Just read this and anybody that sides with manny pac and his cronies after reading this shit are full of it if his 2011 unfolds like this... Mayweather aside, he's not the issue as of now, its pretty obvious boxings not on his mind or radar of things to do right now, its time to move on from that till we hear from his camp... there is no defending this choice of opponent for september, id give him a pass for mosley but you cant say well "IF mayweather would step up".... There are too many other younger fresher fighters available for him to fight rather than these retread ass used up beat the hell up fighters.. thats some bullshit they are talking over there in the phillipines... here's the article... If this is indeed their plan his team is making him out to be an even bigger ho an pussy than what people try to make mayweather out to be... If you dont wanna fight dont fight... dont entice people to waste their hard earned money on these retread bums... this shit needs to be boycotted if it turns out to be true... And what happened to the berto fight?... why not fight berto in september or the bradley alexander winner? or marquez? or alvarez for that matter.... and he is holding a strap at 154 no matter how small people wanna say he is for the weight... there is a long ass line of young contenders at the weight deserving a shot... if he's not intending on defending that belt he needs to vacate his 154 title... if he's gonna hold onto it how about a unification with bundrage?... he should be an easy win since pac is so great and he unifies his belt... this has pissed me off that lil twat and his cronies... lol...

Manny pac vs cotto/marg winner in sept....

What. The. Fuck.

Speak on it JLUV. The evidence speaks for itself.

I think if Manny takes on this schedule we can officially say he is in the Elvis Vegas period of his career.

Oh well I can't hate on the guy. He fought the 3 modern Mexican legends a staggering 7 times and 6 of them were all action classics. His war with Cotto was great and his destruction of Fishnets and Fatton will forever be on rotation in my favourites DVD play list.

Thanks for all the good times Manny and may you cash up with your health intact and enjoy your new career in the Phillipines trying to help your fellow countrymen.

What else can you say other than the dude is taking a well earned lap of honour?

Pacfan indeed!!!!

Oh c'mon man. Now you're just doing it for attention.

Pacquiao KO6 Cotto OR Margarito if he faces either after they beat the shit out of each other in a rematch and lose another significant piece of their careers with the beatings.

i thought cotto looked shot vs foreman... if foreman had a punch cotto would have had a lot of trouble in that fight.... marg and pac in my opinion stole his ability to take a punch and taught him how to give in... cotto is missing a lot of what made him an a class fighter prior to the margarito fight... in my opinion... and pac took more fight out of the guy... i think hes the right fight away from being hurt in the ring... just my opinion... the way hes taking shots these days dont look good at all... i personally think he needs to retire.. margarito should beat him and if he does we know its gonna be in devastating fashion... may as well start finding a link for pac vs margo 2 stream cuzz i wont order that shit this time around...

Nope not at all. I make no secret that I've really enjoyed Pac's career up until this point. I've defended him on these boards and will continue to do so. I do this without expecting to be called a 'hugger' or whatever else tends to get thrown around here.

However I'm not unreasonable in my expectations and if Pac follows the schedule that Arum is laying down in the press then I think it's fair to say he's taking his last hurrah and riding off into the sunset. I'll call it like I see it. IF he does fight Mosley and then either Marg or Cotto again and IF other fighters (Floyd or Martinez etc) take on better competition then I think it is fair to say Manny is out of the running for p4p.

BUT I can't hate on the guy as he's given me too many great fights in the past to bust his balls over taking the money at the very end. I mean everyone is demanding the Floyd fight. Imagine if you had mooted that 5 years ago when he was busy fighting the Morales'and Barerra's of the world? You would've been laughed off these boards. Manny has far exceeded the expectations I ever had when I first saw him all those years ago.

Unlike Floyd I think he's earned it. But certainly if he does fight either of those guys next after Mosley we can certainly take it that he is in the final stages of his career.

I guess it coulda been a lot worse.

I get that you're a Pac fan. That's cool. I mean the guy fights his ass off every time he's in the ring. I respect that. I'm just saying people make a bigger deal out of his wins than they really are, especially when you take the surrounding circumstances into consideration. Let's agree that a rematch with either Cotto or Margarito is a fucking JOKE, and should be treated as such. If you want to say he deserves these joke matches as an ode to his career, that's your opinion, and as you know, I respect that. But don't deny that it's a ridiculous to consider them as more "milestones" in his career as they'll probably be taken as.

Pretty much buddy. I'm not going to turn on him for taking a couple of easy ones at the end of his career. But as I've already posted he takes himself out of any number one p4p considerations with these fights.

Good man.

I don't deny it at all. I've said that in my personal opinion he takes himself out of the elite conversations if these are his opponents. I'm cool with that. To tell you the truth I'm not sure his heart is 100% in boxing these days.

I don't think hardcore fans will take them as milestones and as you spend the majority of your time talking to hardcore fans on these types of forums you should be OK. Don't be concerned by popular opinion. When has that ever proven to be right?

Careful Snoop I think his early career is stellar even with those losses and that draw simply because he was fighting guys who are absolute legends in the sport. I still rate the Oscar win highly. When it was signed no-one had no idea that he would end that weight drained. And I'll still say is that had he had Floyd in his camp he would've never come in that weak. Roach took a chance with that fight and it paid off.

The Hatton KO was tremendous and I thought Cotto had got himself in great shape for their fight. To me it looked more like bad corner work and Cotto returning to bad habits that lost him the fight. He didn't look that weakened, how else did he stand up to that amount of punishment? So I take the Cotto fight as a good win.

The Marg fight is definately second tier but I thought Marg came in pretty good shape but Manny just punished him. I'll out that as a goodish win.

Clottey was third tier and it showed.

So really just the last couple I wouldn't call stellar wins and the next 2 might not be stellar wins either. Actions of a man looking towwards to retirement in my book.

Hey man, I was cool with Pac when he KO'd Hatton and as I said before, DLH deserved exactly what he got. In fact, he didn't start getting all this "Greatest of All Time" noise until he took on Cotto. That was a questionable win for me (and we both know we don't need to start this again), and it just went downhill from there.

Exactly. Haven't reached the hate part yet but I do wonder if Pac silently feels that the fire doesn't quite burn as bright as it did before. Sure the 24/7 was a smoke screen of sorts but I still feel there as some truth in what Ariza and Roach were saying. I wouldn't be surprised to see Manny fight to the end of nexy year and then call it quits.

Cotto was his last best fight and I bet Roach fucken kicks himself for asking for Cotto to take those 2 extra pounds off.

How in the world could anybody accept Pacquiao-Margarito II?

Hell who knows maybe floyd will quit beating on kids and women and get in the ring with pac this fall.

You'd be surprised. Hell, people accepted Pacquiao-Margarito I.

LMAO, Fuck Mayweather... how about Alexander, Bradley, Berto, Marquez... Shit, I would rather watch him fight a guy like Ortiz. BUt I get it, Arum is going to feed him used up fighters (that he has already demolished) so that he can sell the fight to Pactards (like yourself) and other dumb casual fans. I can see it now...

"Manny makes his historic run to capture a title in his 9th weight class when he fights Julio Cesar Chavez Jr for the WBC middleweight Diamond title. The fight will take place at a catchweight of 154.1!"

Cotto is one punch away from brain damage...Im a true cotto fan and I agree.... I dont think I want to see him fight anymore....

Cotto - Marg 2 would be a good scrap but means nothing... except to get bombarded with super fast punches which neither fighter can handle


Frankly, Arum makes me sick.......

In a perfect world:

Pac- Marquez

Pac- Mayweather

Cotto- Berto (winner gets winner of Pac- Mayweather / Cotto retires if he loses)

Mosely- Berto ( same as above)

Marg- Nobody (im done with this character and I hope the rest of the world is also)

lol

Don't worry people. Floyd will call Pac out. That is... after Pac announces his retirement.

"Top Rank/Team Pacquiao represents everything that is wrong with Boxing."

Yet another thread that's NOT about Floyd Mayweather, and yet, you can't seem to keep him out of your mouth.



Pactard!

My thoughts?

Duh!

"It's all about the Benjamins!" - Bob Arum

The question is why would Bob Arum NOT make ALL of those fights?

I mean, each one of those fights has 1 million+ PPV buys on average written all over it.

Pacquiao vs. Mosley = 1 million+ buys
Cotto vs. Margarito II = 1 million+ buys
Pacquiao vs. Cotto II = 1 million+ buys
Mosley vs. Margarito II = 1 million+ buys
Cotto vs. Mosley II = 1 million+ buys

5 PPV fights over the next 2 years = 5 million+ buys at $49.95 a pop = $249,750,000.00

Pacquiao vs. Mayweather = ???? = Let's say it did a WHOPPING 3 million+ buys at $54.95 = $164,850,000 which would have to be split 50/50 with Mayweather Promotions = $82,425,000

Now, those are just rough estimates that don't actually represent how all the money gets split up , and any one of those PPV events could do less than 1 million+ buys, but I figure they should all average out somewhere close to those numbers, so you get the picture.

The point is, if Mayweather did fight and beat Pacquiao, quite a few of those PPV events would lose their luster if THE Pacquiao did take a loss...or heck, they may not even happen at all if Pacquiao were to lose and decide to retire. So, I think Bob is making all the right BUSINESS moves because it's better to make those fights now while he can still capitalize on it.

Good for Arum and his company...sucks ass for fans though, but there's not really much you can do about it except voice your opinion to Top Rank and boycott the events should they happen. Then again, how many of you are willing to NOT watch those fights?

TOP RANK and BOB ARUM AREN'T THE THINGS WRONG WITH BOXING. theHype just confirmed that. Arum is trying to make fights that will sell to casual fans. Because, hardcore fans are outnumbered 10 to 1 we don't decide whether boxing dies or not. If we only have more of Floyd's (assuming he fights often) and Pac's analogues in the other weight divisions and boxing will be fine. Regardless of whether they are fighting mismatches or tailor made matches. In between those fights, statistically speaking we will occasionally witness legitimate fights. Those for hardcore fans.

Lol Im just saying maybe the fight with mayweather will happen next fall, lol

I dont disagree with your last post, but I was just curious, with Mayweather not even possessing a promoter's license, why would half of the money have to go to Mayweather Promotions? Or were you just referring to Mayweather in general?

No you weren't...you were just fulfilling your daily Pactard duties.

Mayweather in general

LMAO.

Fed UP with that shit...lol




I'll watch 'em....but I REFUSE to pay for 'em.

This x1000000

Like I don't even know what to say to this shit but I do know one thing the Pontoon WAS RIGHT We called it from the beginning.

Someone should tell the promoters that THE MAN MUNDINE wants to fight pac..... thats a no brainer, sign the fight....

I agree. I don't really care who Pac fights anymore I am so over it. He has faced the best 7 beat the best his whole career. if he wants to take some fat paychecks before retiring who am I to call him on it.

Put yourself in his shoes. You fight the best in your career for relative peanuts & then you fight a big name beat the shit out of him worse than anyone has ever done & become a bonafide superstar. You can make 10's of millions by fighing whoever is put in front of you. Who would not do that?

So you would like to see him fight a proven quitter like Ortiz? This is the guy who said he did not want to get hit anymore. Well against Pac he will get hit & then he will quit again as he has shown he is happy to so.

He'll STILL fight the best guy out there, but THAT guy won't even show up to the negotiating table. So Pac is in a sort of holding pattern, circling the runway and getting paid in the process.

In a way, they both are. Pac is staying busy beating up on Arum's ex-Champions, and Floyd is staying busy beating up on his ex-girlfriends and babies' mamas.

i agree 100% with this statement... id do the same thing, i cant lie... id take the easy fights i know im gonna win for more than double the money of the one fight ill probably lose... but dont critisize one fighter thats half of the super fight and not the other... thats what most try to do... they pick sides and then point the finger at the other fighter for a mega fight not happening (not just speaking on this fight but most of the other fights that never happened... its easy to say a fighter is ducking the other but most of the time its not the fighters its their team)... this fight, for what its worth could have been made when negotiations first where on the table and thats becoming more and more evident... not just because hype is looking like notradomus of boxing right now but if you listen to what arum has and is saying and then you listen to what the mayweather camp has said... the big puzzle that is pac vs mayweather mythical fight starts to come together pretty darn clear... lol... both sides have told you their plans from day one if you just listened to what was said so the fact the fight hasnt come to light and never will more than likely seems a lot more clear now... least in my mind. lol...

the scary thing is i hope arum isnt starting a trend here... meaning like ufc and strikeforce and k-1 etc that once fighters reach a certain level they have to sign with a certain promoter to get certain fights... thats whats wrong with mma (least one of the things i see) and that would be terrible if that happened in boxing... it used to be no matter how bad king and arum hated each other, and NO WAY gbp and arum have that kind of hate but when the fight mattered they chopped it up and got the fight done... kink and the duvas where the same way... what im seeing is arums croonies kepping their fighters in house and id bet and actually read an article yesterday ill try to find it on the possibility of golden boy keeping fights in house... from a fans point of view thats some scary shit... and you have to say wow at the fact that the most significant fight of this generation of fighters will never happen.... its not the first time but it sucks real bad when it happens... pac vs mayweather is one fight that would have single handidly brought the sport back to prime time exposure... i honestly believe neither fighter is to blame for the fight not happening... all hate in my opinion should lead to arum from a fans point of view... imo....

But that's the thing. He hasn't been facing the best his whole career. Sure, he's got some good names on his resume, but he's always taken them at the most opportune times during the downside of their careers or fought them at catchweights. So sure, Manny Pacquiao the catchweight king with timing of gold.




You goddamn right we were.

And every other promoter isn't trying to do the same damn thing?

I'll tell you what's wrong with boxing, Mora V. Mosley on PPV. That's what's wrong with boxing. And who put that one on? Opps golden Boy! And don't even get me started on Don King's tricks over the years. And Frank Warren in the UK and practically every other promoter in the game. Who was the dude stiffing Manny in the first part of his career? I forget but you know who I mean.

You wanna call the pontoon? Then you might as well make a pontoon for EVERYTHING in boxing.

say what you want about king but the guy helped keep boxing alive in some very pivotal times of the sport and helped usher in the last golden age of the sport back in the early 90's... is the dude a snake?... hell yeah.. a snake for the fighters.... was he a genius when it came to getting the big fights made?... hell yes he was... only true super fight i can think of that he dropped the ball on was tyson vs holyfield.... they should have fought back in the 80's.... but as it turned out they both made shit loads more then what they would have had they fought then.... its just the fight happened to late for the fans... king fucked his fighters and i blame them as much as i blame king... he made em all richer then they would have been had they never had boxing... most of em fucked off their money on their own doing rather king fucked them or not... from a fan standpoint... and i put this in bold cuzz no promoter ever put together better ppv cards with multiple championships, legit championship fights where every fight could have been the main even then don king did back in the early to mid if not later 90's... THE GUY IS THE GREATEST BOXING PROMOTER OF ALL TIME... PERIOD.

Sure I didn't say he was a great promoter but he wasn't much better than the rest of them ethically which is what we are discussing right? Remember when he wouldn't give you a shot at the HW title unless you gave him a piece of your career going forward? If that didn't happen you didn't get the fight.

Who should he have fought up to 130 that he did not? Sure he fought some money fights since then but the way you carry on is that he sits & waits for guys to get old or weight drained or unmotivated or to lose & then he fights them & that is the way he has been his whole career. Considering he has had two fucking fights at catchweights calling him the king of catchweights is a bit rich.

I really don't have a problem with Pac's career pre-Hatton. I was actually a pretty big fan, but any way you slice it, guys like Morales and Barerra were on the tail-end of their careers, he squeaked by Marquez, and who else is there really? David Diaz? Oscar Larios? Hector Velaquez? Weight drained DLH? (I'm not saying the weight drained DLH was Pac's fault, but fact still remains he didn't fight the best DLH). I was a pretty biased Pac fan back in the day, but now that I look at it, is his resume REALLY that great?

And for me catchweights are only real issues when they're implemented at the supposed "milestones" of someone's career. Like I said before, all this "Greatest-of-all-time-record-breaking-number-of-titles-in-multiple-divisions" business didn't really start circulating until after the Cotto fight and in those fights the catchweights DID matter. But beyond that, let's look at the opponents at the time. Sure, Cotto was once an up and coming superstar contender of the WW division, but where was he when he fought Pac? He got brutally stopped by Margarito, demolished the oh-so-renowned Michael Jennings, then edged out a decision against Clottey (which many thought he lost). Was he really the superstar he was before he ran into the Margarito barrier?

And then Margarito. When the fuck did he suddenly become some imposing threat in the 154 division? Was he still really carrying the "most feared boxer" badge of honor he once did when Floyd was supposedly "ducking" him? Margarito was mollywhopped by Mosley, found to guilty of attempted cheating (which cast a shadow of doubt on all his previous accomplishments regardless if you believe he used them before or not), then beat an unranked, unknown Roberto Garcia. Did he suddenly regain the "most feared" fighter moniker once he signed to fight Pac?



Look man, I know people here think I'm "just a Pac hater", but I find it funny we have a certain opinion on a fighter that suddenly changes once he signs a fight with Pacquiao. How would a similar resume look if the name attached to the other end of the billing was Mayweather?



I mean shit, at least Mayweather's last five opponents were all coming off wins in their last significant bout.

No way was Barerra at the tail end of his career when Pac gave him his first ass whooping. Morales for all his wars only showed real wear and tear in the 2nd fight. Maybe it was Pac that made him get old overnight?

And yes he fought prime Marquez and which ever way you slice it those were 2 very competitive fights against a bona fide legend and in the first if the dopey judge had got his scoring right he would've won. Marquez was kinda avoided by both Barerra and Morales yet Pac stepped up to the plate.

He fuckin smoked Hatton at Ricky's preferred weight.

I still rate the Cotto win even though you don''t. So that's subjective I guess. Yes the Clottey and Margarito fights are money fights, so what? Don't you think he's earned them?

As for the bolded part that you keep harping on about, really who says that? Really? Arum and a few million Filipino's, but nobody whose opinion you would value Snoop. For instance this board is pretty knowledgable and you clearly spend quite a bit of time here and you know that there are a few Pac fans here. And who amongst us ever says that. Your 'indignation' is hilarious.

Really just another stick to flog Manny with and one he didn't ask for.

Now if he said he was greater than SRL like a certain someone we both know.............................then maybe. But he doesn't so give it a break.

Back then I was a huge fan of Pac and you're right, he always took on the good fights in the featherweight division. But from what I've read from others more familiar with the careers of Barerra and Morales, they weren't anywhere near the prime as they once were whereas Pacquiao was just starting to reach his. Not Pac's fault, but still a fact of timing that shouldn't be ignored.


I hated Hatton more than I've ever hated Pacquiao so he gets a pass for that one.



But even then, after losing to Mayweather, Hatton almost gets KO'd when beating Lazcano, and then beats...Paulie Malinaggi. Where'd you rank Hatton at that point of his career?


Sure, but the thing they're not regarded as "money fights" by the major public. They're seen as these grand accomplishments when there's no merit behind them.


I mean yeah, who I'm really sick of are the Pactards and fair weather boxing fans that become overnight experts anytime Pacquiao fights, but in all honesty, I don't really know where some of the board members stand in regards to the legitimacy of his "legacy". Let's look at records of his last five opponents before they stepped in the ring with Pac:

Antonio Margarito
Roberto Garcia - UD win
Shane Mosley - KO loss
Miguel Cotto - KO win

Joshua Clottey
Miguel Cotto - UD loss
Zab Judah - TD win
Jose Luis Cruz - KO win

Miguel Cotto
Joshua Clottey - UD win
Michael Jennings - UD win
Antonio Margarito - KO loss

Ricky Hatton
Paulie Malinaggi - KO win
Juan Lazcano - UD win
Floyd Mayweather - KO loss

Oscar De La Hoya
Stevie Forbes - UD win
Floyd Mayweather - MD loss
Ricardo Mayorga - KO win

How legitimate are those wins when you take into consideration JUST the outcomes and level of opposition of his opponents before Pacquiao faced them? Sure, they had great names, but where were they in their careers when they met Pacquiao? And I'm not even taking into consideration the weight stipulations, the weight classes in which they fought, etc. I'm really in the dark as to where most people on this board stand when looking at this, but it feels like people are making a bigger deal of his recent wins than they actually were.


It's true that Pacquiao isn't going around proclaiming himself to be the best, but he's also not denying it. Personally, I think the whole "humble" persona is a huge act, but I digress...

Then maybe your anger should be directed at the public or maybe Arum?

Seriously what is Pac supposed to say? No no I'm not the best? I've never actually heard someone say to his face that he's the greatest of all time and him acknowledge it so if you can flick me the link for that I would be keen to take a look.