Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: pac man 60 minutes
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4
neophyte7
Roach says they have not been training as they should have and manny is in danger of losing the fight

says manny distracted by politics walking around at 2am etc...

Pac says he has accomplished all he wants to in boxing??? something sounds fishy with this fight coming up


or is this just 60 minutes hype???
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Nov 7 2010, 07:03 PM) *
Roach says they have not been training as they should have and manny is in danger of losing the fight

says manny distracted by politics walking around at 2am etc...

Pac says he has accomplished all he wants to in boxing??? something sounds fishy with this fight coming up


or is this just 60 minutes hype???

Are they really that good at acting?

Quack is in a no lose situation (unless he gets seriously injured, omnipotent being forbid). If he loses the fight, he is a hero for taking on a guy so much bigger then himself. If he wins, he is the GOAT of all GOATS to every Filipino (sans the few objective boxing enthusiasts) on Earth.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 7 2010, 09:10 PM) *
Are they really that good at acting?

Quack is in a no lose situation (unless he gets seriously injured, omnipotent being forbid). If he loses the fight, he is a hero for taking on a guy so much bigger then himself. If he wins, he is the GOAT of all GOATS to every Filipino (sans the few objective boxing enthusiasts) on Earth.


There does seem a lot more smoke and mirrors than usual. I'm still convinced Pac wins but why all the melodrama from Coach Roach? It's confusing to say the least.
gravytrain
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Nov 7 2010, 09:03 PM) *
Roach says they have not been training as they should have and manny is in danger of losing the fight

says manny distracted by politics walking around at 2am etc...

Pac says he has accomplished all he wants to in boxing??? something sounds fishy with this fight coming up


or is this just 60 minutes hype???


I think they're just hyping up the upset and giving themselves a good grip on the negotiations.

Think about it: Arum killed Mayweather, the casual fan and even some boxing fans think he's ducking Pac. Since Pac said he's content with retiring after this bout and Mayweather already has a bad image he really can't afford to be stubborn on any issues, he'll shoulder all the blame if the fight isn't made.
Snoop
It's a planting of excuses. Another bitchmove from Team Pacquiao.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Snoop @ Nov 7 2010, 11:40 PM) *
It's a planting of excuses. Another bitchmove from Team Pacquiao.


Don't you think it's a bit obvious?

But then again maybe you're right, Margarito is an awfully big guy and even though it's being fought at a catchweight of 150 don't you think Pac should be commended for stepping up and taking the Pepsi challenge?

AND now I think of it, as according to many of your hater brothers the fight is already fixed. So why would they need an excuse for a loss?
Snoop
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Nov 8 2010, 04:47 AM) *
Don't you think it's a bit obvious?

But then again maybe you're right, Margarito is an awfully big guy and even though it's being fought at a catchweight of 150 don't you think Pac should be commended for stepping up and taking the Pepsi challenge?

AND now I think of it, as according to many of your hater brothers the fight is already fixed. So why would they need an excuse for a loss?

No I don't think Pacquiao should be commended for yet another Championship catchweight bout against a proven cheater. If he wants to legitimately win a belt, fight at the goddamn weight. It's really not that hard.

However, in this case I actually see the 150 catchweight as an advantage for Margarito, but my gripe is with the whole 8th title in 8 weight classes bullshit. C'mon man. You can't deny that this whole belt fiasco is crap.

I'm just saying, it's either they're hyping it up for the fight, or he's planting excuses. If Pacquiao does lose, best believe the first words that come out of his mouth are going to be "Oh you know I was distracted from training" or "Oh I had a sore foot." This muthafucka NEVER gives credit to his opponents. That's one reason I can't respect the guy.

And no, I'm not going to say it's a fix until I actually see the fight. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised if it was a fix.
gravytrain
I think people completely overlook the 150 pound catchweight. I think Marg probably walked around at the same weight for the Garcia fight that he was before beginning his training camp for Pac and Marg looked sluggish at 154, that's an extra 4 pounds he must lose. On the first episode of 24/7 Marg weighed in at 158 after working out with the suit on and probably with a pretty empty stomach. Recently he weighed 154 which was probably after another training session. I think the extra 4 pounds will hurt him, especially since he'll be having to deal with Pac's foot speed.



mexi-cutioner
QUOTE (Snoop @ Nov 7 2010, 10:56 PM) *
No I don't think Pacquiao should be commended for yet another Championship catchweight bout against a proven cheater. If he wants to legitimately win a belt, fight at the goddamn weight. It's really not that hard.

However, in this case I actually see the 150 catchweight as an advantage for Margarito, but my gripe is with the whole 8th title in 8 weight classes bullshit. C'mon man. You can't deny that this whole belt fiasco is crap.

I'm just saying, it's either they're hyping it up for the fight, or he's planting excuses. If Pacquiao does lose, best believe the first words that come out of his mouth are going to be "Oh you know I was distracted from training" or "Oh I had a sore foot." This muthafucka NEVER gives credit to his opponents. That's one reason I can't respect the guy.

And no, I'm not going to say it's a fix until I actually see the fight. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised if it was a fix.

You're a hater. alot of fighters talk shit and make up excuses about fighters before and after they lose it's the name of the game, especially when you're a prizefighter it's not easy to put aside your pride. Pac's one of the truest men in the game, he's as real as it gets and he ain't closed minded and arrogant like most guys when they reach the top how can u hate the guy. if you're mad at who he's been fighting hate Bob Arum, not Manny. Be all bitter about Pac's accolades and achievements all u want but however u twist it, Pac's done some amazing things in the sport and despite what u think , we NEED fighters like him to keep the sport from running itself into the ground. Pac and Floyd are arguably the only two fighters that transcend the sport and can get the casual fan interested in the boxing match; their presence reminds people once in a while that the sport of boxing does still exist. It's a sad reality, but it's the truth.

If you hate Pac so much why do u even bother wanting to watch the fight? Because you're interested in the outcome? that's what i thought.

The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Snoop @ Nov 8 2010, 01:56 AM) *
No I don't think Pacquiao should be commended for yet another Championship catchweight bout against a proven cheater. If he wants to legitimately win a belt, fight at the goddamn weight. It's really not that hard.

However, in this case I actually see the 150 catchweight as an advantage for Margarito, but my gripe is with the whole 8th title in 8 weight classes bullshit. C'mon man. You can't deny that this whole belt fiasco is crap.

I'm just saying, it's either they're hyping it up for the fight, or he's planting excuses. If Pacquiao does lose, best believe the first words that come out of his mouth are going to be "Oh you know I was distracted from training" or "Oh I had a sore foot." This muthafucka NEVER gives credit to his opponents. That's one reason I can't respect the guy.

And no, I'm not going to say it's a fix until I actually see the fight. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised if it was a fix.


Again Snoop you reinforce a point I've made earlier. Pac loses he will have an excuse. Pac wins it's a fix. Boy you really like it both ways huh?
HaydelHammer
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 8 2010, 04:14 AM) *
I think people completely overlook the 150 pound catchweight. I think Marg probably walked around at the same weight for the Garcia fight that he was before beginning his training camp for Pac and Marg looked sluggish at 154, that's an extra 4 pounds he must lose. On the first episode of 24/7 Marg weighed in at 158 after working out with the suit on and probably with a pretty empty stomach. Recently he weighed 154 which was probably after another training session. I think the extra 4 pounds will hurt him, especially since he'll be having to deal with Pac's foot speed.


I agree!
neophyte7
Roach looked pretty serious in saying that this camp has not been as good as others... he seemed dissatisfied. If Pac is not mentally prepared as usual he may be in trouble
Snoop
QUOTE (mexi-cutioner @ Nov 8 2010, 11:01 AM) *
You're a hater. alot of fighters talk shit and make up excuses about fighters before and after they lose it's the name of the game, especially when you're a prizefighter it's not easy to put aside your pride. Pac's one of the truest men in the game, he's as real as it gets and he ain't closed minded and arrogant like most guys when they reach the top how can u hate the guy. if you're mad at who he's been fighting hate Bob Arum, not Manny. Be all bitter about Pac's accolades and achievements all u want but however u twist it, Pac's done some amazing things in the sport and despite what u think , we NEED fighters like him to keep the sport from running itself into the ground. Pac and Floyd are arguably the only two fighters that transcend the sport and can get the casual fan interested in the boxing match; their presence reminds people once in a while that the sport of boxing does still exist. It's a sad reality, but it's the truth.

So...you're basically justifying fighters making excuses? Ok sure. It's true that fighters always make excuses before and after the bout, but the ones that don't, i.e. Cotto, I have respect for. Just because it's the norm doesn't mean I have to respect it.

And hey, I used to like Pac. I damn near cried when he lost to Morales the first time around. But his actions of late have been, to say the very least, disappointing. So if there's anything I'm mad about, it's that he decided to take the shortcut route to fame rather than be the great fighter he could have been.

QUOTE
If you hate Pac so much why do u even bother wanting to watch the fight? Because you're interested in the outcome? that's what i thought.

Because I love boxing more than I hate Pacquiao.

QUOTE
Again Snoop you reinforce a point I've made earlier. Pac loses he will have an excuse. Pac wins it's a fix. Boy you really like it both ways huh?

And again, I don't see why you're constantly reiterating the definition of a "fixed" fight. Of course those that think that the fight is fixed don't think Pac can win. It's not like they're adding on to their opinion; it's within the definition of what they believe.

And AGAIN, I don't necessarily think the fight is fixed. It depends on how Pac wins or perhaps more accurately, how Margarito loses that makes a fight suspect. If you decide to take anything for face value and never question a fight, be my guest, just don't put words into the mouths of those that decide to do the opposite.
Snoop
QUOTE
I think people completely overlook the 150 pound catchweight. I think Marg probably walked around at the same weight for the Garcia fight that he was before beginning his training camp for Pac and Marg looked sluggish at 154, that's an extra 4 pounds he must lose. On the first episode of 24/7 Marg weighed in at 158 after working out with the suit on and probably with a pretty empty stomach. Recently he weighed 154 which was probably after another training session. I think the extra 4 pounds will hurt him, especially since he'll be having to deal with Pac's foot speed.

I actually disagree. I think unlike the Cotto fight, the catchweight is less of a factor, maybe even an advantage for Margarito. Margarito has been fighting at 147 for most of his career, hasn't really shown any trouble making weight (with exception to the scale mix-up in the Mosley fight), and I think the extra 3lbs will be a comfortable cushion for him. Pac on the other hand, will have to move up yet another 3lbs from a weight he's already a bit small for (IMO his optimal weight is 135-140) and the extra weight might actually slow him down. My whole thing is that this is for a title belt, against a fighter that has a record of cheating. IMO, this fight shouldn't be happening in the first place.
jlupi
this fight is all abou arum keeping $$$ in house. Even if you give marg a pass on cheating he has done nothing to earn this fight since mosley and the title is bogus. Neither have done anything at 154
sweetscientist1
QUOTE (jlupi @ Nov 8 2010, 11:38 AM) *
this fight is all abou arum keeping $$$ in house. Even if you give marg a pass on cheating he has done nothing to earn this fight since mosley and the title is bogus. Neither have done anything at 154

Aahhh, get over it! I saw the replay of the Margacheato vs Cotto fight this weekend on cable. It was interesting to see Cotto out box this guy all night long for his punches to have absolutetly no effect on Margacheatos big grill. I 've got my own theory about this guy Margacheato. I know this may sound crazy to some of you but this is what I saw in that fight. You could easily make an argument that Margacheatos gloves were loaded based on the fact that you would see Cottos body cringe and fold in the later rounds when Miguel took thoses body shots. Also, Cottos blood from the ears, nose and mouth was really suspect. Yes! Absolutely. Actually , I would go as far to say I don't think Antonios gloves were loaded that time. But I can unequivocally say that based on the way he walked through Miguels punches that night,"Margacheatio was very obviously on PEDS. I don't know what he was on but there's no way that you walk through the shots Cotto was delivering all night long. That is the most suspect thing about this fight.Miguel outboxed this dude and tagged his grill all night long and, it mattered not! Than ol Antonio did his usual biz of cutting off the ring and crushing Miguel with facial, head and awesome body shots. Game over. Winner Margacheato.
jlupi
Aahhh, get over it! >>>>

?????

I get this responce and then a all your theries how "Margacheato" has loaded gloves and is on PEDs?

again ???????????? huh.gif rolleyes_anim.gif
gravytrain
QUOTE (Snoop @ Nov 8 2010, 11:04 AM) *
I actually disagree. I think unlike the Cotto fight, the catchweight is less of a factor, maybe even an advantage for Margarito. Margarito has been fighting at 147 for most of his career, hasn't really shown any trouble making weight (with exception to the scale mix-up in the Mosley fight), and I think the extra 3lbs will be a comfortable cushion for him. Pac on the other hand, will have to move up yet another 3lbs from a weight he's already a bit small for (IMO his optimal weight is 135-140) and the extra weight might actually slow him down. My whole thing is that this is for a title belt, against a fighter that has a record of cheating. IMO, this fight shouldn't be happening in the first place.



Here's what you're forgetting though: he let himself go during the time he was banned and had to fight at 154 because he couldn't make 147. He also was 4 pounds above the catchweight despite most likely being dried out/with an empty stomach a week out from the fight. When you've a low bodyfat it gets harder to lose weight when you've less fat, that means he'll be fasting and having to dehydrate to get down to 150.

I think he'll be just as sluggish as he was for the Garcia fight, and if Pac plays it smart and uses the ring Marg could be pretty well gassed by round 5.
neophyte7
All that being said... much will depend on Margarito's will to win. Will and determination may be the deciding factor in this fight. The king of the catch weights has had an easy time his last three fights. I would like to see how he reacts to some stiff resistance.
gravytrain
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Nov 8 2010, 04:04 PM) *
All that being said... much will depend on Margarito's will to win. Will and determination may be the deciding factor in this fight. The king of the catch weights has had an easy time his last three fights. I would like to see how he reacts to some stiff resistance.


I think of this fight kind of like Louis/Conn 1. If Pac[Conn] gets too confident and tries to fight there's a really good chance of him losing, but if he moves around the ring and fights his fight then Marg[Louis] wont be able to get busy and will spend most the fight chasing Pac around.
neophyte7
hmmmm interesting analysis, yet I don't buy this Pac moves around the ring stuff... I see pac darting in with punches from all angles. He really comes straight forward an awful lot letting his hands go... running punches up the middle. Not sure on marg's ability but a sharp quik counter puncher can take pacs head off
Snoop
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 8 2010, 09:57 PM) *
Here's what you're forgetting though: he let himself go during the time he was banned and had to fight at 154 because he couldn't make 147. He also was 4 pounds above the catchweight despite most likely being dried out/with an empty stomach a week out from the fight. When you've a low bodyfat it gets harder to lose weight when you've less fat, that means he'll be fasting and having to dehydrate to get down to 150.

I think he'll be just as sluggish as he was for the Garcia fight, and if Pac plays it smart and uses the ring Marg could be pretty well gassed by round 5.

That's a fair point. It has been a while since he's been down at 147. Either way, this fight stinks.
mexi-cutioner
QUOTE (Snoop @ Nov 8 2010, 08:02 AM) *
So...you're basically justifying fighters making excuses? Ok sure. It's true that fighters always make excuses before and after the bout, but the ones that don't, i.e. Cotto, I have respect for. Just because it's the norm doesn't mean I have to respect it.

And hey, I used to like Pac. I damn near cried when he lost to Morales the first time around. But his actions of late have been, to say the very least, disappointing. So if there's anything I'm mad about, it's that he decided to take the shortcut route to fame rather than be the great fighter he could have been.


Because I love boxing more than I hate Pacquiao.


And again, I don't see why you're constantly reiterating the definition of a "fixed" fight. Of course those that think that the fight is fixed don't think Pac can win. It's not like they're adding on to their opinion; it's within the definition of what they believe.

And AGAIN, I don't necessarily think the fight is fixed. It depends on how Pac wins or perhaps more accurately, how Margarito loses that makes a fight suspect. If you decide to take anything for face value and never question a fight, be my guest, just don't put words into the mouths of those that decide to do the opposite.


When you're great and the entire world knows your name, you're going to think you're the shit no matter how you twist it. I'm not justifying that it's ok for fighters to make excuses, i'm just saying that's all part of the game. You become world champ and tendency has it that you'll think you're ontop of the world. I feel like you're out to antagonize Pac, and if it's true that you don't like fighters who let their fame and accolades get to their head and make excuses, then you must not like ALOT of fighters. Tyson, Ali, Jones Jr, Hagler, Morales, Barrera, Lewis to name a few have all made excuses and/or talked shit at different points throughout their career and i don't feel you're reasoning justifies how you can't have respect for them considering all they've accomplished and then some.

His actions as of late? taking the short cut route? The man has become bigger in his country than Ali was in the United States, how can you say that Pac took the shortcut route to fame when he began in poverty, fought his way up the ranks only to beat the likes of Morales, Barrera and go to hell and back vs. Marquez and still be talked down on? the man has fought some of the best featherweights of his era and now continues to move up in weight and he is still taking the shortcut route???? How can you still say he's taking the shortcut route and he continues to move up in weight and defy the odds and fight bigger, stronger opposition. I think people tend to fabricate how detrimental the catchweight reallly is. For the DLH fight, the catchweight was necessary and DLH was very willing to do it. The Cotto fight was questionablee, and with this fight vs margarito being fought at 151, you can hardly complain since pac probably won't even be coming in on fightnight at 150 pounds and Margarito has spent most of his career fighting at 147. In fact, Martinez-Williams II is being fought at a catchweight, does that make that fight a farce? not at all.

People need to appreciate that we have a fighter like Pac in our era who can get the casual fan interested. How can we appreciate the sport when all we do is continuously find reasons to critique and scrutinize the few big names we have left in teh sport.
BigG
Pac said he was the GREATEST fighter of all time just like Mayweather did...
mexi-cutioner
QUOTE (mexi-cutioner @ Nov 8 2010, 03:53 PM) *
When you're great and the entire world knows your name, you're going to think you're the shit no matter how you twist it. I'm not justifying that it's ok for fighters to make excuses, i'm just saying that's all part of the game. You become world champ and tendency has it that you'll think you're ontop of the world. I feel like you're out to antagonize Pac, and if it's true that you don't like fighters who let their fame and accolades get to their head and make excuses, then you must not like ALOT of fighters. Tyson, Ali, Jones Jr, Hagler, Morales, Barrera, Lewis to name a few have all made excuses and/or talked shit at different points throughout their career and i don't feel you're reasoning justifies how you can't have respect for them considering all they've accomplished and then some.

His actions as of late? taking the short cut route? The man has become bigger in his country than Ali was in the United States, how can you say that Pac took the shortcut route to fame when he began in poverty, fought his way up the ranks only to beat the likes of Morales, Barrera and go to hell and back vs. Marquez and still be talked down on? the man has fought some of the best featherweights of his era and now continues to move up in weight and he is still taking the shortcut route???? How can you still say he's taking the shortcut route and he continues to move up in weight and defy the odds and fight bigger, stronger opposition. I think people tend to fabricate how detrimental the catchweight reallly is. For the DLH fight, the catchweight was necessary and DLH was very willing to do it. The Cotto fight was questionablee, and with this fight vs margarito being fought at 151, you can hardly complain since pac probably won't even be coming in on fightnight at 150 pounds and Margarito has spent most of his career fighting at 147. In fact, Martinez-Williams II is being fought at a catchweight, does that make that fight a farce? not at all.

People need to appreciate that we have a fighter like Pac in our era who can get the casual fan interested. How can we appreciate the sport when all we do is continuously find reasons to critique and scrutinize the few big names we have left in teh sport. Even fighters like Mayweather, i hate on him when it comes to talk about him vs. Pac but at the end of the day I appreciate his skillset and not many fighters are going to come along that are as talented as him. Like Pac, most people tend to take them for granted and stray from the fact that fighters at that level are a rarity and instead put a spotlight on the negative aspects: who htey've fought, who they've ducked , how they act etc.

neophyte7

"pac said he was the GREATEST fighter of all time just like Mayweather did"... BIG G

No exactly this way. 60 minutes anchor asked him who , "was the greatest fighter ever to live... pac replied, Besides me... myself" LMAO


ARUM said that PAC was greater than ALI... LMAO wow
mexi-cutioner
Accidentally double psoted when i tried to edit the original, my bad
neophyte7
QUOTE (BigG @ Nov 8 2010, 06:55 PM) *
Pac said he was the GREATEST fighter of all time just like Mayweather did...



o exactly this way. 60 minutes anchor asked him who , "was the greatest fighter ever to live... pac replied, Besides me... myself" LMAO


ARUM said that PAC was greater than ALI... LMAO wow
neophyte7
QUOTE (BigG @ Nov 8 2010, 06:55 PM) *
Pac said he was the GREATEST fighter of all time just like Mayweather did...



o exactly this way. 60 minutes anchor asked him who , "was the greatest fighter ever to live... pac replied, Besides me... myself" LMAO


ARUM said that PAC was greater than ALI... LMAO wow
Fitz
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Nov 9 2010, 10:58 AM) *
"pac said he was the GREATEST fighter of all time just like Mayweather did"... BIG G

No exactly this way. 60 minutes anchor asked him who , "was the greatest fighter ever to live... pac replied, Besides me... myself" LMAO


ARUM said that PAC was greater than ALI... LMAO wow


and Mayweather said he is greater than Ray Robinson and Ali as well. Now you can have double the laughs today. Laugh at pancake face and that other boy.
gravytrain
QUOTE (mexi-cutioner @ Nov 8 2010, 06:53 PM) *
His actions as of late? taking the short cut route? The man has become bigger in his country than Ali was in the United States,


Bigger than Ali in America? I doubt it. Ali was also bigger worldwide too. A billion people were rumored to watch Ali/Foreman and the population of the world around that time was 4 billion.

Snoop
QUOTE (mexi-cutioner @ Nov 9 2010, 12:53 AM) *
When you're great and the entire world knows your name, you're going to think you're the shit no matter how you twist it. I'm not justifying that it's ok for fighters to make excuses, i'm just saying that's all part of the game. You become world champ and tendency has it that you'll think you're ontop of the world. I feel like you're out to antagonize Pac, and if it's true that you don't like fighters who let their fame and accolades get to their head and make excuses, then you must not like ALOT of fighters. Tyson, Ali, Jones Jr, Hagler, Morales, Barrera, Lewis to name a few have all made excuses and/or talked shit at different points throughout their career and i don't feel you're reasoning justifies how you can't have respect for them considering all they've accomplished and then some.

Making excuses is just one of the many reasons I don't like Pac. Anytime a fighter makes an excuse, even if it's a valid one i.e. Marquez last Saturday, it disappoints me. When a fighter makes an asinine excuse i.e. glove type or socks, I flat out lose respect, ala Pac. Manny is on top of the world, but my whole argument is that his accolades and accomplishments are a farce, masked in a smoke screen of cherry picking opponents and catchweights. Seven titles in seven weight classes? Now he's going for an 8th? In a weight class he has done ZERO in and against a cheater? Get the fuck outta here.

QUOTE
His actions as of late? taking the short cut route? The man has become bigger in his country than Ali was in the United States, how can you say that Pac took the shortcut route to fame when he began in poverty, fought his way up the ranks only to beat the likes of Morales, Barrera and go to hell and back vs. Marquez and still be talked down on? the man has fought some of the best featherweights of his era and now continues to move up in weight and he is still taking the shortcut route???? How can you still say he's taking the shortcut route and he continues to move up in weight and defy the odds and fight bigger, stronger opposition. I think people tend to fabricate how detrimental the catchweight reallly is. For the DLH fight, the catchweight was necessary and DLH was very willing to do it. The Cotto fight was questionablee, and with this fight vs margarito being fought at 151, you can hardly complain since pac probably won't even be coming in on fightnight at 150 pounds and Margarito has spent most of his career fighting at 147.

First of all, how are you measuring that Pacquiao has become bigger than Ali? Even beyond that, I'll tell you why that's a ridiculous claim to make:

1) The population of the Philippines is a third of the United States and the racial make up is not anywhere near as complex as the US.
2) Ali shook up THE WORLD with not only his ring resume, but for his stand against Vietnam. Pacquiao can't even say who he wants to fight next without consulting Bob Arum. These two don't even belong in the same sentence. Comparing Pacquiao to Ali is not only a disgrace to boxing, but to events that changed the world.

Second, I would have been more impressed had Pac stayed in the featherweight/super featherweight classes and cleaned out the divisions, which he was doing when he was taking out all the Mexican legends. But instead of hanging around, he moves up and snatches a belt from a C-level fighter in David Diaz, moves up and fights a weight-drained DLH (but in his defense, DLH fucking asked for it), then goes on to put stipulation after stipulation to weaken fighters and snatch belts in the meantime. I'd rather have him face legitimate threats in fighters that are coming in their full optimal form, rather than making these demands to have fighters weaken themselves. If you don't want to face an opponent in their best form, don't face them. Plain and fucking simple.

QUOTE
In fact, Martinez-Williams II is being fought at a catchweight, does that make that fight a farce? not at all.

First of all, Martinez at some point was simultaneously the Super welterweight AND the Middleweight champion of the world. It's very clear that he's more than capable to move between the two weight classes whereas Cotto said goodbye to the Light Welterweight division well before he fought Pacquiao. That's the difference.

QUOTE
People need to appreciate that we have a fighter like Pac in our era who can get the casual fan interested. How can we appreciate the sport when all we do is continuously find reasons to critique and scrutinize the few big names we have left in teh sport.

This is actually a point I partially agree with. With MMA slowly kidnapping fans of boxing away from its PPVs, I'm glad there's still a household name to keep the public interested, and therefore keep the financial funding for boxing alive. But I also wonder if it's better or worse to have these overnight experts come out of the woodwork anytime Pacquiao fights. I swear I hear people hooping and hollering about how great it is that Pacquiao is the only fighter to have 7 championships in 7 weight classes, but when you ask them to name 3 of those fights in which he won those belts, they suddenly become silent. My gripe is against ignorant bandwagon boxing fans that want to hop on the Pac train anytime it pulls into the station and wave their noses at the diehard fanatics when Pacquiao wins. Where were these motherfuckers when Pacquiao made his statement win against Barerra? How many of these motherfuckers even know who Barerra is? Combine that way Pacquiao has come to acquire such admiration (mentioned above) makes me hate the fucking dude.

But hey, this is all just my opinion.
Snoop
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 9 2010, 01:17 AM) *
and Mayweather said he is greater than Ray Robinson and Ali as well. Now you can have double the laughs today. Laugh at pancake face and that other boy.

Yeah. Fuck that guy too. laugh.gif
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 8 2010, 08:23 PM) *
Bigger than Ali in America? I doubt it. Ali was also bigger worldwide too. A billion people were rumored to watch Ali/Foreman and the population of the world around that time was 4 billion.


Gravy there is some unreal statistic that crime in the Philipines virtually stops when Pac is fighting. Like zero. Is he bigger in his country than Ali was in the States? That's subjective but there is certainly a case to be made for it.

Why bring up worldwide popularity? It wasn't mentioned and is irrelevant to the conversation. Plus boxing was a mainstream sport back in the day. Trying to compare the worldwide audience of those days to now is like apples and oranges.
BigG
Neither Pac nor Floyd are close to greatness of Sugar Ray Robinson. Sugar Ray is the greatest boxer of all time with Ali being number 2
Fitz
I try to say this in the least offensive way as possible. But lets face it, the Philipines is a 3rd world country with nothing going for them in terms of stars. They don't produce many stars of any field, and it isn't a knock on them, it's just hard when you are from a 3rd world country.
But when a star is born, of course the nation is going to get behind that person because they are usually starved of celebrities or world stars. They tend to appreciate something that comes a long once in a lifetime so much more. While established countries they produce world stars all the time, when ever they want. The country can sometimes take their stars for granted, and also because there are many. Love gets shared around between multiple athletes. In the Philipines, it's one guy and it's Pacquiao. It's natural.
It's a stupid comparison IMO to compare someone like Pacquiao to Ali in their respected countries considering all the factors. It doesn't show that Pacquiao is a bigger star, it just tells us that in the Philipines, they don't have much to look forward to.
I say this without trying to be offensive, but it's the truth. That happens in 3rd world countries. It's natural for someone to value something more that is rare than someone valuing something that is common.
gravytrain
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Nov 8 2010, 08:07 PM) *
Gravy there is some unreal statistic that crime in the Philipines virtually stops when Pac is fighting. Like zero. Is he bigger in his country than Ali was in the States? That's subjective but there is certainly a case to be made for it.

Why bring up worldwide popularity? It wasn't mentioned and is irrelevant to the conversation. Plus boxing was a mainstream sport back in the day. Trying to compare the worldwide audience of those days to now is like apples and oranges.


Yeah, you can jive all you want to but Pac isn't going to have close to a fourth of the world watching him.

As far as national popularity is concerned, I'd feel safe putting money on Ali being more popular in America right now than Pac is in his home country. Ali has been retired for quite some time too.

Fitz
It's like giving away cabbage in some african country, and people are going absolutely nuts over cabage and nothing like that seen before. Then saying that cabbage in this country is more popular than KFC in America.
neophyte7
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 8 2010, 08:18 PM) *
Yeah, you can jive all you want to but Pac isn't going to have close to a fourth of the world watching him.

As far as national popularity is concerned, I'd feel safe putting money on Ali being more popular in America right now than Pac is in his home country. Ali has been retired for quite some time too.




hahaha... that is a sure winning bet...
mexi-cutioner
QUOTE (Snoop @ Nov 8 2010, 04:36 PM) *
Making excuses is just one of the many reasons I don't like Pac. Anytime a fighter makes an excuse, even if it's a valid one i.e. Marquez last Saturday, it disappoints me. When a fighter makes an asinine excuse i.e. glove type or socks, I flat out lose respect, ala Pac. Manny is on top of the world, but my whole argument is that his accolades and accomplishments are a farce, masked in a smoke screen of cherry picking opponents and catchweights. Seven titles in seven weight classes? Now he's going for an 8th? In a weight class he has done ZERO in and against a cheater? Get the fuck outta here.


First of all, how are you measuring that Pacquiao has become bigger than Ali? Even beyond that, I'll tell you why that's a ridiculous claim to make:

1) The population of the Philippines is a third of the United States and the racial make up is not anywhere near as complex as the US.
2) Ali shook up THE WORLD with not only his ring resume, but for his stand against Vietnam. Pacquiao can't even say who he wants to fight next without consulting Bob Arum. These two don't even belong in the same sentence. Comparing Pacquiao to Ali is not only a disgrace to boxing, but to events that changed the world.

Second, I would have been more impressed had Pac stayed in the featherweight/super featherweight classes and cleaned out the divisions, which he was doing when he was taking out all the Mexican legends. But instead of hanging around, he moves up and snatches a belt from a C-level fighter in David Diaz, moves up and fights a weight-drained DLH (but in his defense, DLH fucking asked for it), then goes on to put stipulation after stipulation to weaken fighters and snatch belts in the meantime. I'd rather have him face legitimate threats in fighters that are coming in their full optimal form, rather than making these demands to have fighters weaken themselves. If you don't want to face an opponent in their best form, don't face them. Plain and fucking simple.


First of all, Martinez at some point was simultaneously the Super welterweight AND the Middleweight champion of the world. It's very clear that he's more than capable to move between the two weight classes whereas Cotto said goodbye to the Light Welterweight division well before he fought Pacquiao. That's the difference.


This is actually a point I partially agree with. With MMA slowly kidnapping fans of boxing away from its PPVs, I'm glad there's still a household name to keep the public interested, and therefore keep the financial funding for boxing alive. But I also wonder if it's better or worse to have these overnight experts come out of the woodwork anytime Pacquiao fights. I swear I hear people hooping and hollering about how great it is that Pacquiao is the only fighter to have 7 championships in 7 weight classes, but when you ask them to name 3 of those fights in which he won those belts, they suddenly become silent. My gripe is against ignorant bandwagon boxing fans that want to hop on the Pac train anytime it pulls into the station and wave their noses at the diehard fanatics when Pacquiao wins. Where were these motherfuckers when Pacquiao made his statement win against Barerra? How many of these motherfuckers even know who Barerra is? Combine that way Pacquiao has come to acquire such admiration (mentioned above) makes me hate the fucking dude.

But hey, this is all just my opinion.


You seem to have high appraisal for Ali, but you also said you dislike fighters, who are full of themselves and make excuses. SO which one is it??? Ali talked alot of shit and disregarded his opponents more than most fighters in the game have ever done. Not taking away from Ali, but you seem to contradict your own stance of disliking fighters of that type.

And I never once said Pacquiao is bigger than Ali per se, i said that Pacquiao is likely BIGGER in the Philippines than Ali was in the USA, but people have their opinions and that is up for debate. But with that being said, I'm pretty sure that the crime rate dropped to absolute zero when Ali fought in the United States. ANd you gotta remember, there were MANY Ali haters during his time, people hating on him for being overrated and disrespectful and so forth. It backs up my claim that people are going to hate and disrespect and never fully appreciate a fighter for what he's done until after he's long gone from the sport and it's a shame.

Like I said, you nit pick and criticize every fight pac has taken since he moved up from 130 pounds and u would rather have him clear out the division to gain ur respect, but you have to remember the dude could no longer make the 130pound limit, and struggled hard to make 135 vs. DIaz, his body just wouldn't allow for it. WIth you ther's no doing Pac justice. If Pac lost to Cotto or Clottey, Pac is overrated and exposed. If Pac wins, he's a bum fighting done fighters. It's obvious you just hav some deep seeded resentment towards Pac and are bitter at the amount of praise he's gotten, but to spend as much time as u do trying to demonize Pac you are obviously intrigued by him.

It is fans like you who, aside from the corrupt promoters of the sport, are making fans turn away from boxing cause you tell them that Pac is this, Pac is that, his next fight isn't worth watching, it's a hoax etc and don't make the casual fans want to care about it. Let the bandwagon jumpers board ship, it shows that people are starting to get interested in the fight who cares if they can't name every1 of Pacs title wins is taht supposed to make you better or soemthing
kidbazooka1
I don't buy the hype Roach is a smart f*ck he's trying to mess with Margarito's head. Manny is as ready as he'll ever be.
gravytrain
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Nov 8 2010, 08:22 PM) *
hahaha... that is a sure winning bet...


In the words of Ali; "All you suckas must bow!".
Hops
In some ways, I pity those who are affected by every small bits of things. Whereas large mass of casual fans could be seen behind Margacheato when he arrived. Those people just want to enjoy a boxing show.
Snoop
QUOTE (mexi-cutioner @ Nov 9 2010, 01:23 AM) *
You seem to have high appraisal for Ali, but you also said you dislike fighters, who are full of themselves and make excuses. SO which one is it??? Ali talked alot of shit and disregarded his opponents more than most fighters in the game have ever done. Not taking away from Ali, but you seem to contradict your own stance of disliking fighters of that type.

No I'm not contradicting my stance because I'm not comparing Pacquiao to Ali. You are.

QUOTE
And I never once said Pacquiao is bigger than Ali per se, i said that Pacquiao is likely BIGGER in the Philippines than Ali was in the USA, but people have their opinions and that is up for debate. But with that being said, I'm pretty sure that the crime rate dropped to absolute zero when Ali fought in the United States. ANd you gotta remember, there were MANY Ali haters during his time, people hating on him for being overrated and disrespectful and so forth. It backs up my claim that people are going to hate and disrespect and never fully appreciate a fighter for what he's done until after he's long gone from the sport and it's a shame.

Like I said, you nit pick and criticize every fight pac has taken since he moved up from 130 pounds and u would rather have him clear out the division to gain ur respect, but you have to remember the dude could no longer make the 130pound limit, and struggled hard to make 135 vs. DIaz, his body just wouldn't allow for it. WIth you ther's no doing Pac justice. If Pac lost to Cotto or Clottey, Pac is overrated and exposed. If Pac wins, he's a bum fighting done fighters. It's obvious you just hav some deep seeded resentment towards Pac and are bitter at the amount of praise he's gotten, but to spend as much time as u do trying to demonize Pac you are obviously intrigued by him.

If he struggled at 135, then move up to 140 and clean out the division. There were plenty of quality opponents aside from Hatton. How the fuck are you supposed to be a "Champion" in a weight division when you've only had one fight in those weight classes? Instead he handicaps Miguel Cotto for a 147 strap at a catchweight? GTFOH.

And of course you choose to ignore the parts where I actually do give Pac credit and the fact that I used to be a fan of his. Instead of criticizing my stance and putting assumptions of what I would have thought had X,Y or Z occurred, why don't you actually argue what did happen and the facts that I brought up?

QUOTE
It is fans like you who, aside from the corrupt promoters of the sport, are making fans turn away from boxing cause you tell them that Pac is this, Pac is that, his next fight isn't worth watching, it's a hoax etc and don't make the casual fans want to care about it. Let the bandwagon jumpers board ship, it shows that people are starting to get interested in the fight who cares if they can't name every1 of Pacs title wins is taht supposed to make you better or soemthing

Listen, if someone admires Pac because he's an exciting fighter, because they're inspired from his against-the-odds triumph over the incredible poverty of the Philippines, then cool man. I have respect for that. But it's when they start acting like pompous experts and insulting fans that have a different opinion that gets me riled up. It's even more irritating when you find out most of the time they have ZERO historical knowledge of the sport or even of their fighter for that matter. If you're not irritated by that then to each their own. I, for one, am. That's all.
Snoop
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 9 2010, 01:14 AM) *
I try to say this in the least offensive way as possible. But lets face it, the Philipines is a 3rd world country with nothing going for them in terms of stars. They don't produce many stars of any field, and it isn't a knock on them, it's just hard when you are from a 3rd world country.
But when a star is born, of course the nation is going to get behind that person because they are usually starved of celebrities or world stars. They tend to appreciate something that comes a long once in a lifetime so much more. While established countries they produce world stars all the time, when ever they want. The country can sometimes take their stars for granted, and also because there are many. Love gets shared around between multiple athletes. In the Philipines, it's one guy and it's Pacquiao. It's natural.
It's a stupid comparison IMO to compare someone like Pacquiao to Ali in their respected countries considering all the factors. It doesn't show that Pacquiao is a bigger star, it just tells us that in the Philipines, they don't have much to look forward to.
I say this without trying to be offensive, but it's the truth. That happens in 3rd world countries. It's natural for someone to value something more that is rare than someone valuing something that is common.

No offensive there Fitz. Just the truth. More reason as to why comparing Pacquiao to Ali is completely fucking asinine.
Snoop
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 9 2010, 01:21 AM) *
It's like giving away cabbage in some african country, and people are going absolutely nuts over cabage and nothing like that seen before. Then saying that cabbage in this country is more popular than KFC in America.

Fitz is on point with the analogies lately.

thumbsup_anim.gif
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 8 2010, 09:18 PM) *
Yeah, you can jive all you want to but Pac isn't going to have close to a fourth of the world watching him.

As far as national popularity is concerned, I'd feel safe putting money on Ali being more popular in America right now than Pac is in his home country. Ali has been retired for quite some time too.



If Ali had fought Foreman now a fourth of the world wouldn't be watching either. Jive that all you want.

I'm not sure Ali would be so popular in America compared to Pac in the Phillipines. Sad to say there is still a great deal of racism in America and particularly the south. Obama couldn't win a single state down there in the last election. I would guess that you might be surprised by the pockets of resistence you would find in America towards Ali or Clay as some of the haters would label him.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 8 2010, 09:14 PM) *
I try to say this in the least offensive way as possible. But lets face it, the Philipines is a 3rd world country with nothing going for them in terms of stars. They don't produce many stars of any field, and it isn't a knock on them, it's just hard when you are from a 3rd world country.
But when a star is born, of course the nation is going to get behind that person because they are usually starved of celebrities or world stars. They tend to appreciate something that comes a long once in a lifetime so much more. While established countries they produce world stars all the time, when ever they want. The country can sometimes take their stars for granted, and also because there are many. Love gets shared around between multiple athletes. In the Philipines, it's one guy and it's Pacquiao. It's natural.
It's a stupid comparison IMO to compare someone like Pacquiao to Ali in their respected countries considering all the factors. It doesn't show that Pacquiao is a bigger star, it just tells us that in the Philipines, they don't have much to look forward to.
I say this without trying to be offensive, but it's the truth. That happens in 3rd world countries. It's natural for someone to value something more that is rare than someone valuing something that is common.



I understand the point behind this. However no-one was really trying to make a point as to why Manny is so popular, rather than that he is popular. The reasons behind it are almost irrelevant.

I would agree however that the comparison is asinine.
Snoop
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Nov 9 2010, 02:15 AM) *
If Ali had fought Foreman now a fourth of the world wouldn't be watching either. Jive that all you want.

I'm not sure Ali would be so popular in America compared to Pac in the Phillipines. Sad to say there is still a great deal of racism in America and particularly the south. Obama couldn't win a single state down there in the last election. I would guess that you might be surprised by the pockets of resistence you would find in America towards Ali or Clay as some of the haters would label him.

Yup. Another reason why you can't compare the Philippines to the USA back then OR now.
neophyte7
Ali is known the world over and will be remembered for all times HISTORICALLY FOR MORE THAN JUST BOXING... Pacquiao loses to Margarito and his ass is put back into perspective LMAO... please his name and mystique will never equal Ali's... period
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.