Guys sweetscientist is just a troll that is getting off by keeping you guys going.

He can say what he wants, but again in the words of bert sugar, he is ducking, or avoiding the fight with manny pacquio. Not because he fears him, but because his whole legacy is based on not having lost yet. In the relm of all time greats his resume just doesnt stack up, and if he loses the 0 then he has nothing to really hang his hat on. As far as being the GOAT that is.

So scientist you say he hasnt ducked anyone, Bert sugar says he has, and ill take his word over yours any day of the week. Sorry troll

Fuck Bert Sugar.. who is he God?

You do that my man. and remind yourself of the great stiff jab that Bert has. But, than again smoking cigars and flapping yo gunms is a lot easier to do than lacing them up. Don't believe me, ask Bert?

So because you got your ass kicked once sparring in a gym, your more of an expert than bert sugar???? Nice buddy, be proud of your extensive resume.

By the way facts r facts, floyd avoided the fight.

but since you have been in boxing for 50 years, and have inside information coming from all promoters, trainers, and fighters. and you spent 50 years building up this network of inside information, we will just disregard bert sugar and listen to you.

lol god i love trolls, sounds like the white buffalo all over again

Zab just came off a fucking loss to Baldomir, so you say it "wasn't a bad bought"??? Are you fucking serious? So the P4P king fights Zab AFTER a loss, and you are trying to justify this fight? Yeah... makes perfect sense.

I saw Pac's fight with Agapito Sanchez also. So you say Pac"got his ass thoroughly kicked" by him. Man all I remember is seeing Sanchez foul Pac over and over the whole fight. Agapito fought the dirtiest foul filled fight I have ever seen.

HA! I just figured out sweetscientist's whole ruse. I can't believe you and I fell for it. Ho ho ho man are we gullible.

sweetscientist is obviously Johnny Taco, owner of Johnny Taco's gym. This whole time he was working up the courage to advertise his gym. He keeps on telling people that only by boxing can we truly become knowledgable about the sport so that they join his gym.

Lets see...I mentioned Jordan so I had to be talking about basketball? I was using the quote as a reference to boxing (jordan was talking to roy jones when he said that) You just keep finding ways to sound like a jackass.

You cats really need to hire Manny Steward for a year before trying to talk boxing, or you could just sit outside of Mayweather's gym and yell "Floydie" when he shows up. He wont pay you any mind or sign an autograph for you though.

I honestly didn't have a problem with the Zab fight. I mean since Zab lost to Baldomir, it only made sense for Floyd to fight Baldy, which he did afterward. The only other guy out there as an option was Margarito, which is why I've been saying a lot of Floyd's recent career hinges on whether people thought Zab or Margarito was the tougher challenge (and apparently the Margarito fight didn't happen as fault of Arum?)

Either way, I'd still have to say Zab was the tougher of the two. He legitimately won the undisputed WW title from the linear champion and I think most would agree that the Baldomir loss was really a result of Zab underestimating his opponent. The Judah that showed up against Floyd would have beaten Baldomir and IMO still gave Floyd his toughest fight to date. After the Zab fight, Floyd made career decisions that everyone was more or less okay with at the time (Baldomir, DLH, and Hatton); it just somehow strangely resulted in him not fighting a lot of the other big names in the division.

IMO the only solution would have been for him to fight more often or not take these ridiculous retirements, which is really the only criticism I have in Floyd's recent career choices.

I respect your opinion. And I do agree that Zab that fought Floyd that night was a tough fight, BUT by principle cause he lost his previous fight, that fight should have never taken place. He should have fought a different opponent.

And Zab's only significant win(at WW) was against Spinks in the rematch, and we all know how shitty Judah's stint at welterweight has been. Just saying.

Let's not forget that by the time he fought Floyd Zab had already racked up THREE losses, the last coming his previous fight. By that time most people with a shred of common sense had worked out that Zab was not going to cut it at the very elite level, he'd come up short too many times already.

That's what I was thinking.


Although a slippery customer, his previous losses showed that he was beatable and he had looked like dog shit in fighting and was prone to not training 100%.

Then he should have fought Baldomir right? I mean who did you honestly believe was the tougher challenge: Baldomir or Judah? I'm going to go out on the limb here and say Judah just underestimated Baldomir and that the Judah that showed up against Floyd would have wiped the floor with Baldomir. Maybe I'm making excuses, but try to seriously argue otherwise. And besides, Floyd DID fight Baldomir afterward so it's really pointless to argue which one was the tougher fight.

The only other guy out there was Margarito, which again is why I ask, Judah or Margarito? And apparently, according to D-Marv, the Marg fight wasn't being made because of Arum, not Floyd? Either way, I say the criticisms of Floyd's WW resume rest on that choice. Judah or Margarito?


Zab's resume has been pretty shitty, but let's look at it at the time the Mayweather fight was being proposed. True, Judah only had one significant win, but it was THE BEST win you could have had in the division. I mean Zab had won the WW Championship and if Floyd didn't fight him, then he's ducking Zab right?


I'm not sure how AT THAT TIME you can say Zab wasn't going to cut it at the elite level when he LEGITIMATELY won the Undisputed WW Championship. I mean in hindsight it's pretty easy to see, but at the time people were seeing the Judah/Mayweather fight as pretty damn legit. I'm amazed at how fast people forget things.

Remember, the Judah and Mayweather fight was planned immediately after Judah KO'd Spinks, with Mayweather taking a first time WW tune-up fight against Mitchell and Judah taking an "easy" fight against Baldomir. Nobody expected Judah to be a complete dumbass and blow the Baldomir fight (Anyone who said they did predict that outcome, I'd LOVE to see the proof).

Just glancing at Floyd's run at WW, it's easy to see the holes in his resume (don't get me wrong, they're there), but when you look back at the details, it's kind of just how things played out. I mean people didn't have a problem with him fighting Baldomir (as sucky as he was, he was the legit champ), didn't have a problem with him moving up to 154 to challenge DLH, and people were pretty damn excited when he took on Hatton at 147. The other guys just kinda got lost in the process.

Again, the only solution I see would have been if Floyd fought more frequently, and/or if not "retiring" after the Hatton fight, which are both legitimate arguments, but IMO really the only legit ones out there.

Be careful Snoop...you're walking a thin line between making sense and defending Floyd Mayweather.

No not really Snoop. After his loss to Kostya you could say OK fair enough he got caught by a big punch against a great fighter. I'll give him that one. Then he has a loss to Spinks (who I thought got a fucken gift against Mayorga) and not to mention he even suffered a flash knockdown against the feather fisted crackhead.

OK so now that's 2 strikes against him. So he comes back and redeems himself with an impressive win against a Spinks whom had exhausted himself with his ring walk .

So here we can say young Zab has got his career back on track, then all he has do is beat the journeyman Baldomir before moving on to the biggest fight of his career. There's some motivation right there, right? wrong! He goes out and loses (and got hurt in the fight) and just about blows his payday against Floyd.

Put the sum total together and it's easy to assume that:

A) He hasn't got a great chin.
Lacks focus and motivation
C) Has come up short 3 times in title shots, and only one of them was against a great fighter.
D) Possibly needs a better corner to get him on track.

Fair play to him he came out and gave Floyd a tough fight for the first 4 rounds but I would've been amazed, just about Buster Douglas/Mike Tyson amazed if he had beaten Floyd that night, his pedigree was already there to see.

So who should Floyd have fought after Judah lost to Baldomir? Baldomir right? Well he did so even though everything you say about Zab may be true, the same question remains:

Who would have been a better opponent at the time? Judah or Margarito?

It's cool of you think Margarito would have been the tougher challenge, just realize that you're saying that if you're calling the Judah fight a farce and be ready to defend that position.

I also think you're really underrating Judah's win over Spinks. As weird as it sounds, Spinks, being one of the very few fighters to legitimately unify titles in ANY weight class, was THE man to beat at welterweight. Therefore Judah was legitimately THE man after Spinks and Baldomir was THE man after Judah. I mean maybe it all conveniently worked in Floyd's favor, but if we're going to stick to the logic of how linear championships work (and presumably linear championships is what all fighters should strive for), then Floyd's choices are actually justified.

Shit, I too find it strange that Cotto, Margarito, and Williams all somehow got left out the mix when the dust settled, but when you actually look at each step Floyd took, it's actually not all that ridiculous.


LOL. I view it like this. Mayweather is human so there are things I like about him and things I dislike about him. I find it funny how a lot of people on this board have categorized it to either completely hating him or completely loving him.

Zab WAS the man at welterweight(briefly), after he lost to Spinks, he no longer was the man. He lost in January 2006 to Baldy, and 3 months later he gets a shot at the P4P king!!! I do not care how anyone tries to justify that fight, it's a farce. I would have 1000 times rather PBF fought Margarito or anyone else decently rated at that time.

Speaking of questionable resumes, here is Floyd's in the last 5 years.

2005- Past his prime blown up welterweight Sharmba Mitchell.
2006- Hey I just lost my previous fight Zab Judah.
2006- Baldomir...need I say more.
2007- Seen better days Oscar DeLa Hoya.
2007- Blown up jr. welterweight Ricky Hatton.
2009- Really blown up lightweight Juan Manuel Marquez
2010- Good win against Mosley, though not his best days(SSM), beautiful performance by Floyd regardless.

Regardless of all the BS in boxing, this is pretty shitty and hardly someone who claims himself to be the GOAT. There were better fights out there, and this is only 7 fights in 5 years.

Defend that.

First and foremost, I'm only "defending" Floyd's choices before his "retirement" after the Hatton fight, but let's see:

2005- Past his prime blown up welterweight Sharmba Mitchell.
After Judah KO'd Spinks, the promoters were already setting up a Mayweather/Judah title fight AND the fans were clamoring for it. Since this was Floyd's first WW fight, I saw it as a tune-up for Judah (slick southpaw, slightly slower). Some see tune-ups as legitimate, some don't, but I saw it as a tune-up, not him ducking anyone.

2006- Hey I just lost my previous fight Zab Judah.
Again for me it just boils down to who else was out there? Margarito? Fine. If you think Marg was the tougher challenge, like I said, that's cool. It's pretty much an "agree to disagree" kinda thing. All I know is that Judah gave Floyd his toughest fight to date and I was pretty damn entertained watching it.

2006- Baldomir...need I say more.
As shitty as Baldomir was, NOBODY here can deny that he was, sadly enough, THE man at Welterweight. Might have been a lucky man to be there, might have been the shittiest fighter to have ever been there, but he was THE man nonetheless. And I bet you anything if Floyd took on Marg instead, people would start saying shit like, "Mayweather ducked Baldomir!" as asinine as that sounds.

2007- Seen better days Oscar DeLa Hoya.
Going up to challenge a naturally bigger fighter for a 154 strap AND a career high payday was a bad choice? I can't hate on him for that. PLUS there were plenty of fight fans picking DLH to win this one. I mean who else was there to fight? Margarito? C'mon man. That doesn't make career sense OR financial sense.

2007- Blown up jr. welterweight Ricky Hatton.
I mean in retrospect the fight is ridiculous but at the time Ricky Hatton was an highly ranked (overhyped IMO) undefeated fighter. For whatever reason people were generally okay with this fight. I think most people would have been okay if he took on Hatton, Cotto, or Margarito at that point.

2009- Really blown up lightweight Juan Manuel Marquez
I can agree with this one being questionable, but I think he did it to make a statement since Pacquiao struggled with Marquez and Floyd toyed with him. Not the best opponent, but after a nearly two year retirement, we could have gotten a lot worse.

2010- Good win against Mosley, though not his best days(SSM), beautiful performance by Floyd regardless.
Apart from Pacquiao, Mosley was the best choice out there. But we seem to agree on this point.

Regardless of all the BS in boxing, this is pretty shitty and hardly someone who claims himself to be the GOAT. There were better fights out there, and this is only 7 fights in 5 years.
Overall, I agree with you man. His resume does not reflect the GOAT status that he claims, and I've repeatedly stated my dislike of him boasting that. But looking at his WW resume pre-Hatton, it was just kind of a result of the circumstances, not that he was deliberately ducking anyone. I mean the only two things I think he could have done to have a resume live up to people's expectations was to 1) fight more often or 2) stop taking these retirements. Both legitimate criticisms, but at the same time, you question how much of it is Floyd and how much of it is just the current trend of how often fighters fight.

What Floyd does NOW is going to be crucial to his legacy, but I just feel people glance at his past and write it off before actually looking at it. So really Floyd's choices in opponents don't really bother me because I can empathize with why he made them, but what does bother me are the conclusions he drew from the choices he made.

Better yet, let me just put it this way. During his WW campaign pre-Hatton retirement, I don't feel that Mayweather ducked anyone, but it somehow didn't result in a GOAT resume either.

No I'm not underrating his win over Spinks. If you re-read my post I mention that it seems like he has got his career back on track after that second fight. However he then went and promptly lost to Baldomir, that should tell you everything you need to know about Zab Judah.

As for Spinks yeah he was the man at WW and it is impressive when you become unified. However the WW division was comparitively weak back then. Haye unified CW and Cokezaghe unified SMW. What does that mean? Actually although I hate his guts I give Cokezaghe more props than Spinks as a fighter. My point being you can unify a weak division.

And frankly Judah was an ass for losing to Spinks the first time.

When talking about guys Floyd should've fought, yeah I would've preferred to see him in there with Margarito. Hindsight is 20/20 but at the time I think more fans wanted that fight. I also remember Winky Wright who had beaten Mosley twice at 154 and was a big name in the sport practically offering to chop his left arm off to come down to 147 and fight Floyd. Floyd really didn't want none of that either.

We both agree about Williams but as he came on later in the piece after beating Marg I will leave him out of the discussion for now.

For what it's worth I do enjoy these debates, FightHype is our version of a bunch of guys hanging round the barbers shop arguing about who was better. I hope some of you guys are around in 20 years. Then we'll really have this shit crackin Fucken Fitz will be digging up threads from 17 years ago saying "do you remember when you said THIS?" LOL

That's pretty much it for me, too.


He may have ducked fighters, he may have not. He may have taken fights for money, he may have taken tune-ups, he may have genuinely thought he was doing was the right thing, but.....



Which ever way you slice it, his resume IS NOT the resume of the GOAT. Period.




Is it his fault? Other fighters? Promotors? WHo knows. All that matters is that when it's said and done, Floyd will be remembered as a superb fighter, one of the best of the generation with supreme skills and fitness, but with a BIG '?' over his record.

The defense of that is that PBF (flawed as he is) runs his own show, makes his own decisions, and must live with it. I respect him for that. I question many of his life decisions, but he is human and it is his life. When you look at the work in progress, if you are a fair person, it is pretty damned impressive.

It might not be what you would want the man to do. He may not have reached his potential. But, bottom line, there is no logical argument against PBF being the best boxer of this era.

Could he have been more active? Of course. Could he have pushed himself with greater challenges? Certainly. But don't even think about trying to put any other boxer ahead of him in this era. You are fooling yourself like a Teabagger on Social Security and Medicare.

I said it prior to the Mosley fight that I would rate the winner P4P #1. I stand behind that choice.

It won't last much longer if he doesn't get off his ass, though.

All of that said, one of the casualties of his poor choices is any possibility of being seriously considered GOAT.

and

That was just the scene I was thinking of.

So, I haven't read any of these responses, and don't really care to. I will say, however, anyone that says Floyd "ducked" Margarito is a fucking idiot.

Great lines man, totally agree. Thats what is awesome with this site, just about every single poster here is very knowledgable and I have NO ONE in person I can talk boxing to like the people here.

Same here. I can talk about boxing to my brother and maybe like 1 other person.


I know on here, apart from a few posters , I can have accurate reports on fighters' performances if I've missed fights, chat about old school fighters and check out random vid's in the genera diss forum, haha.