QUOTE (Warlord @ Oct 21 2010, 02:15 AM)
No. I said they don't work in real life combat situations. MMA was my example, just because I thought street fighting and those gay ass Sanshou tournaments would make poor examples, as they feature little to zero real skill.
But I guess I should use them now, since you've pigeon-holed my initial post.
As I said, I've seen a ton of Sanshou (Sanda) "competitions" out here. These so-called fighting tournaments feature various styles of fighting which fall under the category of "wushu," and include the aforementioned Wing Chun style. The fights are laughably ridiculous. At best they resemble K-1, which is straight boxing plus knees and kicks. Not the fucking weird-ass flying death punches, tiger claw nerve point strikes, monkey knees, and any other ridiculous shit the gay Chinese have come up with.
At worst, as I stated before, it turns into a bitch fest, full of slaps, gay open handed punches to the chest, and other displays of faggotry. Pure fail on every level.
Nah man, I'm not trying to pigeon-hole your argument. You just only mentioned MMA, which is actually probably the most accurate example you could use. I mean unless you're out there challenging kung-fu masters to back alley brawls, I wouldn't know how else you could evaluate its effectiveness. But I'm just saying there are probably other reason why you don't see much Chinese martial arts in MMA outside of them just sucking.
I'm still gonna stay away from street fighting, unless you really want to take it there. But I've seen a TON of "fights" outside on the streets (and in the subways, shopping malls, McDonalds, etc...) and never did I see some dumb Chinese dude go into, like, a praying mantis style or some shit and whip some ass. It ALWAYS disintegrated into two dudes (DUDES!) rolling around on the ground pulling hair and accidentally scratching each other with their long, dirty-ass fingernails.
To me this sounds like you just saw two Chinese guys that suck at fighting. You're assuming they're trained in some kind of Chinese martial arts. Not all Chinese people take martial arts dammit!
No. Because boxing is one of the MANY styles that has been incorporated into MMA successfully. Every fighter trains boxing to improve their stand-up.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most of the original UFC fighters/founders attribute the idea of MMA to Bruce Lee? Isn't the whole concept of MMA based on his theory of Jeet Kune Do? How do you even know that ZERO elements of Chinese martial arts aren't incorporated into MMA?
You would have been better off with Ray Mercer
But seriously man, shitty example. Toney's MMA debut only further the notion that "boxing sucks" in MMA.
But, as stated, boxing as a style has been incorporated into MMA training. And can be effective in a real-life combat situations. From MMA, to Kick Boxing, to street fighting.
There could be. But only one REAL reason. Because their style doesn't work. Period. Every time you get a competition with a Chinese dude using wushu against some foreign style, the excuses ALWAYS come flying down the pike later about how the Chinese dude only lost because the evil foreigners poisoned him before the bout or some equally gay non-sense. And I wish I was joking about that.
There could be a ton of reasons. I mean how many Chinese athletes do you see in any sport outside of China? Why haven't we seen any Chinese boxers? There is literally like 2 NBA stars from China and that's it. Political reasons and country relations could definitely play a factor as to why we don't see more Chinese athletes in general.
1.) What philosophy? Dude, get that noble kung fu warrior image you've seen in the movies out of your head. We're talking about a country where people visit Buddhist temples to pray for wealth, power, money, love, and long life. And if you know anything at all about Buddhism, you will know how laughably stupid it is to see people praying for such bullshit.
Well I mean philosophy in ANY fighting art. I know plenty of boxers that said they stopped fighting in the streets after they learned how to box. The competitions of boxing, kickboxing or MMA are just structured differently than other martial tournaments like Kung Fu or Taekwondo. They're definitely less contact in the latter sports, so maybe they'd be less effective, but I think it's due to the conditioning, not the art itself. But I'm not even gonna touch the topic of religion in China cuz I don't know what the fuck is going on there with that.
Chinese Wushu (including Kung Fu) is just another propaganda machine for the Chinese government to pretend as if though the P.R.C still has some sort of connection to China's long dead historical culture. Hey kids, wanna visit the world famous Shaolin Temple, where the real Kung Fu masters train? Well, now you can! Book your train tickets to ZhengZhou today! And for 25RMB (about $3), you can walk right through the temple, witness our powerful warriors in training, visit their temples, and buy our souvenirs! So what are you waiting for? Book those tickets today!
And if you're real lucky, you'll see some Buddhist monks there too, walking around the temple playing PSP and listening to their mp3 players! Yay! And the best part is, if you interrupt them politely, they might offer to sell you some real genuine prayer books you can use in the temple to pray for money and success! Yay!
Dude, Chinese Wushu has been around WAAAAAAY longer than the PRC ever came into existence. They might be using it to their advantage, but they sure didn't create it for it's purposes. Seriously man, don't let your hate make you forget history.
2.) Those idiots fight in competitions all the time. Chinese ones, that feature wushu only, and no other forms of combat. NOT because those styles are so dangerous that they are lethal to normal human beings, which is what most of those dumb idiots will tell you. It is simply because, as I said, those styles: Do. Not. Work. Period.
Until we start seeing Chinese martial artists getting fucked up in MMA (which could very well happen), I don't think you can attribute it to that one reason. Just because they don't show up doesn't mean it's because they suck. I mean that's limiting logic.
I just think a lot of your opinion is based off your bad personal experiences in the country.
I'm not just posting from emotions here, brother. I'm also using logic. Chinese TMA's absence from real life combat situations is not an accident. It is a fact. I mean, I know saving face is important and all to Chinese culture, but you need to let this one go. Flying death punches aren't real. They don't work. Nerve strikes are pure fantasy. And you'll never see a kung fu master employing the praying mantis style successfully in a fight. I mean, I guess to some people it is pretty sweet to imagine such things, but wishing something does not make it so.
Truth be told man, I have way more of an American culture than Chinese culture. I already told you, I barely have any Chinese friends because some of them have this ass backwards thinking about racial/class superiority. But it doesn't mean everything about the culture sucks.
I mean have you actually trained
in any of these martial arts? It just sounds like the basis of your argument is dependent on what styles are present in MMA and the gayness of Chinese street fights and one type of martial art tournament. It really doesn't sound like you have much of the theory behind it, unless you were just holding back.
All I know is this. I trained for 3 months with a Wing Chun master in Guatemala (he was a white dude by the way) and that mofo literally had forearms that felt like steel pipes and used to whoop on people in sparring. Presumably if these Chinese martial artists, or even movie stars, like Jet Li or Donnie Yen are such panzies, you'd believe you could take them correct? Otherwise, you'd fight worse than some panziass school girls.