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ViperSniper
I've seen times where a particular fighter has the mental edge over his opponent but ends up loosing the fight. I don't just mean loud mouths or cocky fighters who ended up loosing the fights either! Which fights did you feel a particular fighter showed doubt/fear leading upto the fight but ended up winning? (I understand there may be mixed opinions on some examples as you can't always see or measure fear/doubt).


Foreman-Fraizer
George Foreman has said he had never feared a man in his entire life other than Smokin Joe and that he was petrified leading upto the fight. Well....we all know how that turned out!

De La Hoya-Mayorga
I don't think Oscar ever doubted the skills he had to win, but I do feel Mayorga shook him up and got to him before the fight yet De La Hoya really put it on him.

Calzaghe-Hopkins
Leading upto the fight I felt Hopkins got to Joe with the remarks and overall had the Welshman slightly on edge, yet ended up winning.

Hopkins-Jones II
Despite the circumstances, I felt Hopkins was still extremely weary of their 1st fight and thought leading upto the fight Jones had the slight mental edge despite being past it, yet Hopkins got the win.


Any other examples yous can come up with?


Lil-lightsout
Wlad Klit-Peter I

Wlad obviously was a nervous mental wreck going against the dangerous puncher in Peter. Wlad was dropped many times in previous fights and was even dropped three times against Peter, AND yet he still won. So even though Wlad had little confidence going into this fight, he still managed a win.

This the only one I can think of right now, I will think of more later.


On a side note, you are a fine poster. I enjoy reading your posts man. You write some pretty thorough stuff to back up your thoughts on so many occasions.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 5 2011, 10:21 PM) *
I don't know (or care) what he says, you know Buster Douglas was scared shitless before his fight with Tyson. Only natural.



Damn... That's a great example man!

I remember watching that fight as a senior in high school. What were you doing Beardo? Did you watch that live? That shit was unreal. And remember the Chavez-Taylor fight the following month? Also crazy amazing fight.

Man I got a shitty short term memory, but I am pretty good at dates with fights for the most part with my long term memory. I remember so many of the big fights years and even sometimes the months(even 20 years ago). Wonder if anyone else is like this.

Toney-Jones. Nov 94
Chavez-Taylor March 90
Tyson-Douglas Feb 90
Brown-Mcgirt Nov 91
Bowe- Holyfield 92
Chavez-Whitaker 93
Lewis-Golota Oct 97

I could go on and on. Is this normal?
gravytrain
you could very well be the Rain Man of boxing.
Fitz
Nice thread.

Nice skills LL, I am similar. I may remember some fights, but haven't been following the sport as long as you, but I know what you are talking about. I have a good long term memory as well. I am sometimes good at knowing a song (obviously I have to like it and know it for me to care, lol) and what year it was as well. Don't know about you, but I think people with good long term memory usually associate a song, fight or something with another memory. I would imagine you associate fights with a time, place or a time you watched it with someone. Sorry to derail, lol.

But nice thread again, I will see if I can come up with any. Also agreed on Hopkins-Jones II surprisingly. Hopkins I felt was nervous and cautious (as funny as it sounds against this Jones). I wouldn't say scared, but wasn't the typical Hopkins, and it showed in that fight. I have said that I felt Hopkins was a little tentative in that fight. He didn't take risks, and just wanted to make sure he wouldn't lose the fight, even if it meant to fight the way he did.

I could be wrong, as I can't have a clear picture of it, but I think Judah may have had the mental edge over Tszyu at the time. I can't recall well if Tszyu did have a lot (or if any fear). But I know leading up to the fight, I remember Judah looking to have that edge.
If anybody remembers the lead up to this well, let me know if this is a good example or not.
ViperSniper
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 6 2011, 03:21 AM) *
Wlad Klit-Peter I

Wlad obviously was a nervous mental wreck going against the dangerous puncher in Peter. Wlad was dropped many times in previous fights and was even dropped three times against Peter, AND yet he still won. So even though Wlad had little confidence going into this fight, he still managed a win.

This the only one I can think of right now, I will think of more later.


On a side note, you are a fine poster. I enjoy reading your posts man. You write some pretty thorough stuff to back up your thoughts on so many occasions.


Nice example!

I have my days where I can't put the right words together to make a point so I fuck it or sometimes I may over explain things where my point gets lost or weakened laugh.gif
Your a poster who knows his shit..therefore I also enjoy reading your posts.. the fact you've had boxing experience yourself would only strengthen your knowledge of the sport.So thanks for the words man drinks.gif

QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 6 2011, 05:59 AM) *
Nice thread.

Nice skills LL, I am similar. I may remember some fights, but haven't been following the sport as long as you, but I know what you are talking about. I have a good long term memory as well. I am sometimes good at knowing a song (obviously I have to like it and know it for me to care, lol) and what year it was as well. Don't know about you, but I think people with good long term memory usually associate a song, fight or something with another memory. I would imagine you associate fights with a time, place or a time you watched it with someone. Sorry to derail, lol.

But nice thread again, I will see if I can come up with any. Also agreed on Hopkins-Jones II surprisingly. Hopkins I felt was nervous and cautious (as funny as it sounds against this Jones). I wouldn't say scared, but wasn't the typical Hopkins, and it showed in that fight. I have said that I felt Hopkins was a little tentative in that fight. He didn't take risks, and just wanted to make sure he wouldn't lose the fight, even if it meant to fight the way he did.

I could be wrong, as I can't have a clear picture of it, but I think Judah may have had the mental edge over Tszyu at the time. I can't recall well if Tszyu did have a lot (or if any fear). But I know leading up to the fight, I remember Judah looking to have that edge.
If anybody remembers the lead up to this well, let me know if this is a good example or not.


clapping.gif

I'm not gonna lie..I'm quite impressed with your honest opinion towards Hopkins-Jones II laugh.gif I also agree that it really did show big time in the fight for me with the manner he fought in.


How bout Mayweather-Mosley?
Mayweather never came across like he really wanted the fight & didn't look so fresh standing that close to Mosley after the Marquez fight. The fight was only made by accident/chances that forced Mayweather to be obligated to take the fight as he was eventually cornered. Turns out a lot of us had more faith in Mayweather than himself laugh.gif
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 6 2011, 04:59 PM) *
I could be wrong, as I can't have a clear picture of it, but I think Judah may have had the mental edge over Tszyu at the time. I can't recall well if Tszyu did have a lot (or if any fear). But I know leading up to the fight, I remember Judah looking to have that edge.
If anybody remembers the lead up to this well, let me know if this is a good example or not.


Nah Tszyu always had the mental edge. Judah was posturing as usual but Tszyu won that fight when he said "being a father is even better than being a world champion" to Judah knowing he had just had his daughter. Zab had no comeback to that & it was game over then.

IMO it is a poor example as I have never seen Tszyu look scared before a fight. Deadpan & focused yes but not scared.

A great example is Holyfield vs Tyson I. Holy was so scared he had all sorts of praying & chanting & shit happening. Turns out he was so scared he whooped his arse all over the shop.

Mundine vs Green is another good example. Sure both were confident & boasting but you could tell Mundine was shitting his pants when the bell rang until he settled down & beat a severely weight drained fighter.
AussieLad
ViperSniper
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jan 6 2011, 08:57 AM) *
Nah Tszyu always had the mental edge. Judah was posturing as usual but Tszyu won that fight when he said "being a father is even better than being a world champion" to Judah knowing he had just had his daughter. Zab had no comeback to that & it was game over then.

IMO it is a poor example as I have never seen Tszyu look scared before a fight. Deadpan & focused yes but not scared.

A great example is Holyfield vs Tyson I. Holy was so scared he had all sorts of praying & chanting & shit happening. Turns out he was so scared he whooped his arse all over the shop.

Mundine vs Green is another good example. Sure both were confident & boasting but you could tell Mundine was shitting his pants when the bell rang until he settled down & beat a severely weight drained fighter.


I never knew that was the case with Tszyu-Judah. Kostya was a champion in & out of the ring and with a comment like that..there not a great deal of things you could say to that. Look how things ended up in the ring, then the mayhem which is a shame because at the time it kinda took away a lil from such a victory.

As for Holyfield, that being the case with all of that leading upto the Tyson fights, it ended up being fitting to who he fought and how things turned out!


That night I was a Mundine fan (lol) which was one of his best performances, but during the fight when Mundine was beating on Green, is when I started becoming a fan of The Machine. He took the beating like a man and turned out he was that much more hungrier than Mundine was for the sport. All of Danny Green's hard work & determination paid off big fuckin time in beating an all time boxing legend..and also Mundine's legend too! laugh.gif
Fitz
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jan 6 2011, 07:57 PM) *
Nah Tszyu always had the mental edge. Judah was posturing as usual but Tszyu won that fight when he said "being a father is even better than being a world champion" to Judah knowing he had just had his daughter. Zab had no comeback to that & it was game over then.

IMO it is a poor example as I have never seen Tszyu look scared before a fight. Deadpan & focused yes but not scared.

A great example is Holyfield vs Tyson I. Holy was so scared he had all sorts of praying & chanting & shit happening. Turns out he was so scared he whooped his arse all over the shop.

Mundine vs Green is another good example. Sure both were confident & boasting but you could tell Mundine was shitting his pants when the bell rang until he settled down & beat a severely weight drained fighter.


Thanks man.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Jan 6 2011, 09:19 PM) *
I never knew that was the case with Tszyu-Judah. Kostya was a champion in & out of the ring and with a comment like that..there not a great deal of things you could say to that. Look how things ended up in the ring, then the mayhem which is a shame because at the time it kinda took away a lil from such a victory.

As for Holyfield, that being the case with all of that leading upto the Tyson fights, it ended up being fitting to who he fought and how things turned out!


That night I was a Mundine fan (lol) which was one of his best performances, but during the fight when Mundine was beating on Green, is when I started becoming a fan of The Machine. He took the beating like a man and turned out he was that much more hungrier than Mundine was for the sport. All of Danny Green's hard work & determination paid off big fuckin time in beating an all time boxing legend..and also Mundine's legend too! laugh.gif


Tszyu said it in his autobiography that with the way Judah was carrying on he knew a comment like that would unsettle him badly. That fight was probably the most confident I have ever been before a fight & laid a big bet on a Tszyu KO3. That was my only bet too so I was gutted when Nady waved it off. Not because Judah should have stopped but because I missed out on a huge payday. I believe there is no way Judah would have seen round 4 as he was mentally gone then & Tszyu would have hunted him down like a wounded animal.


QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Jan 6 2011, 09:19 PM) *
That night I was a Mundine fan (lol) which was one of his best performances, but during the fight when Mundine was beating on Green, is when I started becoming a fan of The Machine. He took the beating like a man and turned out he was that much more hungrier than Mundine was for the sport. All of Danny Green's hard work & determination paid off big fuckin time in beating an all time boxing legend..and also Mundine's legend too! laugh.gif


The fight took too long to happen really. Green was like fucking Skeletor with no body fat at all as he had outgrown 168 by then & only stayed for the money. Mundine whilst somewhat talented has been exposed several times by mediocre fighters as a flashy bullshit artist without any substance. Green at least has only lost two fights bar Mundine & they were to Beyer & one was a sham of a DQ.

I dunno I look at both those guys & then look at guys like Vic & Rocky & they do things the hard way & earned more respect than either Mundine or Green on the world stage. Robbie Peden was another guys who I respected bigtime because he went to the US & fought his way up the rankings rather than win shitty OPBF IBF Interim belt & then get a shot at a title.
ViperSniper
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jan 6 2011, 11:08 AM) *
Tszyu said it in his autobiography that with the way Judah was carrying on he knew a comment like that would unsettle him badly. That fight was probably the most confident I have ever been before a fight & laid a big bet on a Tszyu KO3. That was my only bet too so I was gutted when Nady waved it off. Not because Judah should have stopped but because I missed out on a huge payday. I believe there is no way Judah would have seen round 4 as he was mentally gone then & Tszyu would have hunted him down like a wounded animal.




The fight took too long to happen really. Green was like fucking Skeletor with no body fat at all as he had outgrown 168 by then & only stayed for the money. Mundine whilst somewhat talented has been exposed several times by mediocre fighters as a flashy bullshit artist without any substance. Green at least has only lost two fights bar Mundine & they were to Beyer & one was a sham of a DQ.

I dunno I look at both those guys & then look at guys like Vic & Rocky & they do things the hard way & earned more respect than either Mundine or Green on the world stage. Robbie Peden was another guys who I respected bigtime because he went to the US & fought his way up the rankings rather than win shitty OPBF IBF Interim belt & then get a shot at a title.


Green has at least traveled in the past to America & Germany to fight which is already more than Mundine has ever done..hell he even went over for sparring against Toney laugh.gif As for both gettin more exposure over the Darch n Kats I totally concur. So I don't think Danny Green is much to blame for the exposure as a large part of it gets attached to Mundine. I think it's a damn shame though Mundine lounges back n flaps his gums while he fights bums lol while the smaller guys fight there asses off and still get no where near as close exposure in Australia. It's a damn shame Darch was a p4p undisputed champ, Katsidis just fought an undisputed champ who is one of the best in the world but majority would have been unaware. But you bet your ass people knew when Mundine-Woods was happening laugh.gif

Peden was another world class fighter who was in the ring with the best but never reached that next level.


Most recently leading upto the rematch of Martinez-Williams, I felt Martinez seemed to be buzzin before the fight as Williams looked so damn focused he look like a statue in the final presser staredown. When I saw that I felt Williams had him (along with others unrelated factors) but very unfortunate had no clue what laid ahead. Turns out Martinez was buzzin for a reason only he and his trainer would have known at the time as he executed exactly what he had planned for..

D-MARV
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 5 2011, 10:21 PM) *
I don't know (or care) what he says, you know Buster Douglas was scared shitless before his fight with Tyson. Only natural.

I don't think so... The man had just lost the most important person in his life, He didn't give a fuck... I know the feeling.
Spyder
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 6 2011, 12:59 AM) *
But nice thread again, I will see if I can come up with any. Also agreed on Hopkins-Jones II surprisingly. Hopkins I felt was nervous and cautious (as funny as it sounds against this Jones). I wouldn't say scared, but wasn't the typical Hopkins, and it showed in that fight. I have said that I felt Hopkins was a little tentative in that fight. He didn't take risks, and just wanted to make sure he wouldn't lose the fight, even if it meant to fight the way he did.

You mean, he fought like a BITCH!

It's ok man, you can say it. Admitting that Bernard Hopkins fought like a bitch, is not like drawing a picture of Mohammed.

laugh.gif
Fitz
QUOTE (Spyder @ Jan 7 2011, 02:50 AM) *
You mean, he fought like a BITCH!

It's ok man, you can say it. Admitting that Bernard Hopkins fought like a bitch, is not like drawing a picture of Mohammed.

laugh.gif


Pretty much man, lol. I'm a Bernard fan, but the Jones fight was a very shitty performance, and I think it had everything to do with the psychological edge Jones had over Hopkins with that win he had over him and the dislike they have for each other. I don't think Hopkins was 'scared' of Jones. But that loss I think cut deep more than any loss he had, and the thought of it happening again would spell disaster. He just wanted to make sure he got the win, no matter what the circumstance. Hopkins should have destroyed Jones, but didn't.
I think I edge Hopkins, or I like his career more as a whole, but I think what I learnt that Jones would have Hopkins number in a fight between them in their respective prime. Hopkins still didn't look comfortable against this version of Jones.
So I suppose you wanted me to cut all the bullshit and sugar coating, so I will just say it. He fought like a bitch that night. Very out of character for Hopkins though, lol.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 5 2011, 10:44 PM) *
you could very well be the Rain Man of boxing.

laugh.gif

Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 6 2011, 12:59 AM) *
Nice thread.

Nice skills LL, I am similar. I may remember some fights, but haven't been following the sport as long as you, but I know what you are talking about. I have a good long term memory as well. I am sometimes good at knowing a song (obviously I have to like it and know it for me to care, lol) and what year it was as well. Don't know about you, but I think people with good long term memory usually associate a song, fight or something with another memory. I would imagine you associate fights with a time, place or a time you watched it with someone. Sorry to derail, lol.


Yeah man I totally agree with you. I am like that with songs also, but I am crazy good with movies since the 80's. I also do associate it with other memories too like you said.

Don't apologize about derailing my man.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Jan 6 2011, 03:05 AM) *
Nice example!

I have my days where I can't put the right words together to make a point so I fuck it or sometimes I may over explain things where my point gets lost or weakened laugh.gif
Your a poster who knows his shit..therefore I also enjoy reading your posts.. the fact you've had boxing experience yourself would only strengthen your knowledge of the sport.So thanks for the words man drinks.gif


No problem and thanks. thumbsup_anim.gif


ALSO...Anyone reading this willing to help this nub out? For a bit now I wanna know a quick explanation how do you guys put multiple quotes from different posters in a single reply. Please go easy on me, I am not the best with computers. Thanks.
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 6 2011, 10:47 PM) *
No problem and thanks. thumbsup_anim.gif


ALSO...Anyone reading this willing to help this nub out? For a bit now I wanna know a quick explanation how do you guys put multiple quotes from different posters in a single reply. Please go easy on me, I am not the best with computers. Thanks.



Lloyd Mayflower watches on intently, lying in wait for an answer which he will absorb, then use to create a smartarse, quote-laden post next time, tricking everyone into thinking he knew how to do it all along!
Fitz
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 7 2011, 09:47 AM) *
No problem and thanks. thumbsup_anim.gif


ALSO...Anyone reading this willing to help this nub out? For a bit now I wanna know a quick explanation how do you guys put multiple quotes from different posters in a single reply. Please go easy on me, I am not the best with computers. Thanks.


Just click the 'quote' button underneath the post. It should turn from a '+' to a '-'. You can quote multiple times. Just hit the 'quote' button rather than the 'reply'. Then when you have quoted everything you have wanted, go to the end of the thread and just click 'add reply'. It should quote everyone you wanted to quote.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 7 2011, 01:11 AM) *
I think Holmes had his doubts before steppin in with Cooney, and those doubts were somewhat realized early on. Many considered (and still do) Jerry Cooney a bum. He was not a great fighter but he was a formidable brawler. I would love to see him KO his way through the bumyard of the heavyweight ranks today, on his way to an epic struggle with a Klit or The Nutless Bitch Impersonator. Not saying he'd win, but Cooney would have all three current heavyweight champs shitting bricks before Donnybrooke.

Couldn't stand "the bum" back then, but I'd give my left . . . okay maybe not.


I think Cooney was a victim of circumstance. He was a very good but not great fighter who was the biggest draw around being white with a hell of a punch. Holmes was making chump change until het got a good dance partner in Cooney.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 7 2011, 11:09 AM) *
Just click the 'quote' button underneath the post. It should turn from a '+' to a '-'. You can quote multiple times. Just hit the 'quote' button rather than the 'reply'. Then when you have quoted everything you have wanted, go to the end of the thread and just click 'add reply'. It should quote everyone you wanted to quote.


Motherfucker I used to open a dozen replies & trim them down into one single reply with a lot of cutting & pasting.

Oh well I do seeem to make things harder for myself than I need to.
pesticid
I think Mora was afraid of Forrest and he won the first fight. Ali must've been scared of Big George, I mean who wouldn't be.

PS: I don't think Zaghe was afraid of Hopkins, I think he punked Bhop at the weigh-in.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Although heavily favoured going in I thought Lewis was shitting bricks when he faced Tua.
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (pesticid @ Jan 7 2011, 03:27 AM) *
I think Mora was afraid of Forrest and he won the first fight. Ali must've been scared of Big George, I mean who wouldn't be.

PS: I don't think Zaghe was afraid of Hopkins, I think he punked Bhop at the weigh-in.


He punked BHop at the Hatton Mayweather weigh in. That much is for sure. I actually thought he was more afraid going in against Jones. I think Calzaghe still thought he was facing Superman Roy Jones instead of the version he wiped the ring with. He seemed weary going in to that fight.

Pascal looked scared at the Hopkins weigh in, so I guess we should all tip our hats to him and say well done for manning up and battling out a draw

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
ViperSniper
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Jan 7 2011, 01:54 PM) *
He punked BHop at the Hatton Mayweather weigh in. That much is for sure. I actually thought he was more afraid going in against Jones. I think Calzaghe still thought he was facing Superman Roy Jones instead of the version he wiped the ring with. He seemed weary going in to that fight.

Pascal looked scared at the Hopkins weigh in, so I guess we should all tip our hats to him and say well done for manning up and battling out a draw

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif



Good call. Many already talk about this fight like Hopkins got the W yet neither did lol. The stunt Bernard pulled in the final presser caught Pascal off guard if anything that left him stunned..which ended up getting him pissed! Hopkins no doubt had the big mental edge over Pascal leading into the fight..so credit to Pascal for turning the fight the way it did laugh.gif
gbh32001
Khan is the biggest fighter who overcame fear I guess... thumbsup_anim.gif Look how he boast Maidana never hurt him..
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jan 7 2011, 01:45 AM) *
Although heavily favoured going in I thought Lewis was shitting bricks when he faced Tua.

I agree with you. In fact in the first two rounds I believe it would be only a matter of time before Tua was going to ice LL. I thought I saw a look of uncertainty very early from Lennox. He rebounded nicely and dominated Tua and kind of ruined him after that.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 11 2011, 11:06 PM) *
I agree with you. In fact in the first two rounds I believe it would be only a matter of time before Tua was going to ice LL. I thought I saw a look of uncertainty very early from Lennox. He rebounded nicely and dominated Tua and kind of ruined him after that.


Actually it was Burger King that ruined David Tua. A bit like another fighter we both know.................... laugh.gif

(Fucken Whoppers, why do they have to taste so good?)
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jan 12 2011, 02:50 AM) *
Actually it was Burger King that ruined David Tua. A bit like another fighter we both know.................... laugh.gif

(Fucken Whoppers, why do they have to taste so good?)

fuck.gif

JLUVBABY
you guys have brought up many courages fighters that have come back from the brink of fear to win great matches... but the most under rated fearful fighter of them all just may have been little mac...

Romulus9
Two names came to mind for this thread. I don't know if they fall under fear or doubt or what but they had to overcome the worst circumstance that any fighter can deal with..

Ray Mancini and Gabriel Ruelas.

Both were fighters who only knew how to fight one way. They brawled, they bled, they did whatever they had to do to win or they got busted up trying.

After Mancini/Kim and Ruelas/Garcia, everyone questioned how they would respond. Could either of them fight the same way again, giving that much, knowing what happened before? Mancini answered the question quickly, pummeling Bobby Chacon, then losing two absolute wars with Livingstone Bramble.

Ruelas didn't fare as well immediately. I remember watching his next fight after Garcia, the second fight with Azumah Nelson, who had beaten him via majority decision two years earlier. Gabe had nothing that night. He was just going through the motions and didn't do anything with certainty. I thought his career was over. He had three more fights after that, winning two by decision and one by technical decision, and it was more of the same. Do enough to win, don't take too many risks, don't dole out too much punishment. Then... the Gatti fight. He got drawn into a war and old Gabe was back. He had a war with Troy Dorsey after that as well.

What those guys came back from mentally and emotionally is really incredible, especially to do so the way they did. I'm sure they had plenty of doubts about whether or not they could do it.
ViperSniper
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jan 13 2011, 07:42 AM) *
Two names came to mind for this thread. I don't know if they fall under fear or doubt or what but they had to overcome the worst circumstance that any fighter can deal with..

Ray Mancini and Gabriel Ruelas.

Both were fighters who only knew how to fight one way. They brawled, they bled, they did whatever they had to do to win or they got busted up trying.

After Mancini/Kim and Ruelas/Garcia, everyone questioned how they would respond. Could either of them fight the same way again, giving that much, knowing what happened before? Mancini answered the question quickly, pummeling Bobby Chacon, then losing two absolute wars with Livingstone Bramble.

Ruelas didn't fare as well immediately. I remember watching his next fight after Garcia, the second fight with Azumah Nelson, who had beaten him via majority decision two years earlier. Gabe had nothing that night. He was just going through the motions and didn't do anything with certainty. I thought his career was over. He had three more fights after that, winning two by decision and one by technical decision, and it was more of the same. Do enough to win, don't take too many risks, don't dole out too much punishment. Then... the Gatti fight. He got drawn into a war and old Gabe was back. He had a war with Troy Dorsey after that as well.

What those guys came back from mentally and emotionally is really incredible, especially to do so the way they did. I'm sure they had plenty of doubts about whether or not they could do it.


That reminds me of Ray Robinson's first title defense where he dreamed the night before he had knocked his opponent out with a hook and killed him. He woke up the following day shook up & frightened with what he dreamed did not want to go through with the fight. After being convinced by priests and others that nothing of this sort will happened he agreed to fight and ended up doing the very thing he dreamed of the night before.

That story to me has always fascinated me and now that you mentioned the other two boxers, 'Sugar' Ray showed how strong he came back after such a horrible experience.
Romulus9
QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Jan 13 2011, 04:56 AM) *
That reminds me of Ray Robinson's first title defense where he dreamed the night before he had knocked his opponent out with a hook and killed him. He woke up the following day shook up & frightened with what he dreamed did not want to go through with the fight. After being convinced by priests and others that nothing of this sort will happened he agreed to fight and ended up doing the very thing he dreamed of the night before.

That story to me has always fascinated me and now that you mentioned the other two boxers, 'Sugar' Ray showed how strong he came back after such a horrible experience.



Ray Robinson and Jimmy Doyle. Absolutely tragic. Considering the dream and all that, it's really incredible that he kept going. Great point.
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