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alaganza
Is it me or does it seem like Showtime consistently puts on the better fights. I know HBO may have more of the household names. But the quality and entertainment value of Showtime just seems better.

I was thinking that would actually be a great tournament. Showtime vs HBO
The best signed fighters at each division for their respective networks battle it out for network supremecy.


If nothing else at least the Klits would get back in HBO's good graces.

Thoughts?
The CEO
Showtime is way better than HBO...they also have Strikeforce...which I personally like better than The UFC.
gravytrain
I think Showtime does a good job with the smaller budget, HBO just offers those couple of fights that everyone really wants to see. I think Showtime is winning right now though, especially since the Super Six is wrapping up and Bute signed with them.
mexi-cutioner
Showtime constantly puts together fights and events the fans want to see, but it's budget doesn't allow for substantial marketing or promotional resources to garner large audiences. HBO on the other hand puts together less interesting fights but the bigger network and better advertising/build up allows for a larger fan base and views.

On average, more people are interested with the cards Showtime puts together, but not as many people watch them. On the other hand, alot of people bitch and complain about HBOs shitty cards, but with the current trend to end off the year (other than Judah vs Matthysse) I think HBO is starting to get the point as they are ending off the year strong with Williams-Martinez II, Katisdis-Marquez, Maidana-Khan and Alexander-bradley and Montiel-Donaire to kick off the new year
Snoop
Your theory was proven correct tonight, that's for sure.
JLUVBABY
Showtime spanked hbo this time... my homie elvers brooks fell asleep in the 10th round of the judah fight... had to tell him he missed judah damn near get iced... lol....
HaydelHammer
I remember when Showtime couldn't hold a candle to HBO boxing....last night they was way more atmosphere and have been for awhile now with showtime vs hbo. I switch between the two when they go head to head and it's like showtime battles are in your living room.

Roy might be able to help them if he stays.
Spyder
AND Showtime has ring card girls...I think this case is closed fellas.
alaganza
When they go head to head I usually DVR HBO and watch Showtime live.
Snoop
HBO is all show and no go. Showtime is the opposite. I just wish Showtime would put on more fights.
Fitz
I think Showtime tends to have the fights for the true boxing fans. HBO seems to be the 'pop music' of all of this. They tend to focus on names to get the simple minded boxing fans interested, and don't always have relevance to the division. Showtime appears to have fights that boxing should be about.

Darchinyan-Mares and Agbeko-Perez double header coming up soon as well on Showtime (I think, as Vic is a Showtime fighter).
Snoop
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 8 2010, 09:49 AM) *
I think Showtime tends to have the fights for the true boxing fans. HBO seems to be the 'pop music' of all of this. They tend to focus on names to get the simple minded boxing fans interested, and don't always have relevance to the division. Showtime appears to have fights that boxing should be about.

Darchinyan-Mares and Agbeko-Perez double header coming up soon as well on Showtime (I think, as Vic is a Showtime fighter).

Exactly. Great fucking analogy.
gravytrain
For a minute I thought Williams/Martinez 2 was a PPV, I was about to cancel my HBO subscription over that shit lol.

Snoop
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 8 2010, 10:04 PM) *
For a minute I thought Williams/Martinez 2 was a PPV, I was about to cancel my HBO subscription over that shit lol.

LOL. But would you really? I know I talk alot of shit about how much we get ass raped by the networks, but I always end up buying the damn PPVs at the end of the day. This boxing addiction is a strong one.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Snoop @ Nov 8 2010, 06:31 PM) *
LOL. But would you really? I know I talk alot of shit about how much we get ass raped by the networks, but I always end up buying the damn PPVs at the end of the day. This boxing addiction is a strong one.


I don't know, I like shows on HBO lol. I usually just stream fights or watch the replays on HBO anyway. It's like a silent protest of the shitty undercards.
Snoop
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 9 2010, 01:07 AM) *
I don't know, I like shows on HBO lol. I usually just stream fights or watch the replays on HBO anyway. It's like a silent protest of the shitty undercards.

HBO has by far THE BEST shows on television. The Wire, Entourage, Treme, Rome, Band of Brothers, Boardwalk Empire, the list goes on and on. But yeah, they're using that as leverage for shitty undercards. The sad thing is, there isn't much we can do about it. Sacrificing these shows is almost too high of a price to pay. LOL.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Snoop @ Nov 8 2010, 07:13 PM) *
HBO has by far THE BEST shows on television. The Wire, Entourage, Treme, Rome, Band of Brothers, Boardwalk Empire, the list goes on and on. But yeah, they're using that as leverage for shitty undercards. The sad thing is, there isn't much we can do about it. Sacrificing these shows is almost too high of a price to pay. LOL.


I can't give up Kenny fuckin' Powers. That and HBO is only like $15 a month. But damn it, HBO boxing does suck some decrepit balls at times.

HBO does give some good free fights too but then they'll have some shitty fight which is really just a favor for someone.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 8 2010, 02:49 AM) *
I think Showtime tends to have the fights for the true boxing fans. HBO seems to be the 'pop music' of all of this. They tend to focus on names to get the simple minded boxing fans interested, and don't always have relevance to the division. Showtime appears to have fights that boxing should be about.

Darchinyan-Mares and Agbeko-Perez double header coming up soon as well on Showtime (I think, as Vic is a Showtime fighter).


Cosign,

When Lou Dibella was running things and prior to Lou, HBO boxing was much better than it is now. Lou knew how to build fights on a fight by fight basis, working with individual promoters for the best fights. Ross Greenberg and Kery Davis don't do that. They look for a "rising star" to sign to a long term contract of mediocre HBO fights looking to build up the manufactured star, often to an undeserved PPV pay-day. They get intimidated when stars like Jones or Floyd Mayweather wanted "least risk" for the "most money" fights. But that's what you get when you sign fighters to multi-fight contracts. HBO's current boxing department thinks that its better to manufacture a "star" that they think is good so Lampley can do the promoting of their long term contract fighter by shaking the pom-poms for him. HBO thinks that the public just wants to go ga-ga over their house fighters, which are now pretty much controlled by Delahoya's Golden Boy Promotions and Al Haymen.

They are intimidated to say no to anything Oscar or Al does because all of their budget, their bread and butter for boxing currently is contingent on trying to make names out of Oscar's and Al's fighters with less of an emphasis on quality matchmaking than in the past.

Showtime did the same OHHH AHHH and Ga-Gaing over Tyson like he could do no wrong when he was on their network. They were in bed with King and his fighters, just like HBO is in bed now with Oscar's and Al's fighters. When Tyson lost, it was Jay Larken who came up with the great idea of moving away from the PPV model for big fights, working with individual promoters on a fight by fight basis to make the big fights happen. Actually, I think when they made Corrales-Castillo II a PPV of a rematch of the greatest action fight probably ever seen, and it bombed financially, Showtime realized what HBO can't get through their thick heads. That PPV is not always the big bonanza that HBO thinks it is, and that the best fights would be better served by simply subscribing to Showtime. Showtime also moving away from one to two main promoters (Delahoya and Haymen) in HBO's case to work individually with selected promoters and fighters to get the fights that the fans want to see.

HBO for the most point puts on the fights that Delaoya and Hayman want them to put on. Showtime puts on the fights that are the most competitive and appealing to the fans.

Jack

PS. HBO has way better movies than Showtime, because they have the bigger budget.
Snoop
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Nov 9 2010, 01:23 AM) *
Cosign,

When Lou Dibella was running things and prior to Lou, HBO boxing was much better than it is now. Lou knew how to build fights on a fight by fight basis, working with individual promoters for the best fights. Ross Greenberg and Kery Davis don't do that. They look for a "rising star" to sign to a long term contract of mediocre HBO fights looking to build up the manufactured star, often to an undeserved PPV pay-day. They get intimidated when stars like Jones or Floyd Mayweather wanted "least risk" for the "most money" fights. But that's what you get when you sign fighters to multi-fight contracts. HBO's current boxing department thinks that its better to manufacture a "star" that they think is good so Lampley can do the promoting of their long term contract fighter by shaking the pom-poms for him. HBO thinks that the public just wants to go ga-ga over their house fighters, which are now pretty much controlled by Delahoya's Golden Boy Promotions and Al Haymen.

They are intimidated to say no to anything Oscar or Al does because all of their budget, their bread and butter for boxing currently is contingent on trying to make names out of Oscar's and Al's fighters with less of an emphasis on quality matchmaking than in the past.

Showtime did the same OHHH AHHH and Ga-Gaing over Tyson like he could do no wrong when he was on their network. They were in bed with King and his fighters, just like HBO is in bed now with Oscar's and Al's fighters. When Tyson lost, it was Jay Larken who came up with the great idea of moving away from the PPV model for big fights, working with individual promoters on a fight by fight basis to make the big fights happen. Actually, I think when they made Corrales-Castillo II a PPV of a rematch of the greatest action fight probably ever seen, and it bombed financially, Showtime realized what HBO can't get through their thick heads. That PPV is not always the big bonanza that HBO thinks it is, and that the best fights would be better served by simply subscribing to Showtime. Showtime also moving away from one to two main promoters (Delahoya and Haymen) in HBO's case to work individually with selected promoters and fighters to get the fights that the fans want to see.

HBO for the most point puts on the fights that Delaoya and Hayman want them to put on. Showtime puts on the fights that are the most competitive and appealing to the fans.

Jack

PS. HBO has way better movies than Showtime, because they have the bigger budget.

Great summary.

Now that I think about it, a lot of the "contenders" of each division, are pretty much introduced to us through some HBO fight. That's also probably why all the PPV undercards are usually always some young prospect from Golden Boy.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Snoop @ Nov 8 2010, 09:18 PM) *
Great summary.

Now that I think about it, a lot of the "contenders" of each division, are pretty much introduced to us through some HBO fight. That's also probably why all the PPV undercards are usually always some young prospect from Golden Boy.


Well, HBO has more money to throw around so they'll be able to get the high profile cats on the network. But if I remember correctly I read some article saying that GBP is pretty much just doing what HBO can't; being a promoter. Not that it isn't obvious, because being with GBP and winning fights is guaranteed to have you fighting on there.

Spyder
QUOTE (Snoop @ Nov 8 2010, 07:13 PM) *
HBO has by far THE BEST shows on television. The Wire, Entourage, Treme, Rome, Band of Brothers, Boardwalk Empire, the list goes on and on. But yeah, they're using that as leverage for shitty undercards. The sad thing is, there isn't much we can do about it. Sacrificing these shows is almost too high of a price to pay. LOL.

AMC's CURRENT lineup would be willing to take the Pepsi Challenge to that claim...Mad Men, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad...you get that shit for FREE, son! Haha
Snoop
QUOTE (Spyder @ Nov 9 2010, 04:08 AM) *
AMC's CURRENT lineup would be willing to take the Pepsi Challenge to that claim...Mad Men, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad...you get that shit for FREE, son! Haha

Damn, that's a solid lineup, and the free pricetag is another plus. But I'd still argue HBO has better programming, though I'm not so sure how much I'd be willing to invest in that argument. laugh.gif
Spyder
QUOTE (Snoop @ Nov 8 2010, 10:17 PM) *
Damn, that's a solid lineup, and the free pricetag is another plus. But I'd still argue HBO has better programming, though I'm not so sure how much I'd be willing to invest in that argument. laugh.gif

HBO gets the advantage of History and the ability to consistently put out great shows. Mainly because they're the first stop for anyone pitching a show, so they get their pick. BUT they passed on Mad Men...idiots lol...and now AMC has arguably THE best show on TV. Breaking Bad is a close third behind Boardwalk Empire...but Walking Dead is an AMAZING addition at only two episodes in. They are definitely the new kids on the block, but I'm already sold on giving a shot to any new shows they put out. I don't give that attention to Showtime, and previously only gave HBO carte blanche to convert me to a regular viewer of their new shows.

I'd compare the two to Rocky 3. HBO is like Rocky. The old vet that people love...training in fancy hotels...spending money out the ass...COMFORTABLY sitting as the Champ. AMC on the other hand, is Clubber Lang. Putting in REAL work in some dirty ass gym (basic cable)...taking fights where he can get them...and straight up, KNOCKING BITCHES OUT!

Don't sleep on AMC, now...cause it'll get you!
Snoop
QUOTE (Spyder @ Nov 9 2010, 03:42 AM) *
HBO gets the advantage of History and the ability to consistently put out great shows. Mainly because they're the first stop for anyone pitching a show, so they get their pick. BUT they passed on Mad Men...idiots lol...and now AMC has arguably THE best show on TV. Breaking Bad is a close third behind Boardwalk Empire...but Walking Dead is an AMAZING addition at only two episodes in. They are definitely the new kids on the block, but I'm already sold on giving a shot to any new shows they put out. I don't give that attention to Showtime, and previously only gave HBO carte blanche to convert me to a regular viewer of their new shows.

I'd compare the two to Rocky 3. HBO is like Rocky. The old vet that people love...training in fancy hotels...spending money out the ass...COMFORTABLY sitting as the Champ. AMC on the other hand, is Clubber Lang. Putting in REAL work in some dirty ass gym (basic cable)...taking fights where he can get them...and straight up, KNOCKING BITCHES OUT!

Don't sleep on AMC, now...cause it'll get you!

Damn HBO passed on Mad Men? Bad move on their part. Like the comparison of HBO vs AMC to Rocky vs Lang. You never know who will dethrone the king.
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