http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb9-KSC1fPQ

Very nice demo of a match between the 2. The WC guy was less fluid and much more rigid in his style. The boxer was fluid and adaptive. The Boxer was systematically breaking the WC guy down. Great to watch these two young men go at it. WC is very frontal in its approach to fighting. Someone(like a boxer) who gives angles will drive a WC practitioner nuts. They are in tune with fighting in straight lines. A boxer who steps to the side will be difficult to hit.

The guy was a kick boxer and not a traditional pugilist, yet his stance and mechanics were boxing cannot consider him a "boxer". Even the yutube thing labeled him kickboxer... yet you can see that boxers skilled can hang with any type of fighter

From a purely hands based perspective, there is no art that can compare to boxing. Neither guy really threw many kicks in there or really went for take downs, so its natural that the guy with boxing experience came out on top. The wing chun stance that is getting used there seemed too squared up, meaning that he couldnt rotate to generate power, and it limited his defence as well. His punches were poor

Still, give credit to the young lads for stepping in there and having a go.

Thats is the way that I've seen most of them stand. The object isn't to get power on the punches. It appears that they aim to overwhelm their opponents with offense. Their offense appears to be based on frontal straight punches. They fight in very straight lines. Their chief sparring partner is a wooden dummy who is always in front. Thats the way they deal with opponents. Lateral movement appears to drive them crazy because it takes them out of their comfort zone. A boxer's jab is the greatest weapon a fighter has. A great jab can offset many martial arts techniques. I've asked many of my sensei's how to stop a jab and I've gotten a few different answers. One stated that we should follow the jab in and then go into a technique. One said, be patient and stay away, until they commit to something you can deal with. I tend to agree more with staying away and waiting. Following it in can easily get you hit by another jab or something bigger.

I was reading an interview with one of Bruce Lee's friends who had studied boxing amongst other things. Bruce was a big fan of boxings lead jab. He said that he (the friend, not bruce) had a fight with a high level gangster enforcer who was a respected martial artist. He said the enforcer had a very wide stance and rigid form. He was basically able to land at will on this guy using just his boxing, peppering him with jabs and moving. Afterwoods the enforcer accused him of not really wanting to fight, to cover up the fact that he had been rendered basically defenceless. The difference being that boxing requires you to be mobile and adaptive, whereas the asian style was too rigidly entrenched in form.

I would love to see a really high level fighting monk in the UFC, just to see how well they can deal the versatility of a good MMA fighter. I've seen monks spar with tae kwan do guys on youtube. Neither guy really managed to land significant blows on the other, but i was impressed with how quick the monk was on his feet. But he was retreating in a straight line. There was no lateral movement

Chinese TMA's (Traditional Martial Arts) ALL suck ass. They've proven to be failures when it comes to actual combat conditions.

The only TMA's that have proven effective, to any reasonable degree, in real life situations are Japanese TMA's. Jiu Jitsu, Karate, Aikido, and Judo are all examples. I've even seen some guys incorporate Sumo (e.g Lyoto Machida) into their game. But even then, fighters must incorporate boxing and wrestling into their training if they hope to have any success in real life combat situations. (I.E. Mixed Martial Arts.)

The Chinese TMA's, though, what a fucking joke. Once those guys get into competition you see virtually every element of their "art" fly out the window, and the fight quickly breaks down into a bitchslap contest between bar-room brawlers, minus the power and humor factor, and minus the masculinity. I'd rather see 2 girls fight. At least they have an excuse for fighting like bitches.

The hissy fit about wing chun in this video is piss funny



I then watched a video this same dude uploaded of himself actually fighting in the cage against a guy who was just wrestling. He did alright, although there wasnt actually much wing chun in the fight. Then i watched another version of the same fight where they revealed that the guy he was fighting was just some random dude out of the audience who accepted a challenge... suddenly in retrospect his performance seemed much crappier

Man the guy just could not accept that his martial art alone was not going to cut it in an mma bout. The days of bringing in one discipline into a fight are long gone, but no one told that guy. Hopefully the situation will wake him up to the realities of MMA.

C'mon man. Aren't you a wee bit biased?

Yes. But it doesn't make my previous statement any less valid. Other than those gay ass Sanshou "competitions", can you find one LEGITIMATE full-contact match-up where a fighter came in using a Chinese TMA and:

1.) Won the fight
2.) Did NOT look gay and/or weak as hell


I've been watching MMA since the inception of the UFC, and I've never seen any fighter successfully incorporate ANY Chinese TMA's into real combat situations. I've seen a ton of Japanese TMA's. But zero Chinese.

The truth of the matter is that Chinese TMA's simply don't work. The flying death punches and gay ass stances and shit, I mean, I know some nerds think it is cool and shit, but it simply isn't effective. Period.

It's just shit nerds who are into DragonBall Z and Asian porn are into because they think it makes them look cool in front of their super geek friends, and that, somehow, in the end it will help them kick the school jock's ass and get the cool Asian girl in school who was born in the States and only dates white guys.

LOL I know a guy like you're talking about Warlord. My gf is Asian and has a friend like that. He's been in the friend zone with her since high school and she's 27 right now. You had me laughing so hard when you described them.

My wife is Asian, so, that being said, I've just seen so many of those guys by now it is ridiculous. Just complete and utter retardation that has fermented itself to perfection.

LMAO. Those posts were spot on and hilarious.

I'm with you, I have always loved the asian martial arts in movies, but in reality, like you said. They are all show and no go. If it were the case, you would have seen a lot of them in MMA I would imagine, but they aren't.

Though that said, I was kind of impressed by some of the moves pulled off in this video.

By the way, the video you may find disturbing, I personally found it disgusting. Just a heads up.



Originally posted it here if anyone wants to discuss it.

http://www.fighthype.com/community/index.p...c=25626&hl=

I hope that whoever stamped on that guys head goes to prison

That is a disgrace. The man just came into give a demonstration, and he had surrendered clearly before he had been stamped on.

Fucking pieces shit

Yep, I hope something more terrible than prison happens to him.

Though the mentally impaired guy was pretty good.

So the basis of your argument is that Chinese TMA's suck because they don't show up in MMA? Using that logic, does that mean boxing sucks? Granted, you know WAAAAY more about MMA than I do, but I don't really ever see PURE boxers enter MMA. That's not because they suck, that's because they have their own sport. There could be a million reasons why Chinese martial artists don't enter MMA. From what I know, most of them believe it goes against the philosophy. But whatever. You have your opinion. And honestly bro, you're one of the best posters on this board, but shit, I can tell when you're posting from place of reason and when you're posting from a place of emotion. Just sayin'.

Like I said to Warlord, I guess boxing sucks too.

No. I said they don't work in real life combat situations. MMA was my example, just because I thought street fighting and those gay ass Sanshou tournaments would make poor examples, as they feature little to zero real skill.

But I guess I should use them now, since you've pigeon-holed my initial post.

As I said, I've seen a ton of Sanshou (Sanda) "competitions" out here. These so-called fighting tournaments feature various styles of fighting which fall under the category of "wushu," and include the aforementioned Wing Chun style. The fights are laughably ridiculous. At best they resemble K-1, which is straight boxing plus knees and kicks. Not the fucking weird-ass flying death punches, tiger claw nerve point strikes, monkey knees, and any other ridiculous shit the gay Chinese have come up with.

At worst, as I stated before, it turns into a bitch fest, full of slaps, gay open handed punches to the chest, and other displays of faggotry. Pure fail on every level.

I'm still gonna stay away from street fighting, unless you really want to take it there. But I've seen a TON of "fights" outside on the streets (and in the subways, shopping malls, McDonalds, etc...) and never did I see some dumb Chinese dude go into, like, a praying mantis style or some shit and whip some ass. It ALWAYS disintegrated into two dudes (DUDES!) rolling around on the ground pulling hair and accidentally scratching each other with their long, dirty-ass fingernails.


No. Because boxing is one of the MANY styles that has been incorporated into MMA successfully. Every fighter trains boxing to improve their stand-up.


James Toney.


But, as stated, boxing as a style has been incorporated into MMA training. And can be effective in a real-life combat situations. From MMA, to Kick Boxing, to street fighting.


There could be. But only one REAL reason. Because their style doesn't work. Period. Every time you get a competition with a Chinese dude using wushu against some foreign style, the excuses ALWAYS come flying down the pike later about how the Chinese dude only lost because the evil foreigners poisoned him before the bout or some equally gay non-sense. And I wish I was joking about that.


1.) What philosophy? Dude, get that noble kung fu warrior image you've seen in the movies out of your head. We're talking about a country where people visit Buddhist temples to pray for wealth, power, money, love, and long life. And if you know anything at all about Buddhism, you will know how laughably stupid it is to see people praying for such bullshit.

Chinese Wushu (including Kung Fu) is just another propaganda machine for the Chinese government to pretend as if though the P.R.C still has some sort of connection to China's long dead historical culture. Hey kids, wanna visit the world famous Shaolin Temple, where the real Kung Fu masters train? Well, now you can! Book your train tickets to ZhengZhou today! And for 25RMB (about $3), you can walk right through the temple, witness our powerful warriors in training, visit their temples, and buy our souvenirs! So what are you waiting for? Book those tickets today!

And if you're real lucky, you'll see some Buddhist monks there too, walking around the temple playing PSP and listening to their mp3 players! Yay! And the best part is, if you interrupt them politely, they might offer to sell you some real genuine prayer books you can use in the temple to pray for money and success! Yay!


2.) Those idiots fight in competitions all the time. Chinese ones, that feature wushu only, and no other forms of combat. NOT because those styles are so dangerous that they are lethal to normal human beings, which is what most of those dumb idiots will tell you. It is simply because, as I said, those styles: Do. Not. Work. Period.


I'm not just posting from emotions here, brother. I'm also using logic. Chinese TMA's absence from real life combat situations is not an accident. It is a fact. I mean, I know saving face is important and all to Chinese culture, but you need to let this one go. Flying death punches aren't real. They don't work. Nerve strikes are pure fantasy. And you'll never see a kung fu master employing the praying mantis style successfully in a fight. I mean, I guess to some people it is pretty sweet to imagine such things, but wishing something does not make it so.

Nah man, I'm not trying to pigeon-hole your argument. You just only mentioned MMA, which is actually probably the most accurate example you could use. I mean unless you're out there challenging kung-fu masters to back alley brawls, I wouldn't know how else you could evaluate its effectiveness. But I'm just saying there are probably other reason why you don't see much Chinese martial arts in MMA outside of them just sucking.


To me this sounds like you just saw two Chinese guys that suck at fighting. You're assuming they're trained in some kind of Chinese martial arts. Not all Chinese people take martial arts dammit!


Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most of the original UFC fighters/founders attribute the idea of MMA to Bruce Lee? Isn't the whole concept of MMA based on his theory of Jeet Kune Do? How do you even know that ZERO elements of Chinese martial arts aren't incorporated into MMA?


You would have been better off with Ray Mercer

But seriously man, shitty example. Toney's MMA debut only further the notion that "boxing sucks" in MMA.


There could be a ton of reasons. I mean how many Chinese athletes do you see in any sport outside of China? Why haven't we seen any Chinese boxers? There is literally like 2 NBA stars from China and that's it. Political reasons and country relations could definitely play a factor as to why we don't see more Chinese athletes in general.


Well I mean philosophy in ANY fighting art. I know plenty of boxers that said they stopped fighting in the streets after they learned how to box. The competitions of boxing, kickboxing or MMA are just structured differently than other martial tournaments like Kung Fu or Taekwondo. They're definitely less contact in the latter sports, so maybe they'd be less effective, but I think it's due to the conditioning, not the art itself. But I'm not even gonna touch the topic of religion in China cuz I don't know what the fuck is going on there with that.


Dude, Chinese Wushu has been around WAAAAAAY longer than the PRC ever came into existence. They might be using it to their advantage, but they sure didn't create it for it's purposes. Seriously man, don't let your hate make you forget history.


Until we start seeing Chinese martial artists getting fucked up in MMA (which could very well happen), I don't think you can attribute it to that one reason. Just because they don't show up doesn't mean it's because they suck. I mean that's limiting logic.

I just think a lot of your opinion is based off your bad personal experiences in the country.


Truth be told man, I have way more of an American culture than Chinese culture. I already told you, I barely have any Chinese friends because some of them have this ass backwards thinking about racial/class superiority. But it doesn't mean everything about the culture sucks.

I mean have you actually trained in any of these martial arts? It just sounds like the basis of your argument is dependent on what styles are present in MMA and the gayness of Chinese street fights and one type of martial art tournament. It really doesn't sound like you have much of the theory behind it, unless you were just holding back.

All I know is this. I trained for 3 months with a Wing Chun master in Guatemala (he was a white dude by the way) and that mofo literally had forearms that felt like steel pipes and used to whoop on people in sparring. Presumably if these Chinese martial artists, or even movie stars, like Jet Li or Donnie Yen are such panzies, you'd believe you could take them correct? Otherwise, you'd fight worse than some panziass school girls.

Just sayin'

It's not the style that makes the student, it's the student that makes the style.


That being said, Chinese TMA's are still gay.

RD is a pretty experienced martial artist. I guess I lose.

Its simple logic. Boxing is economy of motion personified into striking. No wasted movement, small defensive adjustments completely changing the way a fight is heading. Your wing chun styles are the opposite. Theres so much flowery crap in there that serves no purpose other than to appeal to bystanders and distract your opponent. Looks great in movies though.

Snoop, of course boxing has its place in MMA. Its one of the core disciplines along with greco, thai and JJ. Its usually the first discipline wrestlers try and pick up when they make the move to MMA, and often when you get 2 good wrestlers going up against each other it becomes a low level boxing match. Granted, its not boxing at its finest or purest, but all the arts get bastardized a little in order to fit together for MMA.

You go watch video's of that tool i posted, crying about being born and dying a wing chun man. When he's actually in a match there is very very little wing chun in there that is effective, and as warlord said, it looks just like any other brawl when the shit is going down. He's defending it left right and centre, yet the wanker doesnt even use it in the cage.

However, when your bridging the gap coming forward, throwing in a bit of flashy arm movements and stances can win over a crowd because its something different. Visual aesthetics. Fluff in other words. Just save it for where it belongs and throw some flash in the centre of the octagon as a victory dance

Nah. Them sucking is the main reason.



No. I usually watch the Sanshou tournaments when they're on TV, and there is an MMA org in China called The Art of War which you can also get down here.

I've seen plenty of fights between Chinese people, both professionally and non-professionally. And I've seen very little skill difference between the two.

As I've said before, once the fight starts, the art stops. It either turns into a bitch-fest or a kick-boxing match. But I do NOT see fucking Wushu spinning kicks and flying elbows and nerve strikes and shit once the the heat is on.



Yes. And Bruce Lee said the perfect fighter would be one who has mastered boxing and wrestling. It is a documented quote, so you can look it up if you're interested. Notice a conspicuous absence of anything there?


No.

Jeet Kun Do was Bruce Lee's attempt at melding all styles.

MMA as a sport was created to find which style was the best. And which sucked. Japanese TMA's proved successful in the vein of Jiu Jitsu. Chinese TMA's did not.

Modern-day MMA proved Bruce right in that it is a mix of styles that is most effective, not a singular style.


Because I've never seen anyone land a death punch yet, or intentionally dance around the ring like a monkey before landing a fight-ending or even meaningful punch.

I've seen plenty in the olympics, and they've performed reasonably well as of late.



But it doesn't play a reason as to why Chinese TMA's aren't used in MMA, as Chinese martial arts have long since been taught in countries around the world.

Chinese TMA's have been around as long or longer than most of the other TMA's in the world. If anyone could have incorporated them into any sort of meaningful or practical use, wouldn't they have conceivably done it by now?

As I said earlier, I've even seen Sumo used effectively in MMA. If fighters are able to bring Sumo into MMA, then there isn't any reason at all why we shouldn't see Wushu being incorporated. Unless, of course, it just isn't effective.

Which, as I have stated all along, it is not.



I didn't mean to imply that Wushu was created by the P.R.C. That certainly and obviously isn't the case. What I meant to imply was that modern Wushu, like everything else in mainland China, is a bastardized form that in no war bears any resemblance to what it once was.

I said this in response to your retort that perhaps we don't see Wushu practitioners in MMA because of philosophical reasons. That isn't true. Modern Wushu is like everything else in Red China. It's sole purpose is to make money. And it no longer has any connection to what it once was. The P.R.C effectively destroyed all trace of true Chinese culture during Mao's cultural revolution.

Any links you see to ancient China are facades created by the Party upon Mao's death. China is a land of manufactured culture, but make no mistake, it is bereft of truth or sincerity. And all of it is designed for the sole purpose of making money.



I've seen Wushu used in just about every form of competition there is, including MMA, and I'm telling you, it doesn't work. Wushu practitioners who've fought in MMA abandon their discipline within seconds and turn the match into a kick-boxing match or a bitchfest. I don't know how many times I've gotta say it.

It's not like guys haven't tried to use it. They have. And I've yet to see anyone make it work.



I love ancient Chinese culture, bro. The Sanguo Period is actually a huge hobby of mine, and something I've spent a lot of time studying. Hell, my Chinese name is Liu Bei, lol. And only that because my wife said it would be too pretentious for me to use the name Zhuge Liang.

But what I am not a fan of is China's so-called modern "culture." The country is, generally speaking, nothing but a massive collection of retarded, brainwashed simpletons with low/no class, inflated egos fueled by a massive inferiority complex, and a greed for money and power that would make the staunchest capitalist blush.



I trained Tae Kwan Do for nearly 3 years growing up. (At the ATA center, under Todd Droege, a 2-time Tae Kwan Do full-contact champion.) And for the record, Tae Kwan Do is another bullshit TMA that has little practical use in real combat situations.

I mean, I've been in a ton of fights, and never once did I find an opportunity where a spinning backfist or crescent kick seemed like a good idea.

Other than that, I've only done some light training in Jiu Jitsu when I was in Japan, but it wasn't anything serious.

Made my day.

Warlord, I only have two things to address in your reply.

1) Bruce Lee did in fact incorporate western boxing and wrestling into his philosophy (I think he was the first?), but his background is based in Wing Chun. Many of the fighting forms overlap or carry similarities. I just find it hard to believe that there is absolutely no Chinese influence in other fighting forms.

2) Taekwondo is a pretty useless TMA, at least from my experience. I remember the first time I "sparred" in a Taekwondo match, I couldn't land any kicks so I just went up and punched the dude in the face. The teacher stopped the fight and told me that was prohibited.

Bruce's background was in Wing Chun, and he himself saw the weakness in Chinese TMA's, which is why he began to develop his own style.

And I will repeat, Bruce thought the perfect fighter would be one who could become efficient in both boxing and wrestling. Not one who excelled in Wing Chun or other garbage Chinese TMA's.



Of course you find it hard to believe. You have Chinese roots, and truly no offense intended, but you're coming in with a typical Chinese argument. You're trying to save face for the Chinese people, because you took personal offense to people shitting on a supposed aspect of supposed Chinese culture.

I see it all the time, bro. It's nothing new to me. Though it is a bit tiresome. You're basically saying "Prove to me it doesn't exist." Well goddamn it, prove to me it does. I mean, I can say prove to me Santa Claus don't exist mother fucker, and you could never really actually do it.

If the influence does exist, if the art has been successful in real combat, then it should be relatively easy for you to validate your stance. Right?

But the bottom line is, as I and others on this board have stated, Chinese TMA's simply are not effective in real life combat situations. And we're not just saying that because it looks gay, or because no one has ever tried to use it before. They have. I've seen it countless times. And it always fails. Period.

If you want to keep arguing that Wing Chun, or ANY Chinese TMA for that matter, work in real life combat situations, then bring some examples. I mean, I'm just about done trying to argue my point with a guy who disagrees because he thinks that Chinese TMA's may work.



Goes back to my original point. I've seen ZERO traditional TMA's have any sort of effectiveness in real life, with the exception of Japanese TMA's, which have a very good track record in Mixed Martial Arts and other forms of competitive combat.

Maybe a PURE Chinese TMA style sucks, but you're saying that EVERY element of Chinese TMA sucks, which I find is hard to prove. All I'm saying is that there may be elements of Chinese TMAs in other fighting styles. There definitely are pieces of Chinese TMA in Bruce's theory.

My striking style is derived from my study of Chi combined with multiple striking disciplines, including Chin na. The foundation of the style's physicality is boxing technique.

If you were to have video of my hand to hand combat experiences, it is true that you would be hard pressed to identify Chinese disciplines being utilized. But I assure you, at the core is my control of Chi and my years of training focused on striking points that disable.

Most hand to hand mortal combat never reaches the fist striking level. Usually it is some variation of "fix bayonettes." Okinawan weapons training is worthwhile.

And Daniel Day-Lewis gave Di Caprio a decent tutorial in knife fighting in Gangs Of New York.

Firearms, knives, clubs, cord, teeth . . . when you're in the meat.

My hammer-axe stays by my side.

I said Chinese TMA's don't work in real life combat situations. Find one quote where I stated that "every element" sucks. I didn't.

I said they don't work, and they're gay.

Can you find one example of a Chinese TMA that utilizes a straight punch? Yes. Could you then turn around and haughtily proclaim AH HA!!!! Chinese TMA's DO work! because you saw a boxer utilize the jab. Yes.

Did you draw an intellectually honest conclusion? No. Straight punches are a staple of most forms of hand-to-hand combat, and developed concurrently and independently over time across every continent.

So yeah. You can go and do your damnedest to try and find a similarity between one particular technique found in Wing Chun, and then try to connect it to a technique you've seen employed in a real fight, and come back here and bandy it about. But it will be a tenuous connection at best, and it will reek of straw clutching.

What you can do to really impress me, is find a technique unique to Wing Chun and then show me where it was successfully employed in a fight. Then you'll have something.


My point exactly. There is no debate when you continue to use modal verbs like "May" in your argument. Substantiate your claim or let it go. There is or there isn't. There is no may.


That's the great thing about theories, isn't it? We can all have one. But until you prove your theory, it is no more valid than any other theory floating around.

But again. Since I have never seen Wing Chun or Jeet Kun Do employed successfully in a real life combat situation, I will continue to maintain my stance that Chinese TMA's are NOT effective in combat. As I have seen numerous fights testifying to that fact, and none disputing it.

If you're saying 100% Chinese TMA sucks because there isn't any in MMA, fine. But again, you could say the same thing about boxing because there isn't a fighter that goes straight into an MMA with ONLY boxing (Both James Toney and Ray Mercer trained in takedowns, groundwork, etc.). If you're going to say it sucks because you haven't seen it work in any real life combat situations, then that's true for you. It really only takes one example to prove your entire stance wrong. The biggest problem I have with your stance is that you're claiming an absolute truth based individual experiences.

EVERY TIME I see this damn thread I think about that song from the 80's....

EVERY BODY WANG CHUNG TONIGHT

Again, you're trying to pigeon-hole my argument. I said they don't work in real life combat situations. MMA was only one example. K-1, Sanshou tournaments, street fights, these are all other areas where I've seen Chinese TMA's fail.


You're better than this, Snoop.

Boxing has been incorporated into MMA, and everybody knows it. There isn't a a professional fighter in the world who doesn't train in boxing.

Boxing, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Wrestling. There isn't one professional MMA fighter on the planet who doesn't train intensively in these areas.

Judo, Sumo, Aikido, Karate, and Muay Thai are also trained by a good number of fighters as well. These are all TMA's that have been successfully incorporated into MMA. And they are all Japanese, with the exception of Muay Thai.

I will put the challenge to you again. (Outside of local Chinese Sanshou "tournaments") find me one fighter who uses Wing Chun as his primary style, or even claims to use it as an auxiliary art, and then proceeds to actually use this art in combat.


Then provide the example, dude! Please!


What else should I base my stance on, if not experience? I've never seen Chinese TMA's work in real life, and everyone I've talked to is of the same opinion. Check this thread out for Christ's sake. How many people have you seen attesting to that same fact?

I'm not just basing my stance on my experience, but on the collective experiences of people that have followed/practiced martial arts for years/decades.

I mean, what would you have me do? Base my stance on skin color, nationality, or familial roots, and then present counter arguments as if they were based on fact?

The fact is, you don't follow martial arts-oriented combat, and you don't practice martial arts yourself. So what are YOU basing YOUR argument on? Hurt feelings and a claim that Chinese TMA's may work, even though you've neither seen nor provided any evidence to the contrary; and that Chinese TMA's could have influenced some of the other martial arts that ARE being used, even though, again, you have provided no evidence to support such a claim.

Again, bro. Come at me with something concrete or don't come at all. The onus is not on me to prove Wing Chun sucks. It's on you to prove it doesn't.

The fact that you aren't bringing anything substantive to support your claims is only hurting your argument.

Wang Zi Ping.

Liu Yun Qiao

What I've understood about TMA's is that many are designed to seriously injure the opponent. From my experience with Aikido, we don't do competition because someone could get killed or seriously hurt. There is no middle ground. In MMA, there are boundaries. Those boundaries are designed to protect the people in the cage. Aikido is an art designed to be used in a street fight. Street fights are all out, kill or be killed. I would assume WC is similar in that respect. In the cage, there are no ball strikes, eye gouges, Arm bars that break arms, wrist locks that break wrists, fingerlocks that tear fingers from the bone. All of those things cant be done in MMA. So from the door, sports like boxing, wrestling, Judo and tae kwon do have a decided advantage because they are more point oriented. How would Aikido be transitioned to a point system? Warlord brings up great points. Most TMA's are simply out of their element when introduced to the cage. My opinion is that we haven't really seen TMA's in MMA because they aren't suited for the format.

Also, in reality, does anyone think that Jet Li would come into MMA and dominate the sport?

Aikido, Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Karate, and Sumo have all been incorporated successfully, to one extent or another, into MMA.

You see Aikido/Judo style throws in MMA all the time. See Karo Parisyan and Hidehiko Yosida for examples.

Jiu Jitsu, especially in the form of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, is one of the preeminent staples of the sport. See the Gracies and the Nogueiras for examples.

Karate and Sumo have been employed successfully, with Lyoto Machida perhaps being the most well known example. The Karate aspect of Machida's game is obvious. The Sumo aspect may not be to the casual observer. I'll post gifs later, but Machida uses Sumo as part of his takedown defense, and also for throwing his opponents to the ground.

Chinese TMA's don't work because they favor style over substance. I'm sorry. Thinking you're gonna go in and nail someone with a tiger punch, coupled with a flying, spinning, gravity-defying, grass-hopping cricket kick is just complete and utter horseshit.

It's almost as laughable as those guys coming into the early UFC's using "Ninjitsu" as their style.

Just hardcore gay stuff.



Besides Chinese people? No. Except for maybe those guys I described earlier.

There are some good, intelligent posts in this thread and it's a good different debate.


I've been around MA all my life. I started in Karate when I was 5 and have done a whole host of various TMA's alongside my Kickboxing and Boxing training.


I gotta admit that Chinese TMA have never took my fancy. I've always been one for sports - competing in what I train in. I don't really train just for fun (although I enjoy it), I train for it to work in sports.

That's one of the reason I stopped doing Kata in my Karate. I wanted to fight and the Kata (although some people said it would help my balance, strenght, etc, etc) just got in the way.


The thing I've experienced with Chinese TMA's from the session's I've been to is that there is very little sparring and actual fighting done.

Even in Karate when I was a kid, I used to spar with the smallest gloves on and get a bloody nose. Straight away that told me what worked and what didn't. It was real.


I've actually got my basic instructor's certificate to teach JKD - but again, very little actual scrapping was done.

I've been to BJJ classes, Karate classes and they ALL get you pretty much spparring/fighting straight away. At least to a certain degree - never had that with Chinese TMA's. Again, it's down to the instructor, but if they've never done it, they won't teach it.


All this 'it's too dangerous to practice in sparing' is a load of shit, imo.


To get something to work you must practice, practice and practice. How do you practice death moves properly without killing people?!?!

The people who say that are normally skinny nerds who haven't got the balls to glove up and fight so they get out of it by saying, 'my moves would leave you dead if my Shaolin finger jab connected so I'd better not fight just in case'.


Pfffft.

To be fair, i have no doubt that someone skilled in a chinese style could fuck up your average dude on the street. The same qualities employed in more serious fighting styles are required. Flexibility, precision, speed etc... and the crazy shit would no doubt take people off gaurd making them think twice about fighting

Case in point



Soon as that dude drops into his stance his opponent thought to himself "what the fuck is going on here"... soon as he started 2nd guessing his commitent to the fight it was all over

Great and funny post!! LOL!

Perhaps this is a more clear example. This is boxing vs karate:

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F...p;v=rNxaNAm_fWQ

Fuck it. You win by verbal suffocation.

No but in all truth, now you're starting to argue with more reason rather than emotion, at least from my point of view. I mean you definitely know more about MMA than I do, and from what I know, I don't see much Chinese TMA involved, but there are probably elements incorporated into the fighting styles, just like boxing is incorporated. I just don't think you can say an entire system sucks based off two measures (live fights and MMA), but you know, at this point it's kind of a agree to disagree kind of thing.

My martial arts background is boxing (if you consider that martial arts), a bit of Taekwondo, some Judo, trained with a muay thai kickboxer, Wing Chun master, Brazilian Capoeria, (and like I said, the Wing Chun guy kicked everyone's ass) and reading damn near everything about Bruce Lee's martial arts philosophy. I'll admit that a lot of my argument is based off Bruce Lee's work, but I noticed he did incorporate many elements from Chinese TMA into his fighting style (not saying he said it was the best, but he took parts from it). But from my experience and what I've witnessed in real life, I haven't found Chinese TMAs as completely useless.

What's your opinion on this?

This appears to be a very experienced TMA fighter against a relatively inexperienced kick boxer.

Well, because you hung in so long, I'll leave you with this.

Aussielad is right in that, in a case featuring Wing Chun versus a regular dope off the street with zero fighting skills, it's likely as not that Wing Chun wins out. If that makes you feel any better.

As for your second post, I'm not sure if you posted a video or not. If you did, I sadly request that you summarize the video for me, as nearly every website in the world that hosts videos (ala youtube) has been censored and blocked here in China. Except, of course, for the local shitty Chinese sites that host local shitty Chinese vids.

Li Shu Wen.

The same way you practice shooting someone in the head.

The Wing Chun guy was very disciplined and stayed at home until he saw an opening. The kickboxer fell into a trap and was fighting very linear. Wing Chun is very good at linear. If the kickboxer provided lateral movement, the Wing Chun guy would have been striking at air. Wing Chun doesnt do angles and lateral movement very well. Keep stepping to the side and force him to reset. All of his strikes are right out front.