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JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Byrd Man @ Jan 19 2011, 09:04 PM) *
I suppose you are more than willing to watch Holyfield get beaten to death in the ring, when everyone else sees the outright ludicrous nature of that.

Even the Klitschkos have refused to fight him for that very reason. Anyone that SERIOUSLY suggests Holyfield fight them should have to undergo mental evaluation.


again... holyfield can do know worse than tim austin did arreola did and all the rest of them chumps they've fought... what he will do is give an honest effort where them other cats curled up... i dont agree with your statement at all... out of all the contenders on the scene, other than solis (and im guessing on him) holyfield is the only other guy that wont be scared of them (and adamek, he has heart he'll go down fighting and wlad is signed to fight him in september i believe)... thats at least a part of the battle right there (and i'm not picking him to win but im saying he can do no worse)... whats the guys name sonsowski (sp)... that dude wasnt scared and at least landed shots and he doesnt have the skill set of even a 48 yr old holyfield... just saying... solis aside who else would walk into that ring with the klits thats fighting today other holyfield that would at least give an honest effort?... i mean like it or not thats where the division is right now.. and fact is had the judges been on the up and up holyfield would have at least regained one strap from valuev, he would have been a holder of one of the belts probably right now... you really think valuev deserved to win that fight?... if you can answer that as yes then you, my friend, need a mental evaluation... lol...
BGv2.0
I think people who say stupid shit like Holyfield dies in the ring with the Klits have watched Rocky IV one too many times.

Do I think Holy wins....of course not. However, do I see him getting beat up the way most of you are going on about it...I highly doubt it.

I'm sure he would finish the fight with either brother and might even win a couple rounds.

point is...he is an opponent that could be fought. That was the original question asked.

You can't ask for a list of possible opponents that could lined up and then simply dismiss them because you do not feel they are worthy due to age or condition....fact is they are there....you berate the likes of Holy and Tua and be ok with Chisora and even Ademak.

You act is if being green and blown up somehow trump old and fat.....as great opposition....they don't.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 20 2011, 02:15 AM) *
I think people who say stupid shit like Holyfield dies in the ring with the Klits have watched Rocky IV one too many times.

Do I think Holy wins....of course not. However, do I see him getting beat up the way most of you are going on about it...I highly doubt it.

I'm sure he would finish the fight with either brother and might even win a couple rounds.

point is...he is an opponent that could be fought. That was the original question asked.

You can't ask for a list of possible opponents that could lined up and then simply dismiss them because you do not feel they are worthy due to age or condition....fact is they are there....you berate the likes of Holy and Tua and be ok with Chisora and even Ademak.

You act is if being green and blown up somehow trump old and fat.....as great opposition....they don't.


facts are the fighters that are available that would actually fight them are mostly older heavyweights... they are holyfield and tua.... with adamek being the youngest of the three that i can think of that will actually make a fight of it...
JLUVBABY
i forget who it was that mentioned demintrenko... that guy was soundly beaten by chambers... i know the fighter abc scenario but that guy would get fed a healthy jab and ko'd... hed be reduced like the rest... and dont get me wrong... holyfield, tua and adamek just might get reduced to surviving as well but just judging fro their track records they are the fighters most likely to give their all even in a losing effort... and valuev is a joke and a side show freak, he lost to the guy some of you are talking so bad about (holy) and got that hometown decision (home cooking at its finest right there)...
Byrd Man
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 20 2011, 12:13 AM) *
you really think valuev deserved to win that fight?... if you can answer that as yes then you, my friend, need a mental evaluation... lol...


Shit no, and I was on here bitching about that as soon as it happened. Holyfield got screwed out of the title.
Byrd Man
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 20 2011, 12:15 AM) *
I think people who say stupid shit like Holyfield dies in the ring with the Klits have watched Rocky IV one too many times.

Do I think Holy wins....of course not. However, do I see him getting beat up the way most of you are going on about it...I highly doubt it.

I'm sure he would finish the fight with either brother and might even win a couple rounds.

point is...he is an opponent that could be fought. That was the original question asked.

You can't ask for a list of possible opponents that could lined up and then simply dismiss them because you do not feel they are worthy due to age or condition....fact is they are there....you berate the likes of Holy and Tua and be ok with Chisora and even Ademak.

You act is if being green and blown up somehow trump old and fat.....as great opposition....they don't.


Perhaps I got off track a bit, but my original point was this: The general consensus by many boxing fans whenever Wlad fights someone is "oh here he is fighting another chump that's either washed up, or never was to begin with."

And aside from Haye and perhaps Adamek there's no one out there there in the division that does not fit that description really. The very few who don't fit that description would not be a viable option because the consensus would still be a "yawn" and "why should I care?"

Whether Holy would give a solid effort isn't the deal. of COURSE he would, he'd never lay down for anyone. I always loved watching him fight. I'm simply saying if that fight was announced tomorrow, the Klitschkos would rightly be crucified in the boxing world for taking that fight, because NOBODY (hardly) believes that fight should be made.

JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Byrd Man @ Jan 20 2011, 04:14 AM) *
Shit no, and I was on here bitching about that as soon as it happened. Holyfield got screwed out of the title.


there you go.. that answers what ive been saying... holyfield has a legit claim to fight the klits... he earned his chance to get knocked out or what ever happens... even at 48 he can do no worse than the other guys they've fought to date and and he actually has a better chance cuzz at least HE believes he can do it... that is the first step... you got to believe you can do it...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Byrd Man @ Jan 20 2011, 04:19 AM) *
Perhaps I got off track a bit, but my original point was this: The general consensus by many boxing fans whenever Wlad fights someone is "oh here he is fighting another chump that's either washed up, or never was to begin with."

And aside from Haye and perhaps Adamek there's no one out there there in the division that does not fit that description really. The very few who don't fit that description would not be a viable option because the consensus would still be a "yawn" and "why should I care?"

Whether Holy would give a solid effort isn't the deal. of COURSE he would, he'd never lay down for anyone. I always loved watching him fight. I'm simply saying if that fight was announced tomorrow, the Klitschkos would rightly be crucified in the boxing world for taking that fight, because NOBODY (hardly) believes that fight should be made.


you keep leaving solis out of that equation... if they where to fight i think he would beat adamek and hes proven once as an amateur what he is capable of doing with haye... in 2 months win or lose i think the boxing world will have a lot more respect for him as a fighter... he has a chance to beat vitali klilt... tho i will say i think he would have better chances vs wlad but IF he does beat vitali... he will be the next unified champ.. dude is skilled... i know he appears fat in there but i feel that weight is an illusion.. he doesnt fight like a fat out of shape fighter... i think he's the goods...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 20 2011, 03:16 AM) *
Chisora, Tua, Holyfield, Joe Blow, Tom, Dick, Harry or Toney, it doesn't really matter at this point, until someone stands up and does something where they actually earn it. Until then, they should keep quite and hope they are picked.


of these fighters listed.... evander holyfield has the best claim to the fight... he was jobbed vs valuev... and i say that hating that the man is still fighting at his age but he did deserve the win vs valuev that would have put that strap around his waist... he earned it off that (what should have been) victory alone... he won that fight..
gravytrain
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 20 2011, 03:15 AM) *
I think people who say stupid shit like Holyfield dies in the ring with the Klits have watched Rocky IV one too many times.

Do I think Holy wins....of course not. However, do I see him getting beat up the way most of you are going on about it...I highly doubt it.

I'm sure he would finish the fight with either brother and might even win a couple rounds.

point is...he is an opponent that could be fought. That was the original question asked.

You can't ask for a list of possible opponents that could lined up and then simply dismiss them because you do not feel they are worthy due to age or condition....fact is they are there....you berate the likes of Holy and Tua and be ok with Chisora and even Ademak.

You act is if being green and blown up somehow trump old and fat.....as great opposition....they don't.


Are they really any better though? Wanting other fights to take place instead of Chisora or Adamek then listing someone like Arreola is just putting down a name, there's not any substance to it. I'd rather watch the unknown in Chisora than see Arreola, to be honest Arreola is pretty fucking close to becoming irrelevant unless his fat ass really commits to boxing. The fact is there's no great opposition for either brother in the HW division, there are bound to be shitty fights at this point in time. Either brother and Haye is really the only interesting fight the division has to offer.

JLUVBABY
ok... fitz and smarty... how can you say holyfield hasnt earned a shot at one of them boys?... he did go over seas and get jobbed versus valuev... that fight is anywhere else and holyfield wears a strap.... That puts him in line for unifacation... not his fault he got robbed... compared to every body else thats out there and what they've done to this point haye aside he is next in line in my mind off that fight... who else has done more recently?.. and like i said before do i believe he is too old to be fighting them boys?... well yes... but did he earn the right to fight one of them?... yes sirs he did... he lost on the paper of corrupt judges... holy went out and did something he wasnt expected to do and that was out fight valuev... cant take that away from him... he did that regardless of the judges decision he had the better skill set that night... so if i understand you guys correctly lets say they gave him the fight that he deserved to win in the first place he still doesnt deserve his shot?.... its the same thing... he's in the same position as if he won cuzz 99 percent of the world was outraged on the decision except for the other 1 percent and those 3 judges... just saying id like for both of you in your own way to clarify to me why he doesnt deserve his shot or rather as young fitzgerald said didnt earn it?.. just curious to know what your thoughts are...
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 20 2011, 10:10 PM) *
I see what you are saying, though I never watched that fight and don't plan to any time soon. Though I haven't seen Holyfield push the issue, and I don't think he is helping himself by fighting Botha and now scheduled fights against Williams and Nielsen.
He lost a controversial decision against a shitty heavyweight. Based on that, I still don't think that is standing head and shoulders above the rest. Look, I'm not against Holyfield having a shot, I just don't think he has done much where I feel he is owed a shot.


No disrespect here...but IMHO if you have never seen that fight you really have no business making an argument that Holy has done nothing to earn a shot. Because had you seen it...you would have seen it for the blatent robbery it was...it was not simply "controversial"...not one single person that has ever seen that fight can HONESTLY make an argument for Valuev getting the win. And although Valuev is not Wlad or Vitali....he is still an extreamly large man with height and a long armed jab....

you couple that fight with Holyfield beating 3-4 guys.....I don't really see how that does NOT warrent you a shot....and that's without considering Holy's reputation and history in the division. Any guy in the divison that can string together 3-4 wins even if it's crap opposition....should be able to get a shot.

Brian neilson and Botha and Williams are at the very least KNOWN HW's....should Holyfield get those 3 wins coupled witht he Valuev robbery....I can damn well say without question that's more than this Chisora dude or even Adamek has done to warrent a shot.

QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 20 2011, 06:01 PM) *
Are they really any better though? Wanting other fights to take place instead of Chisora or Adamek then listing someone like Arreola is just putting down a name, there's not any substance to it. I'd rather watch the unknown in Chisora than see Arreola, to be honest Arreola is pretty fucking close to becoming irrelevant unless his fat ass really commits to boxing. The fact is there's no great opposition for either brother in the HW division, there are bound to be shitty fights at this point in time. Either brother and Haye is really the only interesting fight the division has to offer.


I never said "better"...the question was asked if there were anybody else to fight.

And in relation to Wlad...yes...I do think arreola brings something to the table. A punch....couple that with multiple deckings and a KO losses by Wlad....no matter how long ago it's been...that is an aspect that Arreoloa brings that makes a fight between those two interesting.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 21 2011, 02:17 AM) *
No disrespect here...but IMHO if you have never seen that fight you really have no business making an argument that Holy has done nothing to earn a shot. Because had you seen it...you would have seen it for the blatent robbery it was...it was not simply "controversial"...not one single person that has ever seen that fight can HONESTLY make an argument for Valuev getting the win. And although Valuev is not Wlad or Vitali....he is still an extreamly large man with height and a long armed jab....

you couple that fight with Holyfield beating 3-4 guys.....I don't really see how that does NOT warrent you a shot....and that's without considering Holy's reputation and history in the division. Any guy in the divison that can string together 3-4 wins even if it's crap opposition....should be able to get a shot.

Brian neilson and Botha and Williams are at the very least KNOWN HW's....should Holyfield get those 3 wins coupled witht he Valuev robbery....I can damn well say without question that's more than this Chisora dude or even Adamek has done to warrent a shot.



I never said "better"...the question was asked if there were anybody else to fight.

And in relation to Wlad...yes...I do think arreola brings something to the table. A punch....couple that with multiple deckings and a KO losses by Wlad....no matter how long ago it's been...that is an aspect that Arreoloa brings that makes a fight between those two interesting.


damn... lol... nuff said... lol... glad someone sees the same thing i do on this...
JLUVBABY
thought i'd share this with yall.. i love this cartoon... lol...

gravytrain
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 21 2011, 03:17 AM) *
No disrespect here...but IMHO if you have never seen that fight you really have no business making an argument that Holy has done nothing to earn a shot. Because had you seen it...you would have seen it for the blatent robbery it was...it was not simply "controversial"...not one single person that has ever seen that fight can HONESTLY make an argument for Valuev getting the win. And although Valuev is not Wlad or Vitali....he is still an extreamly large man with height and a long armed jab....

you couple that fight with Holyfield beating 3-4 guys.....I don't really see how that does NOT warrent you a shot....and that's without considering Holy's reputation and history in the division. Any guy in the divison that can string together 3-4 wins even if it's crap opposition....should be able to get a shot.

Brian neilson and Botha and Williams are at the very least KNOWN HW's....should Holyfield get those 3 wins coupled witht he Valuev robbery....I can damn well say without question that's more than this Chisora dude or even Adamek has done to warrent a shot.



I never said "better"...the question was asked if there were anybody else to fight.

And in relation to Wlad...yes...I do think arreola brings something to the table. A punch....couple that with multiple deckings and a KO losses by Wlad....no matter how long ago it's been...that is an aspect that Arreoloa brings that makes a fight between those two interesting.


He'd a punch knocking out bums, he hasn't put it to use against any of the better opposition he's faced. Arreola would just get jabbed to death for 12 rounds in a very uneventful fight where he gets frustrated and quits trying. I wouldn't be surprised if his trainer stopped it after 8-9 rounds.

If they're not much better then I don't really see a point of Wlad going out of his way to fight them. Adamek got them a stadium in Poland so I wouldn't expect him to pass that up and Chisora is unproven but all the proven fighters have either been beat by Wlad or don't want the inevitable fight my brother contract. I don't really mind though since I don't know much of him, he could get knocked out in 1 round or put on a good fight but up til the fight I can actually wonder what will happen and have an interest in the fight instead of just waiting for the highlights.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 21 2011, 08:22 AM) *
JLUV, JLUV, JLUV . . . where did I ever say that The Ghost of Holyfield does not deserve a shot (if you can find it, please post it, so I can prove to my physician that I do need that strong stuff)?

Dude should be playing wit his grandchildren and supporting his many love children (oops). OK, I get it now. Devon's mother is after her share.

Seriously, if The Ghost of Holyfield can get by these next two dudes (without a grabber), give The Bastard Maker his shot.


roflmao!!!
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 21 2011, 03:17 PM) *
He'd a punch knocking out bums, he hasn't put it to use against any of the better opposition he's faced. Arreola would just get jabbed to death for 12 rounds in a very uneventful fight where he gets frustrated and quits trying. I wouldn't be surprised if his trainer stopped it after 8-9 rounds.

If they're not much better then I don't really see a point of Wlad going out of his way to fight them. Adamek got them a stadium in Poland so I wouldn't expect him to pass that up and Chisora is unproven but all the proven fighters have either been beat by Wlad or don't want the inevitable fight my brother contract. I don't really mind though since I don't know much of him, he could get knocked out in 1 round or put on a good fight but up til the fight I can actually wonder what will happen and have an interest in the fight instead of just waiting for the highlights.


im not so sure gravy... i think style wise aareola matches up a lot better with wlad then with vitali... not saying he''s win but if he fought him with his aggressive style he would have a shot i think... im not sure wlad punches harder than vitali and aareola at least stood up to the punches... but shit as i think about this you might still be right... lol...
gravytrain
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 21 2011, 07:01 PM) *
im not so sure gravy... i think style wise aareola matches up a lot better with wlad then with vitali... not saying he''s win but if he fought him with his aggressive style he would have a shot i think... im not sure wlad punches harder than vitali and aareola at least stood up to the punches... but shit as i think about this you might still be right... lol...


I think Wlad would actually be more frustrating for him. Arreola's confidence is already gone, he isn't going to come at him like he did Vitali. I see him fighting Wlad's fight and getting shut out. He didn't go for it in his comeback fight against a nobody on ESPN, I'd say the HW champion beats the ugly off of Arreola but that would take 30 rounds.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 21 2011, 10:03 PM) *
I think Wlad would actually be more frustrating for him. Arreola's confidence is already gone, he isn't going to come at him like he did Vitali. I see him fighting Wlad's fight and getting shut out. He didn't go for it in his comeback fight against a nobody on ESPN, I'd say the HW champion beats the ugly off of Arreola but that would take 30 rounds.


I don't think it's a given. What you say does make sense...but there are other ways to look at it as well. Arreola did get himself in pretty decent shape for Vitali..at least for him. He could do the same with Wlad. and it could be argued that due to that loss he would be motovated to have a better showing.

I just dont think people should dismiss an opponent due to the other brother getting a win...that's what makes thier whole fucked up homo erotic "Reign"....so shitty. A lot of possible opposition gets passed over because folks just assume that if one beat you the other would too.

Like I said,although they may look exactley the same....they are two separate people.
Lil-lightsout
Arreola is young and has/had opportunities to get his fat ass in shape, and so far he has failed. It would be one thing if he was an old veteran of the sport, which we see a lot of, but he is young and there is no reason for him to be such a fat slob. It is absolutely pathetic of him to show up like he does, there should be no excuse at all for him. If this fool could not get motivated for a world title shot against Vitali, how can he ever get motivated? And if I remember correctly he was also a fat slob against Adamek. Give me a break.

You have zero problems ripping on Toney for years, stop making pathetic excuses for this waste of space in the heavies. Toney has accomplished 100 times more than this lazy YOUNG turd.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 21 2011, 10:44 PM) *
Arreola is young and has/had opportunities to get his fat ass in shape, and so far he has failed. It would be one thing if he was an old veteran of the sport, which we see a lot of, but he is young and there is no reason for him to be such a fat slob. It is absolutely pathetic of him to show up like he does, there should be no excuse at all for him. If this fool could not get motivated for a world title shot against Vitali, how can he ever get motivated? And if I remember correctly he was also a fat slob against Adamek. Give me a break.

You have zero problems ripping on Toney for years, stop making pathetic excuses for this waste of space in the heavies. Toney has accomplished 100 times more than this lazy YOUNG turd.


That's about how I see it. Ultimately the fighter has to make a choice, if he's not willing to do anything to be where he wants to be then no trainer or coaches can get him to that position. I just don't think he has it and has shown he doesn't have it.

QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 21 2011, 09:47 PM) *
I don't think it's a given. What you say does make sense...but there are other ways to look at it as well. Arreola did get himself in pretty decent shape for Vitali..at least for him. He could do the same with Wlad. and it could be argued that due to that loss he would be motovated to have a better showing.

I just dont think people should dismiss an opponent due to the other brother getting a win...that's what makes thier whole fucked up homo erotic "Reign"....so shitty. A lot of possible opposition gets passed over because folks just assume that if one beat you the other would too.

Like I said,although they may look exactley the same....they are two separate people.


I know they've two different styles, Arreola just isn't going to be in a fight with either of them. I don't think his trainers would want him near any Klit for at least 2-3 fights either.

I'd be pretty damn motivated to beat Adamek if I was Arreola and if I remember correctly he came in heavier than usual and he probably skipped some days of his camp too. I think he's only willing to give so much to the sport and it just isn't enough for him to be a premier fighter. I don't pass him off because Vitali beat him, I pass him off because I really have no interest in seeing him get his ass kicked when Adamek and Chisora leave more to the imagination.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 21 2011, 10:44 PM) *
You have zero problems ripping on Toney for years, stop making pathetic excuses for this waste of space in the heavies. Toney has accomplished 100 times more than this lazy YOUNG turd.


I'm not making excuses for Arreola's fatass....I'm saying that the fact that fatass has a punch and Wlad's chin has shown in the past that it is far from great...makes a matchup between the two slightly interesting and never a sure bet.

And what he has accomplished sccording to many in relation to Holyfield has zero to do with anything (I myself do not agree with this).

My problem with JT has not ONLY focused on his waistline....it's his stature and lack of power at the HW level...as well as his condition issues.

AND....you must have not read my previous post where I stated that I include JT as a possible opponent.


QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 22 2011, 12:20 AM) *
I know they've two different styles, Arreola just isn't going to be in a fight with either of them. I don't think his trainers would want him near any Klit for at least 2-3 fights either.

I'd be pretty damn motivated to beat Adamek if I was Arreola and if I remember correctly he came in heavier than usual and he probably skipped some days of his camp too. I think he's only willing to give so much to the sport and it just isn't enough for him to be a premier fighter. I don't pass him off because Vitali beat him, I pass him off because I really have no interest in seeing him get his ass kicked when Adamek and Chisora leave more to the imagination.


"Arreola just isn't going to be in a fight with either of them".......this is what I'm talking about. You are assuming that, but you are stating it as a fact...

Why you are capable of that line of thought but not taking Wlad's chin and arreola's power into consideration as a SLIGHT possibility is beyond me.

AND..I think it's important to point out while everybody rips on a possible arreola matchup...yet for whatever reason seems to give Adamek a shot.....seems to have forgotten that Adamek BARELY eeked by the same fatass everybody claims is not worthy of a shot....

Again...I'll restate...all I've ever said was that there are people in the division that Wlad could fight that have some level of ability, power, name value...whatever....they do in fact exist.

It really is a sad state of affairs when people are actually arguing the validity of a F'N unknown for a shot at a championship.

BUT....this is where we are.... thumbsdown_anim.gif
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 21 2011, 08:47 PM) *
I don't think it's a given. What you say does make sense...but there are other ways to look at it as well. Arreola did get himself in pretty decent shape for Vitali..at least for him. He could do the same with Wlad. and it could be argued that due to that loss he would be motovated to have a better showing.

I just dont think people should dismiss an opponent due to the other brother getting a win...that's what makes thier whole fucked up homo erotic "Reign"....so shitty. A lot of possible opposition gets passed over because folks just assume that if one beat you the other would too.

Like I said,although they may look exactley the same....they are two separate people.

what ive noticed with the two brothers, and not sure how many of you have thought about this in this manner, but what i've noticed is how they pick their opponent... with them being the two dominant champs and never going to fight each other they can pretty much seperate the fighters into the categories of who matches up better with who... my point is that wlad fought tony thompson who is actually a descent heavyweight... but thompson fight wise would have matched up better with vitali as far as styles and thompson having a better chance to win.... vitali fought chris aareola... chris style wise would have matched up much better with wladimir as far as styles... wlad would have fought him much different than vitali and chris i think would have had his moments in a fight like that just as most punchers have had their moments with wlad... it is what it is... wlad was in very serious trouble and down vs devarryll williamson and was a punch or so away from losing that fight... thats the problem they have monopolized the division and its the reason haye, if he ever fights a klit will fight vitali and not wlad... vitali takes the better shot and i think they know it... that also may be the reason the fights arent being made with haye... cuzz haye knows style wise vitali is a much tougher fight and he wants to get paid for it.... i think if they serve up wlad and make everything fair we'd see them in the ring... just my opinion on the klits monopoly and the haye situation...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 22 2011, 08:58 AM) *
Yeah, JLUV, I've thought about it and commented about it more than once. I call them The Klit Sisters for a reason. Their legacies are tarnished by their refusal to fight the best fighter in the division- each other.

Don't start with all the pathetic, whining assed defenses of their refusal. I've heard it all. I understand why they don't fight each other. It does not change the fact that at any time in heavyweight history there have usually only been two to four real contenders. The problem is that in this era they are sisters and not only do they refuse to fight but they act as though they are a two headed monster with the division, cherrypicking opponents relative to each sister's strength's and weaknesses.

Any way you slice it, the heavyweight division is fucked up as a result. If there was only one Sister Klit, she would not be as able to avoid fighters that are more of a threat.

Again, this aint the alley outside of a Rio night club; "You take the big assed chocolate dumpling and I'll take the one who keeps checking himself out in the window."


thats it exactly... if there was just one brother fighting the division would be a lot better off as a whole.... i mean dont get me wrong its a shit division but the are smart if nothing else... they strategically fight the guys that best compliment their style... cant say i blame them but its only gonna hurt their legacy in the long run...
BGv2.0
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 22 2011, 12:04 PM) *
thats it exactly... if there was just one brother fighting the division would be a lot better off as a whole.... i mean dont get me wrong its a shit division but the are smart if nothing else... they strategically fight the guys that best compliment their style... cant say i blame them but its only gonna hurt their legacy in the long run...


I've always said their "legacy" is nothing more than a polished turd. I've always given them credit for being the biggest, most impressive turd in the bowl at an outhouse of a HW division.

AND...I've always said it's too bad for them and it is not their fault...because it is not. Where they have to take on a lot of the blame is not taking out crap opposition in a spectacular fashion....but that's a whole other discussion.

JLUVBABY
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 22 2011, 12:42 PM) *
I've always said their "legacy" is nothing more than a polished turd. I've always given them credit for being the biggest, most impressive turd in the bowl at an outhouse of a HW division.

AND...I've always said it's too bad for them and it is not their fault...because it is not. Where they have to take on a lot of the blame is not taking out crap opposition in a spectacular fashion....but that's a whole other discussion.


im very interested to see how they would have faired in the division back in the 90's... fighting those guys... as you know im converting my colection and im coming across some fights that have been forgotten but the division was really good back then.. i mean even the fringe contenders had upset wins on their ledgers... the division was truly great back then.
gravytrain
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 22 2011, 03:32 AM) *
I'm not making excuses for Arreola's fatass....I'm saying that the fact that fatass has a punch and Wlad's chin has shown in the past that it is far from great...makes a matchup between the two slightly interesting and never a sure bet.

And what he has accomplished sccording to many in relation to Holyfield has zero to do with anything (I myself do not agree with this).

My problem with JT has not ONLY focused on his waistline....it's his stature and lack of power at the HW level...as well as his condition issues.

AND....you must have not read my previous post where I stated that I include JT as a possible opponent.




"Arreola just isn't going to be in a fight with either of them".......this is what I'm talking about. You are assuming that, but you are stating it as a fact...

Why you are capable of that line of thought but not taking Wlad's chin and arreola's power into consideration as a SLIGHT possibility is beyond me.

AND..I think it's important to point out while everybody rips on a possible arreola matchup...yet for whatever reason seems to give Adamek a shot.....seems to have forgotten that Adamek BARELY eeked by the same fatass everybody claims is not worthy of a shot....

Again...I'll restate...all I've ever said was that there are people in the division that Wlad could fight that have some level of ability, power, name value...whatever....they do in fact exist.

It really is a sad state of affairs when people are actually arguing the validity of a F'N unknown for a shot at a championship.

BUT....this is where we are.... thumbsdown_anim.gif


You really think Arreola wants a piece of either of them right now? One more big loss and his fat ass might be picking oranges.

What has happened every time Arreola has got in the ring with someone that can box? He's lost. Vitali beat the breaks off of him, Adamek embarassed him and had him begging to slug it out, and Wlad's slow methodical style would have a towel coming out of his corner. The last thing his team would want right now is a fight with Wlad anyway, he just got a new head trainer. I don't know about you but I'm not about to give my fighter a learning fight against Wlad, especially not in the position my fighter's career is in right now. If he gets in the ring with Wlad it'll be later on down the road, not in 2011 and maybe not even in 2012.

Chisora being unknown is about the only thing going for him, he sparks the imagination in a boring division. Nobody knows how Chisora will react when his back is against the wall. And to be honest other than Haye there really isn't an entertaining fight for Wlad or Vitali for the foreseeable future so anyone else is disappointing anyway.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 22 2011, 03:48 PM) *
im very interested to see how they would have faired in the division back in the 90's... fighting those guys... as you know im converting my colection and im coming across some fights that have been forgotten but the division was really good back then.. i mean even the fringe contenders had upset wins on their ledgers... the division was truly great back then.


The 90's HW division is considered by many to be the best, deepest HW division ever....of course that's not without debate.

But it was very deep....I myself will always be of the opinion that the Klits although a challenge in any era due to their sheer size and ability....I do not see them being as dominant as they are in this terrible division.

It will always be a forever unknown....but the list of hard/capable punchers would have been very difficult for Wlad to survive with no KO losses. Tyson, Lewis, Bruno, Morrison, Rudduck, Mercer, Foreman, Moorer, Holy, Holmes, Bowe, Golota, Tua, Rahman, Tucker....

I just can't see him NOT getting KO'd a few times on that list.

Now.....Vitali...due to the better chin I actually think fairs better...but due to his stiff, less fluid form of fighting...I think he losses a few decesions.

BUT...had they been there I think their names would be listed with the rest of those as an example...that's for sure....but do I think they dominate as they do now.....NO WAY!


QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 22 2011, 04:43 PM) *
You really think Arreola wants a piece of either of them right now? One more big loss and his fat ass might be picking oranges.

What has happened every time Arreola has got in the ring with someone that can box? He's lost. Vitali beat the breaks off of him, Adamek embarassed him and had him begging to slug it out, and Wlad's slow methodical style would have a towel coming out of his corner. The last thing his team would want right now is a fight with Wlad anyway, he just got a new head trainer. I don't know about you but I'm not about to give my fighter a learning fight against Wlad, especially not in the position my fighter's career is in right now. If he gets in the ring with Wlad it'll be later on down the road, not in 2011 and maybe not even in 2012.

Chisora being unknown is about the only thing going for him, he sparks the imagination in a boring division. Nobody knows how Chisora will react when his back is against the wall. And to be honest other than Haye there really isn't an entertaining fight for Wlad or Vitali for the foreseeable future so anyone else is disappointing anyway.


I don't know if he does or not....I know he seems like a guy that does not quit...or at least it's seemed that way in his losses...so I'm not so sure he has a run and hide mentality.


We are pretty well arguing in circles...as you and I just have different opinions on what an "interesting" fight would be. You see zero interest in a arreola or Holy match....I do not agree with that....so we just see that differently.

AND...I'm not totally AGAINST a Chisora match....keep in mind I started the Chisora War Train!

BUT....this all goes back to the original arugument that their are zero other fighters that they could fight....I disagree with that.
JLUVBABY
well now its safe to say holyfield doesnt need to fight on... williams had a shot in this fight... he was stickin holyfield...
BGv2.0
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 23 2011, 01:06 AM) *
well now its safe to say holyfield doesnt need to fight on... williams had a shot in this fight... he was stickin holyfield...



I'm not gonna say that based on less than 3 ronds and a stoppage from a cut...

There was a LOT of rounds left to go....

it's a shame it ended by cut.
gravytrain
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 22 2011, 08:17 PM) *
The 90's HW division is considered by many to be the best, deepest HW division ever....of course that's not without debate.

But it was very deep....I myself will always be of the opinion that the Klits although a challenge in any era due to their sheer size and ability....I do not see them being as dominant as they are in this terrible division.

It will always be a forever unknown....but the list of hard/capable punchers would have been very difficult for Wlad to survive with no KO losses. Tyson, Lewis, Bruno, Morrison, Rudduck, Mercer, Foreman, Moorer, Holy, Holmes, Bowe, Golota, Tua, Rahman, Tucker....

I just can't see him NOT getting KO'd a few times on that list.

Now.....Vitali...due to the better chin I actually think fairs better...but due to his stiff, less fluid form of fighting...I think he losses a few decesions.

BUT...had they been there I think their names would be listed with the rest of those as an example...that's for sure....but do I think they dominate as they do now.....NO WAY!




I don't know if he does or not....I know he seems like a guy that does not quit...or at least it's seemed that way in his losses...so I'm not so sure he has a run and hide mentality.


We are pretty well arguing in circles...as you and I just have different opinions on what an "interesting" fight would be. You see zero interest in a arreola or Holy match....I do not agree with that....so we just see that differently.

AND...I'm not totally AGAINST a Chisora match....keep in mind I started the Chisora War Train!

BUT....this all goes back to the original arugument that their are zero other fighters that they could fight....I disagree with that.


to be honest i'm only really entertained by the thought of Wlad or Vitali against Haye, after Wlad fights Adamek that's going to be it in terms of "exciting" fights probably until Wlad retires. the HW division just really isn't what it used to be and at this point Wlad and Vitali have either beat or can't get fights with all the top fighters. there aren't literally 0 fights but it's just who Wlad and Vitali want to fight or have to fight.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jan 22 2011, 11:58 PM) *
I'm not gonna say that based on less than 3 ronds and a stoppage from a cut...

There was a LOT of rounds left to go....

it's a shame it ended by cut.


i hate to say it bout him and it would have been a good story but sherman was shaking him and hinestyl i dont think that cut was bothering him as much as they let on... it, to mee seemed like a nice out in a fight he knew was aboutto get tough... williams was starting to get brave and was shaking holyfield...
ViperSniper
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 23 2011, 07:51 AM) *
i hate to say it bout him and it would have been a good story but sherman was shaking him and hinestyl i dont think that cut was bothering him as much as they let on... it, to mee seemed like a nice out in a fight he knew was aboutto get tough... williams was starting to get brave and was shaking holyfield...


Just finished watching the fight and I totally agree with this right here. For starters the cut was never ruled a headbutt (which it was accidental) until after the fight had stopped, but I don't think it was a bad enough to be stopped when it did. Williams was stopping Holyfield in his tracks with hard shots before the butt happened, with a clean shot to the head and had the former champ slightly hurt at the end of the round.

I think it's wise to keep this 48 year old away from the brothers!
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Jan 23 2011, 12:08 AM) *
Just finished watching the fight and I totally agree with this right here. For starters the cut was never ruled a headbutt (which it was accidental) until after the fight had stopped, but I don't think it was a bad enough to be stopped when it did. Williams was stopping Holyfield in his tracks with hard shots before the butt happened, with a clean shot to the head and had the former champ slightly hurt at the end of the round.

I think it's wise to keep this 48 year old away from the brothers!

The Ghost of Holyfield proved 1 thing tonight- he actually does not want to die in the ring.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
I've decided this is just a mess. Almost as big a mess as Pac/PBF.

I don't like the Gayemaker but for some reason The Klits have dropped the ball on this one as well.

I don't know why they even want all these crazy rematch clauses in the contract? One sufficient beating from either Klit should be enough to send Gaye into retirement and off on his quest to become the first black James Bond.

Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 22 2011, 10:20 AM) *
what ive noticed with the two brothers, and not sure how many of you have thought about this in this manner, but what i've noticed is how they pick their opponent... with them being the two dominant champs and never going to fight each other they can pretty much seperate the fighters into the categories of who matches up better with who... my point is that wlad fought tony thompson who is actually a descent heavyweight... but thompson fight wise would have matched up better with vitali as far as styles and thompson having a better chance to win.... vitali fought chris aareola... chris style wise would have matched up much better with wladimir as far as styles... wlad would have fought him much different than vitali and chris i think would have had his moments in a fight like that just as most punchers have had their moments with wlad... it is what it is... wlad was in very serious trouble and down vs devarryll williamson and was a punch or so away from losing that fight... thats the problem they have monopolized the division and its the reason haye, if he ever fights a klit will fight vitali and not wlad... vitali takes the better shot and i think they know it... that also may be the reason the fights arent being made with haye... cuzz haye knows style wise vitali is a much tougher fight and he wants to get paid for it.... i think if they serve up wlad and make everything fair we'd see them in the ring... just my opinion on the klits monopoly and the haye situation...

I agree J.
Maxy
I'm now reading that Adam Booth has been in France negotiating for a fight between Jean Marc Mormeck and Haye.....

It's only rumours at the moment but if this turns out to be true......
lloyd mayflower
I'm afraid fighting Mormeck would be the end of Haye as far as i'm concerned. Cant find any way to give him a pass for following up Fraudley with Mormeck
SENTRAL
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Maxy
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Jan 24 2011, 11:33 AM) *
I'm afraid fighting Mormeck would be the end of Haye as far as i'm concerned. Cant find any way to give him a pass for following up Fraudley with Mormeck


Monte Barrett, John Ruiz, Audley Harrison and Jean Marc Mormeck. A heavyweight resume to be proud of, the stuff of legends and the envy of past champions. I salute Haye for his courage, his bravery and his commitment to bringing back excitement to the heavyweight division. Truly a man of his word, a man of genius. Lets all applaud that man.
lloyd mayflower
Haye is taking advantage of the void left by Hatton and Calzaghe. Him and Booth have realised they can sell this shit now and it looks like their just cashing out. Its fucking criminal the Haye is always on box office fighting bums and theres barely a punter in the street who knows who Carl Froch is
Maxy
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Jan 24 2011, 02:29 PM) *
Haye is taking advantage of the void left by Hatton and Calzaghe. Him and Booth have realised they can sell this shit now and it looks like their just cashing out. Its fucking criminal the Haye is always on box office fighting bums and theres barely a punter in the street who knows who Carl Froch is


Well I was reading in one of the weekend papers that Sky were thinking about putting Froch-Johnson and Haye-Insert Name on a special double header some time in May. It's about time Froch was given more exposure over here and with him on the bill there will be a lot of genuine fans who'd stump up the cash to see it.

Haye has lost a lot of interest from the general public and I find it hard to see how Sky will be able to sell another of his fights unless he faces a Klit. Add Froch, problem partially solved perhaps?
lloyd mayflower
I'd probably buy that. Id like to see Groves v Degale on it too.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Maxy @ Jan 24 2011, 09:34 AM) *
I'm now reading that Adam Booth has been in France negotiating for a fight between Jean Marc Mormeck and Haye.....

It's only rumours at the moment but if this turns out to be true......


I can see why Wlad wants to tie up Chisora, I've no doubt in my mind Haye would fight him if given the chance. It'd probably be a better sell than the Harrison fight too, especially if he got Chisora before Wlad. Seriously though, Mormeck? Haye is such a joke.
The CEO
Per a certain, fat, mainstream hack....Haye wants Holyfield now.

lol...wouldn't put it past him at ALL.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The CEO @ Jan 25 2011, 09:06 AM) *
Per a certain, fat, mainstream hack....Haye wants Holyfield now.

lol...wouldn't put it past him at ALL.


for other reasons maybe that needs to happen... holyfield gets a title shot again and loses very bad... should be a good walk out fight for him... cuzz haye would knock him out after what i saw saturday 1 or 2 rounds... holy doesnt last as long as harrison...
Maxy
Nah, Holyfield ain't gonna happen....might have been an option if he beat up Williams the other night but not now. David is probably trying to entice Lennox, Mike...maybe Tim Witherspoon or for an all British encounter with the nations favourite...Frank Bruno out of retirement.

After all he must be getting desperate!
lloyd mayflower
I never used to like big Frank much. But then last week I seen an interview with him where he was referring to someone, possibly Wlad, as a "serious cup of tea". He is now elevated to hero status
Maxy
Frank always came to fight in great shape...

I think he could do a job these days, definitely create a little bit of interest they way things are now. He was boxing well with Lewis, beating him but then the same old story happened when he faced the elite and he got beat. Really wanted him to win that night....only mentioning that fight cos I rewatched it a couple of weeks back.
gravytrain
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Jan 25 2011, 02:30 PM) *
I never used to like big Frank much. But then last week I seen an interview with him where he was referring to someone, possibly Wlad, as a "serious cup of tea". He is now elevated to hero status


what does that mean?
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