Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Juan Manuel Marquez vs. Miguel Cotto
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
BigG
Who wins?
Hops
This will be a boxing match. I think Cotto wins. I know people will say that guys who beat Cotto are those come-forward power punching granite-chinned machines.
BrutalBodyShots
Marquez by stoppage, probably on cuts.

Cotto being the naturally bigger guy does well for the first half of the fight... probably an even fight on the cards after 6 or Cotto even up a point due to a knockdown of Marquez with a left hook. The second half of the fight I say is all Marquez with him constantly snapping Cotto's head back with great combinations. By the 10th or 11th Cotto is in his usual "I've taken too much punishment and am going to stay in retreat mode" while Marquez presses forward the way we saw in the final round last Saturday. If Cotto is able to stay on his feet for the last few rounds without getting stopped, Marquez wins 116-112, 115-112 if he gets knocked down once.

mexi-cutioner
Cotto wins this. At this point in his career, and judging from the Mayweather bout, Marquez has NO business fighting higher than 135 or 140.
streetlion1
The fight shouldnt happen because Marquez doesnt belong at 147. I would pick Cotto by K.O. I dont think Marquez would stand up to the power but he would land some nice shots on Cotto also.....but I dont think he can hurt Cotto.

Cotto jabs and bullies the smaller man and eventually stops him by going to his body.
EpTXCHAMP
There are reasons why boxing has weight classes this would be one of them although precise with his punches Marq is too small Cotto by late K.o after wearing him down and pressuring him to the finish
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (mexi-cutioner @ Nov 29 2010, 10:35 AM) *
Cotto wins this. At this point in his career, and judging from the Mayweather bout, Marquez has NO business fighting higher than 135 or 140.


Cotto isn't Mayweather. Not even close. I'm not sure why everyone is judging Marquez based on the Mayweather fight. Cotto would look just as bad at 147 against Mayweather, and probably get stopped late against him where Marquez didn't. Does that mean Cotto "has no business" at 147? Obviously not. Baldomir and Mosley also got shut out (or in Mosley's case won a single round) against Mayweather. Does that mean those guys shouldn't be fighting at 147 either?

BrutalBodyShots
I guess I'm on my own with taking Marquez in this potential matchup, lol. Big G, what do you think? You started the topic but didn't give your breakdown...

Here's a little more of an in depth look at my reasoning and why I think Marquez would win this.

Sure Cotto is the bigger, stronger guy... here's the problem though. When Cotto was at 140 and undefeated, to me he seemed like a much better fighter than he is today in terms of muscling around his opponent, doing work on the inside, landing brutal body shots, and showing he was the bigger, stronger guy. Since going to 147 he's fought 4 top opponents... and went 2-2 in those fights, and the 2 wins were razor thin, arguable losses in Mosley and Clottey. The argument can be made that he's 0-4 against his last top 4 opponents... but regardless of that he's taken 2 big beatings in those 4 fights and a decent amount of damage in the other 2. Not a good thing for longevity.

Cotto in all of these fights, generally speaking has gone more to pure boxing than grinding his opponent out of there. Maybe the "give and take" style doesn't suit him any longer having being badly stopped twice? Who knows. He's found the most success when establishing his jab and boxing... like against Mosley, in the first few rounds against Pacquiao, when he was out of harms way against Margarito, etc. I think Cotto has become a fighter that simply doesn't like to get hit so this style suits him better. And for good reason, he's good at it. He won rounds against all of the above top fighters by using a great jab and decent movement.

NOW, Marquez in my view is the most superior boxer Cotto would have faced... he has a better jab, fundamentals and counter punching skills than Cotto's previous opponents. I think Marquez' skills would negate a lot of what Cotto does in there. Where Cotto was winning rounds fairly clearly against those other guys they'd be contested on more even terms against Marquez because Marquez is a better pure boxer. This is why I say they'd fight on nearly even terms for the first half of the fight. This is the half where I feel it would be more technical.

HOWEVER, if Cotto did fight like he did back at 140 and come in there trying to put the hurt on Marquez, I think he'd have a much better shot. My feeling though is if he did go against his natural desire to box more as of late and try to force a brawl with Marquez that Marquez' resiliency and tenacity at least for the first 5-6 rounds would be more than enough to deter Cotto from continuing with this game plan. Sure Cotto may trap Marquez on the ropes a handful of times in say round 2-4, but at these times I think Marquez gives at least as good as he gets... and with greater resiliency I think it deters Cotto back to a safer, boxing style... which then kind of takes away his main advantage of being the bigger, stronger guy.

Everyone picking Cotto above picks him because they say Marquez is too small for 147... and no doubt Marquez would be outweighed by 15 pounds on fight night against Cotto. My take on it though is that if Cotto doesn't (or can't sustain) fight as the bigger, stronger guy and he gives up that advantage it's back to a battle of the boxers.

Like I said previously, Cotto does well with this so it would be competitive... but Marquez' superior counter punching and most important combination punching I think overall he gets the better of it. Over the course of the fight I see this swelling Cotto's eyes and as we've seen lately making him bleed. While he's not as strong of a puncher as Cotto's recent opponents, Marquez is certainly just as sharp/accurate if not more than those guys so cuts are a near definite case on Cotto in my view. This is how I see the fight possibly getting stopped late.

I actually think today's Cotto at 147 has a tougher time against Marquez than the old Cotto at 140 based on Cotto's change in style coupled with the damage he's taken in the last few years.

Bottom line is this fight comes down to a great little man verses a good big man in my opinion.
TheFonz
It would look like juanma vs rafael marquez.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Nov 29 2010, 06:39 PM) *
It would look like juanma vs rafael marquez.


Nah... I don't think it's fair to compare Cotto who's lost via 2 beatings/stoppages to a guy that's undefeated and taken far less damage.

gravytrain
I think Marquez could take him. Even if Cotto wins the first 5 he'll be getting tired shortly after, even in the early stages of the fight I think Cotto has fell off enough for Marquez to win a conservative battle then turn it up once Cotto starts backing up around the ring from corner to corner.
kidbazooka1
Marquez style would trouble Cotto big time it would be a tough fight but i give Marquez the edge due to his overall superior skill.
BigG
Juan Manuel Marquez is better than Rafael Marquez and Juan Manuel Lopez as much as I'm a fan of Cotto, is better than Cotto and tougher.

BoxingStill#1
cotto by early round stoppage..........



if it goes past six its marquez' fight.........



good fight though
TheFonz
Marquez was fat, slow footed and his punches had no pop at 147.

Marquez > Cotto P4P, but he will be fighting a guy that walks around at middle weight between fights.
JLUVBABY
cotto is on a decline... marg and pac took loads out of that dude... marquez by late ko or tko or ud... however it comes... actually i think marquez could build into a solid 147 lber if he took the right steps to do it slowly... his problem is im not sure he has that kind of time at his age....
frankypc
IMHOP I think is crazy...Marquez spent most of the fight against Katsidis in the ropes same thing with the first Juan Diaz fight. And its simple He doesnt have the same legs anymore. He is not getting out of harms way as he used to he is taking punichment in there, his conditioning and heart helps him overcome that in lower weights, 135 and 140. I dont think the same formula will translate to a fight with Cotto at 147, he will get hit alot with the hardest punches he has ever taken and if he stays in the ropes with cotto will be game over....

I dont mean to disrespect Marquez, he is the better boxer, but he is to small to 147+
sweetscientist1
QUOTE (frankypc @ Nov 30 2010, 11:37 AM) *
IMHOP I think is crazy...Marquez spent most of the fight against Katsidis in the ropes same thing with the first Juan Diaz fight. And its simple He doesnt have the same legs anymore. He is not getting out of harms way as he used to he is taking punichment in there, his conditioning and heart helps him overcome that in lower weights, 135 and 140. I dont think the same formula will translate to a fight with Cotto at 147, he will get hit alot with the hardest punches he has ever taken and if he stays in the ropes with cotto will be game over....

I dont mean to disrespect Marquez, he is the better boxer, but he is to small to 147+

Last I checked. Cotto fights around 154lbs at Jr. Middleweight and Marguez was at 135lbs this paast weekend. Where the hell did this conversation come from?
TheFonz
QUOTE (sweetscientist1 @ Nov 30 2010, 03:02 PM) *
Last I checked. Cotto fights around 154lbs at Jr. Middleweight and Marguez was at 135lbs this paast weekend. Where the hell did this conversation come from?



It doesn't make sense to me either.


Note: Just because Pac did it doesn't mean JMM can.
frankypc
The thread is called Juan Manuel Marques vs Miguel Cotto, first post asks "Who wins?". And thats my opinion right there. I assume if the fight was going to be made it would be at 147 since i doubt Cotto would go lower than and Marquez surely would not go north of that weight either...Its not that hard to understand.
BrutalBodyShots
Size advantages aren't significant when the "bigger" guy doesn't fight big... and when the smaller guy is the greater fighter.

Very good/great little man verses good big man... give me the little guy.

BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 30 2010, 08:47 PM) *
Prime Cotto at 147 spanks Marquez and stops him.


I agree. But I feel today's Cotto is maybe 70% of prime. I don't think that's enough to get it done. Cotto isn't rough enough any more and isn't nearly as resilient; he can't sustain a "give and take" type fight now the way he could years ago. Now by the mid point of a fight in which he's taking damage (he would against Marquez) he starts retreating more and fighting like he's in for the long haul which neutralizes his size advantage and IMO makes him ordinary. While he looked great in the opening rounds against the top opponents he's faced, he looks ordinary to shot in the late rounds.

BrutalBodyShots
Good point about Cotto being physically less strong than those guys he faced.

Thing with Marquez that I think works wonders for him is his combination punching skills... with accuracy. He puts his shots better together than any of the guys on the list, Pacquiao included. Where Pacquiao would get off 3-4 shots against Cotto, Marquez will often go with 5-6, and his accuracy is insane. I think Cotto will get busted up with these accurate shots and cut by mid fight. Also when Cotto does land something meaningful of his own he's going to see huge return fire from Marquez... cuz that's just the kind of fighter he is, and I think that will make Cotto more weary as the fight goes on.

Marquez can fight at a high work rate level too, I believe on par with the guys Cotto has faced recently.

Sai
I'm taking Juan Manuel Marquez in this one. Cotto will continue to come forward as always and he'll be dissected the whole night.

Marquez can fight in the center of the ring, on the ropes and in a phone booth.

Too much technical brillance.
Lil-lightsout
I would take Cotto in this one in an exciting scrap. I think Cotto would be too powerful for him and do some damage as Marquez lays on the ropes. JMM has been down and hurt so many times by smaller fighters, and even though that tough bastard always gets up and fights even harder, would he be able to withstand Cotto's power?
The Original MrFactor
Interesting fight. Although i think that 147 may be too big for JMM, I'd bet that he'd give Cotto a run for his moneyin the fight. I think we could see the return of the devastating body puncher that Cotto once was. Cotto blasted Quintanna with some devastating body punches. I think Cotto gets there with JMM and eventually ends it in the 9th. I like JMM, but I dont think his shots will effect Cotto to where he backs off and tries to box. I think we will see Cotto get hit and his head snapped back, but not enough damage will be done to make him back off. Cotto TKO9. JMM wont be able to continue because of a body shot.
TheFonz
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 30 2010, 10:07 PM) *
Good point about Cotto being physically less strong than those guys he faced.

Thing with Marquez that I think works wonders for him is his combination punching skills... with accuracy. He puts his shots better together than any of the guys on the list, Pacquiao included. Where Pacquiao would get off 3-4 shots against Cotto, Marquez will often go with 5-6, and his accuracy is insane. I think Cotto will get busted up with these accurate shots and cut by mid fight. Also when Cotto does land something meaningful of his own he's going to see huge return fire from Marquez... cuz that's just the kind of fighter he is, and I think that will make Cotto more weary as the fight goes on.

Marquez can fight at a high work rate level too, I believe on par with the guys Cotto has faced recently.



Doubt it. Manny was able to that because of his legs. Marquez doesn't not have that benefit. Marquez for the most part is a stationary target, and is an ORTHODOX boxer. He cannot duplicate what Manny did to Cotto.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Dec 1 2010, 08:33 AM) *
Doubt it. Manny was able to that because of his legs. Marquez doesn't not have that benefit. Marquez for the most part is a stationary target, and is an ORTHODOX boxer. He cannot duplicate what Manny did to Cotto.


Um, legs are planted when throwing combinations... lol. Pacquiao's superior legs to Marquez certainly would allow him to get into better position and/or provide different angles to Cotto superior to Marquez, but that doesn't change the fact that when Marquez plants his feet he throws combinations in bunches in excess of what Pacquiao typically puts together.

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.