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D-MARV
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Sergio Martinez
4. Wladimir Klitschko
5. Andre Ward
6. Carl Froch
7. Juan Manuel Marquez
8. Juan Manuel Lopez
9. Tim Bradley
10. Lucian Bute
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Nov 28 2010, 01:35 PM) *
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Sergio Martinez
4. Wladimir Klitschko
5. Andre Ward
6. Carl Froch
7. Juan Manuel Marquez
8. Juan Manuel Lopez
9. Tim Bradley
10. Lucian Bute


respectable top 10 but id hve to rank marquez over martinez... i mean as nice of a ko as that was over pwill, that was a ko coming by the first person that could exploit that glaring weakness thats been sticking out there like a sore thumb fight after fight... marquez on the other hand has been putting in the work and very well could be number 2 pound for pound... just my opinion... i think 8 should be jml and gamboa... when they fight next year the winner seals the spot and the loser gets dropped... but i like ya ranking man.. lol... very solid...
Maxy
I don't do these lists but Froch should make anyone's top ten due purely to his resume which has been outstanding the last couple of years.
Run and Gun Game Calls
1. Manny Pacquio

2. Sergio Martinez

3. Floyd Mayweather

4. Wlad Klitchko

5. Juan Marquez

6. Juan lopez

7. Tim Bradley

8. bute

9. Andre ward

10. froch
caneman
RJJ
TITO
LENNOX LEWIS
JAMES TONEY
HOLYFEILD
TYSON
SWEETPEA
SRL
Just kidding p4p ain't shit no more but my how the times have changed, many new names in the mix. The future will be interesting!
gravytrain
1. Sergio Martinez
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Vitali Klitschko
6. Wlad Klitschko
7. Carl Froch
8. Andre Ward
9. Tim Bradley
10. Lucian Bute

I'm solid on my top 5 but the rest were just listed as I thought of them. You cats sleep on Vitali but that dude has a sweeter style than his brother.
Method
May
Hops
Marquez
Paq
Who
The
Fuck
Cares
About
The
Rest...
kidbazooka1
Pac
Floyd
Martinez
Marquez
JuanMa

The rest can be mixed around.
Run and Gun Game Calls
lmfao at method still having hops at #2
EAlbian
1.mayweather/pac (as far as I'm concerned the #1 spot can't be determined until they square up in the ring because a strong argument can be made either way)

2. Martinez (you drop the #3 like that you deserve to be #2)

3. JM Marquez (dude is a warrior)

4. W klitschko (he's held the division since 2005 and beaten everyone he's faced handily)

5. Ward (he's so complete and will win at any cost)

6. Donaire

7. Montiel (I hesitate to put him above Donaire)

8. JM Lopez

9. V. Klitschko (shutting his opponents out, can't knock the man for doing his job)

10. Bradley (clearing out the division and is now fighting the #2 guy, can't ask for more

Froch- great win but he just lost to Kessler and the game plan to beat Abraham was given away by dirrell

Gamboa- I think he beats Lopez but it is an interesting fight and Lopez has accomplished more at this time

Mosley- hasn't been a good year for him but he's still right there

Alexander- had he had a better outing against kotelnik he'd be on the list, take out Bradley and he's right there

Kahn- beat miadana and he's on the list

Hopkins- the pavlik win was too long ago, beat pascal and he's top 5

Cotto- a big win against a name opponent could put him right back up there

Williams- time to pick up the pieces, a devistating ko can ruin a career or make it stronger (see Duran)

BigG
1a. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
1b. Manny Pacquiao
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Juan Manuel Lopez
5. Fernando Montiel
6. Sergio Martinez
7. Bernard Hopkins
8. Yuriorkis Gamboa
9. Andre Ward
10. Nonito Donaire
11. Carl Froch
Fitz
I'm going to do mine quick, but I would imagine mine may look something like this.

  1. Mayweather
  2. Pacquiao
  3. Marquez
  4. Martinez
  5. Hopkins
  6. Montiel
  7. W. Klitschko
  8. Juan Manuel Lopez
  9. Darchinyan
  10. Froch


Guys just outside, and unlucky are Ward, Bradley, Alexander, Gamboa, Pascal, Dawson, Bute, Williams, Cotto, Donaire and Mosley.

It just goes to show how tight it is. Pretty much most names who just finished outside could be close to a swap with any of the others. Most of those guys were probably in the top 12 months ago, lol.
Hopkins is skating on this ice, I only have him up there because he is now in a good and very relevant fight. Though a loss would probably see him out of the 10 for me.
AussieLad
Fucking heck... alot of people have martinez as number 1... this is a classic example of jock riding recent fights.
Fitz
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Nov 29 2010, 08:21 PM) *
Fucking heck... alot of people have martinez as number 1... this is a classic example of jock riding recent fights.


lol, tell me about it.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (Method @ Nov 28 2010, 06:03 PM) *
May
Hops
Marquez
Paq
Who
The
Fuck
Cares
About
The
Rest...



funny shit dude.....lls

lets see......

PBF
PAC
MARQUEZ
MARTINEZ
LOPEZ
KLITSCHKO
BRADLEY

the rest gets a little hazy for me,.... I wanna throw gamboa in,.... maybe berto, hopkins, alexander,....idk....
The CEO
Let's see...the last time I did a full P4P was in March...

QUOTE
1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Mosley
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Bradley
6. Dawson
7. Hopkins
8. Williams
9. Ward
10. Wlad Klitschko


I guess I would have it like this now....

1. Mayweather
2. Marquez
3. Martinez
4. Pacquiao
5. Bradley
6. Montiel
7. Donaire
8. Ward
9. W. Klitschko
10. Segura

I've decided Marquez deserves to ahead of Martinez, Mosley is probably done after the Mayweather loss, Montiel and Donaire's skills can't be denied, and Segura deserves to crack it because of the Calderon KO and a Hell of a year in general...
EAlbian
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 29 2010, 04:19 AM) *
I'm going to do mine quick, but I would imagine mine may look something like this.

  1. Mayweather
  2. Pacquiao
  3. Marquez
  4. Martinez
  5. Hopkins
  6. Montiel
  7. W. Klitschko
  8. Juan Manuel Lopez
  9. Darchinyan
  10. Froch


Guys just outside, and unlucky are Ward, Bradley, Alexander, Gamboa, Pascal, Dawson, Bute, Williams, Cotto, Donaire and Mosley.

It just goes to show how tight it is. Pretty much most names who just finished outside could be close to a swap with any of the others. Most of those guys were probably in the top 12 months ago, lol.
Hopkins is skating on this ice, I only have him up there because he is now in a good and very relevant fight. Though a loss would probably see him out of the 10 for me.



Why Froch over Ward? Froch lost to kessler who Ward handled and Abraham was coming off a loss and was completely outclassed by Dirrell. Donaire and Abegeko also beat Darchinyan handily
Fitz
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Nov 30 2010, 01:38 AM) *
Why Froch over Ward? Froch lost to kessler who Ward handled and Abraham was coming off a loss and was completely outclassed by Dirrell. Donaire and Abegeko also beat Darchinyan handily


Ward has better skills, but Froch has accomplished more. Ward's key wins are Kessler and Green. Froch has wins over Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell and Abraham. Who cares that Darchinyan lost to Donaire, since then, Donaire has done absolutely nothing, while Darchinyan has become undisputed champion and beat Arce and Mijares in ways they have never been beaten before, he became undisputed. Darchinyan did lose against Agbeko when he moved up, but it was a set back. He is top 10, and still undisputed at 115. Darchinyan has a fight against Mares in a few weeks, that will determine how long he stays in the top 10 for.
I like Ward, but the top 10 is so tight, he needs another key win.
gravytrain
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Nov 29 2010, 04:21 AM) *
Fucking heck... alot of people have martinez as number 1... this is a classic example of jock riding recent fights.


Martinez has a sweet style and doesn't epitomize bitchassness so he takes my #1 spot.
AussieLad
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 29 2010, 09:03 PM) *
Martinez has a sweet style and doesn't epitomize bitchassness so he takes my #1 spot.


And yet you have floyd bitchass mayweather ahead of pac.

Maybe you can drop pac down a notch because he hasnt fought a really high quality opponent in a couple of fights, but floyd coasted for years without quality opposition with people cutting him slack. Now one decent win against mosely cements him as number 1 or 2... nea.gif

Cotto, clottey and margarito cumulatively are better than Marquez and Mosley. Cotto was closer to his prime than Mosely. You cant use the 'Floyd fought someone Pac ducked' argument either, as Pac fought Margs whom Floyd ducked shamelessly. And clottey and margarito combined outweigh marquez, when you consider the division floyd forced marquez to fight in, as well as cheating at the scales.
gravytrain
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Nov 29 2010, 04:29 PM) *
And yet you have floyd bitchass mayweather ahead of pac.

Maybe you can drop pac down a notch because he hasnt fought a really high quality opponent in a couple of fights, but floyd coasted for years without quality opposition with people cutting him slack. Now one decent win against mosely cements him as number 1 or 2... nea.gif

Cotto, clottey and margarito cumulatively are better than Marquez and Mosley. Cotto was closer to his prime than Mosely. You cant use the 'Floyd fought someone Pac ducked' argument either, as Pac fought Margs whom Floyd ducked shamelessly. And clottey and margarito combined outweigh marquez, when you consider the division floyd forced marquez to fight in, as well as cheating at the scales.



Mayweather is a better boxer than Pacquiao.

LOL man, Roach himself said a fight wouldn't be made between Pac and the dominant force in boxing that Margarito once was.
EAlbian
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 29 2010, 03:25 PM) *
Ward has better skills, but Froch has accomplished more. Ward's key wins are Kessler and Green. Froch has wins over Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell and Abraham. Who cares that Darchinyan lost to Donaire, since then, Donaire has done absolutely nothing, while Darchinyan has become undisputed champion and beat Arce and Mijares in ways they have never been beaten before, he became undisputed. Darchinyan did lose against Agbeko when he moved up, but it was a set back. He is top 10, and still undisputed at 115. Darchinyan has a fight against Mares in a few weeks, that will determine how long he stays in the top 10 for.
I like Ward, but the top 10 is so tight, he needs another key win.



I gotta disagree, before Pascal Froch had beaten no one and the pascal fight was close. Taylor had just moved up from 160 after losing twice to pavlik, once stopped brutally, and then beat Lacy in a lackluster performance. He then beat dirrell who was completely untested at the time and the win again was debatable. He lost to Kessler, another close fight, and then beat Abraham who was completely outclassed/exposed by dirrell. Ward hasn't reall ever had a close fight, Bika probably the closest, shutout the favorite in Kessler, blew away green, and just beat Bika who I think is tougher than Johnson at this point. I think ward has been more impressive in recent bouts and is the better fighter deserving the higher rating. Of course this is just my opinion. I'd love to see Bika vs Froch or abraham or even Johnson, Showtime should sign the guy. I do agree with you on Vic I just have a hard time rating a guy at the same weight above a fighter that did and still would demolish him, when it comes to p4p I take into account accomplishments/skillset/wins/losses
D-MARV
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 29 2010, 03:25 PM) *
Ward has better skills, but Froch has accomplished more. Ward's key wins are Kessler and Green. Froch has wins over Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell and Abraham. Who cares that Darchinyan lost to Donaire, since then, Donaire has done absolutely nothing, while Darchinyan has become undisputed champion and beat Arce and Mijares in ways they have never been beaten before, he became undisputed. Darchinyan did lose against Agbeko when he moved up, but it was a set back. He is top 10, and still undisputed at 115. Darchinyan has a fight against Mares in a few weeks, that will determine how long he stays in the top 10 for.
I like Ward, but the top 10 is so tight, he needs another key win.

I see where you're coming from but Ward totally outclassed and owned the fighter that beat Froch just a few short months ago. IMO, Bika is more impressive than Taylor. Froch did an excellant job getting the KO but he was down on many cards at the time. I don't remember a fight where Ward was even remotely close to losing.
Fitz
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Nov 30 2010, 11:08 AM) *
I gotta disagree, before Pascal Froch had beaten no one and the pascal fight was close. Taylor had just moved up from 160 after losing twice to pavlik, once stopped brutally, and then beat Lacy in a lackluster performance. He then beat dirrell who was completely untested at the time and the win again was debatable. He lost to Kessler, another close fight, and then beat Abraham who was completely outclassed/exposed by dirrell. Ward hasn't reall ever had a close fight, Bika probably the closest, shutout the favorite in Kessler, blew away green, and just beat Bika who I think is tougher than Johnson at this point. I think ward has been more impressive in recent bouts and is the better fighter deserving the higher rating. Of course this is just my opinion. I'd love to see Bika vs Froch or abraham or even Johnson, Showtime should sign the guy. I do agree with you on Vic I just have a hard time rating a guy at the same weight above a fighter that did and still would demolish him, when it comes to p4p I take into account accomplishments/skillset/wins/losses


Look, I found it hard to rank Froch over Ward, but now, Froch has done more. I think Ward would probably beat Froch, but Froch has had more relevant wins. I'm with you as well that I take accomplishments/skill and other things. I think Ward has the skill set, but Froch has accomplished more. It really isn't a knock on Ward, I like him. It's just so tight, and like I said with my list, I could almost replace anyone just outside my top 10 with some in my top 10. But some have to miss out. Right now, I think Froch has accomplished more, but Ward will get there, as I think he is pretty damn good. Just need a few more.


QUOTE (D-MARV @ Nov 30 2010, 11:26 AM) *
I see where you're coming from but Ward totally outclassed and owned the fighter that beat Froch just a few short months ago. IMO, Bika is more impressive than Taylor. Froch did an excellant job getting the KO but he was down on many cards at the time. I don't remember a fight where Ward was even remotely close to losing.


That's true. But when doing a p4p list, I don't look at that one scenario and make a call on that. You are arguing that Ward hasn't been in a close fight, and I can point out that he hasn't beaten many good names either. He only beat Kessler a few fights ago which was a big win, before that his best win was against a shot Miranda. He is good, and I'm with you, but I think he needs a few more key wins. His best win is Kessler, and after that people are saying his next good win was against Green or Bika. Froch has beaten better names than Ward has at the end of the day, and that's putting it simple.

Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 29 2010, 07:50 PM) *
Mayweather is a better boxer than Pacquiao.

LOL man, Roach himself said a fight wouldn't be made between Pac and the dominant force in boxing that Margarito once was.



Meldrick Taylor was a better boxer than Chavez too, and we all know how that turned out.
thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 29 2010, 10:14 PM) *
Look, I found it hard to rank Froch over Ward, but now, Froch has done more. I think Ward would probably beat Froch, but Froch has had more relevant wins.


Call me crazy, but personally, when I think Fighter A can beat Fighter B and they fight in the same weight division, that usually makes it even easier for me to rank Fighter A higher on my P4P list.

laugh.gif

That's just me though and how I rank my P4P lists. I don't put quite as much stock into resumes. Don't get me wrong, I do think it's important to take that into consideration when forming an opinion about a fighter and their abilities, but for me, bottom line, whoever I think would win the fight, that's who I'm going to rank higher.

I think you had that whole convo about resumes and whatnot in another thread at one point, so I get where you're coming from.

On a side note, I talked to Mosley for you Fitz...just so you'd stop thinking that I hate him for some reason.

laugh.gif
thehype
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 29 2010, 10:19 PM) *
Meldrick Taylor was a better boxer than Chavez too, and we all know how that turned out.


Roy Jones Jr. was a better boxer than Glen Johnson too.

laugh.gif

That being said, we also saw what happened when Chavez fought Whitaker.

laugh.gif

That is all. Carry on.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 29 2010, 10:19 PM) *
Meldrick Taylor was a better boxer than Chavez too, and we all know how that turned out.


I think we know how Mayweather vs Pac is going to turn out too:

Run and Gun Game Calls
I hope the fight happens, when pac shuts floyd down after 3 rounds and beats him, a ton of peeps will be eating crow, or maybe they wont. Always haters who refuse to give deservered credit
AussieLad
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 29 2010, 10:49 PM) *
Not even close. JMM alone trumps The Damaged, The African Heavybag and The Criminal. PBF toyed with both HOFers.


Not when you consider where they were in each of their respective careers, at the times the fights were made. Marquez fighting well outside his weight class against a fighter who failed to make the contractual weight on purpose, Mosely at the tale end of his career.

I agree marquez, p4p and irrespective of weight class, has a better career than margs and clottey put together. But in terms of his accomplishments in the welter division he had literally done nothing. Hell, he hadnt even accomplished anything at jr welter. He was a sacrificial lamb chosen specifically to niggle pac supporters because of the close fights he had with pac. I give floyd zero credit for the marquez win. It was a waste of time, and he needs to brush his teeth with hobo piss for even entertaining the thought of fighting a guy 2 divisions below him, then cheating at the scales

Cotto and Mosely were fairly equal, and had a close fight. But Margs and Clottey are worth more than a blown up marquez

Floyd has gone many years fighting sub par fights. And he is still getting passes from die hard fans who want to believe his hype



AussieLad
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 30 2010, 04:52 AM) *
I think we know how Mayweather vs Pac is going to turn out too:



Yes we do indeed. A non event. Floyd will never fight pac, and will continue to yap from a distance how great he is
Run and Gun Game Calls
very true aussie, easy to be the better fighter when you refuse to fight
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 02:09 AM) *
I hope the fight happens, when pac shuts floyd down after 3 rounds and beats him,......


really.........

QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 02:21 AM) *
very true aussie, easy to be the better fighter when you refuse to fight


or refuse to take a simple blood test aye?
gravytrain
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Nov 30 2010, 01:13 AM) *
Yes we do indeed. A non event. Floyd will never fight pac, and will continue to yap from a distance how great he is


I recall a fight being proposed for November while someone's trainer was awaiting trial.

I suppose there was just a lack of interest in it being made seeing as someone already had two opponents lined up for November. Before that they refused to fight because of a testing clause then found it in their heart to agree to it while there's no possibility of him having to undergo the testing. You know, the fight could have been made when it's huge but it wouldn't have allowed sufficient time to "agree", deny agreeing to, and "agree" to a 14 day cutoff.

QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 01:09 AM) *
I hope the fight happens, when pac shuts floyd down after 3 rounds and beats him, a ton of peeps will be eating crow, or maybe they wont. Always haters who refuse to give deservered credit


LOL that's worse than the motherfucker that thought Mayweather would knock out Sergio Martinez.
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 30 2010, 05:21 AM) *
I recall a fight being proposed for November while someone's trainer was awaiting trial.

I suppose there was just a lack of interest in it being made seeing as someone already had two opponents lined up for November. Before that they refused to fight because of a testing clause then found it in their heart to agree to it while there's no possibility of him having to undergo the testing. You know, the fight could have been made when it's huge but it wouldn't have allowed sufficient time to "agree", deny agreeing to, and "agree" to a 14 day cutoff.



LOL that's worse than the motherfucker that thought Mayweather would knock out Sergio Martinez.



actually the cut off was down to 7 days, and Mayweather decided he just wasnt fighting for the rest of the year instead of openly negoating the fight. So Pac wasnt supposed to move on? Should he have just waited forever till Gayweather decided he could fight?

As for it being worse do you honestly believe that pac has no chance of beating floyd? Really???? Step outside your hate a moment and be unbias. Floyd barely, and i mean barely beat dlh. He doesnt do as well against southpaws, and he likes throwing 16 punches a round and then slipping.

Stay with me now. Floyd is going to be on the shelf a while because of his legal troubles, that combined with his age and recent inactivity already dont bode well for him. he is more flat footed now, and i unlike many dont believe it is by design. He is going to be open to eat straight lefts from pac with his defensive style.

Can floyd beat pac, sure he can, but Pacquio is a damn good fighter, and to dismiss him in that fight is foolish. dont like the catchweights, fine, dont trust him not doing steroids, fine.....he is still a damn good fighter. And a fighter that has a hell of a chance of kicking floyds ass.

You have trash like floyd hurting the name of boxing in the eyes of the general public and so called hard core fans tearing down a fighter like Pac, who could help bring the sport back some..........real smart.
Fitz
QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 30 2010, 02:33 PM) *
Call me crazy, but personally, when I think Fighter A can beat Fighter B and they fight in the same weight division, that usually makes it even easier for me to rank Fighter A higher on my P4P list.

laugh.gif

That's just me though and how I rank my P4P lists. I don't put quite as much stock into resumes. Don't get me wrong, I do think it's important to take that into consideration when forming an opinion about a fighter and their abilities, but for me, bottom line, whoever I think would win the fight, that's who I'm going to rank higher.

I think you had that whole convo about resumes and whatnot in another thread at one point, so I get where you're coming from.


I just can't do lists like that. Styles makes fights. A lot of people had Cotto above Margarito on a p4p list, yet picked Margarito because they saw he could stylistically cause him problems.
Just because I think Froch would lose, doesn't mean I have to rate him higher? I do my lists on facts and things that have happened and what fighters posses. I don't do lists based on future predictions. We are different I suppose, I look at p4p lists based on things I have seen, facts and by observing them as fighters. You make yours based on predicitions you have for fights. Not that it's wrong, we just judge them differently I suppose.

QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 30 2010, 02:33 PM) *
On a side note, I talked to Mosley for you Fitz...just so you'd stop thinking that I hate him for some reason.

laugh.gif


What did you tell him? How one sided the Mayweather fight was, and you knew it was over when he had the face of discouragement show up half way through the fight?

laugh.gif

Just kidding, lol.


Fitz
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 07:18 PM) *
actually the cut off was down to 7 days, and Mayweather decided he just wasnt fighting for the rest of the year instead of openly negoating the fight. So Pac wasnt supposed to move on? Should he have just waited forever till Gayweather decided he could fight?

As for it being worse do you honestly believe that pac has no chance of beating floyd? Really???? Step outside your hate a moment and be unbias. Floyd barely, and i mean barely beat dlh. He doesnt do as well against southpaws, and he likes throwing 16 punches a round and then slipping.

Stay with me now. Floyd is going to be on the shelf a while because of his legal troubles, that combined with his age and recent inactivity already dont bode well for him. he is more flat footed now, and i unlike many dont believe it is by design. He is going to be open to eat straight lefts from pac with his defensive style.

Can floyd beat pac, sure he can, but Pacquio is a damn good fighter, and to dismiss him in that fight is foolish. dont like the catchweights, fine, dont trust him not doing steroids, fine.....he is still a damn good fighter. And a fighter that has a hell of a chance of kicking floyds ass.

You have trash like floyd hurting the name of boxing in the eyes of the general public and so called hard core fans tearing down a fighter like Pac, who could help bring the sport back some..........real smart.


Hey man, I didn't see you in that thread from the other week. I thought you may have missed it. But I never found out what fight Mayweather took lidocaine in right before the fight.








Run and Gun Game Calls
im not sure fitz, the way it was widely reported I assumed it was a common practice for him, and not just used for one fight. But would like more info myself
AussieLad
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 08:18 AM) *
actually the cut off was down to 7 days, and Mayweather decided he just wasnt fighting for the rest of the year instead of openly negoating the fight. So Pac wasnt supposed to move on? Should he have just waited forever till Gayweather decided he could fight?

As for it being worse do you honestly believe that pac has no chance of beating floyd? Really???? Step outside your hate a moment and be unbias. Floyd barely, and i mean barely beat dlh. He doesnt do as well against southpaws, and he likes throwing 16 punches a round and then slipping.

Stay with me now. Floyd is going to be on the shelf a while because of his legal troubles, that combined with his age and recent inactivity already dont bode well for him. he is more flat footed now, and i unlike many dont believe it is by design. He is going to be open to eat straight lefts from pac with his defensive style.

Can floyd beat pac, sure he can, but Pacquio is a damn good fighter, and to dismiss him in that fight is foolish. dont like the catchweights, fine, dont trust him not doing steroids, fine.....he is still a damn good fighter. And a fighter that has a hell of a chance of kicking floyds ass.

You have trash like floyd hurting the name of boxing in the eyes of the general public and so called hard core fans tearing down a fighter like Pac, who could help bring the sport back some..........real smart.


You only have to listen to the way floyd snr and roger talk about pac. One minute its "he'd be easy work for floyd", the next its " that guys on the A-side meth" and "i have concerns about my sons life". They know what the score is. If floyd steps in with pac, he isnt gauranteed to win. He's in with a guy with serious speed, excelent footwork, decent pop, and an aggressive style.

Its almost as if they are pacs biggest fans. Any other guy around this weight that could generate that sort of money, the mayweathers would be in there in a second signing that contract. I think they have inflated the risk he poses in their own minds a little too much, to the point its getting in the way of business. Floyd definitely has a good chance to beat pac, i just wonder whether floyd jnr and snr genuinely think the same?
thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 30 2010, 03:44 AM) *
You make yours based on predicitions you have for fights. Not that it's wrong, we just judge them differently I suppose.


Not true at all. In order to have some kind of idea on how one will perform in the future, I have to take into consideration what was done in the past, so I wouldn't say I don't put any value on what someone has accomplished. Case in point, when Ricky Hatton beat Kostya Tszyu, he didn't automatically jump into my Top 10 list based solely on the fact that, up until that point, I didn't think he accomplished anything of note. I just don't put AS MUCH value on a person's resume as others when making my final decision. In other words, I'm not necessarily going to penalize a guy simply because he hasn't fought quite as many big names. So in the case of Ward and Froch, although Ward hasn't fought quite as many big names as Froch, I've seen enough out of him in the big names that he has fought to think that his style will notch him the victory over Froch, therefore, I rate him higher on my own P4P list. So it's not just about "predictions", as you so eloquently summed up, but that does play a final factor in my decision. On the flip side, I'm not so sure if you can make a true P4P list simply based on resumes, as I don't really know how easy it is to compare the talent in one division to the talent in another division. I mean, in my opinion, I think the Klitschkos should be somewhere in the P4P conversation, however, I don't think the talent on their resumes stacks up to the talent on say Pacquiao's resume. You know what I mean?

But anyway...like I said...to each their own. P4P lists are just fictional and opinionated, so everyone's list is right in one way or another.

QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 30 2010, 03:44 AM) *
What did you tell him? How one sided the Mayweather fight was, and you knew it was over when he had the face of discouragement show up half way through the fight?

laugh.gif

Just kidding, lol.


Actually, I told him, "There's some fool by the name of Fitz on our message board who swears up and down that I don't like you."

To which, he simply laughed and replied, "Tell that keyboard warrior to stay out of grown folks' business!"

laugh.gif

Just kidding.
Method
QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 30 2010, 10:24 AM) *
In order to have some kind of idea on how one will perform in the future, I have to take into consideration what was done in the past, so I wouldn't say I don't put any value on what someone has accomplished. Case in point, when Ricky Hatton beat Kostya Tszyu, he didn't automatically jump into my Top 10 list based solely on the fact that, up until that point, I didn't think he accomplished anything of note. I just don't put AS MUCH value on a person's resume as others when making my final decision. In other words, I'm not necessarily going to penalize a guy simply because he hasn't fought quite as many big names. So in the case of Ward and Froch, although Ward hasn't fought quite as many big names as Froch, I've seen enough out of him in the big names that he has fought to think that his style will notch him the victory over Froch, therefore, I rate him higher on my own P4P list. So it's not just about "predictions", as you so eloquently summed up, but that does play a final factor in my decision. On the flip side, I'm not so sure if you can make a true P4P list simply based on resumes, as I don't really know how easy it is to compare the talent in one division to the talent in another division.

Exactly.

How Sergio Martinez or Carl Froch can be ranked so high is absolutely lost on me. Sergio Martinez did what? Beat Paul Williams? Once? Carl Froch is garbage. I still dont care what anyone says. Guys get one win and boom, they're # 1 on a P4P list...or top 5? Give me a break. I appreciate Martinez as much as I did a lot of b-caliber guys...but he is not the total package. Period. End.

That's pretty much why I only recognize a top handful of guys, and not 10. Im not going to fill in spots just to arrive at 10.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 03:18 AM) *
actually the cut off was down to 7 days, and Mayweather decided he just wasnt fighting for the rest of the year instead of openly negoating the fight. So Pac wasnt supposed to move on? Should he have just waited forever till Gayweather decided he could fight?


Alright, name me one premier fighter that's taking a high profile fight when there's a possibility they wont have their trainer. Even Pacquiao said he wouldn't take a fight if he was uncertain about Roach. Why the double standard? Are you just going to buy into all the bullshit from one fighter and not the other? That fight was never going to happen in November. Pacquiao knew it, Bob Arum knew it, Mayweather knew it, everyone involved with both parties knew it. The thing is one person used it as an opportunity and the other let them use it as an opportunity.

Pac had already moved on, team Pac was moved on from a Mayweather fight the minute they started sending contracts to Mayweather's people. By Arum's own admission he didn't live up to his promise of an exclusivity period, was that by chance? I'm thinking it was always going to be Cotto or Margarito in November.

QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 03:18 AM) *
As for it being worse do you honestly believe that pac has no chance of beating floyd? Really???? Step outside your hate a moment and be unbias. Floyd barely, and i mean barely beat dlh. He doesnt do as well against southpaws, and he likes throwing 16 punches a round and then slipping.


I'm being unbiased. How are you being unbiased using the bigger De La Hoya? Is Pac the bigger man in the fight?

Pac has been looking good when he has the luxury of being able to throw himself on the ropes and take some shots just to test people and throwing punches when fighters have no real chance of beating him but Mayweather is going to show the difference between fighting a fighter on top of his game and going against fighters that have lost a step or weren't very good to begin with. It's not like I think Pac will get shutdown, but he's not winning this fight.



QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 03:18 AM) *
Stay with me now. Floyd is going to be on the shelf a while because of his legal troubles, that combined with his age and recent inactivity already dont bode well for him. he is more flat footed now, and i unlike many dont believe it is by design. He is going to be open to eat straight lefts from pac with his defensive style.


LOL you really believe that? If they're going to fight, I mean really going to fight, Mayweather probably wont even have his trial before the fight.

How's he going to eat those straight lefts from Pac? Sure, Pac is bound to land some punches, but those lefts hands are going to be coming from a far enough distance to let him move out of the way.


QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 03:18 AM) *
Can floyd beat pac, sure he can, but Pacquio is a damn good fighter, and to dismiss him in that fight is foolish. dont like the catchweights, fine, dont trust him not doing steroids, fine.....he is still a damn good fighter. And a fighter that has a hell of a chance of kicking floyds ass.

You have trash like floyd hurting the name of boxing in the eyes of the general public and so called hard core fans tearing down a fighter like Pac, who could help bring the sport back some..........real smart.


LOL man, so I'm dismissing Pac by saying he'd lose when you've some ridiculous shit like Pac winning 9-3. Sounds like you need to pay him some rent. Sure, he has a chance to beat Mayweather. Everybody has a chance to beat their opponent. This fight is a lot of hype and I think it's not going to live up to expectations at all, and if they want to make Mayweather the underdog I'll be happy to drop lots of money on him.

Pac isn't bringing back shit, he's doing the same shit Mayweather has been doing: taking money fights. He's going to make his money then retire and doesn't care what happens in the mean time. For his opponent list, and I mean real opponent list and not hypothetical fights, to be a Cotto rematch, Marg rematch, and Mosley it lets you know what time it's.



Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 30 2010, 07:02 PM) *
Alright, name me one premier fighter that's taking a high profile fight when there's a possibility they wont have their trainer. Even Pacquiao said he wouldn't take a fight if he was uncertain about Roach. Why the double standard? Are you just going to buy into all the bullshit from one fighter and not the other? That fight was never going to happen in November. Pacquiao knew it, Bob Arum knew it, Mayweather knew it, everyone involved with both parties knew it. The thing is one person used it as an opportunity and the other let them use it as an opportunity.


Are you serious? Many fighters change trainers before big fights. Dlh for example, shane mosley firing his father ect.ect.ect. In fact doesnt floyd have floyd sr. still in his corner? Supposed legendary trainer and the one who taught him his style? Also if the fight was never going to happen then why were back room talks going on?




QUOTE
I'm being unbiased. How are you being unbiased using the bigger De La Hoya? Is Pac the bigger man in the fight?


So was margarito. Oscar didnt press floyd and bully floyd with his size. In fact on fight night floyd looked to be the bigger stronger fighter. It was a boxing match, and when Oscar threw the jab floyd didnt do anything.


QUOTE
LOL you really believe that? If they're going to fight, I mean really going to fight, Mayweather probably wont even have his trial before the fight.


He has a court date set for the end of jan. Then he might be able to plan something. But right now he cannot move on with a fight. They are not going to invest millions into a fight to see it fall through. With his continued trouble with the law, his bond could even be revoked at the next trial date. Is it likely, no but its also something you dont throw millions into without knowing if it is going to pay off.

QUOTE
How's he going to eat those straight lefts from Pac? Sure, Pac is bound to land some punches, but those lefts hands are going to be coming from a far enough distance to let him move out of the way.


floyd doesnt move in and out anymore and has been very inactive. I think he will be attempting to shoulder roll and clinch to avoid the punches instead of burn his energy. The straight lefts in fact wont be thrown from far away.




QUOTE
LOL man, so I'm dismissing Pac by saying he'd lose when you've some ridiculous shit like Pac winning 9-3. Sounds like you need to pay him some rent. Sure, he has a chance to beat Mayweather. Everybody has a chance to beat their opponent. This fight is a lot of hype and I think it's not going to live up to expectations at all, and if they want to make Mayweather the underdog I'll be happy to drop lots of money on him.


I didnt say pac would win 9-3, I said after 3 rounds pac would take over. He will stop floyd late or win by a score of like 6-4 with a knockdown in there somewhere. I see floyd turtling up and hiding to protect himself once he gets wracked with a few very quick hard combinations.

QUOTE
Pac isn't bringing back shit, he's doing the same shit Mayweather has been doing: taking money fights. He's going to make his money then retire and doesn't care what happens in the mean time. For his opponent list, and I mean real opponent list and not hypothetical fights, to be a Cotto rematch, Marg rematch, and Mosley it lets you know what time it's.


I agree I hate both fighters recent opponents.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Method @ Nov 30 2010, 10:46 AM) *
Exactly.

How Sergio Martinez or Carl Froch can be ranked so high is absolutely lost on me. Sergio Martinez did what? Beat Paul Williams? Once? Carl Froch is garbage. I still dont care what anyone says. Guys get one win and boom, they're # 1 on a P4P list...or top 5? Give me a break. I appreciate Martinez as much as I did a lot of b-caliber guys...but he is not the total package. Period. End.

That's pretty much why I only recognize a top handful of guys, and not 10. Im not going to fill in spots just to arrive at 10.


Damn method... we are starting to agree on some things... roflmao!!!!.... you took the words outta my mouth on sergio man... one win over pwill doesnt make dude top 3 p4p... id say his name should be mentioned in that top 10 listing but not top 3... in my opinion the top 3 is reserved for 3 guys... may, pac, and jmm and i dont really care what order they are put in... just my thoughts...
gravytrain
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 03:41 PM) *
Are you serious? Many fighters change trainers before big fights. Dlh for example, shane mosley firing his father ect.ect.ect. In fact doesnt floyd have floyd sr. still in his corner? Supposed legendary trainer and the one who taught him his style? Also if the fight was never going to happen then why were back room talks going on?



Yeah, and they've that trainer throughout the whole camp and on fight night. That potentially wouldn't have been the case with Roger Mayweather. Plus there's a question of whether or not Mayweather would want his dad as his trainer, DLH and Mosley made the choice to move on. Is Mayweather some B fighter like Clottey that gets told what time to show up for the fight and has no choice but to be a yesman? If Mayweather tried to tell Pac to fight him on a date of Mayweather's choosing when there's uncertainty as to whether or not his trainer would be available you'd probably be talking about how Mayweather isn't trying to fight.

There were a lot of back room talks going on. Pac/Mayweather, Pac/Cotto, and Pac/Margarito. The proposed Mayweather fight was just brought to the forefront because it'd make bigger news. However, history has shown that the fight wasn't going to happen http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29838 . A possible Mayweather fight would just be on ESPN constantly and get a lot of attention, more attention than announcing Pac fight Margarito or Cotto in November. Not to mention that it "silenced" all doubts about whether or not Pac would take the tests and if he was scared of Mayweather.



QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 03:41 PM) *
So was margarito. Oscar didnt press floyd and bully floyd with his size. In fact on fight night floyd looked to be the bigger stronger fighter. It was a boxing match, and when Oscar threw the jab floyd didnt do anything.


Come on, man. Margarito is shit now and you know it. The vast majority of people on here gave him no chance and Roach said the fight would have never happened with the Margarito of old. You sure you want to use Margarito as an example?

Mayweather and DLH are more comparable in size, Pac and Mayweather aren't.


QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 03:41 PM) *
He has a court date set for the end of jan. Then he might be able to plan something. But right now he cannot move on with a fight. They are not going to invest millions into a fight to see it fall through. With his continued trouble with the law, his bond could even be revoked at the next trial date. Is it likely, no but its also something you dont throw millions into without knowing if it is going to pay off.


Do you know why I highlighted millions? Because that's what Mayweather has. This isn't some cat from the block that's going to have a public defender, this is a high profile athlete based out of Las Vegas. In all honesty I think Mayweather gets probation and a lot of community service for his biggest legal problem, the guy saying Mayweather tried to run him off the road will be dismissed, and the security guard will probably settle out of court. Unless Mayweather fucks up between January and the date his actual trial is postponed to he's still going to be an active fighter capable of taking a fight.



QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 03:41 PM) *
floyd doesnt move in and out anymore and has been very inactive. I think he will be attempting to shoulder roll and clinch to avoid the punches instead of burn his energy. The straight lefts in fact wont be thrown from far away.



His last two fights are Marquez and Mosley, is an economical fighter like Mayweather going to do more than he's to?


QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 03:41 PM) *
I didnt say pac would win 9-3, I said after 3 rounds pac would take over. He will stop floyd late or win by a score of like 6-4 with a knockdown in there somewhere. I see floyd turtling up and hiding to protect himself once he gets wracked with a few very quick hard combinations.



I agree I hate both fighters recent opponents.


laugh.gif

What's Pac going to do to dominate this opponent? I think you're using what Pac has done against his current opposition with a fighter infinitely better than his current opposition. Mayweather isn't going to be standing straight up like a dick on wedding night, inching forward, and offering no technique whatsoever.
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 30 2010, 08:01 PM) *
Yeah, and they've that trainer throughout the whole camp and on fight night. That potentially wouldn't have been the case with Roger Mayweather. Plus there's a question of whether or not Mayweather would want his dad as his trainer, DLH and Mosley made the choice to move on. Is Mayweather some B fighter like Clottey that gets told what time to show up for the fight and has no choice but to be a yesman? If Mayweather tried to tell Pac to fight him on a date of Mayweather's choosing when there's uncertainty as to whether or not his trainer would be available you'd probably be talking about how Mayweather isn't trying to fight.



So floyd sr training him wasnt an option??? ok if you say so


QUOTE
Do you know why I highlighted millions? Because that's what Mayweather has. This isn't some cat from the block that's going to have a public defender, this is a high profile athlete based out of Las Vegas. In all honesty I think Mayweather gets probation and a lot of community service for his biggest legal problem, the guy saying Mayweather tried to run him off the road will be dismissed, and the security guard will probably settle out of court. Unless Mayweather fucks up between January and the date his actual trial is postponed to he's still going to be an active fighter capable of taking a fight.



people thought that of Tyson during the rape trial as well. Plexaco burris thought he would get a slap on the wrist too, so did mike vick.


QUOTE
What's Pac going to do to dominate this opponent? I think you're using what Pac has done against his current opposition with a fighter infinitely better than his current opposition. Mayweather isn't going to be standing straight up like a dick on wedding night, inching forward, and offering no technique whatsoever.



I never said mayweather would did I, The thing your not taking into account is that Pac is better than anyone floyd has ever fought as well. I dont think floyd is gonna stand up and eat punches, but after eating alot of hard straight left hand counters, I see floyd turtling up to avoid them and trying to pot shot pac. Without the legs that he has depended on for so long he will do alot of covering up. And at that point i see pac eating floyds ribs up.







JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 06:11 PM) *
I never said mayweather would did I, The thing your not taking into account is that Pac is better than anyone floyd has ever fought as well. I dont think floyd is gonna stand up and eat punches, but after eating alot of hard straight left hand counters, I see floyd turtling up to avoid them and trying to pot shot pac. Without the legs that he has depended on for so long he will do alot of covering up. And at that point i see pac eating floyds ribs up.


i seriously doubt floyds legs are gone or doesnt have the legs he used to... lol... do you say that cuzz he stood in the pocket with mosley or because freddie roach said so?... i never got freddie's idea behind that logic... my idea of fighters with "legs that are gone" are guys that cant move around the ring anymore... mayweather seems to be on top of his game last i saw he just fought marquez and mo with a different more flatfooted style than we had been accustomed to seeing and i think that was due to him growing into a true welterweight during that year he took off... im quite sure he is very capable of the more fleet footed style as well tho im not to sure he'll need that if he fights pac... my opinion is he fights and makes pac look just like mosley in their fight... just my opinion... i really dont think its an entertaining fight if its signed and made...
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 04:18 AM) *
Step outside your hate a moment and be unbias.....



says the guy who is advertising Mayweather running for his life from Pac..
Run and Gun Game Calls
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 30 2010, 10:20 PM) *
i seriously doubt floyds legs are gone or doesnt have the legs he used to... lol... do you say that cuzz he stood in the pocket with mosley or because freddie roach said so?... i never got freddie's idea behind that logic... my idea of fighters with "legs that are gone" are guys that cant move around the ring anymore... mayweather seems to be on top of his game last i saw he just fought marquez and mo with a different more flatfooted style than we had been accustomed to seeing and i think that was due to him growing into a true welterweight during that year he took off... im quite sure he is very capable of the more fleet footed style as well tho im not to sure he'll need that if he fights pac... my opinion is he fights and makes pac look just like mosley in their fight... just my opinion... i really dont think its an entertaining fight if its signed and made...



The reason I say that about his legs not being what they used to be is simple.

1. He is a bigger fighter now so of course he carries more weight around the ring. He also has been in the pocket his last 2 fights. By design? Maybe, but in my opinion he just isnt as fleet footed as he once was.

2. His age, father time waits for no man (except hopkins). he is at the age when flashy speed fighters start to slow down and come back to the pack.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Nov 30 2010, 06:31 PM) *
The reason I say that about his legs not being what they used to be is simple.

1. He is a bigger fighter now so of course he carries more weight around the ring. He also has been in the pocket his last 2 fights. By design? Maybe, but in my opinion he just isnt as fleet footed as he once was.

2. His age, father time waits for no man (except hopkins). he is at the age when flashy speed fighters start to slow down and come back to the pack.


we both may be right to a degree but i see nothing in pac that the last mayweather or any mayweather for that matter would struggle with... maybe im missing something but i see nothing absolutely nothing in pac that bothers may... thats not to take anything away from pac... im a long time fan... actually im a fan of both i just think the difference in the skill set of the two is very visual... pac cant avoid a punch where may is hardly hit especially lately.... his defense has seemed to have tightened up more lately in my opinion... hopefully the fight will be made at some point in time... if we dont see it next year i doubt we see it...
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