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glennhallet
There isnít a person out there who hasnít had ďThe DreamĒ. The dream is an idea that sounds almost too good to be true when you first realize it. It could be something as simple as two buddies right out of high school that decide to get an apartment together.

It is agreed that there will be partying, plenty of drinking and more than likely, very little time for sleep. Good times are going to be plentiful.

But once the lease is signed reality sets in. One notices that sleep is a good thing. Partying is fine, on weekends, but you have to work during the week. Your attitude changes, acting grown up with a savings account and having a nice place becomes a priority.

Now you find yourself waking up from the dream or having your dream morph into a nightmare. You still have almost a year left on the lease. You have no option but to make the best of it and hope that all of your other friends and family donít give you the old, ďI told you soĒ.

Dreams, at least the kind we fantazise about, usually have happy endings. Reality isnít always so kind.

Welcome to reality Showtime.

The Super Six Tournament was a dream of the Showtime brass that quickly started to have the makings of a nightmare.

The premise was to take the best six Super Middleweights and put them in a format based on points for their performance. It sounded good, but immediately people noticed a few things that didnít seem quite right.

First, Lucian Bute was one of the top Super Middleweights in the world, but was conspicuiously absent. Showtime brass said the Bute turned down the chance. Buteís camp said that they were never asked, at which point Showtime admitted so much. Could it have been that Bute was close to fighting on HBO and Showtime wasnít pleased? If that was true, just say so.

Then there was the addition of Andre Dirrell. Dirrell was ranked behind some other notable absentees and had a reputation for, at times, resembling an amateur boxer.

It seems that the bad has outweighed the good in the tournament.

Some of the bright spots: Andre Ward has established himself as a star and now appears to be the tournament favorite. Arthur Abraham and Jermain Taylor engaged in a good fight that ended in explosive fashion. Carl Froch fought Dirrell in front of a boisterous pro Froch crowd. Froch and Mikkel Kessler went back and fourth before Kessler prevailed to get himself into the win column.

Now the bad: The Ward-Kessler fight was marred by constant headbutts. Dirrellís running and clinching frustrated Froch to the point that the fight was almost unwatchable. Taylorís violent kayo loss forced him to withdraw from the tournament. Arthur Abraham was DQíd for hitting Dirrell when he was obviously down. Allan Green replaced Taylor and was the closest thing to a no show that a fighter could be, his performance was an embarrassment.

And things are continuing to unravel for Showtime. Kessler has left the Six because of eye trouble. Participants are complaining that Ward seems to have all of his fights on his home turf. Dirrell and Ward couldnít settle on a site and now Dirrell says that he is still suffering the effects of the Abraham foul.

Now Glen Johnson has been added to the Six and Ward is set to fight Sakio Bika, in you guessed it, a non Super Six fight.

The dream was nice, but it is flat out time to pull the plug on this tourney nightmare. We have been able to get great matchups during the last year, but the problem with the tourney is the format.

This isnít the amateurs and we donít need a point system. My belief has always been that you ask the top eight and have a single elimination. You would have been guaranteed good match ups and quickly eliminated some competitors. Would you have had bad decisions and complaints? Of course, but that is boxing.

Keep it at six entrants and you could have had a bracket format. Round one: Number 1 and 2 seeds get a bye. Number 3 fights number 6 and number 4 takes on number 5. Losers are done.

Number 1 then fights the lowest remaining seed and 2 fights the higher remaining seed.

Winners then fight for the championship. Easy, simple and quick.

It is time for Showtime to pull the plug. Let Froch and Abraham fight, it should be a great fight. Let the winner fight Ward and call it a day. No need to add Johnson and even though it isnít a Six bout, what happens should the hard hitting Bika beat or kayo Ward? Will the tournament lose all of itís luster at that point?

Super Six, you had a good life, but sometimes you have to let go of your dreams, especially when they turn into nightmares.



Glenn Wilson





SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (glennhallet @ Oct 21 2010, 07:24 PM) *
Ward is set to fight Sakio Bika.





Glenn Wilson

Nice post.

Should be a great fight.
Hittman25
quit cryin
slapbangwhallop
this is why a league format doesnt work in boxing and it should be a knockout
Method
Called it months in advance.
Maxy
Either way, there has still been some quality fights that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the super six and there ain't nobody gonna tell me that these very same fighters would have entered into a knockout tourney cos that shit just don't happen.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Maxy @ Oct 27 2010, 05:23 PM) *
Either way, there has still been some quality fights that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the super six and there ain't nobody gonna tell me that these very same fighters would have entered into a knockout tourney cos that shit just don't happen.


I really can't see how people go out of their way to hate the Super Six. This forced, other than Taylor, the top six fighters in a division to fight each other. Is that happening a lot lately? No, not at all. Do I care that the tournament has its downfalls? I could give a fuck less, Showtime tried to give the boxing fans two years of great super middleweight fights and create a champion of the division.
JLUVBABY
we watched the super six ruin what was left of jermain taylor... lol...
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Oct 27 2010, 09:55 PM) *
Try spot wrong.


Would you rather have them fighting fringe top 10 fighters and bums? The Super Six didn't work out as planned but Showtime made the effort to give you five of the six top fighters at 168 fighting each other. I'm willing to bet that none of them would have fought without the tournament.


QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Oct 27 2010, 09:51 PM) *
we watched the super six ruin what was left of jermain taylor... lol...


He messed his life up the day he started repping the Razorbacks.
Maxy
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Oct 27 2010, 09:55 PM) *
Try spot wrong.


I've already read your back and forth with Fitz and I completely disagree with you. Hasn't been a division to match super middleweight for top fights over the same period of time, which, IMO, says it all really.

Shame it failed.

On a side note what happened to team fight hype? I've been banished.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Oct 29 2010, 02:05 AM) *
It was destined to fail. An eight man single elim would have been finishing up about now, with success.


It did not take a rocket scientist to figure out the super six would not pan out as they planned. Me personally I do not like any type of tourney in pro boxing. Way too many fighters are unreliable to have a structured tourney.

No offense Beardo, but I do not like your idea of an 8 man single elimination tourney either. Unfortunately I am having trouble wording how and why I feel that way. Like how would you fairly seed them and match them up? There would be too many headaches and fighters bitching about who they fight and location and all that other bullshit. A fighter that loses right away could say... but I could have beat that other guy who advanced. It is hard enough to make fights today, let alone putting all the top dogs in a tourney bracket. Way too many variables that can and will go wrong and ruin any type of tourney. Just my take. Please don't chop my head off and kill me with your scary outbursts that go way beyond my comprehension level, lol.
The Original MrFactor
Although I wasnt crazy about the format playing out over 2 years. I like the concept of getting the best guys or even the most popular guys in a division to fight each other. How many of these fights would we have gotten in 2 years, had it not been for this format. I love Ward/Kessler, Kessler/Froch, Abraham/Taylor, Abraham/Dirrell. Those were all very good, dramatic fights. I'm still looking forward to Froch/Abraham and Ward against the winner. The last 3 standing need to fight. I think we're better off after having this tournament than not. I was entertained...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ Oct 29 2010, 05:28 AM) *
Yet Smarty still says we are wrong.

I would say the majority of people did think the format wasn't good, but pretty much everyone but you thinks the division is still better off than if the tournament didn't happen all together.
You are just looking at it in a simple way. You are looking at it as the tournament failed so it sucked. Most people are looking at it as good fights happened in a 12 month period. Let's say all those fights happened exactly how they have, but it was never a tournament to begin with. I don't think anybody would be bitching, and probably praising these guys for taking fights like this. The tournament is what made those fights happen, they were good fights regardless if it was in a tournament or not. Boxing isn't usually fought in tournament form for example like tennis is. In the end, whether it's a tournament or not, they are fights. Nobody looks back and says Hopkins kicked Trinidad's ass in the final. People look back at it, and say Hopkins beat the shit out of Trinidad. Obviously people are aware it was inside a tournament, but it really isn't a big focus point (from my experience). The tournament doesn't matter, the fights are what matter. It produced good fights and I don't know why you are still arguing the point.


See Fitz you are wrong, let me explain why in so many reasons.

1- Ward beats Kessler in a total mismatch which looked like a sparring session. Kessler looked like shit, and I had to suffer through 12 rounds of it. He didn't win a single round.

2-Abraham KO's Taylor in the last round with one right hand. Another horrid fight where the gun shy Taylor refused to throw anything but a shitty jab all night. Again I had to sit through 12 rounds of garbage till the robot landed a hard right hand to the glass jaw of Taylor.

3-Froch beat Dirrell in a very controversial decision. Froch looked like a bum, and Dirrell looked more like a track star/model who did not want to get hit in the face. This 12 round fight was so damn sloppy with no real effective punches landed most of the night. Terrible again I had to sit through 12 rounds of this crap.

4-Ward beats Green in another sparring session. Total bore fest with limited shitty Green. Yet another 12 rounds of wasted time. Oh yeah Green replaced the mental midget Taylor for this fight.

5-Kessler beats Froch in a close fight. Both looked sub par and again, yep another 12 freaking rounds we had to see.

6- Dirrell beats Abraham by DQ. Not too bad of a scrap, Dirrell grew some balls and Abraham was exposed. What ruined this fight was the dirty tactics by Abraham with the sucker punch. We were robbed of a possible thrilling finish.

7-Dirrell now drops out cause of I guess trauma or something, so we lose Dirrell-Ward.

8-Glenn Johnson is in, who happens to be a very old 175 pounder.

9- Bika fighting Ward next I think.

Maybe it's just me, but this super six tourney sucked. But yes it had good initial intentions I will admit.
Method
I knew the tourney would fail as a tourney. I was unmoved at its announcement, primarily because I thought the division SUCKED. Admittedly, the tourney, and more so, SHO's documentary chronicling the tourney, piqued my interest, and drew me in, but it still doesnt change my opinion of the division and its fighters all that much. Key takeaway from it all? Andre Ward is the one to pay attention to, Jermain Taylor needs to call it a career, Allan Green really does SUCK - he's never gonna have a more impressive night than that Coddrington coma, Andre Dirrell cant got 12 hard w a pressure fighter (he was on his bike like a motherfucker in that championship rounds and I believe he would have crumbled - he's a heavier version of Demetrius Hopkins, Carl Froch still sucks moose balls, needs a nose job, but has a chick I would bang, Arthur Abraham has a phat whip, but doesnt measure the size of his living room before ordering expensive furniture.

Bottom line is boxing is too taxing a sport to have that many guys wrapped up in a 2+-year, double eliminator-type tourney, where diff points are awarded for different outcomes, and you have a bevy of promoters involved and all the boxers bitching about venues, turf, etc.

I mean, Dirrell pulls out of fight w Ward, and I cant say w conviction its NOT because of medical reasons, but gun to my head I say its because he likely aint gonna win, knows it, and also knows that if he loses, its a big fucking dent in his career/earnings power. SAME as Carl Froch. This tournament idea is GREAT for fans (as much of a reach as it is to see through to completion, but a dbl eliminator where there isnt much $ at stake unless you win it....there's so much more downside if you suffer losses or are eliminated. Again, though, the division sucks, and who could blame them for giving it the old college try, because before the tourney, nobody gave a fat rat's ass about 168. Best thing about 1-6-8? Welcome to 1-7-5. Now they got all these stand in fighters in fights that mean NOTHING tournament wise.

Best thing to come out of it all is to see my blue collar grunt man Gentleman Glenn get another fight.

Man, I WISH they had 24/7 back when the King staged the Sugar Ray Robinson Middleweight Unification Tournament. Now THAT was a tournament. King controlled all the champs. Historically, he wouldnt let any of the other middleweight champs NEAR Hopkins, as Hopkins would never sign w King. You had Felix Trinidad just mowing guys over. Single elimination. It took about a year. It was fucking AWESOME. All the interviews, videos, sound bytes etc...had you JONES'ing for the fights. I mean, you wanna talk about message boards being on fire. There were some real WARS going on. The Trinididiots were going wild. The boxing world was abuzz.

They could do a nice tourney at 147, 154. Keep it simple.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Oct 29 2010, 06:06 AM) *
See Fitz you are wrong, let me explain why in so many reasons.

1- Ward beats Kessler in a total mismatch which looked like a sparring session. Kessler looked like shit, and I had to suffer through 12 rounds of it. He didn't win a single round.

2-Abraham KO's Taylor in the last round with one right hand. Another horrid fight where the gun shy Taylor refused to throw anything but a shitty jab all night. Again I had to sit through 12 rounds of garbage till the robot landed a hard right hand to the glass jaw of Taylor.

3-Froch beat Dirrell in a very controversial decision. Froch looked like a bum, and Dirrell looked more like a track star/model who did not want to get hit in the face. This 12 round fight was so damn sloppy with no real effective punches landed most of the night. Terrible again I had to sit through 12 rounds of this crap.

4-Ward beats Green in another sparring session. Total bore fest with limited shitty Green. Yet another 12 rounds of wasted time. Oh yeah Green replaced the mental midget Taylor for this fight.

5-Kessler beats Froch in a close fight. Both looked sub par and again, yep another 12 freaking rounds we had to see.

6- Dirrell beats Abraham by DQ. Not too bad of a scrap, Dirrell grew some balls and Abraham was exposed. What ruined this fight was the dirty tactics by Abraham with the sucker punch. We were robbed of a possible thrilling finish.

7-Dirrell now drops out cause of I guess trauma or something, so we lose Dirrell-Ward.

8-Glenn Johnson is in, who happens to be a very old 175 pounder.

9- Bika fighting Ward next I think.

Maybe it's just me, but this super six tourney sucked. But yes it had good initial intentions I will admit.


Man. You have high standards. Part of the reason Kessler/Ward was good to me was because I didnt expect that type of performance from Ward. Ward made me a fan that night. I was excited to see him win. Kessler/Froch was very good fight too. It had lots of action until the very end. Two evenly matched, good champions fought a tough hard contest. Whats not to like about that?
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Oct 29 2010, 06:39 AM) *
Man. You have high standards. Part of the reason Kessler/Ward was good to me was because I didnt expect that type of performance from Ward. Ward made me a fan that night. I was excited to see him win. Kessler/Froch was very good fight too. It had lots of action until the very end. Two evenly matched, good champions fought a tough hard contest. Whats not to like about that?


Though I was mostly serious with what I wrote, my post was more directed at messing with Fitz just for fun.
gravytrain
Showtime would have never got fighters to agree to a single elimination tournament.

caneman
It took too damned long & seems like it has gone on forever & not many fights even happened! Even though it had 6 boxers, it was a far cry from the Middleweight tourney!
gravytrain
The Super Six failed because they gave promoters too much control, plain and simple. It'd nothing to do with format. I'm also wondering how you guys would go about getting any of those guys to agree to a single elim tourney, even double elim. You can say what you want about the Super Six but it tried to bring you 2 years of the best super middles fighting each other in both the United States and Europe. This is a Showtime tournament not a title eliminator.

Feel free to try to show me that one of these cats would have tried to clean up 168 without being obligated to, have fun with that one too.

Maxy
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Oct 30 2010, 04:20 PM) *
The Super Six failed because they gave promoters too much control, plain and simple. It'd nothing to do with format. I'm also wondering how you guys would go about getting any of those guys to agree to a single elim tourney, even double elim. You can say what you want about the Super Six but it tried to bring you 2 years of the best super middles fighting each other in both the United States and Europe. This is a Showtime tournament not a title eliminator.

Feel free to try to show me that one of these cats would have tried to clean up 168 without being obligated to, have fun with that one too.


Bang on.
ViperSniper
I think some may have been asking for too much for it to run flawlessly with no postponed or set backs as it's apart of boxing with or without a 'tournament' being attached to a fight. I think 4 man single elimination tourneys are mostly more efficient and better but in this case the division went a little deeper than just the top 4 ranked fighters which is why the idea to try pull it off was a good idea. Everyone knew it was going to be a long process to begin with which was one of the bigger complaints, but duration in between fights were going to be no longer than usual anyways.

It is a packed division with a variety of close and interesting fights that got some exposure it never had in the past with people enjoying some of the fights that came out of it, along with the debates after each fight. I think while it was on, it was producing for some close fights that had more action that some major PPVs we have gotten in the past. All I care to see in boxing is the best fight the best and if such a failure of a tournament gave us that in a competitive division for a year I'll take that any day over not getting these fights. Nothing is stopping any of these dudes getting it on after wards as there is still scores to be settled in the division.
Jack 1000
QUOTE
Bottom line is boxing is too taxing a sport to have that many guys wrapped up in a 2+-year, double eliminator-type tourney, where diff points are awarded for different outcomes, and you have a bevy of promoters involved and all the boxers bitching about venues, turf, etc.


That's what I think as well. Two plus years for a boxing tournament is too long for it to play out without problems. I think a Round-Robin system could work next time, but the loser gets eliminated. It's tough, but it would make the network get to the result faster. You have four fighters, but this time two runner ups, so that if someone gets sick or injured, the matches can keep going. I would like to see a format similar to this for Showtime's Bantamweight tournament that is being proposed.

The Super Six was a good idea on paper, but there were clinks in how it was executed. The next series will be better, because Showtime, or even HBO if they do one, will be able to learn from some of the drawbacks.

Jack
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