I consider Berto to be a lot better than the average African American boxer. Therefor why should Pac fight Mosley? He looks too old in there now, and Marquez? He's not even 100% when he's over 140.

So lets all think like a boxing fan and demand Pac to fight Berto, He's undefeated, fast, young, a top welterweight in his prime, and his last fight ended in a first round KO!




And let's stop thinking like promoters because no one here benefits anything from what Pac makes in fights, because all we can get is a great fight and thats what Pac vs Berto can deliver.

All risk, no reward. If Pacquiao wins, he beat a guy that didn't deserve to be there anyway. Based on Berto's current resume, no doubt this statement is true.

However, in the off shot that Berto lands a good night shot like he did last weekend, Pacquiao's momentum and negotiating power for a fight like Mayweather gets derailed.

I think that a A- fighter in his prime who's name is not big enough outweighs a fighter who's too old or a fighter who's like 80% when he's in 142.

But what's it gonna take for Berto to be a worthy opponent for Pacquiao?

Berto isn't ready for Pac but if he really wants it i wouldn't mind seeing Manny lay him out cold cause thats exactly what will happen.

I just hope Larry Merchant will comentate so i can hear him go nuts when Manny flattens Berto being that he has such a soft spot for Berto. hahahaha

Look like you're living in a fantasy boy?Boxing is done by a promoter so everybody should consider that...Because if not we all end up disappointed just thinking the good fights.There are reason why quality fights never happen, and there are reasons why a-tailor-made fight happens...it's all about money.Don't talk either as a boxing fan coz that's what i'm doing now..

id be happy with berto or mosley.... not sure which would put up a better challenge but either would be a descent choice... as far as pac fighting an AFRICAN AMERICAN... number 1 thats some bullshit its even a topic... lol... it was brought on by ignorance rather true or not... there is only 1 african american with the skill set possible to make pac a betting underdog and we know who he is... anybody else is fodder rather they look respectable in losing or not...

The reality is, once you get to a be dominant force in boxing across several weight divisions, there is no real fight paths you can take without copping some criticism unless you happen to be an a stacked division.

The only fight both Pac and Mayweather can take without getting shat on by opposing fanboys is against each other.

Berto is a great opponent for him. Young and undefeated, and capable of putting on a good show. But he has no name, and if pac wins in convincing fashion the revisionists will take berto's resume apart with a buzzsaw. Mosely has the name, but is shop worn. Martinez is on a high right now, but he really is too big for pac. I am all for fighters taking risks, but it needs to be within reason. Even if he did beat martinez, i gaurantee you the buzzsaws will come out citing the williams win as all Martinez had as a claim to fame.

Its the same problem for mayweather. Who can he fight apart from pac and not take huge criticism? Martinez is the only answer there, as floyd has a bigger frame than pac and wont be at the same disadvantage. But apart from Martinez?

Clottey, Margarito (apart from the farce of the title), cotto, hatton, de la hoya. Thats not a bad list. The only thing pac should have done differently in that line up was ditch the catch weight nonsense. Certainly, each of those fights is better than mayweather fighting marquez at welter.

I never understood why fans argue on the basis of risk vs reward. As far as i am concerned, the money shouldnt matter to your average fans. If your a boxing fan, you want to see the best and most competitive fights made. If your a fan of a boxer first and foremost, thats when the money comes into it. The money is an excuse to shield your guy from risky fights

All you can do, bif your a pac or mayweather fan is pray that they sort the testing shit out and get it on. Think about it. Once that fight is done and dusted, whoever wins will have reached the pinnacle of their career and everything that comes after that will be a step down (even a rematch) unless some new force explodes on the scene out of nowhere

On Pacquiao-Berto:

Pacquiao I think would stop Berto. However, Berto does have a puncher's chance. The problem is a loss for either is devastating, especially to Manny, who is now being compared among the greatest boxers in history with his wins in different weight classes, his power, and his excitability.

Suppose Berto lands that big punch, which could happen against Pacquiao. A loss to Berto would tarnish the legend that Pacquaio is becoming. For marketability, it would suck and hurt the public interest in wanting the Mayweather-Pacquiao superfight to happen. Floyd could take two scenarios here- Floyd: "Well, what's the point of me fighting Pacquiao now, who just lost to Andre (Floyd thinking) "Fucking" Berto. He's thinking "Fucking Berto" NOT because Berto is a bad fighter, but because Andre's not a big money maker. Of course, I could also see Floyd coming out of retirement to beat Berto and than rant, "Hey, I beat the guy clearly that just KO'd Pacquiao." That's Floyd scenario #2.

Now, let's say Pacquio beats Berto. HBO no longer has an undefeated "Big O" guy to pom pom, and the Golden Boy/Al Haymen network want to milk Berto for as long as they can.

The way I see it is Berto fighting Mosley, if Mosley fights Manny and loses. It's a fight Berto could win if Mosley is shot or at least shopworn enough. Floyd will probably wait until Manny is really vulnerable in age or looks bad in a fight before agreeing to fight him. Floyd would rather retire undefeated than fight Manny.

HBO would probably like Berto to fight a winnable fight with a moderate risk, but not so much of a risk that Berto gets blitzed. And the best fight for Berto and HBO to achieve that goal seems to be a shopworn Mosley. What they are counting on for Berto, is that Mosley won't look good against Pacquiao.

Manny could REALLY hurt Andre and there's a bigger chance of that, than Berto landing his big right hand shot.

Jack

Berto has not proven to be an A- fighter yet. To be A- he needs to at least beat a B+

Beat some stiff competition & not scrubs?

Other than not wanting to see Berto get the payday I wouldn't really care. I just really have my doubts as to whether or not Berto will actually get a Pac fight.

Why wouldn't he be? As Berto said, "I'm done with the apppetizers". lol.

When taking who Pac will most likely be facing in the future into consideration I think it's hard to say Berto isn't worthy. Cotto is a guaranteed future opponent and he got his ass kicked, is he worthy? Margarito will probably get a rematch too despite being defeated pretty soundly, is he worthy?

Good post Jack.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind the bolded part. Why should Berto wait for Mosley to lose to Pac? What has SSM done to deserve a shot at Pac more than Berto? Fighting Mosley after he has just lost to Pac, drawn with Mora and lost to PBF would do zero for Berto's career.

The Berto v Pac option makes the most sense, IMO, although I am partial to JMM v Pac. Nobody could make a good argument that Pac v Berto is not a legit matchup. They are both 147 champs. Berto is undefeated for omnipotent being's sake.

If Berto is going to fight SSM, it should be now.


I would say that a victory over Pac would get him into the A division.


Berto is undefeated and owns a 147 belt. Are you trying to tell me that Margarito was better qualified? Clottey? Cotto? Hatton?

Berto is qualified.

It's not that Mosley deserves it more, it's that they think Mosley is on his last legs and a complete pushover. Then when Pac beats Mosley, which he most likely will, team Pac can say "Pac beat Mosley worse than Mayweather did!".

the whole reason why this fight shouldn't take place right now... good post

i would actually like to see Berto Cotto.........

both have a lot to lose and shit load to gain

I don't think anyone is "thinking like promoters." I think pretty much EVERYONE would agree that there are MUCH better fights and challenges out there for Pacquiao other than Mosley or Marquez at 147.

The PROBLEM is that the people who are actually making the fights (Arum, Koncz and Pacquiao) THINK LIKE PROMOTERS, therefore, if you want to know what move they're going to make, just think like them. Not saying you have to agree with it...and if you don't agree with it, then by all means, figure out a way to boycott or voice or opinion in hopes of making them change their minds. That being said, it's going to take a whole lot more than some thread on a message board to get Bob Arum to change his mind.



As for Berto, I think the better question should be why SHOULD he get the fight. I'm much more interested in seeing Berto give Collazo a rematch.

I really doubt they'd risk Cotto. If anything they give Cotto an easy fight to show a knockout to build the rematch between Cotto and Pac. Easier to try to sell him rebounding his career than a battle with Berto, especially if Cotto loses.

I agree.

But I also agree with hype about the fact that Mosley has been written off before, and those who did the writing suffered the consequences.

I agree about Mosley possibly getting an upset and I'd actually put money on the possibility of it, I just think there are a lot of variables so I'm not really comfortable enough saying I think it's 100% and I truly believe it'll happen. If I call the upset then I got to live up to it lol.

mosley was on his last legs when he stepped into the ring with Mayweather. he wasnt beat up and is still about the same fighter Mayweather fought. Problem is I was crying foul when Mayweather fought him, and I dont support a pac fight with him either.

but your wrong gravy, it isnt about being able to say he beat him worse than Mayweather, its all about the money. Same as it was in the Mayweather v/s Mosley fight. It will generate revenue.

He would have made more money than the Clottey fight wouldn't he? Has to be some other motivation now. What has happened since then? After you think about that a second, think about how beating up Mosley could benefit Pac.

The fans deserve a good great match up....I agree...it should be Pacquiao vs Berto...

[b]I am actually hoping a Pacquiao vs Martinez Fight...but certainly. a Pacman-Berto is equally exciting....maybe much more exciting....let us all therefore support and make proposal that we deserve a good-better match-up....Pac vs Berto it is!!![/b][size="4"][/size]

to me, if Cotto cant compete with or beat a fighter like Berto than he shouldnt be fighting anyway....imo

IMO, berto needs to fight cotto or mosley before getting in the ring with pac. I think the speed would just be to much. Berto has never really seen a good combination of speed and power, and when he met someone with moderate speed and power, he (IMO) lost. A fight with pac would probably damage Andre. We all know boxers can be one beating away from never being the same. If you dont believe that, ask Jeff Lacy.

I think he could fight with him, the question is does his promoter want him to fight with him. It's not going to be as good as when Cotto was in his prime but there's a chance he beats him. But seeing as Arum has been pushing a Pac rematch pretty hard, probably since Cotto can pull some good numbers, a dominating fight over some sap at 154 is going to look much better. If anything I see a Cotto/Margarito rematch.

I don't think Berto is a realistic opponent anyway. Ever since Pac became a PPV attraction Arum has been throwing around names, he hasn't been matched against any of them either. At this point I'm thinking he just wants to put him through the lineup one last time.

I never said Berto should not be getting a fight with Pacquiao...I simply asked the question, why should he? If your answer is because he has a title and titles should be unified, then okay...cool...that's your answer. I'm just pointing out the fact that so many people perceive Andre Berto as being a more dangerous threat simply because he's younger, and yet, he's never even faced the caliber of opponent to prepare him for a moment like that. In my opinion, Andre Berto has yet to even step up his level of competition, so I'm not at all convinced that he's truly ready for the "main courses of the division." Instead of jumping from appetizers to main courses, he would be well advised to eat his salad first. Since his struggles with Collazo, there's been a steep decline in his level of competition and I just don't see him having what it takes to be competitive against Pacquiao. In fact, quite frankly, given that Berto is one of the smaller welterweights, I think Pacquiao might blitz him and stop his chinless ass early.

As for Toney, the whole reason why I preferred for him to fight Wlad as opposed to someone like Chisora...or him fighting Vitali as opposed to someone like Sosnowski...was because, in my opinion, James Toney offers a better challenge than guys who have NEVER fought on that type of stage before and I know Toney is not going to fold or succumb to the pressure of the moment. It's kind of the same reason why I think Mosley should get the fight against Pacquiao instead of Berto, who has NEVER fought an elite fighter on that type of stage before. I just think, as far as competitiveness is concerned, Toney would offer a better challenge...and the same can be said about Berto. I mean, who knows...I might be wrong about Berto...it's just hard to really know because he hasn't fought anyone of note yet...and when he has tried to step up his competition even just a little, he hasn't really looked all that spectacular, so there's nothing about Andre Berto that makes me believe he'll give a better effort than Mosley.

I guess my point is that, in boxing, experience gets ignored far too much in favor of youth, speed, power and athleticism. I mean, don't get me wrong, the last 4 are great, but if you don't have the experience to know how to use them, you're going to be at a SERIOUS disadvantage. In my opinion, that's the problem with boxing today. Far too many fighters are rushed into fights in hopes of getting the big payday. They don't spend the time molding their careers by getting the valuable experience you need in order to deal with adversity and know how to make adjustments when things aren't going your way. Jeff Lacy, Jermain Taylor, and Chris Arreola are PERFECT examples of what I mean. Should Andre Berto walk right into a fight with Pacquiao right now, in my opinion, based on what I've seen from him thus far, you'll be adding his name to that same list.

Did that answer your question?

Nooooo...YOU'RE wrong RGGC...it IS about being able to say he beat him worse...AND it's about the money.

That's the same reason why Floyd fought Marquez...so he could say, "Yeah...look...I whipped the guy that gave Manny problems. Y'all fools need to pay me more money cuz I'm gonna dominate the little midget!"

You could ask Jermain Taylor too...he's the perfect example of what happens to a fighter when they're rushed into fights they're not ready for.

When you think about it, I think they'd use it to get more leverage with Mayweather too. If Mayweather doesn't accept a cutoff they offer or scrap the testing clause then the first thing they're going to say is "we already tried to make a fight with you and you were too scared, now we beat Mosley worse and you still don't want to fight.". All the pressure would be on Mayweather, not that it isn't already.

I bolded that part of the post you mentioned because I think this is what HBO wants for Berto, and the most likely scenario that Berto would want. BUT you are also correct. Berto should NOT wait to take a chance on Shane being shopworn or losing. Berto should fight Mosley now. This match was planned before the Haiti Earthquake tragedy, and it could still be made.

Jack

Well, the HW division isn't exactly loaded with talent. There's Wlad and Vitali then the rest of them. At least Toney would talk some trash, actually show up to the fight, and make an attempt to win. It's not like the brothers don't have a hard time finding opponents as it's, they're just looking to make fights. Why not Toney? I think it'd be a more entertaining fight than most because even if he failed he'd still try to win.

I personally dont think he's ready to fight the A-Class fighters just yet ( then again how many A-class fighters are there really) but based on what i've seen from Berto he really loss to Luis Collazo IMO but i would definitely watch if they did fight. He's definitely as fast as Pac and his punch output is fairly decent so i think it would be a pretty good fight and i wouldnt be surprised on who wins either way.

And see that's just the thing,... as soon as Berto ran into a decent notable name,... he looked average....he looked worn, and he looked like he has a problem with a " boxer puncher"...Collazo brought a fight to Berto, and although Collazo wasn't laying down for anyone that night, Berto should have adjusted and boxed his ass to pieces......

I hope he learned from that fight and can stay in his envelope if he gets the fight with Pac because if he tries to trade with Pacman the outcome will be just like Cotto

Just because he's a world champion at 147 doesn't make him ready IMO. I just don't think Berto has nearly enough experience to deal with someone like Pacquiao at this stage. What was his best win, Collazo? That's nothing on the level of Pacquiao. I'm not saying he doesn't DESERVE a shot against Pacquiao, I just think he needs a lot more experience before he has a decent shot at winning if he were to face Pacquiao.

I think Berto is similar to Pirog, though I am more impressed with Pirog's hybrid style of fighting.

You don't become a star by fighting foregone conclusions. You do that after you become a star.

Berto v Pac. Pirog v SMartinez. The same evening. Call it Let's Get Ready To Unify. If Pac beats an undefeated belt holder it will mean a hell of a lot more than beating SSM. It would give me a reason to cheer for him again, and PBF's hand would be forced. If SMartinez defeats the talented and undefeated Russian belt holder a semi mega fight would become apparent with Bute or Ward or Foch.

That is a good and accurate post. Once you hold a belt there is no such thing as not being ready.

Even if you are not ready.

I was one of the first to highlight that sergio should fight pirog instead of people clamoring for a fight with guys two weight divisions below... people saying Pirog is not ready yet I see him being ready

True, neo, you were.

In fact you got me thinking a bit deeper about it. I just want to see Pirog and SMartinez fight anybody. If they fight each other, all the better.