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Jack 1000
Bute too strong stops Brinkley in game fight:

http://fighthype.com/pages/content8640.html


Jack
Mean Mister Mustard
So now he has fought Miranda and Brinkley. He better fight a top guy next.
SENTRAL
Bute is the premier fighter at 168 right now, his values are underated. Ward is good but Bute is better and I will lay it on the line by predicting Bute will terminate the Ward hypebole with his sweet uppercut should and when they eventually meet.
BigG
I caught the fight Bute was great and alot more skilled but Brikley comes from a lower weight class (he lost to Alfonso Gomez at 154). I think Bute is in his PRIME right now and soon he should fight against ONE of the top 168 pounders. Hell, even fight Jermain Taylor...he'd be the best opponent by far on Bute's record
Maxy
Really no need to put Spoiler on this thread title. Shit, surely every boxing fan knew the result hours and hours ago...surprised no thread was made.

Anyways, Bute looked pretty good. I got him as the no.1 right now and I'm craving a fight between him and the winner of the super six.
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Oct 16 2010, 09:24 PM) *
Bute is the king of the 168 hill which is located in eastern Canada.


I look at him like I used to look at Andre Ward; a guy with potential who has yet to prove himself. Ward is proving himself to be the man at 168, he might even win the S6. Bute hasn't done shit and will get his ass handed to him by the winner of the S6.
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Oct 16 2010, 11:48 PM) *
I feel similarly about both Ward and Bute. I do not feel that Ward has proven much so far. He is definitely a good fighter but he lacks the power that Bute has displayed.

Screw the Super Six. Who and where are they? Make the Ward v Bute fight happen and the winner can take on the winner of Froch v Abraham. Problem is that someone (Ward or Bute) have to fight somewhere besides on their homefield.


I think the real problem is Bute most likely wont be taking on one of the top fighters in his division for the foreseeable future, unless the Cobra gets brutally knocked out and Bute offers him a trip to Quebec. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fight the winner of Hopkins/Pascal, the weakest guy from the S6, and then move up to 175.
Fitz
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Oct 17 2010, 06:41 AM) *
So now he has fought Miranda and Brinkley. He better fight a top guy next.


MMM, I don't think Bute can do much. He has been struggling to find an opponent recently at 168 because of the fighters in super 6. He cannot fight anyone in the tournament yet, and then there are a number of guys that make up the rest of top fighters at 168 like Bika, Miranda and Andrade that he has already beaten.
I actually read an article some months ago that at the time, there wasn't a guy in the top 10 at 168 that Bute could have fought, they were either in the tournament, he had already beaten them or they had fights scheduled. I think he had to look outside the top 10 for an opponent.
His other option is to move up to 175, but if he is comfortable at 168 and wants to stay there, I think he should. Plus he can be in some interesting fights, once the super 6 is done.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (Fitz @ Oct 17 2010, 01:04 AM) *
MMM, I don't think Bute can do much. He has been struggling to find an opponent recently at 168 because of the fighters in super 6. He cannot fight anyone in the tournament yet, and then there are a number of guys that make up the rest of top fighters at 168 like Bika, Miranda and Andrade that he has already beaten.
I actually read an article some months ago that at the time, there wasn't a guy in the top 10 at 168 that Bute could have fought, they were either in the tournament, he had already beaten them or they had fights scheduled. I think he had to look outside the top 10 for an opponent.
His other option is to move up to 175, but if he is comfortable at 168 and wants to stay there, I think he should. Plus he can be in some interesting fights, once the super 6 is done.


I suppose that's what it comes down to. Why leave his comfort zone if he feels that it would jeapordize a fight with the winner of the 168 pound tournament? A lucrative option though, would be to get the winner of Pascal-Hopkins.
salvador
I'll take Froch, Abraham, and Ward over Bute every day of the week.

SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (salvador @ Oct 17 2010, 07:00 PM) *
I'll take Froch, Abraham, and Ward over Bute every day of the week.

Don't respect Bute much, eh Salvador?

You might be right but I have to disagree with you. I am not that impressed with Ward yet. His style matched up well with Kessler. He was impressive grinding it out against Green. But neither of those guys have anywhere near the skills of Bute.

I also don't see Froch or Abraham being able to deal with Bute's combination of speed, power and work rate. I think Bute puts Froch to sleep.

Abraham would have to completely retool his style in order to deal with Bute. No way he gets away with his normal tortoise shell defense for the first third of the fight. Dirrell exposed Abraham's weakness. Bute would simply out hussle him all night for a UD unless the fight was stopped on account of the damage inflicted by Bute.

I would say Bute's weaknesses are that he has not faced a top notch challenge and his last 15 fights have been either in Montreal or Quebec City.
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Oct 17 2010, 10:23 PM) *
Don't respect Bute much, eh Salvador?

You might be right but I have to disagree with you. I am not that impressed with Ward yet. His style matched up well with Kessler. He was impressive grinding it out against Green. But neither of those guys have anywhere near the skills of Bute.

I also don't see Froch or Abraham being able to deal with Bute's combination of speed, power and work rate. I think Bute puts Froch to sleep.

Abraham would have to completely retool his style in order to deal with Bute. No way he gets away with his normal tortoise shell defense for the first third of the fight. Dirrell exposed Abraham's weakness. Bute would simply out hussle him all night for a UD unless the fight was stopped on account of the damage inflicted by Bute.

I would say Bute's weaknesses are that he has not faced a top notch challenge and his last 15 fights have been either in Montreal or Quebec City.


I think Abraham shows him the difference between fighting a top 20 fighter and a top 5 fighter.
salvador
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Oct 17 2010, 09:23 PM) *
Don't respect Bute much, eh Salvador?

You might be right but I have to disagree with you. I am not that impressed with Ward yet. His style matched up well with Kessler. He was impressive grinding it out against Green. But neither of those guys have anywhere near the skills of Bute.

I also don't see Froch or Abraham being able to deal with Bute's combination of speed, power and work rate. I think Bute puts Froch to sleep.

Abraham would have to completely retool his style in order to deal with Bute. No way he gets away with his normal tortoise shell defense for the first third of the fight. Dirrell exposed Abraham's weakness. Bute would simply out hussle him all night for a UD unless the fight was stopped on account of the damage inflicted by Bute.

I would say Bute's weaknesses are that he has not faced a top notch challenge and his last 15 fights have been either in Montreal or Quebec City.


Froch and Abraham are too tough for Bute - forget the skills, their chins and their punches are just too tough.

Bute has speed and skills, but he ain't got the speed or skills or defense of Dirrell. Abraham would have a much easier time getting to Bute than he did to Dirrell.

I think Ward came into his own in the Kessler fight. Before Kessler, Ward was tentative and relied too much on his speed and defense. A pre-Kessler Ward probably loses on points to Bute. Post Kessler Ward kos Bute.

I respect Bute, but he's 30 and has never faced a top guy. The closest thing to it was a spent Miranda - and Andrade knocked Bute out. Bute is a B+ level fighter who has been wise to avoid the top guys. It's not as if he couldn't have fought Hopkins by now or even Dawson if he'd wanted to. Instead he fights C level guys and fills the stadium.

Froch, Abraham, and Ward all beat Bute by ko.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (salvador @ Oct 18 2010, 04:52 AM) *
Froch and Abraham are too tough for Bute - forget the skills, their chins and their punches are just too tough.

Bute has speed and skills, but he ain't got the speed or skills or defense of Dirrell. Abraham would have a much easier time getting to Bute than he did to Dirrell.

I think Ward came into his own in the Kessler fight. Before Kessler, Ward was tentative and relied too much on his speed and defense. A pre-Kessler Ward probably loses on points to Bute. Post Kessler Ward kos Bute.

I respect Bute, but he's 30 and has never faced a top guy. The closest thing to it was a spent Miranda - and Andrade knocked Bute out. Bute is a B+ level fighter who has been wise to avoid the top guys. It's not as if he couldn't have fought Hopkins by now or even Dawson if he'd wanted to. Instead he fights C level guys and fills the stadium.

Froch, Abraham, and Ward all beat Bute by ko.

Hopefully we will get to see at least one of them fight him.

Again, you might be right. But I honestly do not think so. You are correct that he has not fought that level of competition. But I think he has been brought along intelligently, though the homer part of it is pronounced and annoying (16 of his last 17 fights in Montreal or Quebec City).

I'm just not as impressed by what any of them have done. Abraham has the most impressive resume. But not by that much really.

The difference between those three and Bute is almost exclusively the fact they have participated in The (not even close to) Super Six. I think Bute's team was correct to stay away from that catastrophe.

Ward does not have the pop to deal with Bute. Abraham does not have the skills. Froch went life and death with Kessler and lost, after Ward had given him the blueprint.

Bute is King of the 168 Hill. Let's see someone try and knock him off.

It would be nice if it was Ward in MSG.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (salvador @ Oct 18 2010, 07:52 AM) *
Froch and Abraham are too tough for Bute - forget the skills, their chins and their punches are just too tough.

Bute has speed and skills, but he ain't got the speed or skills or defense of Dirrell. Abraham would have a much easier time getting to Bute than he did to Dirrell.

I think Ward came into his own in the Kessler fight. Before Kessler, Ward was tentative and relied too much on his speed and defense. A pre-Kessler Ward probably loses on points to Bute. Post Kessler Ward kos Bute.

I respect Bute, but he's 30 and has never faced a top guy. The closest thing to it was a spent Miranda - and Andrade knocked Bute out. Bute is a B+ level fighter who has been wise to avoid the top guys. It's not as if he couldn't have fought Hopkins by now or even Dawson if he'd wanted to. Instead he fights C level guys and fills the stadium.

Froch, Abraham, and Ward all beat Bute by ko.


To Bute's credit. he did KO Andrade.

It's true that Bute doesn't have the same speed level of Direll, but he's still quicker than most guys at 168. He also hits a lot harder than Direll, and I might even say he's a better counterpuncher. That counter left uppercut of his is a thing of beauty. So far his best opponents have been Bika, Berrio, and Andrade, all heavy handed guys, and with the exception of the 1st Andrade fight, he took their shots pretty well.
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Oct 18 2010, 09:18 AM) *
Hopefully we will get to see at least one of them fight him.

Again, you might be right. But I honestly do not think so. You are correct that he has not fought that level of competition. But I think he has been brought along intelligently, though the homer part of it is pronounced and annoying (16 of his last 17 fights in Montreal or Quebec City).

I'm just not as impressed by what any of them have done. Abraham has the most impressive resume. But not by that much really.

The difference between those three and Bute is almost exclusively the fact they have participated in The (not even close to) Super Six. I think Bute's team was correct to stay away from that catastrophe.

Ward does not have the pop to deal with Bute. Abraham does not have the skills. Froch went life and death with Kessler and lost, after Ward had given him the blueprint.

Bute is King of the 168 Hill. Let's see someone try and knock him off.

It would be nice if it was Ward in MSG.


You're right, he'd be obligated to fight[other than Taylor] the top guys in the division. He couldn't sit back and fight fringe top 10 fighters or bums then. Good move on his part.
Fitz
QUOTE (salvador @ Oct 18 2010, 10:52 PM) *
Froch and Abraham are too tough for Bute - forget the skills, their chins and their punches are just too tough.

Bute has speed and skills, but he ain't got the speed or skills or defense of Dirrell. Abraham would have a much easier time getting to Bute than he did to Dirrell.

I think Ward came into his own in the Kessler fight. Before Kessler, Ward was tentative and relied too much on his speed and defense. A pre-Kessler Ward probably loses on points to Bute. Post Kessler Ward kos Bute.

I respect Bute, but he's 30 and has never faced a top guy. The closest thing to it was a spent Miranda - and Andrade knocked Bute out. Bute is a B+ level fighter who has been wise to avoid the top guys. It's not as if he couldn't have fought Hopkins by now or even Dawson if he'd wanted to. Instead he fights C level guys and fills the stadium.

Froch, Abraham, and Ward all beat Bute by ko.


You are being hard on Bute IMO, he is 30 and not faced a top guy, but I remember you thinking the WORLD of Margarito, yet he never beat a top guy, but for some reason it matters when it comes to Bute. You are right that he could have fought Hopkins or Dawson, but what it Bute is content at 168? He is the champion there and has fought there the whole time. But would those guys have come down to 168?
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Oct 18 2010, 12:44 PM) *
A lucrative option though, would be to get the winner of Pascal-Hopkins.


Lucrative & Hopkins should not be used in the same sentence.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Oct 18 2010, 05:49 PM) *
Lucrative & Hopkins should not be used in the same sentence.


LOL I get what you're saying Stevesnki but the winner of that fight would be a big fight for Bute. First of all, if Hopkins wins, Bute would be facing the guy who beat Jean Pascal, and would create a lot of press in Canada, which is where the fight would take place. If Pascal wins it is even better because the two guys are known in Canada.
salvador
QUOTE (Fitz @ Oct 18 2010, 04:25 PM) *
You are being hard on Bute IMO, he is 30 and not faced a top guy, but I remember you thinking the WORLD of Margarito, yet he never beat a top guy, but for some reason it matters when it comes to Bute. You are right that he could have fought Hopkins or Dawson, but what it Bute is content at 168? He is the champion there and has fought there the whole time. But would those guys have come down to 168?


"Margarito", pre-Mosley wraps issue, and "Bute" have no business being in the same sentence. Margarito was punishing guys and taking their best shots in return like a walk in the park. None of the top 168 pounders are afraid of Bute in the way that Floyd, Zab ect. were afraid of Marg. Different story altogether.

Marg was going out of his way to fight the best whereas Bute fills stadiums with C level guys and so he does it. If no one else on this board should understand that you should.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Oct 18 2010, 10:59 AM) *
You're right, he'd be obligated to fight[other than Taylor] the top guys in the division. He couldn't sit back and fight fringe top 10 fighters or bums then. Good move on his part.

You don't really want to get into the (not within a solar system of a) Super Six debate, do you gt? None of them should have signed up for that train wreck waiting to happen.

But I don't want to open up that can of bird turds again, unless I'm forced to.
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Oct 18 2010, 09:01 PM) *
You don't really want to get into the (not within a solar system of a) Super Six debate, do you gt? None of them should have signed up for that train wreck waiting to happen.

But I don't want to open up that can of bird turds again, unless I'm forced to.


Seeing as this isn't a S6 thread it'd be pointless to discuss the tournament, however the fighters that joined it were willing to prove themselves against the best available opposition. Would Bute be willing to fight the top 5 fighters in the division over the course of 2 years? I don't think so. In all honesty I think he'll probably only fight one of the top fighters at 168 before retiring.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Oct 18 2010, 06:20 PM) *
Seeing as this isn't a S6 thread it'd be pointless to discuss the tournament, however the fighters that joined it were willing to prove themselves against the best available opposition. Would Bute be willing to fight the top 5 fighters in the division over the course of 2 years? I don't think so. In all honesty I think he'll probably only fight one of the top fighters at 168 before retiring.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the fighters. They stepped up. Their managements should have recognized how foolish it was to attempt a round robin format in boxing. They should have forced a four (drop Taylor and one of the Europeans) or eight (add Bute and Andrade) man single elimination tourney. Either way we would have had a champion by about now. Short, clean and sweet.

Bute's camp was proven correct for avoiding the round robin portion of the 168 world cup.
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Oct 18 2010, 09:42 PM) *
I'm not trying to take anything away from the fighters. They stepped up. Their managements should have recognized how foolish it was to attempt a round robin format in boxing. They should have forced a four (drop Taylor and one of the Europeans) or eight (add Bute and Andrade) man single elimination tourney. Either way we would have had a champion by about now. Short, clean and sweet.

Bute's camp was proven correct for avoiding the round robin portion of the 168 world cup.


Looking beyond the tournament itself you'd six guys fighting the top five guys in the division. Bute is looking good against fringe fighters and bums but guys in the S6 are[some of them] looking good against the best guys 168 has to offer. Without the tournament I think all of the fighters would be doing what Bute is doing right now; taking domestic fights against lesser fighters.

Fitz
QUOTE (salvador @ Oct 19 2010, 11:39 AM) *
"Margarito", pre-Mosley wraps issue, and "Bute" have no business being in the same sentence. Margarito was punishing guys and taking their best shots in return like a walk in the park. None of the top 168 pounders are afraid of Bute in the way that Floyd, Zab ect. were afraid of Marg. Different story altogether.

Marg was going out of his way to fight the best whereas Bute fills stadiums with C level guys and so he does it. If no one else on this board should understand that you should.


I definitely understand what you are saying. Maybe Margarito did have credibility, but it just seems that very small differences make such a big difference of opinion on the two. Margarito having a good chin and Mayweather not fighting him seems to be the difference and give Margarito the edge over Bute. Keep in mind that when the super 6 started, Bute was only on about 24-25 fights. Dirre ll and Ward were not going to happen years ago, still too fresh, Abraham was at middle, and Kessler years ago had a fight with Calzaghe, lost and then not much happened with him, and Calzaghe? Had fought Kessler, Hopkins and then retired. I suppose he could have fought Froch?
I just don't think at the time prior to super 6, there was a huge list of fighters that had to fight Bute or vice versa. The super 6 is what gave some of these fighters the reputation, and they just were not BIG fights for anyone prior to the super 6. If the trend continues after the super 6, I will be right with you. But for now, not much else I can say.
I just think you are being a little hard on Bute, and I think hindsight is the reason. People can say that some of the guys in the super 6 would have been good fights for Bute, but prior to the super 6, there wasn't much to it, up until now. I am willing to give Bute a chance.
Bute only won his title in 2007, that same year Kessler-Calzaghe fought, then Calzaghe fought Hopkins soon after. There just wasn't much going on at 168, it just seems like Bute could have done a whole lot more now, because the names at 168 seem familiar now. Though it wasn't the case previously.
ViperSniper
Bute was just way too big, strong and quick for a Brinkley as he closed the show off well. Although the least experienced out of the top dogs at 168 in terms of skills and what they bring inside the ring I think Bute is the most dangerous in the division. I would love to see the following match-ups at 168:

Bute-Ward
Bute-Abraham
Bute-Froch
Bute-Kessler

Bute would match up well against many fighters just based on his style and how he fights, so I'm hoping he can continue winning.
salvador
QUOTE (Fitz @ Oct 19 2010, 01:24 AM) *
I just think you are being a little hard on Bute, and I think hindsight is the reason. People can say that some of the guys in the super 6 would have been good fights for Bute, but prior to the super 6, there wasn't much to it, up until now. I am willing to give Bute a chance.


I like Bute as well, but he's been selling out the Bell Center in Montreal for the past 3 or 4 years. Outside of Calzaghe and Kessler, nobody in the division had that kind of market power and it makes sense to assume that if he's wanted stiffer competition (even Alan Green), he had the power to get it. The truth is, he's been smart with his opponent selection because he's had easy fights and made tons of money (though Andrade, a B-/C+ level guy, DID knock him out).

I tend to assume that when the super 6 is over he'll fight the top guys. And I think the matchups will be fun to watch - I'd love to see him fight Froch, Abraham, Ward and Kessler. Kessler is Bute's best chance at a win so I'd expect Kessler to be first choice.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Oct 18 2010, 07:05 PM) *
Looking beyond the tournament itself you'd six guys fighting the top five guys in the division. Bute is looking good against fringe fighters and bums but guys in the S6 are[some of them] looking good against the best guys 168 has to offer. Without the tournament I think all of the fighters would be doing what Bute is doing right now; taking domestic fights against lesser fighters.

I have to admit that he seems to be taking the Calzaghe route to boxing greatness.
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