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Hittman25
Very close fight....i believe judah was bxoing quiet well for half of the fight but i thot lucas was landing the harder shots even tho half the time they were to the body but that shouldnt matter i think lucas got robbed....it was a draw at least most of the fight was dead even....judah couldnt pull the trigger to get rid of this guy and matthysse couldnt find more shots like the one in the tenth.....it could have gone either way i just feel matthysse was banging the body way more than judah hitting matthysse to the face but for me that raises a question........did matthysse lose because he wasnt hitting zab in the face? idk good boxing tho
sweetscientist1
QUOTE (Hittman25 @ Nov 8 2010, 11:47 AM) *
Very close fight....i believe judah was bxoing quiet well for half of the fight but i thot lucas was landing the harder shots even tho half the time they were to the body but that shouldnt matter i think lucas got robbed....it was a draw at least most of the fight was dead even....judah couldnt pull the trigger to get rid of this guy and matthysse couldnt find more shots like the one in the tenth.....it could have gone either way i just feel matthysse was banging the body way more than judah hitting matthysse to the face but for me that raises a question........did matthysse lose because he wasnt hitting zab in the face? idk good boxing tho

Zab was very lucky. It's hard to believe he got that decision. That was a lot more suspect that Alexander vs Kotelnick for the weight class. Zab may be done. Maybe he can have better nights but he definitely looked like retirement material in the later rounds.
neophyte7
zab landed some great shots on Matthyse... shots that send people to sleep. I don't see any other guys in the division as big and hard chinned as Matthyse. Judah wads said not to be able to pull the trigger, I disagree. I think Judah was trying to stick strictly to his game plan for once and box, box. box, and in doing so was reluctanct to let his hands go at times in the fight. Judah cannot infight. I saw big opportunities for him to work out of clinches with punches, yet he never did and hardly ever does. Not many fighters can bang on the inside. I don't think it was a robbery. Close fight that I felt should have been a draw.
Hittman25
True at least a draw because all that body work that matthysse put in showed up wen zab couldnt box as well in the championship rounds....zab in this stage of his career needs to be stunning in his wins to attract the fights that pay big....
BrutalBodyShots
Hittman how did you SCORE the fight... or did you even score it?

It sounds to me like your suffering from the typical "the second half of the fight is more memorable than the first" syndrome.

It's human nature that you're going to remember the most recent stuff (later rounds) more than older stuff. Kinda like Hopkins/Taylor type stuff... 1 guy wins the first half, the other the second half it is common to feel like the guy that won the second half wins the fight.

What was your actual score of this fight since you label it a "robbery?"

EpTXCHAMP
this fight reminds of of Khan vs Kotelnik because people were down that Khan just won a decision against the unknown guy. Until we saw that unknown give Alexander hell. I think thats what is going to happen with mathysse.I wouldnt be surprised if he gives a top 10 junior welter hell or even beats one.

second Judah did not look castillo vs Hatton finshed or even Gatti vs baldomir he boxed stuck to the plan and made it to the 12th. Where as old zab probably would have got K.O'd. Is he as explosive at 33 as he was at 26 no but still has enough speed and power to hang in there with the top 5 welters IMO.

Second the remaining 140 guys are smaller than Mathysse who went up to 151 in the morning weigh in meaning by fight time he was probably around 155. zab needs the power advantage or at least be even to win a la cory spinks. Other than Maidana the other guys have about the same or a little less pop than zab which means zab should be competitive.
neophyte7
Any of those of those other 140 guys getting hit with the upper cuts Matthyse was hit with will be in trouble...
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Nov 8 2010, 06:26 PM) *
Any of those of those other 140 guys getting hit with the upper cuts Matthyse was hit with will be in trouble...

Good point.

The fight started to turn on that one picture perfect uppercut that snapped Matthysse's head back. Matthysse didn't smile like Hearns in the Hagler fight. He smiled like "that was your best, now your ass is mine."
EpTXCHAMP
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 8 2010, 10:09 PM) *
Good point.

The fight started to turn on that one picture perfect uppercut that snapped Matthysse's head back. Matthysse didn't smile like Hearns in the Hagler fight. He smiled like "that was your best, now your ass is mine."


lol I had a flash back to the baldomir fight after that moment.
AussieLad
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 9 2010, 12:38 AM) *
Hittman how did you SCORE the fight... or did you even score it?

It sounds to me like your suffering from the typical "the second half of the fight is more memorable than the first" syndrome.

It's human nature that you're going to remember the most recent stuff (later rounds) more than older stuff. Kinda like Hopkins/Taylor type stuff... 1 guy wins the first half, the other the second half it is common to feel like the guy that won the second half wins the fight.

What was your actual score of this fight since you label it a "robbery?"


If your looking at it from a fight perspective i tend to agree that the guy that wins the 2nd half has probably won the fight. He's absorbed the best that the other guy has had to offer, has turned the tide, and is only restricted by the number of rounds. Add in more rounds and the fight should be his as his opponent has already faded. But, boxing is a sport and not a fight, the number of rounds are finite, so i agree, it doesnt matter where a fighter wins his rounds from so long as they end up on the scorecard

Hittman25
I agree with lettermens card.....it was a even fight that shoulda went to matthysse all i can remember from the fight is lucas punishng the body in the early and late rounds and zab taking a knee and him stickin and moving.....i dont think i suffer from this syndrone.......matthysse was landing harder shots through out the fight and he never got hurt by zab
JD
I scored for Matthysse, but it was close.

I had no problem with the decision - I wouldn't call it a robbery, but I also wouldn't say Matthysse got any of the close rounds.
Nay_Sayer
Judah needs to retire.

I'd favor Bradley and Maidana over him by KO at this point.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Nov 9 2010, 11:30 AM) *
Judah needs to retire.

I'd favor Bradley and Maidana over him by KO at this point.

I guess I rate Matthysse a higher caliber opponent than that. I had Matthysse winning a very close fight but it certainly was not a robbery.

I do not think Bradley takes Judah out. If Judah caught Bradley with the uppercut that just made Matthysse smile at him, it might be Twitchville.

I don't think that Maidana is as skilled a boxer as Matthysse is. Judah might be able to outpoint him.

And finally, I don't think any of the top guns at 140 are going to be lining up for a shot at Matthysse.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 9 2010, 04:25 PM) *
I guess I rate Matthysse a higher caliber opponent than that. I had Matthysse winning a very close fight but it certainly was not a robbery.

I do not think Bradley takes Judah out. If Judah caught Bradley with the uppercut that just made Matthysse smile at him, it might be Twitchville.

I don't think that Maidana is as skilled a boxer as Matthysse is. Judah might be able to outpoint him.

And finally, I don't think any of the top guns at 140 are going to be lining up for a shot at Matthysse.


i dont know beardo.. the punch kendall holt blasted brdley with to put him down should hve had z's written all over it.... that punch knocks out anybody else in my opinion.... bradley got up and beat the shit out of holt... not saying holt is or isnt the harder puncher but he hit bradley just right on the right spot.... bradley looked like a man shot by pistol... how he got up from that shot is amazing...

SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 9 2010, 04:30 PM) *
i dont know beardo.. the punch kendall holt blasted brdley with to put him down should hve had z's written all over it.... that punch knocks out anybody else in my opinion.... bradley got up and beat the shit out of holt... not saying holt is or isnt the harder puncher but he hit bradley just right on the right spot.... bradley looked like a man shot by pistol... how he got up from that shot is amazing...


Good point, JLUV.

I suppose my point is that I don't think that Judah can be considered done from his performance against Matthysse. I think he is still a threat, especially since he seems to have matured.

I would love to see him v any of the 140 pound top guns.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 9 2010, 06:56 PM) *
Good point, JLUV.

I suppose my point is that I don't think that Judah can be considered done from his performance against Matthysse. I think he is still a threat, especially since he seems to have matured.

I would love to see him v any of the 140 pound top guns.


you are my man beardo and i hate to keep disagreeing with you but i think judah is lucky he was fighting a matt. a guy that will struggle anytime he faces a boxer or descent fighter... and he still almost lost... some think he did... im on the fence... imagine what a khan or bradley would do to him... or a maidana... even alexander who the jury is really out on MIGHT do... or ortiz... and i can go on and on... maybe he has earned his chance to get his hat served to him but there comes a time when you have to ask yourself WHY?... we know the outcome... in my opinion those hbo and showtime dates should be reserved for legit fights... in my opinion judah doesnt deserve the big show off that fight... to me he showed nothing except he cant deal with pressure vs a fighter that in my opinion is not top 10 caliber... least not yet... and judah just looked slower and a lot less active than his former self... there are some fighters i bet he's get his clock cleaned with on espn which is what he is now.. a espn type fighter... lets see how he does vs kendall holt who hasnt fought in a while... i think a motivated holt beats him... holts not ranked by anybody that i know of.... just saying... he's done and if hbo uses him again as a headliner they are insulting fight fans... just my opinion. he got his chance and looked like shit. and just to add matt was not ness considered a top gun and he was beaten up and almost stopped... the future doesnt look good for the guy... all i see is a brutal knockout coming...
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 9 2010, 05:35 PM) *
you are my man beardo and i hate to keep disagreeing with you but i think judah is lucky he was fighting a matt. a guy that will struggle anytime he faces a boxer or descent fighter... and he still almost lost... some think he did... im on the fence... imagine what a khan or bradley would do to him... or a maidana... even alexander who the jury is really out on MIGHT do... or ortiz... and i can go on and on... maybe he has earned his chance to get his hat served to him but there comes a time when you have to ask yourself WHY?... we know the outcome... in my opinion those hbo and showtime dates should be reserved for legit fights... in my opinion judah doesnt deserve the big show off that fight... to me he showed nothing except he cant deal with pressure vs a fighter that in my opinion is not top 10 caliber... least not yet... and judah just looked slower and a lot less active than his former self... there are some fighters i bet he's get his clock cleaned with on espn which is what he is now.. a espn type fighter... lets see how he does vs kendall holt who hasnt fought in a while... i think a motivated holt beats him... holts not ranked by anybody that i know of.... just saying... he's done and if hbo uses him again as a headliner they are insulting fight fans... just my opinion. he got his chance and looked like shit. and just to add matt was not ness considered a top gun and he was beaten up and almost stopped... the future doesnt look good for the guy... all i see is a brutal knockout coming...

I hear you, JLUV, but I guess I'm just not convinced that Matthysse is lesser caliber than say Maidana or Alexander. And I think that Matthysse would have a decent chance v Khan also.

I agree that he is not as quick and he was definitely less active, but he was also wiser. Matthysse won that fight in my view, but he would have KOed Judah 5 years ago. Zab was smart enough to get the lead and keep himself in contention. I honestly do not think that any of the top guys want to face Matthysse right now.

You may be correct that he is a KO waiting to happen but I did not see it that way the other night. I saw a decent fight between two credible contenders that made each other look bad.

Let's see how each of them do in their next fights.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (Hittman25 @ Nov 9 2010, 01:16 PM) *
I agree with lettermens card.....it was a even fight that shoulda went to matthysse all i can remember from the fight is lucas punishng the body in the early and late rounds and zab taking a knee and him stickin and moving.....i dont think i suffer from this syndrone.......matthysse was landing harder shots through out the fight and he never got hurt by zab


So if you agree with Harold's card, it was a very close fight that could have gone either way... which is in no way the definition of a robbery.
EpTXCHAMP
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 9 2010, 06:35 PM) *
you are my man beardo and i hate to keep disagreeing with you but i think judah is lucky he was fighting a matt. a guy that will struggle anytime he faces a boxer or descent fighter... and he still almost lost... some think he did... im on the fence... imagine what a khan or bradley would do to him... or a maidana... even alexander who the jury is really out on MIGHT do... or ortiz... and i can go on and on... maybe he has earned his chance to get his hat served to him but there comes a time when you have to ask yourself WHY?... we know the outcome... in my opinion those hbo and showtime dates should be reserved for legit fights... in my opinion judah doesnt deserve the big show off that fight... to me he showed nothing except he cant deal with pressure vs a fighter that in my opinion is not top 10 caliber... least not yet... and judah just looked slower and a lot less active than his former self... there are some fighters i bet he's get his clock cleaned with on espn which is what he is now.. a espn type fighter... lets see how he does vs kendall holt who hasnt fought in a while... i think a motivated holt beats him... holts not ranked by anybody that i know of.... just saying... he's done and if hbo uses him again as a headliner they are insulting fight fans... just my opinion. he got his chance and looked like shit. and just to add matt was not ness considered a top gun and he was beaten up and almost stopped... the future doesnt look good for the guy... all i see is a brutal knockout coming...


maidana I think is perfect for zab Imo I think zab could out box him like matthysse don't forget koeltnik out boxed maidana and corley almost did in his last fight.

now he was not as active I noticed that too but I think that had alot to do with matthysse power.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 9 2010, 08:33 PM) *
I hear you, JLUV, but I guess I'm just not convinced that Matthysse is lesser caliber than say Maidana or Alexander. And I think that Matthysse would have a decent chance v Khan also.

I agree that he is not as quick and he was definitely less active, but he was also wiser. Matthysse won that fight in my view, but he would have KOed Judah 5 years ago. Zab was smart enough to get the lead and keep himself in contention. I honestly do not think that any of the top guys want to face Matthysse right now.

You may be correct that he is a KO waiting to happen but I did not see it that way the other night. I saw a decent fight between two credible contenders that made each other look bad.

Let's see how each of them do in their next fights.


i agree matt. deserved to win the fight.. that knock down helped him in my opinion but i knew that fight was close... but.. with that being said i think he is a good fight for an up and comer to test his skill... prime judah, the one that fought tszyu for example, in my opinion murders that dude... I COULD BE DEAD WRONG... but i think that was a fight that showed how far judah has fallen and just where matt stands as a top rated contender... of the elite i think alexander or maybe maidana because of styles would be his best bet but that dude can be completely out boxed... im not sold on the guy other then im willing to bet he is one of the best pure punchers in the division... the way his punches sounded hitting judah impressed me more than the way he fought... to me it was almost like he didnt have a next gear... seems like if he had he would have gotten to judah, who to me looked like setting duck, earlier then he did.. i'm not saying matts. not good... dude certainly has all the potential in the world, but he is lacking something... i cant put my finger on it with that guy... An elite trainer maybe?... i dont know... its like he's the goods but he's not... if that makes sense.... lol... he seems like a guy an emanuel steward would turn into a killer...
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 9 2010, 08:50 PM) *
i agree matt. deserved to win the fight.. that knock down helped him in my opinion but i knew that fight was close... but.. with that being said i think he is a good fight for an up and comer to test his skill... prime judah, the one that fought tszyu for example, in my opinion murders that dude... I COULD BE DEAD WRONG... but i think that was a fight that showed how far judah has fallen and just where matt stands as a top rated contender... of the elite i think alexander or maybe maidana because of styles would be his best bet but that dude can be completely out boxed... im not sold on the guy other then im willing to bet he is one of the best pure punchers in the division... the way his punches sounded hitting judah impressed me more than the way he fought... to me it was almost like he didnt have a next gear... seems like if he had he would have gotten to judah, who to me looked like setting duck, earlier then he did.. i'm not saying matts. not good... dude certainly has all the potential in the world, but he is lacking something... i cant put my finger on it with that guy... An elite trainer maybe?... i dont know... its like he's the goods but he's not... if that makes sense.... lol... he seems like a guy an emanuel steward would turn into a killer...

Have to agree to disagree.

I think Judah does not take a knee five years ago. He plays macho and visits The Land Of Twitch.
King Eugene
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 10 2010, 01:17 AM) *
Have to agree to disagree.

I think Judah does not take a knee five years ago. He plays macho and visits The Land Of Twitch.

That is exactly what I was thinking...just like in the Cotto fight.

That was a totally different Zab in there as far as mentality and head strength. You could tell he wanted to lose his cool after those head butts but he calmed back down and got right back to his game plan. I believe he put in more work in the early rounds that Lucas. He didn't win them decisively but he wont them and a few of the mid rounds as well. He lost the last three no questions asked but he still remained strong. One may say he was just in there to survive. That may be so but when he had for sure openings he took them. His counter uppercuts and straight lefts would have taken anybody else out but Lucas was one tough cat. I feel if he win his mandatory title bout he should give Lucas an automatic rematch.
neophyte7
Bradley and or Alexander go to sleep if Judah catches them with the same upper cuts Matthyse was eating...
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Nov 10 2010, 05:44 AM) *
Bradley and or Alexander go to sleep if Judah catches them with the same upper cuts Matthyse was eating...


Sorry but the guy who showed up Saturday night *isn't* putting Bradley or Alexander to sleep. In order to do that, Judah would need to let his hands go. The guy from Saturday night wasn't.

Judah is DONE. His jab was a non-factor and his left hand was out to lunch for most of the fight.

Zab needs to retire before someone makes him do the Chicken Dance part II...
Maxy
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Nov 10 2010, 12:37 PM) *
Sorry but the guy who showed up Saturday night *isn't* putting Bradley or Alexander to sleep. In order to do that, Judah would need to let his hands go. The guy from Saturday night wasn't.

Judah is DONE. His jab was a non-factor and his left hand was out to lunch for most of the fight.

Zab needs to retire before someone makes him do the Chicken Dance part II...


Agreed.
Hittman25
Ur rite it wasnt a robbery but lucas should have won tho
EpTXCHAMP
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Nov 10 2010, 11:37 AM) *
Sorry but the guy who showed up Saturday night *isn't* putting Bradley or Alexander to sleep. In order to do that, Judah would need to let his hands go. The guy from Saturday night wasn't.

Judah is DONE. His jab was a non-factor and his left hand was out to lunch for most of the fight.

Zab needs to retire before someone makes him do the Chicken Dance part II...


His jab was good the first three rounds but then he stopped using it kind of just pumped it out every now and then. Which is frustrating because the openings were created off the jab once zab stopped using it Mathysse closed in


I believe that had to do with mathysse power. In fights where power is felt zab does not open up as much like against cotto, clottey. But if he does not respect or is bothered by the other guys power we see the hands fly.

Tim and Devon are by no means K.o artists so I think zab would approach them differently but not saying he would beat them, I do think he could hang in there though.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (EpTXCHAMP @ Nov 10 2010, 03:30 PM) *
His jab was good the first three rounds but then he stopped using it kind of just pumped it out every now and then. Which is frustrating because the openings were created off the jab once zab stopped using it Mathysse closed in


I believe that had to do with mathysse power. In fights where power is felt zab does not open up as much like against cotto, clottey. But if he does not respect or is bothered by the other guys power we see the hands fly.


I stand by my statement, his jab was a non-factor. If you have a good jab then it don't matter that the other guy has a good punch...
EpTXCHAMP
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Nov 10 2010, 07:25 PM) *
I stand by my statement, his jab was a non-factor. If you have a good jab then it don't matter that the other guy has a good punch...


not stating that zab has a good constant jab. I have actually stated on here him along with shane waste their fast hands by not ever using the jab well enough. Its looks good at times (like the first 3 rds) when it is used but fades. Second some things take the jab away or force fighters to stop using it as much like power, timing, and speed like pac did to DLH and floyd too.
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