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BrutalBodyShots
And on Pay Per View at that?

I didn't even realize that Sherman Williams was still fighting. I see he's only fought once in 2 years and it was a loss. I remember this guy never making it past trial horse level over a decade ago.

Not to say that Holyfield is the man or anything these days, but certainly he could have found a better caliber opponent. Then I see his next fight after he beats Williams will be against Brian Neilsen, a guy that has not fought in 8 years.

Holyfield at the very least should be sticking with Botha/Valuev caliber opponents as he's done well with them. If he's going to take a step down, he may as well retire.

Sunni6Killer
He wants free paint.

Holyfield is done, top guys wouldn't gain anything from fighting him.
Byrd Man
QUOTE (Sunni6Killer @ Dec 26 2010, 08:24 AM) *
He wants free paint.

Holyfield is done, top guys wouldn't gain anything from fighting him.

lol. I think of that everytime I hear his name.

JLUVBABY
funny thing about this all is if holyfield was to fight one of the klits he cant do any worse than their last opponents have... yeah hed get blasted but he'll go down blazing guns... thats more than can be said for their last opponents that turn in to turtles and hide in shells...
BrutalBodyShots
I would actually take Holyfield over a good many of both Klitschko's opponents in the last several years.
JLUVBABY
call me crazy but id actually give him an outside shot vs vlad... i me hes not gonna have fear to at least get in there and try and we know wlads chin can be touched... id watch that fight... even now..
off the subject but who alls gonna order holyfield vs williams?!!! lol... if its 9.99 ill break down and order it... lol... that shit better not be no 30 or 40 bucks... it will flop bad...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Dec 27 2010, 03:12 AM) *
call me crazy but id actually give him an outside shot vs vlad... i me hes not gonna have fear to at least get in there and try and we know wlads chin can be touched... id watch that fight... even now..
off the subject but who alls gonna order holyfield vs williams?!!! lol... if its 9.99 ill break down and order it... lol... that shit better not be no 30 or 40 bucks... it will flop bad...



A few things jluv.

1- I give you some damn props because for quite some time you are always purchasing PPV fights, seems like all of them, lol.

2-I have not seen Wlad's chin touched in a while. Only thing of recent touching his chin is Hayden's ...

3- Holyfield got zero shot against Wlad. Klit could be banging HP in the dressing room minutes before entering the ring and still easily dissect the old man. Shit, she could be blowing him between rounds and he still would have zero problems with Evander.

4-Holyfield probably needs money from all his bastard kids. Plus he is delusional.
BGv2.0
Holyfield is still fighting because the division is so terrible that even at his advanced age he can still compete with the majority of the HW division.

SHAME ON YOU ALL that rip on the guy for taking what he clearly can STILL get. Just because the man is ancient and old does and should not discount what all he has given to the sport.

You act as if it is his FAULT that he still gets offers from promoters. I'll present the question this way....if you were nearly 50 years of age...still half ass competitive and not getting KO'd everytime you stepped in the ring....would you still not try to make some bucks??

I know I would!

AND...at the end of the day...what does any of this hurt? Holy/Williams....does it really have any adverse affect on the division? If you don't want to see it...don't buy it! It's very simple.

I've had this discussion many, many times over and I'll say what I always do to those that belly ache about how Evander should not still be in the sport. Your feelings of disgust/anger...whatever....are displaced. You should be angry that the rest of the division did not FORCE him out. Evander Holyfield...Oliver McCall, hell even Bert Cooper...these guys are only here due to the fact that the division and it's current fighters SUCK SO MUCH ASS that they don't HAVE to exit the game.

Now...I love Evander..but I will not be buying this PPV nor will I be paying to see him beat up Nelison. I have no idea what promotion he is under...but this is a prime example of how you match an old fighter.

They did this with Evander a few years back and he got two title shots out of it....now no matter if you think that's a good thing or not....that's a different dicussion...but I'm looking at it from the match making stand point....they are doing the man right.

Had dumbass Shelly Finkle and his crew matched the old Tyson the same way a few years back...we may have had a few more nice Tyson KOs to look back on.

This promotion that has Evander now...getting him wins over Botha, Williams and Neilson...that is excellent matchmaking with an older fighter...his name does the rest. AND...as sad as it is to say...those 3 wins in this current HW division is MUCH MORE than most of the top ten has done in months!



The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Dec 27 2010, 11:27 AM) *
Holyfield is still fighting because the division is so terrible that even at his advanced age he can still compete with the majority of the HW division.

SHAME ON YOU ALL that rip on the guy for taking what he clearly can STILL get. Just because the man is ancient and old does and should not discount what all he has given to the sport.

You act as if it is his FAULT that he still gets offers from promoters. I'll present the question this way....if you were nearly 50 years of age...still half ass competitive and not getting KO'd everytime you stepped in the ring....would you still not try to make some bucks??

I know I would!

AND...at the end of the day...what does any of this hurt? Holy/Williams....does it really have any adverse affect on the division? If you don't want to see it...don't buy it! It's very simple.

I've had this discussion many, many times over and I'll say what I always do to those that belly ache about how Evander should not still be in the sport. Your feelings of disgust/anger...whatever....are displaced. You should be angry that the rest of the division did not FORCE him out. Evander Holyfield...Oliver McCall, hell even Bert Cooper...these guys are only here due to the fact that the division and it's current fighters SUCK SO MUCH ASS that they don't HAVE to exit the game.

Now...I love Evander..but I will not be buying this PPV nor will I be paying to see him beat up Nelison. I have no idea what promotion he is under...but this is a prime example of how you match an old fighter.

They did this with Evander a few years back and he got two title shots out of it....now no matter if you think that's a good thing or not....that's a different dicussion...but I'm looking at it from the match making stand point....they are doing the man right.

Had dumbass Shelly Finkle and his crew matched the old Tyson the same way a few years back...we may have had a few more nice Tyson KOs to look back on.

This promotion that has Evander now...getting him wins over Botha, Williams and Neilson...that is excellent matchmaking with an older fighter...his name does the rest. AND...as sad as it is to say...those 3 wins in this current HW division is MUCH MORE than most of the top ten has done in months!


Wow, is Smokin Bert Cooper still fighting?!?!? Last time I saw him he sounded almost as bad as Meldrick Taylor. Shame that someone lets him out of the house...
BGv2.0
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Dec 27 2010, 11:42 AM) *
Wow, is Smokin Bert Cooper still fighting?!?!? Last time I saw him he sounded almost as bad as Meldrick Taylor. Shame that someone lets him out of the house...


YEAH...I about fell out of my chair when I saw that the other day. AND...it gets better....HE ACTUALLY WON VIA KO!!!

The guy was a nobody...but he was 300lbs, 6'3 and 27 yo and Smokin Bert STILL got him out of there! lol
Lil-lightsout
I personally could care less if Olyfield still fights. It's his choice and the division does suck, plus he gets in great shape for his age.

But regardless he still is delusional the way he speaks. And he does have a lot of kids out of wedlock and I would guess he could use the money.

Again it's his life but with all the shots this dude has taken over the years, it's probably not the safest thing for him to still be doing.

Plus who wants him to watch him against Williams? Maybe him and Cooper can have their long awaited rematch? laugh.gif Their first fight was awesome though, gots the chills when Evander was coming to the ring while the crowd was chanting.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Dec 27 2010, 04:00 AM) *
A few things jluv.

1- I give you some damn props because for quite some time you are always purchasing PPV fights, seems like all of them, lol.

2-I have not seen Wlad's chin touched in a while. Only thing of recent touching his chin is Hayden's ...

3- Holyfield got zero shot against Wlad. Klit could be banging HP in the dressing room minutes before entering the ring and still easily dissect the old man. Shit, she could be blowing him between rounds and he still would have zero problems with Evander.

4-Holyfield probably needs money from all his bastard kids. Plus he is delusional.


lil lights... did you read anywhere where i said holyfield had a shot?... lol... what i said is that he would get busted up but go down fighting unlike these other lames wlads been fighting... holyfield would make the fight fun for how ever long it last... personally i wouldnt mind seeing the fight made... it would do 2 things... bring some needed interest back to the division cuzz the non boxing public would asume its the same old holyfield and it would probably do pretty good if they ppviewed it... and 2... holyfield would realize for sure his time is up after the loss and get out.. i doubt other than a bruising wlad hurts him too bad... ill say this... holyfield would do better than ray austin... lol... truth is who out there is skilled enough to beat him other than a few european fighters than might have an outside shot of beating him?... my vote is give holyfield his shot and usher him off to the rocking chair... he can do know worse than the rest... valuev was suppose to kill holyfield that night they fought and the old man wound up getting robbed... just saying... had they fought anywhere else holyfield would have had another strap around his waist that night... you can almost argue he earned the right to get knocked out off that fight alone...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Dec 28 2010, 06:15 PM) *
lil lights... did you read anywhere where i said holyfield had a shot?... lol... what i said is that he would get busted up but go down fighting unlike these other lames wlads been fighting... holyfield would make the fight fun for how ever long it last... personally i wouldnt mind seeing the fight made... it would do 2 things... bring some needed interest back to the division cuzz the non boxing public would asume its the same old holyfield and it would probably do pretty good if they ppviewed it... and 2... holyfield would realize for sure his time is up after the loss and get out.. i doubt other than a bruising wlad hurts him too bad... ill say this... holyfield would do better than ray austin... lol... truth is who out there is skilled enough to beat him other than a few european fighters than might have an outside shot of beating him?... my vote is give holyfield his shot and usher him off to the rocking chair... he can do know worse than the rest... valuev was suppose to kill holyfield that night they fought and the old man wound up getting robbed... just saying... had they fought anywhere else holyfield would have had another strap around his waist that night... you can almost argue he earned the right to get knocked out off that fight alone...


LOL!!!

OH man Jbug...you really need to reread your first post on this. You wrote "call me crazy but id actually give him an outside shot vs Wlad"! laugh.gif


Also man... Valuev was not supposed to kill Holyfield. Anyone with a brain knew Valuev is straight up garbage, not saying Evander was going to win, but for anyone to think Valuev would kill Evander is a stretch.

You crack me up man.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Dec 28 2010, 05:52 PM) *
LOL!!!

OH man Jbug...you really need to reread your first post on this. You wrote "call me crazy but id actually give him an outside shot vs Wlad"! laugh.gif


Also man... Valuev was not supposed to kill Holyfield. Anyone with a brain knew Valuev is straight up garbage, not saying Evander was going to win, but for anyone to think Valuev would kill Evander is a stretch.

You crack me up man.


i read that first post of mine.... in order to win you have to be willing to at least try.... thats holyfields outside shot... if he trys you never know... i doubt hes punching like feathers and i would say he is a t least a better fighter now than sanders was when he knocked out wlad.... thats my perspective... now with that said im not picking him to win but i know id be watching a fight from a faded fighter thats gonna give it what he's got take his chances and let what happens happens... thats an outside shot at least to me.... am i wrong?... lol... my point is you have to give yourself a chance to win to be able to.... the guys the klits have been fighting dont feel they can win going in because they know they are inferior... holyfield at least wont feel inferior to either one... and yes, he'll lose, but he will go out with heart... he will throw what ever heat he's got... thats his outside chance... i cant say he steps in the ring and gets ko'd first round without any resistance... cuzz i dont feel that way...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Dec 28 2010, 08:55 PM) *
i read that first post of mine.... in order to win you have to be willing to at least try.... thats holyfields outside shot... if he trys you never know... i doubt hes punching like feathers and i would say he is a t least a better fighter now than sanders was when he knocked out wlad.... thats my perspective... now with that said im not picking him to win but i know id be watching a fight from a faded fighter thats gonna give it what he's got take his chances and let what happens happens... thats an outside shot at least to me.... am i wrong?... lol... my point is you have to give yourself a chance to win to be able to.... the guys the klits have been fighting dont feel they can win going in because they know they are inferior... holyfield at least wont feel inferior to either one... and yes, he'll lose, but he will go out with heart... he will throw what ever heat he's got... thats his outside chance... i cant say he steps in the ring and gets ko'd first round without any resistance... cuzz i dont feel that way...


I don't know man... JT gave Holyfield a beating by outboxing him. That was like 7-8 years ago! Klit would murder this Evander now, though I agree with you at least Evander would try.

Disagree with you on the Sanders comparison also. What Sanders had that night was a lefty stance, pretty fast hands, AND some serious power. Holyfield got none of that.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Dec 28 2010, 10:22 PM) *
I don't know man... JT gave Holyfield a beating by outboxing him. That was like 7-8 years ago! Klit would murder this Evander now, though I agree with you at least Evander would try.

Disagree with you on the Sanders comparison also. What Sanders had that night was a lefty stance, pretty fast hands, AND some serious power. Holyfield got none of that.


JT beat Holy that night with an impressive body attack followed with combos....something neither Klit would ever do. They would do the same old thing we have seen time after time....the left jab to the head followed by the occasional right. Nothing new, nothing we have not seen before....

I myself do not feel that it's the 100% massacre you and many others seem to think it would be.

Do I pick Evander to win....no....of course not. BUT I do not think it's a lamb being led to slaughter the way many seem to think. I get Jluv's point and agree 100%.....Evander's pure belief in himself and willingness to try already would give him a better chance for an upset than most of the crap we have seen climb through the ropes with the Klits in the last few years.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Dec 28 2010, 08:22 PM) *
I don't know man... JT gave Holyfield a beating by outboxing him. That was like 7-8 years ago! Klit would murder this Evander now, though I agree with you at least Evander would try.

Disagree with you on the Sanders comparison also. What Sanders had that night was a lefty stance, pretty fast hands, AND some serious power. Holyfield got none of that.

well bg beat me to that post but even at this stage.... holyfield, for whats out there, remains one of the better heavy weights in the division... i hate to be able to say that but it is what it is...
BrutalBodyShots
OK, so back to my post topic...

It seems that most in this thread are of the opinion that Holyfield is actually a pretty good heavyweight today considering the division sucks. Many believe he would give a Klitschko a better fight than most other heavyweights out there.

So, that said... why is he wasting his time with the Williams' and Nielsen's of the world? Why go from fighting top 10-20 heavyweights to guys that aren't even ranked?

Seems like a step in the wrong direction. Holyfield last I heard still has the dream of becoming the "undisputed heavyweight champ of the world" and to get there he needs to fight belt holders, or fight fights that will line him up with shots at belt holders. If he were just fighting to fight, and had no goal than I'd say the guys he's taking on now are acceptable. This to my knowledge is not the case though.

JLUVBABY
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 30 2010, 12:47 AM) *
OK, so back to my post topic...

It seems that most in this thread are of the opinion that Holyfield is actually a pretty good heavyweight today considering the division sucks. Many believe he would give a Klitschko a better fight than most other heavyweights out there.

So, that said... why is he wasting his time with the Williams' and Nielsen's of the world? Why go from fighting top 10-20 heavyweights to guys that aren't even ranked?

Seems like a step in the wrong direction. Holyfield last I heard still has the dream of becoming the "undisputed heavyweight champ of the world" and to get there he needs to fight belt holders, or fight fights that will line him up with shots at belt holders. If he were just fighting to fight, and had no goal than I'd say the guys he's taking on now are acceptable. This to my knowledge is not the case though.


if im not mistaken the klits have already said they wont fight him which to me financially makes no sense... his name in a heavyweight championship fight is bigger than either klit fighting haye, imo... people would watch that...
BGv2.0
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 30 2010, 01:47 AM) *
OK, so back to my post topic...

It seems that most in this thread are of the opinion that Holyfield is actually a pretty good heavyweight today considering the division sucks. Many believe he would give a Klitschko a better fight than most other heavyweights out there.

So, that said... why is he wasting his time with the Williams' and Nielsen's of the world? Why go from fighting top 10-20 heavyweights to guys that aren't even ranked?

Seems like a step in the wrong direction. Holyfield last I heard still has the dream of becoming the "undisputed heavyweight champ of the world" and to get there he needs to fight belt holders, or fight fights that will line him up with shots at belt holders. If he were just fighting to fight, and had no goal than I'd say the guys he's taking on now are acceptable. This to my knowledge is not the case though.


But see you are thinking as if Holy is some guy that needs to earn his shot....you are forgetting that with a guy like Holyfield his name does most of the work. I'm not saying he should be above having to work up the ranks...in a perfect world it would not work like that...but in reality...if you have established yourself your name will do much of the work for you.

As a promoter...why risk putting your older fighter in with the like of any of the decent (and I use that loosely) top ten...such as an Ademak or even Arreola..when you can feed him the likes of Williams and Neilson and STILL make money and eventually get a shot with maybe 4 fights or so.

From a purely matchmaking standpoint...it's the smart thing to do with an old fighter. With a guy like Holyfield you set him up with what should be easy fights and then get him the one shot that could end up with the loss...the championship fight.

You don't do like Shelly Finkle and his people and set up your aging fighter with giants, knowing full well that taller guys gave him an issue when he was young...why in the would would you serve them up now as he is getting older.

Although I got the Lewis matchup due to the $$$...I NEVER understood putting him in with Williams and McBride...that was so damn dumb.

I've always said it...with these old guys...matchmaking is everything and if you do it smart...you can and will get them that big money fight.

A few years back when Holy got his TWO shots it was built off of 4 fights....Bates, Fres, Maddalone and Savarese. Not exactly a spectacular list, the only real threat of the bunch being Fres...but it got the shots with a minimum of risk. It put Holyfield back in the public's mind and his name did the rest....it did not matter that his reflexes were shot...that he was old as hell...

NOW...that was 3-4 years ago...there is even LESS to pick from now than there was then. The Botha fight got him back in the news again....this tune up with Williams will do the same...then it's off to Denmark to take on Neilson....I don't think it's coincidence that they have chosen a fighter that will generate news in Europe either.

Botha, Williams and Neilson with maybe one extra thrown in for good measure should get him right back in the mix. AND...if you just had to toss in a top ten guy for good measure...even at his age, I think there are a couple that Holy could get a win over...say Peter or an outside 10 guy like Gomez.

I myself think it's very smart.

BrutalBodyShots
There's the other side of that coin though BG...

If Holyfield gets a shot by beating a few scrubs, do you really think that's going to prepare him for such a title shot? He's going to be more prepared fighting top 20 guys first if he's going to step in with belt holder than if he fights top 100 guys. He's got to take at least some MODERATE risk fighting B level competition first, or he'll just get blown out when he gets in there with a top guy - then it's back to top 100 guys again for several years.

The guy is going to be 50 by then. He only has so many more runs left. I happen to think this is likely his last, so he should be best prepared for it.

BGv2.0
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 30 2010, 06:00 PM) *
There's the other side of that coin though BG...

If Holyfield gets a shot by beating a few scrubs, do you really think that's going to prepare him for such a title shot? He's going to be more prepared fighting top 20 guys first if he's going to step in with belt holder than if he fights top 100 guys. He's got to take at least some MODERATE risk fighting B level competition first, or he'll just get blown out when he gets in there with a top guy - then it's back to top 100 guys again for several years.

The guy is going to be 50 by then. He only has so many more runs left. I happen to think this is likely his last, so he should be best prepared for it.


Well...I mean that makes sense with a younger guy coming up....but with a guy this old...I really don't think he gets much out of fighting a higher risk guy than the likes of which he is being set up with. He's pretty much seen it all and done it all...it becomes more an issue of simply getting him the shot and hoping a miracle takes place.

I myself don't think Holy gets "blown out" by anybody....he most likely loses a UD to just about anybody...I'd even say possibly the Klits. Although if you pressed me to pick fighters that would KO him...I'd pick them to do it..not much else.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Dec 30 2010, 05:55 PM) *
Well...I mean that makes sense with a younger guy coming up....but with a guy this old...I really don't think he gets much out of fighting a higher risk guy than the likes of which he is being set up with. He's pretty much seen it all and done it all...it becomes more an issue of simply getting him the shot and hoping a miracle takes place.


I'm not suggesting that the old dog is going to learn any "new tricks" at this stage by fighting better fighters prior to a title shot. What I AM suggesting is that better fighters will keep him sharper going into a potential title fight.

It's like any sport, or activity really. If you play with the best, you perform at your best. If you play with C level guys while you look good against them you subconsciously aren't performing at your best.

I used to shoot pool in a league, after many years of shooting prior on my own. In league play I was matched with great opponents that really made me work for the win. Those were my best days. After leaving the league and shooting casually with friends I used to mop the floor with them... but half of these guys could barely hold a cue. Now when I play someone good I lose more often than I win. Not because I ever stopped playing, because I didn't, but because I dropped my level of competition a few years back. It's just the way it goes.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 31 2010, 10:22 AM) *
I'm not suggesting that the old dog is going to learn any "new tricks" at this stage by fighting better fighters prior to a title shot. What I AM suggesting is that better fighters will keep him sharper going into a potential title fight.

It's like any sport, or activity really. If you play with the best, you perform at your best. If you play with C level guys while you look good against them you subconsciously aren't performing at your best.


But at nearly 50....is staying sharp really part of it? I just think it's sheer age that is not going to allow you to ever to the point you were ever at....so I can't see taking the risk with the better comp when the ultimate goal will still be achieved with the lower level comp.

I mean when Holy steps in the ring with either Klit I really don't think who he fought before will make a real difference.

I do totally get where you are coming from but I just don't think with a guy this old it's the proper way to go.
BrutalBodyShots
All good, we just have different views on it. Obviously Holyfield and his people agree with your view, not mine or he'd be fighting better guys smile.gif
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 31 2010, 03:54 PM) *
All good, we just have different views on it. Obviously Holyfield and his people agree with your view, not mine or he'd be fighting better guys smile.gif


i understand your logic of thinking and if holyfield was younger you'd be dead on the money.... his best shot at 50 years old is to fight the sherman williams and the neilsons and rise in the rankings that way... holyfield is a pro with more experience than any other fighter in the heavyweight division... like i said in an earlier post the klits from my understanding have said they wont fight him.. but if he can find himself ranked number 1 rather avoid losing the belt maybe they'd have too... rather he fights contenders or bums if he makes it that far we know he'll get beat... only difference in the way he loses and the rest have lost is he'll go out trying... thing is i wont be surprised if he got beat by one of these c level fighters he has lined up... the age has to catch up to him at some point to where he cant even beat those guys...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 1 2011, 02:15 PM) *
I honestly believe that The Ghost of Holyfield wants to literally go out on his shield.

at least hes willin... lol... thats more than what most of the others have done... only ones in my opinion that really tried agaisnt them is thompson and arreola...
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 1 2011, 06:22 PM) *
at least hes willin... lol... thats more than what most of the others have done... only ones in my opinion that really tried agaisnt them is thompson and arreola...

Come on man, The Ghost of Holyfield got his ass kicked by The Burger King like 100 years ago. They shoot horses, don't they?
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