So I've done this "education" called the Landmark Forum, sometimes referred to as "The Forum", once known as Erhard Seminar Training, formally Mind Dynamics and has been accused of cult-like brainwashing by many experts. For whatever reason, I was extremely intrigued by the effects it had on my mind and signed up for the "Advanced Course". This last weekend was my "Advanced Course" and that shit literally FUCKED with my mind. I'm talking 14 hours a day for three days straight of just abusive psychological and identity breakdowns, then building people back up with an identity in Landmark. It was seriously one of the scariest experiences I've ever had in my life. I say this because it was frightful how easily people are manipulated and the power of group think. The first seminar I attended, I stood up against what the leader was saying and I literally felt that if she had told them to kill me, they would have. It's absolutely fucking insane shit like this exists.

Read more about it here:

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/...hp/t-30430.html

http://www.cameronfreeman.com/index.cfm?Fu...mp;SectionID=82 (My leader was Charlene Afremow, mentioned at the end.)

Has anyone heard or done these types of things before?

So the pontoon leader took cult training.....go figure.

So the pontoon leader took cult training.....go figure.

LOL...he should have taken it before creating that embarrassment to pontoons.

LOL.

You have pretty much single handily pulled the pontoon apart, and then come back for the boot while it is down, lol.

Good work.

Na na na na na na na na LEADER!!!!



Sorry Snoop, couldnt resist poking a little more fun! Fair play to you for having an open mind. But maybe best stay away from crazy cults in future mate!

I guess I can't get my name unattached to the Pontoon, but the funnier thing is that you guys are the ones that can't get over it.

And Fitz, the only reason JD had such an effect on it, it's because I respect the shit out of his opinion. Most of the other posters don't have that power, at least not for me.

Thanks, Snoop...that is good of you. Likewise on your opinion...except when it comes to that defunct pontoon.

He's already weakening you with his cult mind tricks...don't fall for it JD!

I'm onto you Snoop...

I'm glad you didn't fall victim to that cult shit, Snoop. It's pretty wild that you can make money from just talking bullshit about life.

Unless you guys have gone through this type of shit, you can only speak from a point of speculation. Granted, I'm at 26 year old kid still unsure of the world, and I'll be the first to admit there's still shit I haven't figured out in my life, but I was still able to see beyond this thing. It's not that the other people are weak, it's that the people are at a weak point in their life. Truth be told, if I didn't have boxing and meditation in my life, I might have ended up like one of these quacky fucks.

most importantly, about how if you can recognize the system, you can manipulate it to your advantage.

Surely you mean boxing and medication Snoop?

That's basically it. I mean they had this dumbass 24 yr old girl believing she could make $1 million in one year and open an orphanage in Africa. They just try to propagate this idea that you're unstoppable, you can achieve anything, you can live your dreams, etc. It's kind of sad actually, seeing how desperate people will get to achieve what they created as "happiness".

But that shit definitely fucked with my head. Apparently the creators of "The Matrix" took this shit and I fucking believe it. I think they made a goddamn movie about it. Now I get paranoid that EVERYTHING is a fucking Matrix and keep contemplating on these endless existential debates of whether or not we can ever escape one.

If anything, I learned about people, how they can be exploited in vulnerable points of their life/personality, and most importantly, about how if you can recognize the system, you can manipulate it to your advantage. Yeah, I think that's the thing that scares me most.

That's the fucking gospel man!

People call it The Game...that name is probably THE perfect description for life. Everything is a game...a puzzle...all you have to do is figure out how to play it.

My sister got caught in the EST web deep in a previous millenium. I was considerably younger than you and in transition from the USMC to pseudo private enterprise. My sister was getting all fucked up, IMO, so I decided to infiltrate the organization in San Francisco. Shortly after that they were exposed by the media and entangled in a slew of legal action.

They morphed like an amoeba into multiple, nearly identical, entities.

My other sister got attracted into one of those amoeba years later. I think it was called Frog Prince or something like that. I decided to infiltrate this organization, coincidentally in San Francisco again. I started a bit of an insurrection by taking control of a significant percentage of the zombies.

They made the fatal error of threatening to hold my sister hostage.

These groups utilize methods very similar to the USMC boot camp process. Break down the subject by erasing the individual identity. Then rebuild the individual's consciousness as a cohesive piece of the whole.

Once you control your fear, you are ready to play (rather than just be a prop) in The Game.

That's the fucking gospel man!

People call it The Game...that name is probably THE perfect description for life. Everything is a game...a puzzle...all you have to do is figure out how to play it.

Nah man, "The Game" is another one of these seminar brainwashing things but the premise is on how to pick up women. That shit works the same way too.

But I get what you're saying. Like Smarty said: player or a prop.

I'm familiar with that book. Though it's true with getting laid, I was talking more about day-to-day type of shit. Working with people that are hard to work with. Getting egomaniacs to not just listen to your ideas, but to actually use them. Not just at work, but in everyday conversations.

Dale Carnegie wrote an excellent book a hundred years ago called "How to win friends and influence people." It's a great read. It ties in stories from history to help explain points...shit that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln did. Anyway, the premise is basically, kill them with kindness. Phrase things in ways that make people think that your ideas are their own. Make people WANT to work for you. Have integrity, and fess up when you make a mistake. Don't belittle people when they fall short, make them feel empowered.

These are things that everybody knows, but few exercise. It's like knowing the combination to a puzzle, and being surprised that trying something different doesn't solve it.

I'm familiar with that book. Though it's true with getting laid, I was talking more about day-to-day type of shit. Working with people that are hard to work with. Getting egomaniacs to not just listen to your ideas, but to actually use them. Not just at work, but in everyday conversations.

Dale Carnegie wrote an excellent book a hundred years ago called "How to win friends and influence people." It's a great read. It ties in stories from history to help explain points...shit that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln did. Anyway, the premise is basically, kill them with kindness. Phrase things in ways that make people think that your ideas are their own. Make people WANT to work for you. Have integrity, and fess up when you make a mistake. Don't belittle people when they fall short, make them feel empowered.

These are things that everybody knows, but few exercise. It's like knowing the combination to a puzzle, and being surprised that trying something different doesn't solve it.

I began reading that book, though haven't read in a few weeks, but I started that one and probably should read again soon before I leave it too long, lol.

It's a good intro into that world, but if you REALLY wanna get into it, check out "The Blueprint" by Tyler Durden. It's a video you can probably torrent. That shit is intense.

I will definitely check it out. Is "The Blueprint" a book as well as a video? Or just a video? Will download it, maybe tonight, lol.

Nah it's just a video. Be warned, the thing is over 20 hrs long, but again, it depends on how much you want to get into it. There's a good book that addresses similar things called "Secrets of the Alpha Male" by Carlos Xuma. I think it can be downloaded as well.

It all depends on what you're looking for. If you just want lines and dialogues, there's books like "The Game", "Mystery Method" or "Attraction is not a choice", but if you want to go deeper as to why those things work, I would check out things like Blueprint or anything by RSD.

And yes, I realize that I look like a pathetic nut throughout this entire thread.

Is that the one by Neil Strauss or something? Read that a few years ago, definitely interesting, and I thought it was a good read.

By the way, I scrolled up. Is blueprint about life situations? Or what 'The Game' was about (a pickup artist)?

I was responding to Spyder originally and was commenting on the Dale Carnegie book (though I think you thought I was talking about "The Game"). If so, doesn't matter, cause it will probably still be interesting to watch. I am reading the Carnegie book currently, but haven't read it in a while. I read "The Game" years ago. Though haven't read the 30 day one you mentioned. Is it worth picking up?
I think I thought blueprint was a different type of video, as I was talking about the Dale Carnegie book, but I will download it anyways.

Ah, I see. Well "The Game in 30 Days" is kind of like Dale Carnegie in action. Actually both Landmark and The Game take principles from Dale Carnegie. It's all the same shit really. Look people in the eye, use their name, compliment something they're wearing, etc. What I noticed after I started picking up women, getting numbers n crap, is that ALL my social interactions started to improve, from getting free shit to business relationships. The 30 day challenge is pretty fun, as long as your up for potentially humiliating yourself once in a while.

The Blueprint is like deep identity topics. For instance, when you start doing the routines or whatever, you'll find these things called "sticking points", which are situations or routines that you can't execute and you can't really figure out why. Usually it's tied to some trauma that happened in your past or some unconscious messaging that's been communicated through societal norms. The Blueprint is based on a concept of self-actualization, pretty much making the mind aware of the self and learning how to operate from the self rather than the ego (which is based on external forces). I mean I hope you're not just fucking with me to expose how much of a geek I am, but in all truth that shit is a complete mind fuck if you're really into those kind of things.

The Game was the only book I have read of that kind, but I enjoyed the book. I have basically liked a lot of things of the mind/behaviour of people. I am a very observant person, and like to watch how people act. If I'm out eating somewhere or something, I may glance at tables or something, watch people and try guess what type of person they are, or the type of relationship people have, lol. People enjoy watching the discovery and watching animals in the wild and how they behave. You can have that when ever you like, with humans, lol. Just listening to people is part of it, you can sometimes tell more about someone by other things.
Nah, I wasn't fucking with you, I have just been interested in anything involving mind and behaviour. I read a book on body language, I think I mentioned some where recently, that I was reading a book on optimistic and pessimistic people.
The other book that I read was a book on losing weight. I didn't need to lose weight at the time, and it was designed for really overweight people. But I think it is good for anyone, regardless of size. If people are interested in this type of thing. It was called "The Gabriel Method", and it's principle is that diets don't work because when you diet, you are depriving yourself of food and your body treats it as a famine. You train yourself to want to eat the right foods, because you want to. A diet doesn't do that, as it feels like you deprive yourself and body thinks it's in starvation. I don't know if it works or not, as I haven't put it in practice, though I eventually will take some parts out of it. But definitely at least interesting.
Something like this will probably explain it better.

http://www.everydiet.org/diet/gabriel-method

That sounds like some Karen Horney shit. She came up with the "real" self vs the "ideal" self philosophy. You might find her interesting.

I subscribe to some of her things...mainly the one I mentioned...but I'm more of a Behaviorist with Humanistic tendancies. B.F. Skinner, Carl Rogers, Abraham Maslow...those guys will open your mind to why people do what they do. Fuck Freud and his every boy wants to secretly kill his father and fuck his mother philosophy. Life experiences is where it's at.

After I started doing this whole "Game" thing, I started noticing ALOT about human behavior. I mean you can pretty much gauge a person's level of confidence simply from the way they stand. But there are these things called IOI's (Indicators of Interest), which are "indicators" of when a girl has been hooked by the conversation (the hook point). Then there's this concept of "kino escalation" where you pinpoint the exact moment of when to start using physical touch to "escalate" the interaction. I mean all of this is tied to academic studies of how human touch affects communication. I think there was one study where they asked someone a question and it was statistically significant that more people answered "yes" when the tester touched their arm while asking the question. I know I sound like a super creepy guy now.

There's another book, "Never Be Lied to Again" which is a great resource to read people's intentions by looking in their eyes. I mean for me the goal was to be a better overall communicator and develop a sense of bullshit in people's behavior, and hey, if you can get laid once in a while in the process, why the fuck not right?

Thanks man, I'll check her out, along with the other guys you mentioned. It sounds like you're pretty knowledgeable in this type of thing. All the shit that I'm reading/watching/doing is based off these scholars you mentioned.

Like I said earlier...at one point I was a psych major, but later changed it to my outside concentration when I realized that making TV was a lot more fun than listening to people bitch.

I still really enjoy the subject, but I didn't want to make it my career.

What is it that you do in TV bro?

You are in Jeresy Boy's, aren't you?

Though seriously, interesting to hear, and sounds like you know what you are talking about. Still relatively a new reader, and interested in this type of stuff as well. Any specific books you recommend from the names mentioned that I should look into?

I'd start with B.F. Skinner. He's pretty much the grand-daddy of Behaviorist Theory. He wrote a lot about everything, but for something along the lines of what we're talking about...check out his book Verbal Behavior. Noam Chomsky HATED the book, but later eased off his criticism when people started experimenting with the theories...and found them to be accurate. lol

I love it when smart people look like idiots.