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neophyte7
WHAT IS THE CALL HERE... HOPKINS SAYS HE WILL MAKE HISTORY. MAN, HOPKINS TRULY IS ONE OF A KIND. HE REALLY SHOWED THAT OLD HOPKINS DOG GRIT THAT MADE HIM SO DANGEROUS WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER IN THERE AGAINST PASCAL. AFTER BEING DOWN 2x HIS PRIDE WAS ON THE LINE... BH SHOWED THE GREATNESS THAT LIE WITHIN HIM by battering Pascal

Pascal suprised Hopkins with his explosiveness as Hop may have been a little too relaxed and business as usual ... The next time he chops down Pascal who will wear the influences of that last beating Hops laid on that ass. If I am Nazim i send Hops straight at his ass behind the jab and then straight inside to beat up his body... Hop will make history in emphatic fashion
Box in Hand
Pascal's people say they will disregard the WBC and honor the contract to fight Dawson. So Pascal will be stripped of his WBC belt. My question is does the belt go to Hops at that point or does he fight the number 2 guy in the division for the vacant WBC belt? I'd rather Hops Pascal get it on again and know for a fact Hopks avoids the knockdowns and once again beats the hell out Pascal.
Fitz
For me, the thing that should happen is that Pascal-Dawson fight. Hopkins should fight Cloud and then the winners should fight and unify. If not, Hopkins should just wait for the winner of Pascal and Dawson. Yes normally, that would warrant a rematch and I still want to see it. But Dawson was entitled to a rematch now, and that is in a written contract. The contract should be honoured.
I am interested in a Hopkins-Pascal rematch as well, and Hopkins deserves one. He got unlucky, I just think that the contract should be honoured.
ViperSniper
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 8 2011, 05:49 AM) *
For me, the thing that should happen is that Pascal-Dawson fight. Hopkins should fight Cloud and then the winners should fight and unify. If not, Hopkins should just wait for the winner of Pascal and Dawson. Yes normally, that would warrant a rematch and I still want to see it. But Dawson was entitled to a rematch now, and that is in a written contract. The contract should be honoured.
I am interested in a Hopkins-Pascal rematch as well, and Hopkins deserves one. He got unlucky, I just think that the contract should be honoured.


Agree, it's a tough situation but it would be the best outcome for the Light Heavyweight division.

As for the bolded part, that the the very reason I agree with this move as it's also the right thing to do..Dawson shouldn't have to cop the short end of the stick.
neophyte7
Pascal took a mental and physical pounding from BH. If he faces Hops in the next few months he gets pounded again and loses... if he faces dawson he gets pounded by dawson... Hops took something out of that boy... Pavlik was not the same.. Pascal will not be the same (Not that he was all that special anyhow, yet he does have explosive quickness)
Maxy
After the injustice of the first fight you'd assume Hopkins gets the job done this time around but it ain't no given.
neophyte7
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 8 2011, 08:58 AM) *
Maybe, but I think Pascal still has the natural talent and boxing skills to defeat a mid 40s BHop. Is he mentally strong enough to get the job done?

We will see.

As much as we all feel that BHop won that fight, Pascal did not take a serious physical beating.



I disagree... Hops had Pascal holding on for dear life the entire second half of the fight. Pascal took serious body and head shots in steady debilitating fashion. he was battered. Pascal looks to get dazed very easily... he has good recuperation an physical strength though but even against Dawson he was buzzed often
Jack 1000
The WBC voted to have Hopkins-Pascal II next. The winner must fight Dawson with no in-between bout. I don't think this fight warrants an immediate rematch. Many people thought a draw was OK. Maybe a bit of a stretch, but not outrageous. Hopkins has some Emeritus title according to the press release, so the WBC might name him champion if Pascal rematches with Dawson instead.

It could also be that Pascal-Dawson will be for the vacant WBC title. Perhaps the decision could be appealed. Too early to tell what will happen.

Jack
thefloatingmonkey
I think Pascal could take Hopkins if he stayed busy in the fight. He looked older than Hopkins in the fight with his lack of activity. Not sure what the deal with that was.
neophyte7
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 8 2011, 11:06 AM) *
Come on, neo, he was in a championship fight, but he was not battered. It was a close fight. He lost, IMO, but I don't think the physical nature of the fight was as damaging to Pascal as the mental.



Beardo... I looked to me like Hopkins Taylor I -- Taylor took a pounding the last 4 rounds... even looked to the ref multiple times as if he needed help... Pascal was doing the same.
BrutalBodyShots
I think Pascal-Hopkins II would look almost identical to the original, only that Hopkins doesn't get knocked down at all. I think he's a little more cautious in the opening rounds and doesn't get hooked with any of those shots or off balance shit and that he stays on his feet.

That said, Hopkins by comfortable decision due to no 10-8 rounds against him.

PR316
QUOTE (thefloatingmonkey @ Jan 8 2011, 06:34 PM) *
I think Pascal could take Hopkins if he stayed busy in the fight. He looked older than Hopkins in the fight with his lack of activity. Not sure what the deal with that was.


Pascal has always been erratic. He fights in spurts. He's not like Calzaghe or Bute who let their hands go consistently.

Plus those bodyshots he took definitely played a part in him not being so eager to let his hands go. It was clear to see.
neophyte7
I had not seen Hopkins go to body like that in years...
Spyder
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Jan 9 2011, 10:02 AM) *
I think Pascal-Hopkins II would look almost identical to the original, only that Hopkins doesn't get knocked down at all. I think he's a little more cautious in the opening rounds and doesn't get hooked with any of those shots or off balance shit and that he stays on his feet.

That said, Hopkins by comfortable decision due to no 10-8 rounds against him.

If Hopkins starts slower, then he'll be in the same boat as the Taylor fights...too far behind to change the outcome.

Action, reaction. Start fast, risk getting iced. Start slow, risk losing on the cards.

I think it's possible that we'll see a Tarver-Jones 2 remake. Hopkins will come out, feeling like he has something to prove...then 'click'...out go the lights.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (Spyder @ Jan 10 2011, 07:54 AM) *
If Hopkins starts slower, then he'll be in the same boat as the Taylor fights...too far behind to change the outcome.


I said more cautious, not "slower." Cautious as in he now is aware of Pascal's hand speed and ability to catch him off balance and neutralize that in the EARLY rounds this time as he did in the LATE rounds last time. Hopkins didn't lose the late rounds the first time, so fight the opening rounds as he did the later ones.

And another thing, even if Hopkins loses a few early rounds he still owns the fight. He can lose 2 or 3 rounds 10-9, as long as he doesn't get knocked down he won't get "too far behind."

neophyte7
QUOTE (Spyder @ Jan 10 2011, 07:54 AM) *
If Hopkins starts slower, then he'll be in the same boat as the Taylor fights...too far behind to change the outcome.

Action, reaction. Start fast, risk getting iced. Start slow, risk losing on the cards.

I think it's possible that we'll see a Tarver-Jones 2 remake. Hopkins will come out, feeling like he has something to prove...then 'click'...out go the lights.



LMAO... Hopkins has one the best chins all time... after being knocked down he went after Pascal not fearing getting knocked down again... Hopkins is ring genius and he will not make the same mistakes... Pascal snuck in some quick surprising shots. the first shot he spun Hop and hit him in back of the head... the second knockdown was strange and looked like hops was hit in the upper body... Hopkins outworked the youthful fighter in terms of punches.. This may end up looking like Hopkins Mercado II... Pascal is athletic , but his muscle bound frame has him tight and causes him to gas... Hopkins and Nazim are going to bust this guys ass worse this time. Pascal is not skilled... he is athletic, a big difference
JLUVBABY
pascal is in a terrible position and its also the reason why i dont like them damn rematches clauses... to many are built into fights these days... if a guy loses get his ass to the back of the line and give other people a shot... thats my opinion... he beat dawson... that fight really didnt deserve a rematch... hopkins beat pascal... hopkins deserves this rematch... i respect the fact that pascal is honoring the rematch clause for dawson and i dont blame him uzz if he fights hop again any time soon hopkins probably knocks him out... im sure he loses to dawson this time around as well... no way pascal is ready for any top fighter after what he just experienced... matter of fact it was the kind of fight that potentially ruins fighters.. b hop fucked that boy up after that 3rd round and im sure mentally pascall knows he endured something im sure he didnt think could happen to him... he was reduced to being a lower b level rated opponent that night and he knows it...
Spyder
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Jan 10 2011, 04:39 PM) *
I said more cautious, not "slower." Cautious as in he now is aware of Pascal's hand speed and ability to catch him off balance and neutralize that in the EARLY rounds this time as he did in the LATE rounds last time. Hopkins didn't lose the late rounds the first time, so fight the opening rounds as he did the later ones.

And another thing, even if Hopkins loses a few early rounds he still owns the fight. He can lose 2 or 3 rounds 10-9, as long as he doesn't get knocked down he won't get "too far behind."

He didn't fight cautious late in the fight...he took it to him. The difference is that Pascal ran out of gas, and couldn't react as quickly as he did early. Not to mention those body shots added up. That won't be a luxury that Hops will enjoy early.

QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jan 10 2011, 04:55 PM) *
LMAO... Hopkins has one the best chins all time... after being knocked down he went after Pascal not fearing getting knocked down again... Hopkins is ring genius and he will not make the same mistakes... Pascal snuck in some quick surprising shots. the first shot he spun Hop and hit him in back of the head... the second knockdown was strange and looked like hops was hit in the upper body... Hopkins outworked the youthful fighter in terms of punches.. This may end up looking like Hopkins Mercado II... Pascal is athletic , but his muscle bound frame has him tight and causes him to gas... Hopkins and Nazim are going to bust this guys ass worse this time. Pascal is not skilled... he is athletic, a big difference

Nobody is invincible. If Pascal hits Hopkins right, he'll fall down again.
JD
I was wrong the first time around as I picked a clear Pascal decision - but at the same time, it was alarming to see how much trouble Hopkins had with his athleticism early.

It was a strange fight and Pascal seemed to get too comfortable and gave Hopkins time to make adjustments, which in turn allowed him to go to the body. Hopkins should not come out guns blazing, but at the same time, if he falls into a hole again it will be hard to get out. I don't see a simple Hopkins win in the rematch at all like so many are calling here.
Method
Hopkins needs to tighten up a little bit. He proved he could take it to to the younger guy, but he needs to tighten up on his D a bit. I think he can take the dec, but he doesn't need to be suffering flash kd's (or kd's of any sort). He also doesnt neeed to be so reckless like he was in the 12th round. That was some sloppy stuff.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (JD @ Jan 11 2011, 08:07 AM) *
I was wrong the first time around as I picked a clear Pascal decision - but at the same time, it was alarming to see how much trouble Hopkins had with his athleticism early.

It was a strange fight and Pascal seemed to get too comfortable and gave Hopkins time to make adjustments, which in turn allowed him to go to the body. Hopkins should not come out guns blazing, but at the same time, if he falls into a hole again it will be hard to get out. I don't see a simple Hopkins win in the rematch at all like so many are calling here.


thing is hopkins needed to fight pascal next... had he, for him to come out guns blazing, in my opinion, to reestablish the doominance he had over pascal for the most part of the last fight would be just the thing for him to do to bring pascal right back to the mental place he was at in the last fight... but... pascal is fighting a very determined dawson next that last i heard him talking seems pretty obsessed with this rematch... i see a very mind fucked pascal showing up for dawson and i see him getting beat up very soundly... hopkins probably took that guys fighting spirit in that fight... if you notice we havent heard a sound from him since the fight... usually he is a very vocal fighter but right now at least he is being very quiet... that whippin is gonna be with him for a while...
JD
I think it's a little early to say how it will impact him...you didn't hear a word from Pascal after the Froch fight either.

With that said, don't be so sure Dawson is next, because if HBO is not willing to pony up for it (and they may not be), the fight will probably not end up happening because both guys will not be able to get paid.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (JD @ Jan 11 2011, 11:40 AM) *
I think it's a little early to say how it will impact him...you didn't hear a word from Pascal after the Froch fight either.

With that said, don't be so sure Dawson is next, because if HBO is not willing to pony up for it (and they may not be), the fight will probably not end up happening because both guys will not be able to get paid.


well see but in my opinion pascal was supposed this improved fighter since the froch defeat and the knock downs aside he got handled that night... he was handled like an a fighter should treat a b fighter it didnt look like an off night from a good fighter... i could be wrong but the sport is as much psychological as it is physical... hop turned the page on that dude and treated him like the prime middleweight hopkins treated most of his 20 defenses.. thats got to linger in the mind of a fighter that talked the game he did leading up to the fight... we shall see...
JD
Maybe...but it's not like he took some savage beating from pillar to post, in fact, he had a lot of success early and dropped a guy twice that hadn't been dropped in 16 years, and I am sure that is something that he will focus on as well. This wasn't like the Pavlik fight at all where there was not so much as a competitive 15 second interval. Moreover, I didn't hear anyone saying he improved from the Froch fight - I mean, he is basically the same fighter.

In the end, this is all conjecture until we see what happens next time Pascal steps in the ring whether it be against Hopkins...Dawson...or someone else.
lloyd mayflower
There is another option thats not been considered here. What about the possibility that putting up that spirited performance was BHops last stand. Kinda like when a shitty little team draws a big huge team in the cup, sometimes things can just line up right for them and they sneak a goal, maybe get a draw. But then when they go back for a second bite at the cherry they get their shit pushed in like they maybe should have in the first. People are going on like BHop only needs to land the rematch and the belts are his. He still needs to go in there and win 12 rounds of boxing against a young athletic champion who has had a chance to see what Bernard is about and is getting a chance to prove the first fight was a freak of nature.
D-MARV
Pascal-Dawson should be next! Hopkins just has to wait... Dawson had a rematch clause.
neophyte7
[quote name='JD' date='Jan 11 2011, 09:07 AM' post='510246']
I was wrong the first time around as I picked a clear Pascal decision - but at the same time, it was alarming to see how much trouble Hopkins had with his athleticism early.


Hopkins is 46... what was more alarming to Pascal and his crew was how fast Hopkins was able to adjust and turn the tide... Ordinary fighters just don't do that. Hopkins tightened his D after the KD's. Hops was loading up on that left hook ... I see HOP using this punch surprising PASCAL Hops on the other hand will not be surprised. Pascal is athletic but his muscle bound frame leaves him tight and winded. He is limited skill wise. Even late his explosive
Quickness was no use to him.

to the poster who said if Pascal hits Hopkins right again he falls... LOL Hops will not be as relaxed... there will be no flash Kd's this time around. Hops has to stay behind the jab as Pascal is explosive early after a few rounds he will start to gas and BHOP will start breaking him. Pascal is fucked. He has HOPS waiting to make history and Dawson waiting to avenge his loss..
Fitz
QUOTE (JD @ Jan 12 2011, 01:07 AM) *
I was wrong the first time around as I picked a clear Pascal decision - but at the same time, it was alarming to see how much trouble Hopkins had with his athleticism early.

It was a strange fight and Pascal seemed to get too comfortable and gave Hopkins time to make adjustments, which in turn allowed him to go to the body. Hopkins should not come out guns blazing, but at the same time, if he falls into a hole again it will be hard to get out. I don't see a simple Hopkins win in the rematch at all like so many are calling here.


I saw exactly what you saw early in the fight JD. Pascal was landing clean on Hopkins, and the speed and athleticism troubled him. He was landing with lead left hooks at times. I will be honest, early in the fight, it didn't look like it was going to end well for Hopkins. Credit to him, he turned it around drastically.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (Spyder @ Jan 11 2011, 08:50 AM) *
He didn't fight cautious late in the fight...he took it to him. The difference is that Pascal ran out of gas, and couldn't react as quickly as he did early. Not to mention those body shots added up. That won't be a luxury that Hops will enjoy early.

Nobody is invincible. If Pascal hits Hopkins right, he'll fall down again.


I never suggested that he fought cautious late in the fight. I said he will fight more cautious in the opening rounds of a potential rematch as to ensure he doesn't get knocked down and lose any unnecessary points.

I also didn't suggest Hopkins is invincible... but if anyone looked vulnerable in the fight (aside from the knockdowns) clearly it was Pascal, not Hopkins.
neophyte7
Hopkins approached Pascal defensively like he does everyone else. I think he underrated Pascal's quickness, yet once Hop settled in.. he was able to make Pascal miss quite often ... at 46 Hopkins is still damned good defensively
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Jan 11 2011, 12:05 PM) *
There is another option thats not been considered here. What about the possibility that putting up that spirited performance was BHops last stand. Kinda like when a shitty little team draws a big huge team in the cup, sometimes things can just line up right for them and they sneak a goal, maybe get a draw. But then when they go back for a second bite at the cherry they get their shit pushed in like they maybe should have in the first. People are going on like BHop only needs to land the rematch and the belts are his. He still needs to go in there and win 12 rounds of boxing against a young athletic champion who has had a chance to see what Bernard is about and is getting a chance to prove the first fight was a freak of nature.


this could be true but that comparison would be like buster douglas's conquest of tyson... b hop is a legit fighter at 46... now with that being said how many more times can he go to the well at 46?... in my opinion time is his only enemy at this point... at 46 he is arguably a top 5 p4pder... when you look at what he did in that fight rather the first kd was legit or not he was down by 5 after 3 rounds... his age aside what he managed to do to pascal would have been a tremendous feet for a young primed 20 sumthin year older.. honestly i cant see a tavoris cloud coming back from that type of start... and he's one of the belt holders... just saying no matter how you slice it hopkins put up a performance that parallels that of the archie moores times.. ive always been a fan and have watched him since very early in his career... but never would i have thought he would be fighting on this level this late in his boxing life... i can remember when 30 was considered old for a fighter....lol..
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 11 2011, 09:13 PM) *
i can remember when 30 was considered old for a fighter....lol..


All depends on the fighter, everyone is different. Some guys lose it in their late 20's, 30's, or 40's. I would say generally in the 30's though.

A lot has to do with the fighter's mentality and how they take care of their body through the years.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 11 2011, 11:45 PM) *
. . . and their genes.


I have no clue how a fighter's pants have anything to do with this? LOL.
Fitz
Anyway you slice it, Hopkins is AT LEAST fighting about a decade past a 'average' use by date. I would say most at about 35 is considered old, but like said. It can be late 20's or even late 30's. But Hopkins is definitely fighting well past a use by date, and I would say a decade to be safe.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 12 2011, 12:01 AM) *
Anyway you slice it, Hopkins is AT LEAST fighting about a decade past a 'average' use by date. I would say most at about 35 is considered old, but like said. It can be late 20's or even late 30's. But Hopkins is definitely fighting well past a use by date, and I would say a decade to be safe.


that was my point... hop is what 46 now or almost 46... he is fighting way past his use by date... lol...

back to my statement on age... look back at the 80's and early 90's... once a fighter hit his early 30's he was considered to be fighting on borrowed time.. specially in the lighter weight divisions... thats not quite the case anymore... maybe its conditioning i dont know but fighters are fighting to a more advanced age these days than 20 years ago....
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Method @ Jan 11 2011, 09:35 AM) *
Hopkins needs to tighten up a little bit. He proved he could take it to to the younger guy, but he needs to tighten up on his D a bit. I think he can take the dec, but he doesn't need to be suffering flash kd's (or kd's of any sort). He also doesnt neeed to be so reckless like he was in the 12th round. That was some sloppy stuff.


Yeah you're right and I still gave him the 12th laugh.gif

I wonder if Pascal rematches him just how much it will play on his mind getting owned 1st time around by a 45 year old guy? I'm sorry but if I'm a young champ I don't care how much experience the other dude has, it has got to fry my mind to see him coming on strong in the 12th and I'm the one doing the running.

I mean how do you even explain that to your girlfriend? laugh.gif Yeah honey grandad was a little tougher than I expected, haha.
Spyder
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 12 2011, 01:01 AM) *
Anyway you slice it, Hopkins is AT LEAST fighting about a decade past a 'average' use by date. I would say most at about 35 is considered old, but like said. It can be late 20's or even late 30's. But Hopkins is definitely fighting well past a use by date, and I would say a decade to be safe.

HGH is a helluva drug.

JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Spyder @ Jan 12 2011, 06:02 AM) *
HGH is a helluva drug.



damn is this a pic of stallone recently?... lol... dude has to be at least 60 huh?...or close to it...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 12 2011, 10:51 AM) *
damn is this a pic of stallone recently?... lol... dude has to be at least 60 huh?...or close to it...


Dude he is 64years old!!! Who looks like that at that age?
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 12 2011, 07:54 PM) *
Dude he is 64years old!!! Who looks like that at that age?


guys on medication... lol...
neophyte7
Hopkins needs to come forward behind his double jab and work Pascal from the bell.. wither his body. Hopkins punished Pascal and seems to fight better at 175 going forward. Both Pascal and Tarver fights Hopkins although 5 years apart showed Hopkins on the attack... bullying, roughing.. active workrate... Hopkins was caught relaxing twice against Pascal's explosiveness and I think Hopkins underestimated that explosive quickness. Hopkins goes after Pascal (who will be mentally SHOOK) AND breaks him down. Under tight defense Hopkins should step right to Pascal and take his wind from him with the same body attack... the right hand of Hopkins late gets Pascal rocky enough for a ten round stoppage. Psacal has poor stamina and relaxation...his muscle bound monkey frame and build tires easily and it shows... a 46 year has better stamina than a 28 year old in this one.. a big factor. I just see so much a prepared hopkins, even at 46 can improve and capitalize on... Pascals last two fight he was on the verge of being stopped... If Hopkins brings the same intensity I see him stopping Pascal... Hopkins has established himself as a ring Legend. the performance of Pascal is historic even as a draw. In many ways hopkins is eclipsing the accomplishments of ring legends like Ray Robinson and Marvin Hagler..
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