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thehype
I keep trying to explain to people that when it comes to making a fight, you ALWAYS have to think like a promoter...and when it comes to promoters, bottom line, it's ALWAYS about the money. These quotes from Bob Arum pretty much sum up how EVERY promoter thinks:

QUOTE
“Don’t say, ‘most people.’ Say, ‘most boxing people,’ ” Arum said. “You have to understand that for a fight of this magnitude, the boxing people are a small percentage of the entire audience. For the Margarito fight, [which sold 1.15 million on pay-per-view], boxing people accounted for 150,000, maybe 200,000 buys. The rest is the general public.

“The boxing people said they were going to boycott Margarito, but I wasn’t worried, because they’re boxing fans and I know they’re going to want to see the fight. These kinds of big fights are successful when you reach the casual, non-boxing fan. The casual sports fan knows Mosley. He’s fought (Oscar) De La Hoya twice and Mayweather. He’s a recognizable name. No matter how great a fighter he may be, those people have no idea who Juan Manuel Marquez is.”


And you know what? Everything he says is 100% accurate.

laugh.gif

So because of that, expect Pacquiao vs. Mosley on May 7, 2011 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, Nevada....although I do believe there's a slim (very slim) possibility that the fight gets bumped up to April.

Be sure to come back and reference this thread when the fight is officially announced.

laugh.gif
D-MARV
QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 29 2010, 09:14 PM) *
I keep trying to explain to people that when it comes to making a fight, you ALWAYS have to think like a promoter...and when it comes to promoters, bottom line, it's ALWAYS about the money. These quotes from Bob Arum pretty much sum up how EVERY promoter thinks:



And you know what? Everything he says is 100% accurate.

laugh.gif

So because of that, expect Pacquiao vs. Mosley on May 7, 2011 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, Nevada....although I do believe there's a slim (very slim) possibility that the fight gets bumped up to April.

Be sure to come back and reference this thread when the fight is officially announced.

laugh.gif


What will the catch weight be?
thehype
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Nov 29 2010, 09:32 PM) *
What will the catch weight be?


No catchweight. Welterweight fight. 147 pounds.
Box in Hand
Man Mosely is gone get the living baby shit beat out of him. And yes the casual fan drives boxing and I hate sitting in a room with them. They don't know shit about boxing trying to talk like they do.
gravytrain
It's not really surprising, to be honest I thought Arum would put Pac in these fights: Cotto II, Mosley, then Mayweather to finish off his career but I think it might be more like Cotto II, Mosley, and Margarito II these days.

thehype
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Nov 29 2010, 11:28 PM) *
Man Mosely is gone get the living baby shit beat out of him.


Maybe....then again...maybe not. The muddasucka CAN take a punch...and he CAN still throw a pretty mean body shit.

You never know in boxing.

dntknw.gif

Either way, it'll have it's moment, so I'll take it...and chances are, pretty much everyone else will probably WATCH it too.

laugh.gif
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 29 2010, 11:34 PM) *
Maybe....then again...maybe not. The muddasucka CAN take a punch...and he CAN still throw a pretty mean body shit.

You never know in boxing.

dntknw.gif

Either way, it'll have it's moment, so I'll take it...and chances are, pretty much everyone else will probably WATCH it too.

laugh.gif


we had this discussion the other day... lol... if its made ill be ordering it... lol....i hope the undercard is nice...
gravytrain
QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 30 2010, 12:34 AM) *
Maybe....then again...maybe not. The muddasucka CAN take a punch...and he CAN still throw a pretty mean body shit.

You never know in boxing.

dntknw.gif

Either way, it'll have it's moment, so I'll take it...and chances are, pretty much everyone else will probably WATCH it too.

laugh.gif


a lot of people write Mosley off but there's a better chance for him to beat Pac then any other opponents Pac will probably face before retiring. Unless he fights Mayweather. I think with the smaller Pac Mosley could try to make this an ugly fight, that and if Pac tries to test Mosley's power he might get his head knocked off.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Nov 30 2010, 01:45 AM) *
a lot of people write Mosley off but there's a better chance for him to beat Pac then any other opponents Pac will probably face before retiring. Unless he fights Mayweather. I think with the smaller Pac Mosley could try to make this an ugly fight, that and if Pac tries to test Mosley's power he might get his head knocked off.


This is how I feel. But then again I am a Mosley hugger so my perception is tainted when it comes to Shane, lol.

But seriously Mosley does have some pretty good pop and decent speed yet, so sure Pac would be expected to be too much for Mosley at this point, but man I would not count him out.

I honestly hope they make this fight, I think you will see fireworks either way.
BoxingStill#1
Arum is 1000% right.....Mosley's 'name' will make this fight,..... the Public cares less about records and so forth


After reading the interview with Mosley, I am thoroughly convinced its Golden Boy's fought we havent seen PBF and PAC....


All the politics fall in behind that...
TRU
I will be betting a good chunk of change on Pac by stoppage.

Hoping the line-maker buys into that "strong-chinned" Mosley bowelshit.

Hugging masked Hatton's chin just like it masked Mosley's and is currently masking Ward's.

Unfortunately for Shane... Pac's feet will allow him to avoid his hugs just like Pac was able to smash on Hatton as he went in for the carress. As a bettor I LOVE this fight.

Just hoping to get Pac by KO at +150 or better.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 30 2010, 01:50 AM) *
This is how I feel. But then again I am a Mosley hugger so my perception is tainted when it comes to Shane, lol.

But seriously Mosley does have some pretty good pop and decent speed yet, so sure Pac would be expected to be too much for Mosley at this point, but man I would not count him out.

I honestly hope they make this fight, I think you will see fireworks either way.


Mosley can still find the fountain of youth against someone that will let him. Now I'm not trying to call it as 100% chance of an upset because I honestly don't know how much Mosley has left, I do think that if this fight is made like Hype is calling it then team Pac is underestimating the same motherfucker that demolished Arum's golden Mexican.

I just think that if Mosley still has something left that Pacquiao is a guy that could let him show it. Pac is smaller, takes risks, and is a offense oriented fighter. If the ref lets Mosley clench then I see Mosley using it to neutralize Pac's foot speed while going to the body and limiting output. Pac has been caught in fights and Mosley might have enough to hurt him, and if Mosley has him hurt it's just going to be an invitation to tee off. Mosley is looking to fight someone, and I literally mean fight someone, because it'll let him stay loose and he wont be tensing up looking for big shots. And if Pac gives him that fight then I'm about to laugh my ass off.
STEVENSKI
Pac will light him up like a christmas tree. Bad fight to make but at the same time a "great" fight to make. If it gets made I hope Pac really busts Shane up. Another fight where Pac will look far better in beating the man than his rival.
Run and Gun Game Calls
The shane that fought floyd had no business in the ring with pac, and neither does this version. both the floyd and proposed pac fight with shane are nothing but money grabs.
D-MARV
I find it quite funny that Arum says that Marquez has no name value. I guess Clottey is the type of guy that draws fans? Also this means that Mayweather can pull over 1 million buys all by himself! I guess "Money May" is the PPV king.
TheFonz
QUOTE (TRU @ Nov 30 2010, 02:27 AM) *
I will be betting a good chunk of change on Pac by stoppage.

Hoping the line-maker buys into that "strong-chinned" Mosley bowelshit.

Hugging masked Hatton's chin just like it masked Mosley's and is currently masking Ward's.

Unfortunately for Shane... Pac's feet will allow him to avoid his hugs just like Pac was able to smash on Hatton as he went in for the carress. As a bettor I LOVE this fight.

Just hoping to get Pac by KO at +150 or better.



The Mosley hate is strong in this one.
Hops
Mosley will get outlanded 4 to 1. How is he supposed to hug Pacquiao. The master hugger Hatton couldn't even do that.
JD
Mosley is going to be utterly clueless in there.

This fight will not be competitive for more than a round. Pac stops him...
thehype
QUOTE (JD @ Nov 30 2010, 08:26 AM) *
Mosley is going to be utterly clueless in there.

This fight will not be competitive for more than a round. Pac stops him...


Who would be competitive when facing THE Pacquiao?

dntknw.gif

He'll be more competitive than Margarito and Clottey were...and actually, I think he'll look better at 147 than Marquez ever will...so at this point, I'll take that.
caneman
I would have rather seen JMM/Pac(or PBF, just dreaming) but ok, whatever, I like Mosley so let him get a good pay day! I think Pacman will stop him late in the 8th or 9th round! We might get to see how well Pac can take a punch as well cause Mosley does have power!
JD
If we remove the idea of Floyd because both sides are not getting anywhere on it...

I think Berto or Bradley would make for a better fight...hell, I would rather see Marquez at 144. Mosley will sell better, no question, but he is going to be embarrassed in there.
D-MARV
LMAO @ Pacquiao stopping Mosley!
JD
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Nov 30 2010, 09:55 AM) *
LMAO @ Pacquiao stopping Mosley!


LOL...OK
caneman
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 30 2010, 09:56 AM) *
Doesn't make Arum any less an organ grinder full of shit.

His comparison of JMM to Mosley is pure, unadulterated camel feces. Mosley has had one decent win in (too many) years. Even casual fans know that he is done at the elite level.

Sure, hype, this will probably be made, but let's call a turd a piece of shit with a four letter word- Arum. JMM would have done better PPV #s than Margarito or Clottey and probably Cotto. Pac v JMM would kick Mosley's ass. Arum knows it and you know it.

JMM v Pac would glue every Mexican and Filipino on the planet to their seats for this fight. That's over 200 million viewers to begin with. Every casual fan knows the history between these two. JMM just beat up an Australian of Greek descent. So now we have the North American, Asian and Australian continents fully engaged. But JMM is Latino which will throw a good portion of South America into the mix. Oh, that's right, JMM has done what Pac hasn't, fought PBF. How many PPVs did that pull? JMM is in the top 5 p4p, Mosley no longer is in the top 10.

The organ grinder isn't interested in anything that might injure his

monkey.

SSM is the perfect half assed answer to the Pac won't fight African Americans criticism. Mosley is an older and more tired (though not quite as damaged) version of Cotto.

Sure, I can understand why Arum would match Pac v Mosley rather than JMM, but it has less to do with which fight would make more money than which fight is less dangerous for his monkey.



Good post and I agree with most of it!
TRU
QUOTE (JD @ Nov 30 2010, 11:07 AM) *
LOL...OK


This is why I love this fight. Not so smart fight fans are about as dellusional as they come making it a smart bettors opportunity.

Gotta luv it!

Like I said JD... +150 is the magic number I'm looking for.
JD
I am not sure the oddsmakers will ever give you that opportunity.

Pac by stoppage over Margarito, which in fairness should have been the result if Laurence Cole were a decent ref, was something like -300. Pac by decision over Marg was +230...I tend to think Pac by stoppage over Mosley will be in the area of -150.
TRU
QUOTE (JD @ Nov 30 2010, 01:07 PM) *
I am not sure the oddsmakers will ever give you that opportunity.

Pac by stoppage over Margarito, which in fairness should have been the result if Laurence Cole were a decent ref was something like -300. Pac by decision over Marg was +230...I tend to think Pac by stoppage over Mosley will be in the area of -150.


Maybe... but I think alot of blind Pac KO bettors drove that price up. Also that Mosley KO of Margarito stuck out in people's heads I believe.

-150 sounds like a fair number either way to be honest. I just think the LMAO at Mosley getting stopped sentiment will keep the donkey bettors taking the over and Pac by decision.

What's the argument again... oh yeah, Shane is somehow slick and has never been stopped. Pac couldn't stop margarito or clottey... Pac aint stopping Mosley?

Love it!
Method
Shane's about as slick as sand paper.
JD
Shane's head is not really any harder to get to than Margarito's...and Pac would not be punching up at it.

If Mosley tries to back Pacquiao up with that pawing jab he is going to get touched up very quickly and if he lets Pacquiao come to him and tries to counter, he will get unloaded on.

This fight is really a mismatch at this point in their careers.
TRU
Completey agreed with both you fuckers...

Time to stack it up and lay it on Pac by brutal, extended prison sentence-like stoppage.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Dec 1 2010, 01:55 AM) *
LMAO @ Pacquiao stopping Mosley!


Just like everyone laughed at Pac stopping DLH. That was probably my favourite Pac fight because I liked seeing DLH looking confused & getting lit the fuck up with blistering combos. Shane will be the same & I hope Pac dishes out a vicious beatdown to him. Not because I dislike Shane but because he deserves it & should retire.
BoxingStill#1
too me its almost like Mos just wants to fight one last big fight......over and over....lol
D-MARV
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Nov 30 2010, 04:41 PM) *
Just like everyone laughed at Pac stopping DLH. That was probably my favourite Pac fight because I liked seeing DLH looking confused & getting lit the fuck up with blistering combos. Shane will be the same & I hope Pac dishes out a vicious beatdown to him. Not because I dislike Shane but because he deserves it & should retire.

Dude, I made over 500 dollars on the fight. I was actually one of the very few (if any) who said that Pac was stopping De La Hoya.
thehype
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 30 2010, 09:56 AM) *
Doesn't make Arum any less an organ grinder full of shit.


Never said he wasn't.

laugh.gif

QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 30 2010, 09:56 AM) *
His comparison of JMM to Mosley is pure, unadulterated camel feces. Mosley has had one decent win in (too many) years. Even casual fans know that he is done at the elite level.

Sure, hype, this will probably be made, but let's call a turd a piece of shit with a four letter word- Arum. JMM would have done better PPV #s than Margarito or Clottey and probably Cotto. Pac v JMM would kick Mosley's ass. Arum knows it and you know it.

JMM v Pac would glue every Mexican and Filipino on the planet to their seats for this fight. That's over 200 million viewers to begin with. Every casual fan knows the history between these two. JMM just beat up an Australian of Greek descent. So now we have the North American, Asian and Australian continents fully engaged. But JMM is Latino which will throw a good portion of South America into the mix. Oh, that's right, JMM has done what Pac hasn't, fought PBF. How many PPVs did that pull? JMM is in the top 5 p4p, Mosley no longer is in the top 10.


I gotta respectfully disagree. Marquez is not and will not be a bigger draw than Shane Mosley. The dude just fought in front of a crowd of 4,920 people on a card with names like Michael Katsidis, Andre Berto (another shitty draw), Celestino Caballero, Freddy Hernandez, Jason Litzau and Erislandy Lara. Those are some pretty familiar names to "diehard" fans, and yet, that's all they could pull in? Just 4,920? And who knows what the actual PAID attendance was. From my experience, that number is usually at least 500-1000 LOWER than the announced attendance. That's pretty sad when you consider Marquez vs. Katsidis was a legitimate matchup that most felt could have gone either way.

Compare that to Shane Mosley fighting Sergio Mora, a JOKE of a fight. That card had 13,591 in attendance and that was with Mosley coming off of an embarrassing performance against Mayweather. I mean, don't get me wrong, he was fighting Mora, another Mexican, plus Daniel Ponce de Leon, Antonio Escalante, Saul Alvarez and Victor Ortiz were on the card...ALL MEXICANS...so maybe the fact that so many Mexicans were on the card had something to do with those attendance numbers TRIPLING what the Marquez card did. But still, if that's the case, with all those Mexicans fighters on the card, I would have expected the PPV numbers to have done better than the 100K buys that it did. For some reason, however, it didn't. In my opinion, that's because the main event wasn't perceived to be a fight worth buying because the "casual" fan simply wasn't interested in the matchup.

So when I compare those PPV numbers to the last PPV numbers that Marquez did in his fight with Juan Diaz (another PPV that was on the heals of a Mayweather beatdown), which was a HIGHLY anticipated rematch of a Fight of the Year that most felt was going to be extremely competitive...well...that card only did 150K buys, which isn't that many more than what Mosley did fighting Mora. So when I see that, I have to ask myself just how big of a draw is Marquez?

In my opinion, he's simply not. And honestly, I really think most "casual" fans buy PPV fights based on whether or not there's a "perceived" chance of a competitive matchup. I think most "diehard" fans probably knew that Margarito was going to be way too slow, but because of his size, and the whispers of Manny having his worst camp, people started to actually believe he had a shot. So regardless of whether or not the "diehard" fan thinks Mosley is shot, the "casual" fan will still buy that fight because it's very easy to make people believe that Mosley, a guy they're more familiar with based on his fights with De La Hoya, etc., actually has the best shot at making a good scrap...especially considering that Mosley STOPPED the guy that Manny just beat up. If Mosley lost HALF of his fan base because of his last 2 performances, I still think that's more fans than Marquez will have.

QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 30 2010, 09:56 AM) *
The organ grinder isn't interested in anything that might injure his monkey.

SSM is the perfect half assed answer to the Pac won't fight African Americans criticism. Mosley is an older and more tired (though not quite as damaged) version of Cotto.

Sure, I can understand why Arum would match Pac v Mosley rather than JMM, but it has less to do with which fight would make more money than which fight is less dangerous for his monkey.


I agree 100%...and I'm not saying I endorse it, because I DEFINITELY would like to see Pacquiao fighting a lot of other guys, but since I already know what Arum is doing and why he's doing it, at this point, I'd just rather see Mosley in there simply because I do think he's got a better shot at 147 than Marquez does. I mean, Katsidis just put him on his ass for crying out loud...imagine if that was Manny landing that shot at 147. Geesh! I mean, I hear what people are saying about Mosley, but you know what? Mosley has a history of looking like crap, that's nothing new, so his performance against Mora wasn't shocking to me. It was no different than his performance against Mayorga...another fight he looked crappy in and was in jeopardy of losing. Of course, he followed that up with his performance against Margarito. Shane's also looked crappy against other guys throughout his career, but usually, when you put him in with someone who wants to bang, you get a pretty damn good fight, so at least I know I'm going to get a good fight out of Manny if Shane's in there with him. Whether or not he wins makes no difference to me...I just want to see someone make a fight out of it. If it's Marquez, however, that could be ugly. I think it's a lot to ask of him to move up to 147 to fight THE Pacquiao. LOL.
thehype
QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 29 2010, 09:14 PM) *
So because of that, expect Pacquiao vs. Mosley on May 7, 2011 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, Nevada....although I do believe there's a slim (very slim) possibility that the fight gets bumped up to April.


So far so good...I'm not too far off. Now he just needs to make it official and say Mosley's name:

QUOTE
Top Rank big boss Bob Arum already has a date and venue for Manny Pacquiao’s next fight: April 16, 2011 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.

http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/290442/pacquiao-fight-april-16


laugh.gif

laugh.gif
JLUVBABY
didnt want to make a new thread for this vid but found this on youtube... thought it was pretty funny...

Run and Gun Game Calls
LMFAO that vid is priceless.
gravytrain
QUOTE (thehype @ Dec 1 2010, 01:17 PM) *
So far so good...I'm not too far off. Now he just needs to make it official and say Mosley's name:



laugh.gif

laugh.gif


LOL

Man, I kind of feel bad for Naazim Richardson. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he strangled Mosley with the towel after a fight with Pac. At least he's getting paid I guess.
thehype
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Dec 1 2010, 02:58 PM) *
LOL

Man, I kind of feel bad for Naazim Richardson. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he strangled Mosley with the towel after a fight with Pac. At least he's getting paid I guess.


Nah. I think Brother Naaz likes his chances. At least Pacquiao won't be running...and he's there to be hit. I mean, if Margarito's slow ass was able to land some shots, SURELY Shane Mosley should be able to land SOMETHING. Not saying he's going to win the fight, but if you want to win the lottery, you have to at least play and with Shane, there's always that chance to land something. In my opinion, it's a lot better fight for Shane to take than a fight with a 160-pound dude who's more interested in riding bikes. LOL. I think, despite his performances against Floyd (no shame in that...even Marquez got blanked) and Mora, Shane Mosley is a more dangerous fight for Pacquiao than Margarito or Clottey ever were.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Dec 2 2010, 04:40 AM) *
Dude, I made over 500 dollars on the fight. I was actually one of the very few (if any) who said that Pac was stopping De La Hoya.


Cool. I thought DLH would be too big for Pac & was happy to be proved wrong.
gravytrain
QUOTE (thehype @ Dec 1 2010, 04:47 PM) *
Nah. I think Brother Naaz likes his chances. At least Pacquiao won't be running...and he's there to be hit. I mean, if Margarito's slow ass was able to land some shots, SURELY Shane Mosley should be able to land SOMETHING. Not saying he's going to win the fight, but if you want to win the lottery, you have to at least play and with Shane, there's always that chance to land something. In my opinion, it's a lot better fight for Shane to take than a fight with a 160-pound dude who's more interested in riding bikes. LOL. I think, despite his performances against Floyd (no shame in that...even Marquez got blanked) and Mora, Shane Mosley is a more dangerous fight for Pacquiao than Margarito or Clottey ever were.


That's what I'm thinking too. Mayweather was really all wrong for Mosley, I could see Mosley getting troubled by the feints from the beginning. Once Mayweather made adjustments and said to himself "this cat rocked me? fuck that" it was over. Mora wasn't really a fight he would look good in either. His last two fights have probably made him look worse than he actually is.

I just like Mosley in this fight because of Pac. Pac is an aggressive fighter that wants to take risks, he can create angles but I don't really see him running in this fight. If Mosley can clench in this fight and doesn't get broken up as soon as he gets his hands on Pac I see him giving him some serious trouble. That and Pac doesn't offer much movement and just stands straight up, he'll be using his footwork but I don't think it'll be enough to really discourage Mosley.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (thehype @ Dec 1 2010, 11:13 AM) *
I gotta respectfully disagree. Marquez is not and will not be a bigger draw than Shane Mosley. The dude just fought in front of a crowd of 4,920 people on a card with names like Michael Katsidis, Andre Berto (another shitty draw), Celestino Caballero, Freddy Hernandez, Jason Litzau and Erislandy Lara. Those are some pretty familiar names to "diehard" fans, and yet, that's all they could pull in? Just 4,920? And who knows what the actual PAID attendance was. From my experience, that number is usually at least 500-1000 LOWER than the announced attendance. That's pretty sad when you consider Marquez vs. Katsidis was a legitimate matchup that most felt could have gone either way.

Compare that to Shane Mosley fighting Sergio Mora, a JOKE of a fight. That card had 13,591 in attendance and that was with Mosley coming off of an embarrassing performance against Mayweather. I mean, don't get me wrong, he was fighting Mora, another Mexican, plus Daniel Ponce de Leon, Antonio Escalante, Saul Alvarez and Victor Ortiz were on the card...ALL MEXICANS...so maybe the fact that so many Mexicans were on the card had something to do with those attendance numbers TRIPLING what the Marquez card did. But still, if that's the case, with all those Mexicans fighters on the card, I would have expected the PPV numbers to have done better than the 100K buys that it did. For some reason, however, it didn't. In my opinion, that's because the main event wasn't perceived to be a fight worth buying because the "casual" fan simply wasn't interested in the matchup.

So when I compare those PPV numbers to the last PPV numbers that Marquez did in his fight with Juan Diaz (another PPV that was on the heals of a Mayweather beatdown), which was a HIGHLY anticipated rematch of a Fight of the Year that most felt was going to be extremely competitive...well...that card only did 150K buys, which isn't that many more than what Mosley did fighting Mora. So when I see that, I have to ask myself just how big of a draw is Marquez?

In my opinion, he's simply not. And honestly, I really think most "casual" fans buy PPV fights based on whether or not there's a "perceived" chance of a competitive matchup. I think most "diehard" fans probably knew that Margarito was going to be way too slow, but because of his size, and the whispers of Manny having his worst camp, people started to actually believe he had a shot. So regardless of whether or not the "diehard" fan thinks Mosley is shot, the "casual" fan will still buy that fight because it's very easy to make people believe that Mosley, a guy they're more familiar with based on his fights with De La Hoya, etc., actually has the best shot at making a good scrap...especially considering that Mosley STOPPED the guy that Manny just beat up. If Mosley lost HALF of his fan base because of his last 2 performances, I still think that's more fans than Marquez will have.

Good points. I think I understand your perspective. I just disagree on your opinion that Mosley would draw more PPVs v Pac than JMM would.

First of all, if JMM v Katsidis and Mora v Mosley had switched nights, I believe that JMM v Katsidis headlining the Mexican 200 Year Independence Day celebration in LA would have probably sold out and would have pulled 10s of thousands (if not 100,000 more PPVs). Mora v Mosley in Vegas would have probably done what JMM v Katsidis did.

Anyone v Pac at this point will do around 1 million PPVs, IMO. I don't think that Mosley will do any more than Margarito or Clottey did. JMM on the other hand, if promoted properly, would do 1.5 or more, because of characteristics of the struggle: Philippines v Mexico, personal history, legacies, Superstar v Blue Collar Worker, Revenge, Redemption, Blood.

QUOTE
I agree 100%...and I'm not saying I endorse it, because I DEFINITELY would like to see Pacquiao fighting a lot of other guys, but since I already know what Arum is doing and why he's doing it, at this point, I'd just rather see Mosley in there simply because I do think he's got a better shot at 147 than Marquez does. I mean, Katsidis just put him on his ass for crying out loud...imagine if that was Manny landing that shot at 147. Geesh! I mean, I hear what people are saying about Mosley, but you know what? Mosley has a history of looking like crap, that's nothing new, so his performance against Mora wasn't shocking to me. It was no different than his performance against Mayorga...another fight he looked crappy in and was in jeopardy of losing. Of course, he followed that up with his performance against Margarito. Shane's also looked crappy against other guys throughout his career, but usually, when you put him in with someone who wants to bang, you get a pretty damn good fight, so at least I know I'm going to get a good fight out of Manny if Shane's in there with him. Whether or not he wins makes no difference to me...I just want to see someone make a fight out of it. If it's Marquez, however, that could be ugly. I think it's a lot to ask of him to move up to 147 to fight THE Pacquiao. LOL.

You make good points about SSM v Pac. It would not be a walk over. I just do not see that he has earned a shot at Pac. I think that JMM deserves the big payday more than SSM. I also do not see as much of a problem with the JMM v Pac weight difference given what each fighter came into the ring at in their last fights (JMM 144, Pac 148).

I completely agree with you that "if it's Marquez . . . that could be ugly." Replace "could" with will. JMM wouldn't want it any other way. We aren't asking JMM "to move up to 147 to fight THE Pacquiao." JMM is asking for it.

And he deserves it. Give The Warrior his due.
thehype
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Dec 1 2010, 10:49 PM) *
Good points. I think I understand your perspective. I just disagree on your opinion that Mosley would draw more PPVs v Pac than JMM would.

First of all, if JMM v Katsidis and Mora v Mosley had switched nights, I believe that JMM v Katsidis headlining the Mexican 200 Year Independence Day celebration in LA would have probably sold out and would have pulled 10s of thousands (if not 100,000 more PPVs). Mora v Mosley in Vegas would have probably done what JMM v Katsidis did.

Anyone v Pac at this point will do around 1 million PPVs, IMO. I don't think that Mosley will do any more than Margarito or Clottey did. JMM on the other hand, if promoted properly, would do 1.5 or more, because of characteristics of the struggle: Philippines v Mexico, personal history, legacies, Superstar v Blue Collar Worker, Revenge, Redemption, Blood.


LOL. You REALLY think Marquez is a WAAAAAAAAY bigger draw than he is. LOL. Let's just say we'll agree to disagree...but I'm telling you right now, Bob Arum is in the business of making money, and if there was a chance that a third fight with Marquez would make THAT MUCH MORE money for him, BELIEVE ME, he'd make that fight in a heartbeat. He ain't sweatin' Manny losing. Even if he did, there'd be a rematch, thus making Arum even more money. Not to mention, there's a reason why Mayweather did more PPV buys with Mosley than with Marquez. There's also a reason why Marquez-Diaz II only did 150K buys. Guys like Bob Arum and Mark Taffet have much more knowledge about all those numbers than I do, so I'll defer to their knowledge, but if Arum is saying Mosley will make him more money, in this rare instance, I believe him. LOL.

QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Dec 1 2010, 10:49 PM) *
You make good points about SSM v Pac. It would not be a walk over. I just do not see that he has earned a shot at Pac. I think that JMM deserves the big payday more than SSM. I also do not see as much of a problem with the JMM v Pac weight difference given what each fighter came into the ring at in their last fights (JMM 144, Pac 148).

I completely agree with you that "if it's Marquez . . . that could be ugly." Replace "could" with will. JMM wouldn't want it any other way. We aren't asking JMM "to move up to 147 to fight THE Pacquiao." JMM is asking for it.

And he deserves it. Give The Warrior his due.


He got a big payday...against Mayweather...and then he proceeded to get blanked, losing every second of every round in a horrible performance because he was "fighting at a weight too high"...so now he's being asked to do the same thing, fight at 147, but this time against a much more offensive punching machine in Manny Pacquiao, and I'm supposed to expect a competitive bout because the first 2 were competitive at 130 pounds? No thanks bro. I don't even think Marquez beats Shane Mosley at 147, let alone Pacquiao, so I'd MUCH RATHER see a guy who might actually have a shot at clippin that darn Filipino beast. Marquez ain't gonna do shit to Pac. He BARELY outboxed him when Pac was just a one-handed fighter. Now he's better, bigger, faster and stronger...he's the freakin Million Dollar Man....and Marquez's dumb ass is going to want to bang when he shouldn't...I mean, freakin Katsidis put his ass on the canvas. If people thought Mayweather vs. Marquez was a mismatch, Pacquiao vs. Marquez is going to be a blowout at 147. If it was at 140...then different story...he might actually have a shot...but at 147...man....forget that.

Give Mosley his due. He deserves another fat payday just as much as anyone. 2 wins over De La Hoya and yet he NEVER tasted the kind of double digit paydays that Pac and Floyd now enjoy.

laugh.gif
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (thehype @ Dec 1 2010, 09:37 PM) *
LOL. You REALLY think Marquez is a WAAAAAAAAY bigger draw than he is. LOL. Let's just say we'll agree to disagree...but I'm telling you right now, Bob Arum is in the business of making money, and if there was a chance that a third fight with Marquez would make THAT MUCH MORE money for him, BELIEVE ME, he'd make that fight in a heartbeat. He ain't sweatin' Manny losing. Even if he did, there'd be a rematch, thus making Arum even more money. Not to mention, there's a reason why Mayweather did more PPV buys with Mosley than with Marquez. There's also a reason why Marquez-Diaz II only did 150K buys. Guys like Bob Arum and Mark Taffet have much more knowledge about all those numbers than I do, so I'll defer to their knowledge, but if Arum is saying Mosley will make him more money, in this rare instance, I believe him. LOL.

You can defer to Arum, but he is just as full of shit as ever. Damaged Cotto, African punching bag, Damaged and plasterless Margarito and now Mosley.

Give me a fucking break.

I could see Berto or Bradley or Alexander or Khan or Maidana or Ortiz or Peterson or even Abregu rather than JMM. But SSM? That is a bad Santa joke.



QUOTE
He got a big payday...against Mayweather...and then he proceeded to get blanked, losing every second of every round in a horrible performance because he was "fighting at a weight too high"...so now he's being asked to do the same thing, fight at 147, but this time against a much more offensive punching machine in Manny Pacquiao, and I'm supposed to expect a competitive bout because the first 2 were competitive at 130 pounds? No thanks bro. I don't even think Marquez beats Shane Mosley at 147, let alone Pacquiao, so I'd MUCH RATHER see a guy who might actually have a shot at clippin that darn Filipino beast. Marquez ain't gonna do shit to Pac. He BARELY outboxed him when Pac was just a one-handed fighter. Now he's better, bigger, faster and stronger...he's the freakin Million Dollar Man....and Marquez's dumb ass is going to want to bang when he shouldn't...I mean, freakin Katsidis put his ass on the canvas. If people thought Mayweather vs. Marquez was a mismatch, Pacquiao vs. Marquez is going to be a blowout at 147. If it was at 140...then different story...he might actually have a shot...but at 147...man....forget that.

Give Mosley his due. He deserves another fat payday just as much as anyone. 2 wins over De La Hoya and yet he NEVER tasted the kind of double digit paydays that Pac and Floyd now enjoy.

laugh.gif

Other than one and a half punches, JMM was more competitive with PBF than SSM.

SSM can go fight Berto or Abregu. That is a stretch too far to go back to the ODLH fights as rationale for this 2011 payday.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (thehype @ Dec 2 2010, 03:37 PM) *
Give Mosley his due. He deserves another fat payday just as much as anyone. 2 wins over De La Hoya and yet he NEVER tasted the kind of double digit paydays that Pac and Floyd now enjoy.

laugh.gif


Yeah I blame for that.
thehype
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Dec 2 2010, 12:00 AM) *
You can defer to Arum, but he is just as full of shit as ever. Damaged Cotto, African punching bag, Damaged and plasterless Margarito and now Mosley.

Give me a fucking break.

I could see Berto or Bradley or Alexander or Khan or Maidana or Ortiz or Peterson or even Abregu rather than JMM. But SSM? That is a bad Santa joke.


I'm not debating that there are better, more competitive fights out there...I'm just agreeing that a bout with SSM will generate more revenue than a bout with JMM. If it's about pleasing the fans, then yeah, I totally agree that it's a bad Santa joke...but to Arum, this is business...fuck the fans...therefore, you're gonna get SSM next.

laugh.gif

QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Dec 2 2010, 12:00 AM) *
Other than one and a half punches, JMM was more competitive with PBF than SSM.


Say what? Are you serious? Marquez was never even close to being competitive. At least Shane DID land a shot that wobbled Floyd momentarily in the same round that Marquez was picking his ass up off the canvas from when he fought Floyd. The dude landed 69 punches...that was it. At least Shane landed 30 more and a couple of those were haymakers. LOL.
thehype
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Dec 2 2010, 12:41 AM) *
Yeah I blame for that.


Actually, if you knew some of the behind-the-scenes offers Shane was getting from Golden Boy Promotions, she's the only reason why he was able to continue making the kind of money he made. Jin actually did a pretty good job of sticking up for Shane when they were trying to shove the Golden stick up his ass. If you're referring to the 3rd bout and Shane's refusal to fight without parity of purse, that was actually a decision made by Shane himself.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (thehype @ Dec 3 2010, 05:58 AM) *
Actually, if you knew some of the behind-the-scenes offers Shane was getting from Golden Boy Promotions, she's the only reason why he was able to continue making the kind of money he made. Jin actually did a pretty good job of sticking up for Shane when they were trying to shove the Golden stick up his ass. If you're referring to the 3rd bout and Shane's refusal to fight without parity of purse, that was actually a decision made by Shane himself.



I don't know any of the behind the scenes stuff. I rely on a certain Ben Thompson to give me the inside scoop on that. I think Shane could have been a much bigger draw but he was bashed by Forrest & that affected his market value IMO.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (thehype @ Dec 2 2010, 11:54 AM) *
I'm not debating that there are better, more competitive fights out there...I'm just agreeing that a bout with SSM will generate more revenue than a bout with JMM. If it's about pleasing the fans, then yeah, I totally agree that it's a bad Santa joke...but to Arum, this is business...fuck the fans...therefore, you're gonna get SSM next.

You are waaay more in the know than I am, but I still disagree. They just keep fighting foregone conclusions.

You think that I am overestimating JMM's marketability and I think the opposite. Fair enough.

QUOTE
Say what? Are you serious? Marquez was never even close to being competitive. At least Shane DID land a shot that wobbled Floyd momentarily in the same round that Marquez was picking his ass up off the canvas from when he fought Floyd. The dude landed 69 punches...that was it. At least Shane landed 30 more and a couple of those were haymakers. LOL.

I knew that would get you going. To me it looked like SSM just shut it down in order to avoid being KTFO. JMM doesn't know how to shut it down (though PBF did it for him).
gravytrain
I don't know about that, I think Mosley just got frustrated and once Mayweather adjusted Mosley was out of it. To me he was looking frustrated from the beginning, even in round 1 Mosley looked kind of tight once he saw those feints. Mayweather made Mosley fight his fight and Mosley isn't about to fight some measured defensive fight lol.

not trying to make Mayweather seem like a supreme boxer, I just doubt Mosley was scared of his power.
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