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ViperSniper
1. Carl Froch!
This dude may possibly have one of the best resume at Super Middleweight with his only defeat coming from Kessler. Froch has good wins over Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell & Abraham...he really has creeped his way up the rankings yet feel he could be a pinch higher on more lists.

2. Wladimir Klitschko
The guy fights all comers and has defended his title(s) enough times for many years in such dominant fashion it's hard for me not to acknowledge his body of work. Despite being labeled 'boring' and facing weak competition, Wlad does face ALL comers and although may not be exciting he gets the results, never giving his opponents that chance of ever winning.

3. Amir Khan
Him having a fragile chin and avoiding big punchers is what was pinned on Khan. Now that he not only faced the biggest puncher the division has to offer, he received some huge punchers from the Argentine, stood up to them and got the victory. After all of that, he is still criticized for the very same things he just proved otherwise in his last fight because he was hurt against a very heavy handed fighter? Khan is taking the right steps required to becoming a better fighter.
SmartyBeardo
Humberto Soto - 10 straight wins. Last loss a controversial DQ three years ago. 4 wins each in 2009 and 2010 (versus opponents with combined records of 222-20-4 at the time he fought them). He defeated Diaz, Dominguez, Munoz, and (possibly the FOTY) Antillon. He is not a superstar, just a consummate pro and deserves more credit for his accomplishments. I think he was Fighter of 2010.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 16 2011, 07:45 PM) *
Agreed on all three. It's not that nobody rates them, but I think they aren't always given the credit they deserve.

I also don't think Berto is going to be the next big thing or anything, like a future great. But I think he is solid, he looks to try. To an extent, I think he sometimes gets criticised a little bit too much.

I agree with you on Berto. Pac should be fighting Berto or Berto should be fighting The Flinch.

I think Cintron deserves more respect. 2 of his 3 losses (though the draw with SMartinez should be his 4th loss) were questionable KO losses to Maggotrito. I'd like to see a rematch with PWill. He gave SMartinez the game plan.

I think Angulo is under appreciated. All he does is go in and get it on. What's not to like. He aint no superstar but if he was fighting in Vegas when I was there I would not miss it. One loss, to Cintron.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 16 2011, 09:51 PM) *
Humberto Soto - 10 straight wins. Last loss a controversial DQ three years ago. 4 wins each in 2009 and 2010 (versus opponents with combined records of 222-20-4 at the time he fought them). He defeated Diaz, Dominguez, Munoz, and (possibly the FOTY) Antillon. He is not a superstar, just a consummate pro and deserves more credit for his accomplishments. I think he was Fighter of 2010.


i thought soto lost to david diaz... i watched that fight live and while i was pretty well hammered by time the locked horns i thought diaz out worked him... that aside im not sure soto is under rated or under appreciated... he was listed as a possible opponent for pac back after pac beat diaz... that fight never happened but from i remember a lot of people gave him a legit chance at winning that fight.. would have been a good one i think....
Lil-lightsout
Tell you what Bradley and Alexander must be considering nobody wants to see them fight live. I know times are rough there but damn people are missing out on one great match up. I guarantee you if it was say a Pac or Floyd or another big name they would sell a shit more tickets.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 17 2011, 12:50 AM) *
Tell you what Bradley and Alexander must be considering nobody wants to see them fight live. I know times are rough there but damn people are missing out on one great match up. I guarantee you if it was say a Pac or Floyd or another big name they would sell a shit more tickets.


i think the problem with that fight is the location ll... detroit is a crumbling economy... not many people have the money to do much more than survive over there... that was a promoters blunder picking detroit... that fight was a natural for st louis and they could have brought in neutral judges... the fight would have sold out...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 17 2011, 01:58 AM) *
i think the problem with that fight is the location ll... detroit is a crumbling economy... not many people have the money to do much more than survive over there... that was a promoters blunder picking detroit... that fight was a natural for st louis and they could have brought in neutral judges... the fight would have sold out...


I hear what you are saying, and I totally agree it is a terrible location. But you would still think they would sell more than a few hundred tickets. I mean is everyone hurting there and broke?
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 17 2011, 01:02 AM) *
I hear what you are saying, and I totally agree it is a terrible location. But you would still think they would sell more than a few hundred tickets. I mean is everyone hurting there and broke?


ll... my best friend lives there man... and from what i hear yes... people are getting shot and killed over chump change ($5)... its bad... businesses are closing everday... where a lot of the country went through a recession, they are going through a depression that started before what we would call the recession began... by friend went almost 3 years without working... he finally got gov. asst to go back to school and just got a job driving rigs a few months ago... its bad over there man...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 17 2011, 02:06 AM) *
ll... my best friend lives there man... and from what i hear yes... people are getting shot and killed over chump change ($5)... its bad... businesses are closing everday... where a lot of the country went through a recession, they are going through a depression that started before what we would call the recession began... by friend went almost 3 years without working... he finally got gov. asst to go back to school and just got a job driving rigs a few months ago... its bad over there man...


Sorry to hear that man.

My wife's mother is from Detroit. Her two sisters still live there and a bunch of my wife's cousins still live there also. We hardly ever have any contact with them so I have no idea how they are doing.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jan 17 2011, 01:16 AM) *
Sorry to hear that man.

My wife's mother is from Detroit. Her two sisters still live there and a bunch of my wife's cousins still live there also. We hardly ever have any contact with them so I have no idea how they are doing.


some live better than others but its bad... im sure for the most part people have better things to do with their money than to go watch a fight... and truth is probably more can afford a ticket but im sure they are scared to leave their vehicles parked outside the arena for fear of break in... imma call my buddy tomorrow to see if he's going.... i would think he's making enough but i know he had a lot of catching up to do...
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Paul Williams, always prepared to take on guys no-one else wants to. Always is in exciting fights yet apparently can't sell out a phone box. Paul need some love!!

And I would like to have seen my man Ivan Claderon get some more love through his career as well.
BigG
Humberto Soto
EAlbian
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jan 17 2011, 12:18 AM) *
I agree with you on Berto. Pac should be fighting Berto or Berto should be fighting The Flinch.

I think Cintron deserves more respect. 2 of his 3 losses (though the draw with SMartinez should be his 4th loss) were questionable KO losses to Maggotrito. I'd like to see a rematch with PWill. He gave SMartinez the game plan.

I think Angulo is under appreciated. All he does is go in and get it on. What's not to like. He aint no superstar but if he was fighting in Vegas when I was there I would not miss it. One loss, to Cintron.



Berto hasn't done enough to warrant a Pac fight at this point. The Mosley fight makes sense, i think that would have be a good fight for both men and the winner would deserve a shot a Pac. If Berto won he would have beaten a full fledged WW and a recognizable name. Had Mosley won he would have beaten a young undefeated champion.

Cintron was wiped out against Margs, plaster takes time to set in and he was blown out in 5 and 6 rounds. He was Ko'd against Martinez. Angulo fight is a good win but Angulo was taking a big step up and it was bad match making on Angulo's team. Fight PWill or go on to fight an up and coming JR MW, Vanes or Lara wouldn't be bad fights Foreman/Wolek winner would be ok. It would be a nice step up for JCC JR. Sechew Powell doesnt have an opponent. Clottey??

Angulo fucked up, he's an illegal and can't fight in the US. I would love a fight with Margarito/Cotto winner in PR or Aztec Stadium. K9 fight could produce some fireworks. Alvarez/Angulo could be huge in a year or two. Kirkland fight in 1-2 years could be big, would be a great fight.

The marketing department from HBO would be smart to push these fights/fighters. HBO keeps trying to create stars by feeding each guy bums. They should be making tough fights( pushing like they did with Martinez/Williams II and Bradley/Alexander) and the stars will create themselves and fans will be gained through this process.

Bradley/Alexander should fight Khan or Berto/Ortiz winner the other should fight Alvarez. There are no soft touches there for any guy. The guy who comes out of that could fight a Pac or Mayweather but they need to fight each other first and really establish a name for themselves. IMO none of those guys should even talk about Mayweather or Pac till 2012. Berto included. There's a star in there somewhere and the only way to find out is to make them fight each other. They are all HBO fighters and none of them are PPV attractions yet so i see no reason not to make the fights, by 2012 we would have established names and a potential superstar(s).

The losers wouldn't even have to go anywhere as there are plenty of match ups to be made( throw Judah, Mathssye, Miadana, and Marquez in there) between them
gravytrain
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Jan 17 2011, 02:03 PM) *
Berto hasn't done enough to warrant a Pac fight at this point. The Mosley fight makes sense, i think that would have be a good fight for both men and the winner would deserve a shot a Pac. If Berto won he would have beaten a full fledged WW and a recognizable name. Had Mosley won he would have beaten a young undefeated champion.

Cintron was wiped out against Margs, plaster takes time to set in and he was blown out in 5 and 6 rounds. He was Ko'd against Martinez. Angulo fight is a good win but Angulo was taking a big step up and it was bad match making on Angulo's team. Fight PWill or go on to fight an up and coming JR MW, Vanes or Lara wouldn't be bad fights Foreman/Wolek winner would be ok. It would be a nice step up for JCC JR. Sechew Powell doesnt have an opponent. Clottey??

Angulo fucked up, he's an illegal and can't fight in the US. I would love a fight with Margarito/Cotto winner in PR or Aztec Stadium. K9 fight could produce some fireworks. Alvarez/Angulo could be huge in a year or two. Kirkland fight in 1-2 years could be big, would be a great fight.

The marketing department from HBO would be smart to push these fights/fighters. HBO keeps trying to create stars by feeding each guy bums. They should be making tough fights( pushing like they did with Martinez/Williams II and Bradley/Alexander) and the stars will create themselves and fans will be gained through this process.

Bradley/Alexander should fight Khan or Berto/Ortiz winner the other should fight Alvarez. There are no soft touches there for any guy. The guy who comes out of that could fight a Pac or Mayweather but they need to fight each other first and really establish a name for themselves. IMO none of those guys should even talk about Mayweather or Pac till 2012. Berto included. There's a star in there somewhere and the only way to find out is to make them fight each other. They are all HBO fighters and none of them are PPV attractions yet so i see no reason not to make the fights, by 2012 we would have established names and a potential superstar(s).

The losers wouldn't even have to go anywhere as there are plenty of match ups to be made( throw Judah, Mathssye, Miadana, and Marquez in there) between them


No, that's promoters. The only thing HBO can do is say they want a fight, just because they want it doesn't mean they'll get it though.
EAlbian
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 17 2011, 04:18 PM) *
No, that's promoters. The only thing HBO can do is say they want a fight, just because they want it doesn't mean they'll get it though.


HBO has the money and the dates, if the promoters don't want to make the fights they can go to showtime or ESPN for half or a quarter of the money. HBO wields the real power.

What i meant by the marketing department, is exposure, make sure the fights and the fighters are exposed to the public and the public will demand the fights. The public can't demand fights and fighters they don't know exist. HBO has been trying to force fights on its audience for the last 5 years, it hasn't been working and the numbers have been decreasing. Stars are made through competitive fights, put two young up and comers into the ring and let them set their own paths. When they are household names and large draws put them on PPV. Manny Pacquiao came to be by beating tough opponents on HBO until he was a big enough draw to fight on PPV's same as Mayweather, De la Hoya, and Trinidad. Pacquia beat Barerra and fought Marquez I on HBO. Mayweather got to where he's at by beating guys like Corrales and Castillo on HBO. De la Hoya beat guys like Quartey and Carr on HBO. I don't know where HBO lost track of this.

Tough fights make fighters, force two animals into a corner and you're going to see a fight. Stars aren't made by feeding guys bums and has beens. HBO has a crop of talented young fighters and needs force them into a corner, fight now, here, with us, or don't fight on HBO, take it or leave it. Because if these fighters want to be prima donnas then im sure hundreds of other fighters will be waiting to occupy those dates. The promoters not named Arum i feel will make these fights and the best thing about it is his stable is getting old and they don't need him to make any of these fights
gravytrain
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Jan 17 2011, 04:01 PM) *
HBO has the money and the dates, if the promoters don't want to make the fights they can go to showtime or ESPN for half or a quarter of the money. HBO wields the real power.

What i meant by the marketing department, is exposure, make sure the fights and the fighters are exposed to the public and the public will demand the fights. The public can't demand fights and fighters they don't know exist. HBO has been trying to force fights on its audience for the last 5 years, it hasn't been working and the numbers have been decreasing. Stars are made through competitive fights, put two young up and comers into the ring and let them set their own paths. When they are household names and large draws put them on PPV. Manny Pacquiao came to be by beating tough opponents on HBO until he was a big enough draw to fight on PPV's same as Mayweather, De la Hoya, and Trinidad. Pacquia beat Barerra and fought Marquez I on HBO. Mayweather got to where he's at by beating guys like Corrales and Castillo on HBO. De la Hoya beat guys like Quartey and Carr on HBO. I don't know where HBO lost track of this.

Tough fights make fighters, force two animals into a corner and you're going to see a fight. Stars aren't made by feeding guys bums and has beens. HBO has a crop of talented young fighters and needs force them into a corner, fight now, here, with us, or don't fight on HBO, take it or leave it. Because if these fighters want to be prima donnas then im sure hundreds of other fighters will be waiting to occupy those dates. The promoters not named Arum i feel will make these fights and the best thing about it is his stable is getting old and they don't need him to make any of these fights


Even if HBO builds up a fighter then that fighter and the promoter are the ones picking the opponents once they start having PPV fights, if HBO doesn't play ball on PPVS then the promoter will just put it on. I read about this before but don't know if it's true, I think Arum got mad with HBO for trying to tell him who to put Mayweather in the ring with. He said HBO was overstepping its role since it can't act as a promoter. So why is HBO going to invest so much time and money into something when a promoter will just tell them to fuck off when it comes to the real money? They're already deep in bed with GBP to provide them with fights, HBO isn't showing clout with that.

The problem is with the managers, promoters, and fighters.
EAlbian
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 17 2011, 04:35 PM) *
Even if HBO builds up a fighter then that fighter and the promoter are the ones picking the opponents once they start having PPV fights, if HBO doesn't play ball on PPVS then the promoter will just put it on. I read about this before but don't know if it's true, I think Arum got mad with HBO for trying to tell him who to put Mayweather in the ring with. He said HBO was overstepping its role since it can't act as a promoter. So why is HBO going to invest so much time and money into something when a promoter will just tell them to fuck off when it comes to the real money? They're already deep in bed with GBP to provide them with fights, HBO isn't showing clout with that.

The problem is with the managers, promoters, and fighters.


Ok, have the promoter put the PPV on by himself and see how well that turns out. HBO needs to keep putting its foot down. Golden Boy and Top Rank are the only ones who can do solo PPVs and be semi successful. Golden Boy will play ball and has put it's fighters in tough and the rest of the fighters are Shaw, Dibella, Goosen, Main Events, and Don King fighters. Plus the fights i'm talking about are all pre PPV so it would really matter and the best fighters want to fight on HBO and HOB PPV, it's the benchmark. You're are talking career high pay days and a chance to be elevated to a PPV fighter, this is the opportunity these fighters and promoters look for in a career. HBO has been paying a lot of money for garbage fights and it needs to end. It wasn't always like this, this is a recent trend.

Arum is mad at HBO because of the recent Martinez getting Cotto's date. Arum says he will take his fighters elsewhere, good for him. I enjoy HBO telecasted PPVs from a fan point and i'm sure a lot of people agree with me. HBO has say in every PPV it puts on, and you don't get an HBO PPV until you prove yourself to be worth more than what they are willing to pay for you or have in the budget, ie the De la Hoyas, Mayweathers, Pacquaio's, Trinidad's, Cotto to some respect. To be on HBO PPV you need to have a large following, be able to sell tickets, and have an opponent. Obviously there are exceptions mosley v mora(golden boy paid for the production) pac v clottey( pacquaio is a superstar)
gravytrain
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Jan 17 2011, 06:17 PM) *
Ok, have the promoter put the PPV on by himself and see how well that turns out. HBO needs to keep putting its foot down. Golden Boy and Top Rank are the only ones who can do solo PPVs and be semi successful. Golden Boy will play ball and has put it's fighters in tough and the rest of the fighters are Shaw, Dibella, Goosen, Main Events, and Don King fighters. Plus the fights i'm talking about are all pre PPV so it would really matter and the best fighters want to fight on HBO and HOB PPV, it's the benchmark. You're are talking career high pay days and a chance to be elevated to a PPV fighter, this is the opportunity these fighters and promoters look for in a career. HBO has been paying a lot of money for garbage fights and it needs to end. It wasn't always like this, this is a recent trend.

Arum is mad at HBO because of the recent Martinez getting Cotto's date. Arum says he will take his fighters elsewhere, good for him. I enjoy HBO telecasted PPVs from a fan point and i'm sure a lot of people agree with me. HBO has say in every PPV it puts on, and you don't get an HBO PPV until you prove yourself to be worth more than what they are willing to pay for you or have in the budget, ie the De la Hoyas, Mayweathers, Pacquaio's, Trinidad's, Cotto to some respect. To be on HBO PPV you need to have a large following, be able to sell tickets, and have an opponent. Obviously there are exceptions mosley v mora(golden boy paid for the production) pac v clottey( pacquaio is a superstar)


If they tried to strongarm a promoter they'd just cry foul. HBO is also in so deep with promoters to have those PPV fights that they've to put on shitty fights. HBO isn't exactly getting anything out of a bust either so I can't say I place much blame on them, at the end of the day it's the promoter using his star as leverage for dates. HBO also can't be expected to invest so heavily in fighters because then they'd be doing the job of a promoter/manager only to get capped revenue on a PPV.

For boxing to get elevated it's in the hands of the people getting paid to do it.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 17 2011, 06:06 PM) *
If they tried to strongarm a promoter they'd just cry foul. HBO is also in so deep with promoters to have those PPV fights that they've to put on shitty fights. HBO isn't exactly getting anything out of a bust either so I can't say I place much blame on them, at the end of the day it's the promoter using his star as leverage for dates. HBO also can't be expected to invest so heavily in fighters because then they'd be doing the job of a promoter/manager only to get capped revenue on a PPV.

For boxing to get elevated it's in the hands of the people getting paid to do it.


gravy... me and my boy elvers had this convo the other day... hbo is as much a promoter as arum gb and king without having the promoters hat on... hbo pretty much tells the promoters who they will allow on their network... thats the difference between them and showtime... prime example is martinez and williams... im sure you dont tell hbo no... and im sure williams canp would have preferred to go in another direction regardless of what they might have said otherwise...
EAlbian
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 17 2011, 07:06 PM) *
If they tried to strongarm a promoter they'd just cry foul. HBO is also in so deep with promoters to have those PPV fights that they've to put on shitty fights. HBO isn't exactly getting anything out of a bust either so I can't say I place much blame on them, at the end of the day it's the promoter using his star as leverage for dates. HBO also can't be expected to invest so heavily in fighters because then they'd be doing the job of a promoter/manager only to get capped revenue on a PPV.

For boxing to get elevated it's in the hands of the people getting paid to do it.


Cry foul to who?? HBO has been letting promoters do their job and thats where the problem lies. Arum is already talking to showtime to put on the Pac/Mosley fight, and i say goo let him. HBO has a deep pool of talent that are under contract with them right now and can call for certain fights to be made like they did with Bradley/Alexander and Williams/Martinez. The better the fights the more subscribers which means more money for HBO and when one of the WCB fighters is elevated to PPV then thats where they make the money. It starts at HBO because if they allow promoters to make the matches they will put their fighters in soft for large amounts of money. It starts with the networks because with out them the fights get no exposure
gravytrain
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Jan 18 2011, 12:30 PM) *
Cry foul to who?? HBO has been letting promoters do their job and thats where the problem lies. Arum is already talking to showtime to put on the Pac/Mosley fight, and i say goo let him. HBO has a deep pool of talent that are under contract with them right now and can call for certain fights to be made like they did with Bradley/Alexander and Williams/Martinez. The better the fights the more subscribers which means more money for HBO and when one of the WCB fighters is elevated to PPV then thats where they make the money. It starts at HBO because if they allow promoters to make the matches they will put their fighters in soft for large amounts of money. It starts with the networks because with out them the fights get no exposure


File a lawsuit against HBO, Arum has done it before. The problem is HBO can only do so much, if the promoters don't want to make the fight happen there's only so much HBO can do. That's why it'd make no sense for them to invest time and money into building up fighters that will want a PPV instead of a WCB when WCB is better for HBO.

Come on, man. A fighter could get exposure on Youtube and that's all on them. How many people have became stars overnight just for some bullshit video on Youtube? A young entertaining fighter could gain tons of interest just from one of their people putting them on there. How many times do you see fighters in the media other than promoting a fight? Not unless they've legal trouble. How many fighters do you see walking around cities like Ali used to do to get word of mouth marketing? None. If this stuff was happening we probably wouldn't even be talking about HBO because there would be a good chance boxing would be on free TV again. HBO shouldn't have to dig into its pocketbook, fighters should hire some Ari Gold like agent rather than the cats they've been paying.
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