gotta realize that this isnt the 60's, 70's, and the 80's anymore Floyd is a business man first, then a boxer, if it doesnt make business sense first then Floyd aint gonna jump on it. Like he said b4 belts dont do nothin but collect dust when its all over with so he's tryna make sure that he is set financially for the rest of his life and make sure his kids have it easy growing up.

The opponents Floyd chose made sound financial sense (low risk, high reward). Unfortunately that formula doesn't work for legacy or greatness.
Snoop
Honestly, I think most of Floyd's recent career rests on which opponent was the tougher challenge at the time: Judah or Margarito. After that, when you dissect the timeline (Hype did a good job of that), you can actually make a reasonable argument for why he chose his opponents post-Judah. So I guess his career is kind of debatable, but my biggest gripe is the constant inactivity. I don't understand why he keeps taking 1-2yr layoffs, then shouting from the sidelines how he's still the best. It just gets kind of annoying after a while.
jvo1800
QUOTE (Snoop @ Sep 30 2010, 12:32 AM) *
The opponents Floyd chose made sound financial sense (low risk, high reward). Unfortunately that formula doesn't work for legacy or greatness.

I agree but i dont think Floyd is fully into the sport for legacy in the first place, like he always says he's into the check cashing business. His legacy may be questioned when its all over with, but nobody can ever deny his skill and talent regardless of who he did or didnt fight.
Snoop
QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 05:55 AM) *
I agree but i dont think Floyd is fully into the sport for legacy in the first place, like he always says he's into the check cashing business. His legacy may be questioned when its all over with, but nobody can ever deny his skill and talent regardless of who he did or didnt fight.

Well I think that's what we're debating here. People will deny his skill and talent because they were never tested against the division's best. You can look great against a sparring partner yet like complete shit against a top-tier opponent. Not saying Mayweather would look like shit against the aforementioned names, but he's basically leaving it as a question to be pondered, not answered. And while he has said he's in the "check cashing business", he also said he was greater than Sugar Ray Robinson. I think that's where most people, including me, take issue with him.
Snoop
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 30 2010, 05:15 AM) *
I have defended PBF's independence in an industry that so often sucks its talent dry like the spider to the fly, often. The fact that he controls his own career frustrates many because they feel he should sacrifice his health and future for their amusement. I respect him for his cavalier rebelliousness. But the other side of that coin is the fact that his boxing legacy does not hold up versus Sugar Ray Leonard let alone SSR.

You can defend his skills and talent all day and night for the next 365 days while simultaneously rationalizing his choice of opponents and it will not change the simple fact that his career up until now does not stand the P4P test, let alone the measure of GOAT.

Yup.
gravytrain
QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 12:55 AM) *
I agree but i dont think Floyd is fully into the sport for legacy in the first place, like he always says he's into the check cashing business. His legacy may be questioned when its all over with, but nobody can ever deny his skill and talent regardless of who he did or didnt fight.


If he doesn't fight Pacquiao or any other tough fight he wont have any legacy, his skills will be questioned, and his paydays will plummet. Skill and talent mean nothing if you don't flaunt it, nobody would know about any athlete if they never truly proved themselves.

thehype
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Sep 30 2010, 01:49 AM) *
If he doesn't fight Pacquiao or any other tough fight he wont have any legacy, his skills will be questioned, and his paydays will plummet. Skill and talent mean nothing if you don't flaunt it, nobody would know about any athlete if they never truly proved themselves.


laugh.gif
thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 29 2010, 08:21 PM) *
Oscar who was a bigger business man than Floyd will ever be managed to fight, and give most boxing fans good match ups, fought just about everybody. Seeing the fights DLH took and him being the bigger businessman by a mile never stopped him did it. Oscar the bigger star than Mayweather managed to find a right balance.


Ah, ah, ahhhhhh....He didn't fight Winky Wright, Vernon Forrest or Kostya Tsyzu...and he damn sure wouldn't give Whitaker or Quartey a rematch.

I'm just sayin.

laugh.gif

I was actually tempted to comment on some other things, but I don't have time to go there right now.

laugh.gif

Just had to get a quick dig in on Oscar.
Run and Gun Game Calls
Floyd isnt held to the same standard as other current fighters, nor should he be. In his own words he believes himself to be the greatest of all time, even greater in fact than Ray Robinson.

Therefor he is held to the Ray Robinson standard.

Same as Lebron James and Kobe Bryant are held to the Jordan standard.

Has he ducked fights? Yes

Did Oscar,? Yes


Difference is Oscar never proclaimed himself the greatest fighter of all time
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 29 2010, 10:49 PM) *
Yea Floyd buys jewelry, cars,etc. but earns it and can afford to do so and make sure his "kids are good".


Are you talking about the same floyd that beat the hell out of his kids mother, kicked her while she lay on the floor while the kids watched in terror, then threatened to beat the hell out of them if they went for help? The same floyd that chased after then when they ran to the guard gate for help? Are we talking about the same guy here, that wants to make sure his family is "taken care of"?
gravytrain
QUOTE (thehype @ Sep 30 2010, 02:34 AM) *
laugh.gif


Mayweather is already viewed negatively inside and outside of the boxing world. He'll never be considered a great fighter if he coasts into retirement, never get credit for his talent, and I really doubt his PPV numbers will remain strong if he laces up the gloves against chumps in the future. No real fight in 2011? He'll lose his mainstream appeal due to Arum's dismantling of his character and boxing fans don't want to pay for Mayweather/Ortiz.

Fitz
QUOTE (King Eugene @ Sep 30 2010, 02:23 PM) *
I've been here long enough to know that no matter how big of a Floyd Mayweather fan you are there is no need to [b]try to justify most of his career moves. Besides..........he doesn't his damn self. Just let it go.[/b]


I think that sums it up pretty well. Very well put.

QUOTE (thehype @ Sep 30 2010, 04:40 PM) *
Ah, ah, ahhhhhh....He didn't fight Winky Wright, Vernon Forrest or Kostya Tsyzu...and he damn sure wouldn't give Whitaker or Quartey a rematch.

I'm just sayin.

laugh.gif

I was actually tempted to comment on some other things, but I don't have time to go there right now.

laugh.gif

Just had to get a quick dig in on Oscar.


Haha. There will always be fighters that fighters didn't fight.

Oscar De La Hoya has one of the best resumes (I'm not talking about wins) fighting high level fighters on a regular basis and that is fact. Other than Holyfield, not many people in modern times has a resume like these guys. They have fought more top guys than anyone. But you are right, he didn't fight those guys, but you can pick a couple of guys for just about everyone. There will always be some guys that someone could have fought but didn't.

I am not sure what point you are making, because I think the point I made was obvious. What I was trying to say was this.

  • DLH was a bigger star and buisnessman than Floyd ever was - True
  • List of top level fighters DLH fought is significantly longer than Mayweather's - True
  • Mayweather's list of top level fighters Mayweather didn't fight is longer than DLH's - True


The guy (what ever his name was) I was arguing with, used Floyd 'being a business man and make money' is why Floyd picks and chooses. I said that DLH was an even bigger business man and it was never an excuse for him. The records speak for themselves.
ViperSniper
Williams-Margarito
Margarito-Cintron
Cotto-Quintana
Mosley-Collazo
Berto-Quintana
Collazo-Berto
Cotto-Clottey
Margarito-Clottey
Cotto-Mosley
Mosley-Margarito
Margarito-Cotto

That was a very impressively deep era of Welterweights that all managed to somehow step in the ring against each other to prove who is the best! With such a big list I'm sorry if I left anyone out..
Fitz
QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Sep 30 2010, 08:38 PM) *
Williams-Margarito
Margarito-Cintron
Cotto-Quintana
Mosley-Collazo
Berto-Quintana
Collazo-Berto
Cotto-Clottey
Margarito-Clottey
Cotto-Mosley
Mosley-Margarito
Margarito-Cotto

That was a very impressively deep era of Welterweights that all managed to somehow step in the ring against each other to prove who is the best! With such a big list I'm sorry if I left anyone out..


Hahaha. Excellent post.
sweetscientist1
QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Sep 29 2010, 05:15 PM) *
Blah, blah....and I mean that as respectfully as possible. I just get fed up with all the 'this would happen', 'Floyd is too good', etc, etc.

Whatever happened, whoever you think would win, whatever you think would happen, hasn't. Bottom line. It hasn't.


Floyd hasn't fought the best of his era. Whether you think he would've beat them or not, Floyd hasn't stepped into the ring with the other upper level fighters consistantly.


Now that's fine for the average fighter - but the self proclaimed GOAT? No where near good enough.

You gotta understand man, I've been hearing this stuff since he became a welter weight. After whooping ass on cats like Hernandez and Corrales he moved up in weight and guys started saying he was running from guys. At that time the money was with guys like Naseem Hamed or Paul Spadafora. That's where Floyd was gonna get paid in the lower weight classes. And about the time he beat JLC both times, Jose was 13 pounds heavier than Floyd and Floyd handled him. At that time the buz was he was running from Ndou and Chop Chop Corley. Both of which he beat. But by the time he beat them he was running from Zab Judah and Shane Mosely. Than after kicking those 2 asses now he's running from Pacquaio, Cotto and Margarito. So I just assume when he taps all the forementioned ass you'll have someone else that he's runnung from.
Run and Gun Game Calls
Actually alot of people feel JLC beat Floyd in their first fight, so floyd didnt exactly handle him. I would have enjoyed the spadafora fight just because i think it would have been a good fight. I never heard floyd was ducking ndou? The zab Judah fight was kind of a favor to judah. You forget Judah had just dont the funky chicken dance when Kosta Tszyu ko'd him.

Floyds best moment in the ring to me was the Corrales fight. I though Corrales would beat Floyd because of his length. Floyd fought a fantastic fight.

As far as his next fight goes, it will be a tough opponent, and might be the first loss on his record. The Justice system can be a bitch.
sweetscientist1
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Sep 30 2010, 01:31 PM) *
Actually alot of people feel JLC beat Floyd in their first fight, so floyd didnt exactly handle him. I would have enjoyed the spadafora fight just because i think it would have been a good fight. I never heard floyd was ducking ndou? The zab Judah fight was kind of a favor to judah. You forget Judah had just dont the funky chicken dance when Kosta Tszyu ko'd him.

Floyds best moment in the ring to me was the Corrales fight. I though Corrales would beat Floyd because of his length. Floyd fought a fantastic fight.

As far as his next fight goes, it will be a tough opponent, and might be the first loss on his record. The Justice system can be a bitch.

Yeah I heard a lot of talk about ducking Ndou and Corley.Lots! And in Vegas where GG Torneys nationwide are king, the naysayers had Judah over Mayweather since they were both amateurs. Judah in NYC and Money in Grand Rapids & Detroit. JLC didn't win the 1st fight. He was fighting a wounded Money and might have won 5 rounds. I scored it 8 to 4 Money. JLC stalked him all nite but made marginal contact outside of 2 big shots in the whole fight. Other than that he was the aggressor who got popped all night long. That's what I saw and what the judges saw. If he lost that fight I would be the 1st one to give JLC his props but even though money was wounded with injuries he still took care of business. Who cares his personal troubles. That's not what I pay to see. If you need a role model for your kids try being a better parent!
sweetscientist1
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 29 2010, 10:40 PM) *
April 25 2006

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=2420382



On that date, these were Mayweather's opponents to date.

Zab Judah
Sharmba Mitchell
Arturo Gatti
Henry Bruseles
DeMarcus Corley
Phillip N'dou
Victoriano Sosa
Jose Luis Castillo
Jose Luis Castillo

Which one of those fights did he make $10 million?

Game, Set and Match Fitz.

Now don't you ever talk to me about boxing ever again.

Understand Floyd didn't take that fight because before the offer was made after Floyd and Arum were on the worst of terms. And, Floyd wanted to get the hell away from Top Rank (Do you hear me, Manny?) at any and all cost. I believe it cost him the 750k purse from the 2nd JLC fight + a 300k check from Al Heymon. Jeff Mayweather stated that when Floyd won the 2nd JLC fight that Arum was so pissed off that he put his soft lil hand through the drywall in the dressing room of Castillo and Arum stated," I can't beieve they gave taht lil shit the decision"! So this is where Floyd and Arums relationship parted ways because the next conversation that the 2 had the end result was mutual FU's.
sweetscientist1
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 29 2010, 10:40 PM) *
April 25 2006

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=2420382



On that date, these were Mayweather's opponents to date.

Zab Judah
Sharmba Mitchell
Arturo Gatti
Henry Bruseles
DeMarcus Corley
Phillip N'dou
Victoriano Sosa
Jose Luis Castillo
Jose Luis Castillo

Which one of those fights did he make $10 million?

Game, Set and Match Fitz.

Now don't you ever talk to me about boxing ever again.

Understand Floyd didn't take that fight because before the offer was made after Floyd and Arum were on the worst of terms. And, Floyd wanted to get the hell away from Top Rank (Do you hear me, Manny?) at any and all cost. I believe it cost him the 750k purse from the 2nd JLC fight + a 300k check from Al Heymon. Jeff Mayweather stated that when Floyd won the 2nd JLC fight that Arum was so pissed off that he put his soft lil hand through the drywall in the dressing room of Castillo and Arum stated," I can't beieve they gave taht lil shit the decision"! So this is where Floyd and Arums relationship parted ways because the next conversation that the 2 had the end result was mutual FU's.
Fitz
QUOTE (sweetscientist1 @ Oct 1 2010, 02:53 AM) *
At that time the buz was he was running from Ndou and Chop Chop Corley.


LOL. Are you seriously trying to pass this off. People thought he was ducking N'Dou and Corley? Really? Seriously? Oh boy.....

QUOTE (sweetscientist1 @ Oct 1 2010, 02:53 AM) *
But by the time he beat them he was running from Zab Judah


After Judah lost to Baldomir, who was saying Floyd was running for Zab? I recall there was a popular video on ESPN that had Kenny blasting Floyd for taking the fight. Certainly didn't have the aura around that fight that Zab was a feared from Mayweather. It was quite the opposite. That fight had more of a feeling of 'why?'

QUOTE (sweetscientist1 @ Oct 1 2010, 02:53 AM) *
Than after kicking those 2 asses now he's running from Pacquaio, Cotto and Margarito. So I just assume when he taps all the forementioned ass you'll have someone else that he's runnung from.


Apparently he has been running from Margarito since 2005-2006, not after he beat Mosley, lol.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 10:49 AM) *
Lastly Oscar didnt have to promote himself or sell his image like Floyd did he has always been a mega star in the sport without having to do much of nothing


Yeah except win a Olympic Gold medal which is something Floyd FAILED to do. See when you win a gold medal in boxing & are American & the only one to do so that Olympics that instantly makes you marketable to the American boxing public. Combine that with "good looks" & a humble attitude & you are onto a winner.

QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 10:49 AM) *
Oscar was gettin a big payday no matter who he fought


Because he was a Olympic Gold medallist & by the time he was getting the really big paydays he had proven to be a active fighter who fought the best competition available.

QUOTE (jvo1800 @ Sep 30 2010, 10:49 AM) *
when he did fight the elite he got his his ass whooped (Bernard, Floyd, Shane twice, etc.)


Yes but he did fight the elite & that is the major difference between the two.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Sep 30 2010, 05:03 PM) *
Are you talking about the same floyd that beat the hell out of his kids mother, kicked her while she lay on the floor while the kids watched in terror, then threatened to beat the hell out of them if they went for help? The same floyd that chased after then when they ran to the guard gate for help? Are we talking about the same guy here, that wants to make sure his family is "taken care of"?


Well I would say he did take care of his family then. he took care of his mouthy woman & showed his kids that daddys the boss. TCOB
Fitz
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Oct 1 2010, 09:20 AM) *
Yeah except win a Olympic Gold medal which is something Floyd FAILED to do. See when you win a gold medal in boxing & are American & the only one to do so that Olympics that instantly makes you marketable to the American boxing public. Combine that with "good looks" & a humble attitude & you are onto a winner.



Because he was a Olympic Gold medallist & by the time he was getting the really big paydays he had proven to be a active fighter who fought the best competition available.



Yes but he did fight the elite & that is the major difference between the two.


Spot on Stevenski. The whole point was that DLH being bigger fought elite world fighters on a more regular basis. The excuses Floyd is using for not fighting them did not apply to DLH when if anything, DLH had more reason to apply those, but he didn't and he tested himself despite coming up short.
sweetscientist1
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 30 2010, 05:09 PM) *
LOL. Are you seriously trying to pass this off. People thought he was ducking N'Dou and Corley? Really? Seriously? Oh boy.....



After Judah lost to Baldomir, who was saying Floyd was running for Zab? I recall there was a popular video on ESPN that had Kenny blasting Floyd for taking the fight. Certainly didn't have the aura around that fight that Zab was a feared from Mayweather. It was quite the opposite. That fight had more of a feeling of 'why?'



Apparently he has been running from Margarito since 2005-2006, not after he beat Mosley, lol.

No I'm not passing this off at all. Here in Vegas the buz among hatas such as your yourself was that Vivian Harris ( even Floyd Sr. mentioned it) and Ndou as well as Chop Chop according to the media were supposed to be stiff outings for Floyd until he capped their sorry asses and now you tell me it never happend and they never insinuated these things. You gotta be a Pactard. Nobodyelse is that uninformed. So when you check history and see how ass-backwards your assesments are it even scares you! Just like Floyd was done when he was gonna meet Shane. Than he capped Shane and now Shane is old and done. The hatas of Floyd are very weak with no agrument! You can say a lot of negative shit about this guy but none of it pertains to boxing! Don't confuse issues.
sweetscientist1
QUOTE (sweetscientist1 @ Sep 30 2010, 07:05 PM) *
No I'm not passing this off at all. Here in Vegas the buz among hatas such as your yourself was that Vivian Harris ( even Floyd Sr. mentioned it) and Ndou as well as Chop Chop according to the media were supposed to be stiff outings for Floyd until he capped their sorry asses and now you tell me it never happend and they never insinuated these things. You gotta be a Pactard. Nobodyelse is that uninformed. So when you check history and see how ass-backwards your assesments are it even scares you! Just like Floyd was done when he was gonna meet Shane. Than he capped Shane and now Shane is old and done. The hatas of Floyd are very weak with no agrument! You can say a lot of negative shit about this guy but none of it pertains to boxing! Don't confuse issues.

You can listen to Brian Kenny on ESPN or you can take your sorry ass to the gym and put on the gloves. That would give you the obvious understanding of the sport that you're missing. I would guess you've never trained or been to a prize fight so there's no real foundation to make any skills assesment when it comes to boxing . This is understood, however, it might be in your best interest to actually study the sport. Hands on. It'll definitely give you a new vision when you're uhhh watching on TV. OK Sparky! Good Luck!
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (sweetscientist1 @ Oct 1 2010, 10:05 AM) *
No I'm not passing this off at all. Here in Vegas the buz among hatas such as your yourself was that Vivian Harris ( even Floyd Sr. mentioned it) and Ndou as well as Chop Chop according to the media were supposed to be stiff outings for Floyd until he capped their sorry asses and now you tell me it never happend and they never insinuated these things. You gotta be a Pactard. Nobodyelse is that uninformed. So when you check history and see how ass-backwards your assesments are it even scares you! Just like Floyd was done when he was gonna meet Shane. Than he capped Shane and now Shane is old and done. The hatas of Floyd are very weak with no agrument! You can say a lot of negative shit about this guy but none of it pertains to boxing! Don't confuse issues.


I don't know of anyone that thought Ndou or Corley would be stiff outings for Floyd. I could be wrong of course but any clear thinking student of the game could see Floyd winning those pretty easily. As for Harris he was a never will be if I ever saw one.

QUOTE (sweetscientist1 @ Oct 1 2010, 10:05 AM) *
Just like Floyd was done when he was gonna meet Shane. Than he capped Shane and now Shane is old and done.


The only people that picked Shane to win were people living on hope & the prayer of a big shot landing. They got it 1/2 right as Shane had Floyd on toast in the 2nd round but failed to finish what he started.

QUOTE (sweetscientist1 @ Oct 1 2010, 10:05 AM) *
The hatas of Floyd are very weak with no agrument! You can say a lot of negative shit about this guy but none of it pertains to boxing! Don't confuse issues.


Actually a lot is pertinant to boxing. There have been a lot of big matchups Floyd has not been able to make. The common denominator is Floyd so therefore...................

QUOTE (sweetscientist1 @ Oct 1 2010, 10:09 AM) *
You can listen to Brian Kenny on ESPN or you can take your sorry ass to the gym and put on the gloves. That would give you the obvious understanding of the sport that you're missing. I would guess you've never trained or been to a prize fight so there's no real foundation to make any skills assesment when it comes to boxing . This is understood, however, it might be in your best interest to actually study the sport. Hands on. It'll definitely give you a new vision when you're uhhh watching on TV. OK Sparky! Good Luck!


Hmmm. Fitz has shown evidence that he does indeed train at a gym & I know he has been to prize fights. A few seconds using the search function would alleviate your need to look like a uninformed moron. For a sweet scientist you seem to lack some basic intelligence. Good luck with that search function boyo.
Lil-lightsout
I swear Floyd huggers are so damn delusional. They clearly are not true fans. Even when proven wrong and stupid, they bring up other nonsense. It is pointless debating with someone like that.

sweetscientist1
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 30 2010, 07:26 PM) *
I don't know of anyone that thought Ndou or Corley would be stiff outings for Floyd. I could be wrong of course but any clear thinking student of the game could see Floyd winning those pretty easily. As for Harris he was a never will be if I ever saw one.



The only people that picked Shane to win were people living on hope & the prayer of a big shot landing. They got it 1/2 right as Shane had Floyd on toast in the 2nd round but failed to finish what he started.



Actually a lot is pertinant to boxing. There have been a lot of big matchups Floyd has not been able to make. The common denominator is Floyd so therefore...................



Hmmm. Fitz has shown evidence that he does indeed train at a gym & I know he has been to prize fights. A few seconds using the search function would alleviate your need to look like a uninformed moron. For a sweet scientist you seem to lack some basic intelligence. Good luck with that search function boyo.

I didn't know Floyd made matchups. i thought that's what Heymon and Ellerbe wer for or Arum back in the day. But no Floyd's a matchmaker?
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