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EAlbian
Sounds like they are looking into this fight, I for one think it's actually a decent fight. Ortiz is a good fighter, he's a big 140lber so i don't see him struggling at 147.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=34729

i think the winner of this fight vs the Bradley/ Alexander winner is a great fight. IMO Berto fits in better with the 140lbers better than the welters, Pac and May don't look they are going to give him a fight. I see Bradley, Ortiz, Alexander, Miadana, and Khan all at 147 in the next year or so anyways.

Lots of good potential HBO fights at or around 140-147

Champions:
Alexander
Bradley
Khan
Berto

Young Contenders:
Miadana
Peterson bros
Rios
Alvarez
Tim Coleman
Mathysse
Kell Brook
Mike Jones(think he'd be better at 154 tho)
Mike Alvarado


Established Names:
Marquez
Judah
Katsidis
Robert Guerrero

Wild Cards:
Kotelnik
Mbuza
Jaun Urango
Guzman
Aydin
Senchenko
Malinaggi
Randal Bailey
Mathew Hatton
SmartyBeardo
Ortiz v Berto would be fireworks. I think Berto takes him.
EAlbian
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 14 2011, 01:15 PM) *
Ortiz v Berto would be fireworks. I think Berto takes him.


I agree, Ortiz has some boxing ability and enough power to make it interesting. I know a lot of people want to see berto step up against the Cottos, Mayweather, Pac but those fights may not be realistic given the circumstances. I think throwing him in with the deep pool of talent 140 will eventually establish the new star(s) of boxing.

I think Berto VS Alvarez could be really good fight in a year from now. Wouldn't mind seeing Miadana VS Alvarez to set it up. Golden Boy actually has some pretty good potential match ups. Kahn/Miadana/Ortiz/Alvarez/Mattysse/Marquez
gravytrain
I think Berto wins this pretty comfortably.
Fitz
I think Berto takes it as well.
Lil-lightsout
I like this fight. I would favor Berto but Ortiz would be dangerous early on.
EAlbian
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 14 2011, 05:07 PM) *
I like this fight. I would favor Berto but Ortiz would be dangerous early on.


Ortiz is also a lefty which gave Berto problems early on in the calazzo and quintana fights and Ortiz is a much bigger puncher that those guys
gravytrain
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 14 2011, 05:07 PM) *
I like this fight. I would favor Berto but Ortiz would be dangerous early on.


In his last fight Ortiz was apprehensive early on, I think it'll be the case this time too. If Berto takes advantage of it then Ortiz could very well be in for a long fight.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 14 2011, 05:16 PM) *
In his last fight Ortiz was apprehensive early on, I think it'll be the case this time too. If Berto takes advantage of it then Ortiz could very well be in for a long fight.


or go out early... i dont see ortiz being very competitive in this one...
TheFonz
As much as Berto sucks, Ortiz sucks even more.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Jan 14 2011, 06:55 PM) *
As much as Berto sucks, Ortiz sucks even more.


Man you got some high standards, lol.
gravytrain
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 14 2011, 06:22 PM) *
or go out early... i dont see ortiz being very competitive in this one...


it wouldn't shock me, I think if Berto turns it up early Ortiz will be fucked up for the rest of the fight. Either way I really see Ortiz losing this one and Berto winning convincingly.
The Original MrFactor
Ortiz instead of Cintron... He'll fight a legit 140 pounder, but not a legit guy at 147. Fighting Cintron gives Berto more credibility.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 14 2011, 11:56 PM) *
Ortiz instead of Cintron... He'll fight a legit 140 pounder, but not a legit guy at 147. Fighting Cintron gives Berto more credibility.


yes sir!!!
Fitz
I would definitely hope to see Ortiz get iced in this one.
ViperSniper
Berto-Cintron is a much better fight than this! Ortiz is in possibly the hottest division and his not gonna even bother attempting to get a title at 140?

I know he is very unpopular but I wish Cintron could some matchups..the guy has some skills and would give trouble to many top guys, if not, possibly beat some. If Cintron is willing to move down and fight, and Berto is finding it hard to get an opponent, they should both take the fight as both could benefit from each other at this point in time.
TheFonz
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 14 2011, 09:07 PM) *
Man you got some high standards, lol.




Maybe, I sound harsh. But to me me these both of these guys are the equivilent of the KC Chiefs, and STL Rams. They are pros but they still suck.
Big Slim Sweet
Ortiz doesn't have the speed to compete with Berto. Berto dominates from start to finish.
salvador
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 15 2011, 01:56 AM) *
Ortiz instead of Cintron... He'll fight a legit 140 pounder, but not a legit guy at 147. Fighting Cintron gives Berto more credibility.


Can Cintron make 147?

Williams keeps saying he can make 147, I'd love to see Berto fight Williams - or even Marg now that Cotto is fighting Mayorga.

Berto-Ortiz is a joke. Ortiz can barely hold his own at 140. Berto needs to step up or get off the stage.
SmartyBeardo
The more I think about it, in my Russian Standard cigar breathed hangover haze, the less sense this makes for Ortiz. Victor has too much work to do at 140. Too many good fights to make. Berto would mess him up.

Cintron would be a true challenge for Berto. If Andre could get by Cintron in convincing fashion, it might shut some of his critics traps.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (salvador @ Jan 15 2011, 10:22 AM) *
Can Cintron make 147?

Williams keeps saying he can make 147, I'd love to see Berto fight Williams - or even Marg now that Cotto is fighting Mayorga.

Berto-Ortiz is a joke. Ortiz can barely hold his own at 140. Berto needs to step up or get off the stage.


I was just about to post the same question.

I forget what fight it was, maybe against Angulo he fought at jr middleweight and when he stepped into the ring he was pretty heavy on the unofficial scales. But who knows maybe he can still make 147? Just not sure the last time he was there, and if it would affect his performance if he makes it.
Lil-lightsout

.
Maxy
Cintron is well pissed about this fight.

"It just shows to everyone in boxing how much of a pussy 'Berta' is. Now he's looking at another 140-pounder, but this time it's a young buck who can't really defend himself. 'Andrea' will continue to suck [manager] Al Haymon's dick, as long as Haymon gets him the 'easy way out' fights," Cintron said to BoxingScene.com. "No one wants to see 'Berta' fight anyone but me. I've been calling him out for a while and three times personally with [manager] Josh [Dubin].

"I would think that a fighter coming to your face and calling out would make him say to himself 'damn, this dude just came to me and called me out' and he would said 'okay, let's do it.' I know I would give the person a shot because he was man enough to come to me about it. 'Berta' is a bitch ass pussy. I would give him the world title for being the pussy, coward he is."
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Maxy @ Jan 15 2011, 11:20 AM) *
Cintron is well pissed about this fight.

"It just shows to everyone in boxing how much of a pussy 'Berta' is. Now he's looking at another 140-pounder, but this time it's a young buck who can't really defend himself. 'Andrea' will continue to suck [manager] Al Haymon's dick, as long as Haymon gets him the 'easy way out' fights," Cintron said to BoxingScene.com. "No one wants to see 'Berta' fight anyone but me. I've been calling him out for a while and three times personally with [manager] Josh [Dubin].

"I would think that a fighter coming to your face and calling out would make him say to himself 'damn, this dude just came to me and called me out' and he would said 'okay, let's do it.' I know I would give the person a shot because he was man enough to come to me about it. 'Berta' is a bitch ass pussy. I would give him the world title for being the pussy, coward he is."


cintrons just looking for a fight maxy... lol... coming from a man that has cried on more than one occasion in the ring i dont give cintrons words much merit... he needs to show he can hold back those tears... i feel embarrassed for him when he does that.. lol...
EAlbian
I think this fight would be entertaining, where as a cintron fight wouldn't. Fuck cintron, i don't care if he ever fights again and with the performance he's put on in the last 2 years i don't think HBO really cares either. They offered him paul williams in a rematch and he hasn't said shit about that but then again he took a header out of the ring the last time so i didn't expect much.l ortiz is there to be hit as is berto, they both have power and speed and Ortiz is a lefty and leftys have caught Berto early in fights. The guys at 140 will be at 147 in the next year, Bradleys been there a couple times and most of them fought at higher weights in the amateurs. Cintron hasn't fought at WW in almost 3 years, and what is his last notible win there?? David Estrada?? give me a break
JLUVBABY
cintron needs to be concentrating on jr middles or middleweights... berto needs to leave the jr welters alone and concentrate on welterweight contenders... as far as im concerned he gets no more passes after this fight fighting jr welters unless its the winner of bradley vs alexander or maybe khan... after that he needs to fight a full fledged welter...
SmartyBeardo
This is all bullshit. Berto should be fighting The Flinch, plain and simple.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 15 2011, 01:04 PM) *
This is all bullshit. Berto should be fighting The Flinch, plain and simple.


im scared to ask but who is the flinch beardo?... lol...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 15 2011, 02:57 PM) *
im scared to ask but who is the flinch beardo?... lol...

Mosley.

He better think of a better nickname when "Sugar" ices Pac, lol.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 15 2011, 02:02 PM) *
Mosley.

He better think of a better nickname when "Sugar" ices Pac, lol.


im not even going there lil... i got to go with pac on that one... lol..
Mean Mister Mustard
I believe Victor Ortiz has some Zab Judah in him; he's explosive early but once the going gets tough he finds it hard to adapt. He also has a tendency to wait too long for the perfect punch, thus making rounds closer than they should be.
BigG
^ Thats exactly it hes the mexican Zab Judah.....Berto will win it, he might get floored early but he'll win it in the end.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (salvador @ Jan 15 2011, 10:22 AM) *
Can Cintron make 147?

Williams keeps saying he can make 147, I'd love to see Berto fight Williams - or even Marg now that Cotto is fighting Mayorga.

Berto-Ortiz is a joke. Ortiz can barely hold his own at 140. Berto needs to step up or get off the stage.



He says he can and would just to make the fight. Cintron doesnt appear to be a guy who gets grossly out of shape between fights. He just went up one weight class to 154 to make some money because guys like Berto wouldnt fight him. Cintron is a legit WW and can make weight. I think Berto just put his skirt on for this one...
kidbazooka1
Ortiz has a chance but it's very slim chance.

I see Berto outboxing Ortiz to take a fairly easy UD.
EAlbian
Who is Kermit Cintron's last relevant win at 147? what's his best win?? Angulo? Cintron is a nobody and his career consist of being destroyed by margarito 2x, getting a gift draw against Martinez, and jumping out of the ring against williams.

His best wins are N'dou and Estrada. Cintron waited for Paulie Malinaggi to take N'dou 12 rounds before he was ready to, yeah this guy is a real contender.

I'll take Berto's resume over Cintron any day. Quintana, Urango, Callazo, Estrada, and Rivera beat any of Cintrons victories.

Now Ortiz's record is a joke as well. His best win's are a UD over a shell of Nate Campbell, a chinless Vivian Harris, a shot Antonio Diaz, and a Mike Arnaoutis who has won only 1 of his last 5. He should have got the nod against Peterson in his last fight but looked far from spectacular.

The thing is Ortiz is young and somewhat known on HBO, he has a couple good highlight KO's. Ortiz vs Berto could produce some fireworks and it sets up bigger fights. If Ortiz beats Berto you better believe Kahn or Bradley/Alexander winner jumps all over that fight and then the welterweight division is loaded with talent again. Berto vs Khan/Bradley/Alexander are good fights. A series of those fights could usher in the next generation of elite. It seems like all people are watching for is who is the next guy to fight Pac or Mayweather, boxing needs to establish new names because the guys at the top are just getting recycled and aren't gonna be around much longer.

What does a Cintron fight set up for Berto? Williams? Haymon won't let that happen. Cotto? not happening anytime soon. Pac? nope. Mosley? maybe but he could fight anybody and then fight whats left of Mosley after Pac gets through with him.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Jan 16 2011, 01:07 PM) *
Who is Kermit Cintron's last relevant win at 147? what's his best win?? Angulo? Cintron is a nobody and his career consist of being destroyed by margarito 2x, getting a gift draw against Martinez, and jumping out of the ring against williams.

His best wins are N'dou and Estrada. Cintron waited for Paulie Malinaggi to take N'dou 12 rounds before he was ready to, yeah this guy is a real contender.

I'll take Berto's resume over Cintron any day. Quintana, Urango, Callazo, Estrada, and Rivera beat any of Cintrons victories.

Now Ortiz's record is a joke as well. His best win's are a UD over a shell of Nate Campbell, a chinless Vivian Harris, a shot Antonio Diaz, and a Mike Arnaoutis who has won only 1 of his last 5. He should have got the nod against Peterson in his last fight but looked far from spectacular.

The thing is Ortiz is young and somewhat known on HBO, he has a couple good highlight KO's. Ortiz vs Berto could produce some fireworks and it sets up bigger fights. If Ortiz beats Berto you better believe Kahn or Bradley/Alexander winner jumps all over that fight and then the welterweight division is loaded with talent again. Berto vs Khan/Bradley/Alexander are good fights. A series of those fights could usher in the next generation of elite. It seems like all people are watching for is who is the next guy to fight Pac or Mayweather, boxing needs to establish new names because the guys at the top are just getting recycled and aren't gonna be around much longer.

What does a Cintron fight set up for Berto? Williams? Haymon won't let that happen. Cotto? not happening anytime soon. Pac? nope. Mosley? maybe but he could fight anybody and then fight whats left of Mosley after Pac gets through with him.

That is one helluva post, EAlbian.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Jan 16 2011, 04:07 PM) *
Who is Kermit Cintron's last relevant win at 147? what's his best win?? Angulo? Cintron is a nobody and his career consist of being destroyed by margarito 2x, getting a gift draw against Martinez, and jumping out of the ring against williams.

His best wins are N'dou and Estrada. Cintron waited for Paulie Malinaggi to take N'dou 12 rounds before he was ready to, yeah this guy is a real contender.

I'll take Berto's resume over Cintron any day. Quintana, Urango, Callazo, Estrada, and Rivera beat any of Cintrons victories.

Now Ortiz's record is a joke as well. His best win's are a UD over a shell of Nate Campbell, a chinless Vivian Harris, a shot Antonio Diaz, and a Mike Arnaoutis who has won only 1 of his last 5. He should have got the nod against Peterson in his last fight but looked far from spectacular.

The thing is Ortiz is young and somewhat known on HBO, he has a couple good highlight KO's. Ortiz vs Berto could produce some fireworks and it sets up bigger fights. If Ortiz beats Berto you better believe Kahn or Bradley/Alexander winner jumps all over that fight and then the welterweight division is loaded with talent again. Berto vs Khan/Bradley/Alexander are good fights. A series of those fights could usher in the next generation of elite. It seems like all people are watching for is who is the next guy to fight Pac or Mayweather, boxing needs to establish new names because the guys at the top are just getting recycled and aren't gonna be around much longer.

What does a Cintron fight set up for Berto? Williams? Haymon won't let that happen. Cotto? not happening anytime soon. Pac? nope. Mosley? maybe but he could fight anybody and then fight whats left of Mosley after Pac gets through with him.


Did AM use plaster in his gloves against Cintron? If so it has to put an asterisk on those losses by Kermit.

His win against Angulo is solid. Angulo is tough as shit and hits real hard, though he is crude.

Sure he got a gift against Martinez, but it was a competitive fight and he did okay against a P4P fighter.

He was beating PW, though it was still early, and to be honest I just do not get the whole flying out of the ring?

I have always been pretty hard on Kermit in the past, but IMO I would take him as an opponent for Berto right now(Mosley, Cotto, Pac are all busy)over any one else. As long as Cintron can make the weight comfortably, he is a dangerous opponent for Berto.

One thing Cintron DOES have is some serious right hand power, and I would love to see him hit Berto with one of those shots.

I actually saw Cintron this weekend at a wrestling tournament in Reading, my nephew wrestles and I believe he was there supporting a Reading wrestler. I should have asked him what is going on with him and his future.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 16 2011, 08:37 PM) *
Did AM use plaster in his gloves against Cintron? If so it has to put an asterisk on those losses by Kermit.

His win against Angulo is solid. Angulo is tough as shit and hits real hard, though he is crude.

Sure he got a gift against Martinez, but it was a competitive fight and he did okay against a P4P fighter.

He was beating PW, though it was still early, and to be honest I just do not get the whole flying out of the ring?

I have always been pretty hard on Kermit in the past, but IMO I would take him as an opponent for Berto right now(Mosley, Cotto, Pac are all busy)over any one else. As long as Cintron can make the weight comfortably, he is a dangerous opponent for Berto.

One thing Cintron DOES have is some serious right hand power, and I would love to see him hit Berto with one of those shots.

I actually saw Cintron this weekend at a wrestling tournament in Reading, my nephew wrestles and I believe he was there supporting a Reading wrestler. I should have asked him what is going on with him and his future.

Good points, LL. I had Cintron ahead of PWill myself. I just don't think Berto v Cintron is the ticket. I question whether he can make weight w/o diuretics. It would be an impressive win if Berto could get it, but I think that EAlbian is right that it is a no win situation for him.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 16 2011, 11:49 PM) *
Good points, LL. I had Cintron ahead of PWill myself. I just don't think Berto v Cintron is the ticket. I question whether he can make weight w/o diuretics. It would be an impressive win if Berto could get it, but I think that EAlbian is right that it is a no win situation for him.


Who you think he should fight?

I do think Ortiz is a pretty good selection, I think Ortiz could be a solid welter.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 16 2011, 08:59 PM) *
Who you think he should fight?

I do think Ortiz is a pretty good selection, I think Ortiz could be a solid welter.

The winner of Alexander v Bradley. In the meantime, maybe he should go to Europe after Zaveck and the IBF belt.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 17 2011, 12:10 AM) *
The winner of Alexander v Bradley. In the meantime, maybe he should go to Europe after Zaveck and the IBF belt.



Instead of staying here and fighting a KNOWN commodity in Kermit Cintron. Thats crazy. Lets keep it real. Berto doesnt want to fight a puncher because his chin is suspect. Ortiz is a decent puncher at 140, but he's no Kermit Cintron. One of you guys mentioned "Quintana, Urango, Callazo, Estrada, and Rivera," as Berto's victories that trump anything Cintron has ever done. Thats flat out wrong!! Cintron beat Estrada BEFORE Estrada was shot. He was shot by the time Berto got him. Cintron Angulo which trumps anything Berto has done up to this time. Look at Berto's last 8 or 10 fights. you'll see a group of light touches and never will be's. Berto struggled with Luis Collazzo. Whats would he do with a guy that can box like Collazzo, but with a lot more power? Thats why Bertos is dismissing Cintron's challenge. He scared shitless...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 17 2011, 12:00 AM) *
Instead of staying here and fighting a KNOWN commodity in Kermit Cintron. Thats crazy. Lets keep it real. Berto doesnt want to fight a puncher because his chin is suspect. Ortiz is a decent puncher at 140, but he's no Kermit Cintron. One of you guys mentioned "Quintana, Urango, Callazo, Estrada, and Rivera," as Berto's victories that trump anything Cintron has ever done. Thats flat out wrong!! Cintron beat Estrada BEFORE Estrada was shot. He was shot by the time Berto got him. Cintron Angulo which trumps anything Berto has done up to this time. Look at Berto's last 8 or 10 fights. you'll see a group of light touches and never will be's. Berto struggled with Luis Collazzo. Whats would he do with a guy that can box like Collazzo, but with a lot more power? Thats why Bertos is dismissing Cintron's challenge. He scared shitless...


i wouldnt say he's scared shitless. i see no reason why berto wouldnt have the speed and punching power to send cintron crying again... just saying... cintron would be my pick over ortiz if he can even get back down to 147... but that guy is in no form or fashion in a place to be a shot caller or call someone else out... same way some might argue berto has unfinished business with callazo, cintron has business left with williams and more so martinez who first knocked him out then went on to beat him by decision only to get jobbed with a draw... im not even counting margarito tho you'd think he'd want some payback there too... just saying... and for the record a body shot knocked him out vs margarito in the rematch (they hurt by the way ive been knocked out by a body shot... perfect shot to the solar plex...)... he also found a way out of the ring vs williams and didnt seem hurt on that stretcher when he listened to them announce the decision... well he was hurt after but it was his emotions as we watched him cry once again as they loaded him on that ambulance... lol... he needs to cut that mess out and lose like every other fighter... just saying man i feel what you are saying and if he can even make weight id prefer to see the berto fight cintron i suppose but honestly man i dont think cintron deserves a title shot there no more than ortiz does... and here is some food for thought... if there where still 8 divisions ortiz would be a welterweight, cintron right now would be a middleweight...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 17 2011, 02:59 AM) *
Ortiz should just stay at 140. He is in a hotter division than 147, and hasn't even reached the goal of becoming a champion at 140, and he is a contender at the moment, and the opportunity isn't far away for him if he wants it.
He has accomplished nothing at 140 yet, and wants to go to 147? This is why I hate where boxing is going sometimes.


But maybe in his case he is just struggling to make weight and it is affecting his performance? I am not sure, just guessing. Maybe he just wants to be at a more comfortable weight. Quite honestly I wish more fighters would not suck so much weight.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 17 2011, 02:32 AM) *
But maybe in his case he is just struggling to make weight and it is affecting his performance? I am not sure, just guessing. Maybe he just wants to be at a more comfortable weight. Quite honestly I wish more fighters would not suck so much weight.


110% agreed ll... in the long run all it does is cheats us fans when they turn in a sub par performance in a big fight...
EAlbian
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 17 2011, 04:32 AM) *
But that's an assumption that he is struggling to make weight. He has made weight every time, there hasn't been an indication that he can't make weight, he hasn't said he is moving up because he is struggling to make weight.
I'm not saying that it can't be the case, but I am not going to assume that when I haven't seen any evidence of that. I agree with you, if he is legitimately struggling to make weight. But I don't have a reason as of yet to believe it. Until then, he has no business moving up to 147 yet.
He hasn't even won a title at 140, and is a contender in a really nice division.



He has flat out said he is having trouble making weight and came in as middleweight in his last fight. Cintron's record is garbage, plain and simple. Estrada is not a defining victory, i'm sorry. Angulo's tough but unproven, when he stepped up he was outboxed. I'll take wins over 3 former champions any day over a mediocre contender. Berto's record is nothing close to special but Cintron's has no weight, no selling power, and isn't known for exciting fights. How about Cintron vs Martirosyan on a top rank live card? or Cintron vs Lara? Fight k9 or Yuri Foreman/wolak winner. The man 6' and 31 and hasn't fought at WW in 3 years, stay at JR MW which i think is the next hot division.

The point i was trying to make is that a fight over a relavant HBO fighter that has a recent highlight reel is a much easier sell to the public than against cintron who's 3-2-1. Berto vs Ortiz has a chance to end well for someone(KO) and set up big money for Khan/Bradley/Alexander, the guys at 140 will be at 147 by next year and those are the fights i want to see Berto/Ortiz/Bradley/Alexander/Khan over Berto/mosley(shot)/Margarito(shot)/Cintron(never was)/Cotto(Top Rank only fighter). Forget all of these guys that were names that are evidently on the downside or waited until they got older to make the fights (mosley/mayweather). These fights should happen now while these guys are young and looking for glory. lets establish new names and forget about recycling the old ones.
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