Say what you really mean, Sal...






You know it, Brutal...that Clottey fight reeked to high Heaven the day it was signed, but I don't wanna get into all that again...lol

Those who are elevating Donaire higher in their P4P list will have a change of mind once the Pactards make Donaire their new God-heir to replace Pacquiao.

but you and I both know ahem, they, won't do that because he's Filipino American...he's all Americanized like De La Hoya....most of them hate Donaire...

Shit, even PACQUIAO has a problem with Donaire...doesn't invite him to his parties or lobby for him to fight on his undercards...

Totally dominant, and the fight went as expected for me, but I thought it would have went longer obviously, maybe seeing this happen in the mid-late rounds, but I never gave Montiel much of a shot due to styles.
Montiel looked totally tense in the first round, in the second I think it was a shame he got caught so early. About a minute or so into the second round, Montiel loosened up and was flowing a lot more, and was winning that round and doing some really good work, them bam, got caught and the fight over.

Also I hate that cunt Arum. How the hell can he say that he isn't really interested in a fight with the winner of the tourney, and pretty much saying that he would beat them anyways and everyone at that weight, so probably just move up. Yes, Agbeko and Mares are not worthy, but Israel Vazquez was mentioned as an opponent for him to move up? I'm sick of Arum assuming results. Pretty much said that for a fight to happen with the winner of the tourney, he will have to be offered something pretty well and he doesn't think it is likely. Cock sucker.

The only thing is almost no one even gave Pacman a chance vs DLH!

WOW!!! That was an awesome shot. This guy is just amazing, and I am a big fan of his now. I wonder if Vic still wants that rematch?

Vic would be stopped again IMO!!!

hahahahahah

Vic don't want none anymore Nonito will take that fool out in the first.

Nonito has improved alot since that first fight he'll crush Vic big time.

+1



So has Vic! But styles makes fights and unless Vic actually lands a punch on Nonito big enough, Donaire stops him again. Donaire is that good.

I've had Donaire #3 P4P after he dismantled Sodyrenko that easily (who is a tough tough fighter).

But after what he just did against Montiel, I have to put him equal 1-3, sharing the top spot with Mayweather and Pac.

I don't think you can split them.

BTW, did anyone notice Montiels temple concaved? You could actually see a dent in his head......

Donaire has always had scary power in that left trust me i know.

Come on man...Hatton? Similar result to this fight here. Totally blitzed the man at his own weight.

Don't shit on that Hatton KO. How can you shit on that Hatton KO????

Arum is 80 years old and not trying to share with any other promoter in his golden years. I agree Donaire vs the winner of Agbeko-Mares makes the most sense but knew that wasn't likely when he kept Nonito and Montiel out of the tourney in the first place.


LOL. I love Vic but Donaire is simply much better than him. It goes beyond styles with these two. Plus Vic hasn't seemed to carry his power to 118 whereas Donaire looks more comfy than ever.

Donaire is at 4 or 5 for me.

1. Mayweather (though he doesn't seem to be fighting, so Pacquiao if I don't include Mayweather)
2. Pacquiao
3. Marquez

Then the next 3 could be switched with anyone between Martinez, Donaire and Hopkins. I think Donaire can be rated anywhere from as high as 3 (though I personally wouldn't, Marquez has been excellent and has maintained it for a long time, and has done nothing to lose it) and as low as 6 where I wouldn't argue if someone had Martinez or Hopkins ahead. But I don't think he is a clear top 3, I think there are other fighters who are roughly the same as him at the moment.

Me I would put Donaire ahead of JMM. Marquez got embarrassed by Floyd, had a life and death encounter with Diaz in their first fight, and Katsidas had him down early. JMM is still good no doubt, but as far as P4P IMO he does not belong ahead of Donaire considering how he performed in the fights I mentioned. Donaire is way more impressive and dominant then the aging Marquez.

To me I actually think Vic slipped a bit, not improved. He has lost a fight(Agbeko) and had that very close one a little bit ago which I think was a draw? He just looks slower and his stamina does not seem all too great.

I do agree that Donaire is that good, and he is way too fast and powerful and would surely stop Vic again. Obviously Vic would need to land one helluva bomb to win, his only chance. After seeing this, I really do wonder if Vic truly would want a rematch and if he really believes he could win. If they do rematch, please keep a close look out on your bro, I do not want him to do anything stupid. We need him here, he's P4P the best poster on this forum!

Yeh, I can see Fitz point (hope all has been well Mr Fitz, it's been a long while).

I guess it comes down to how you judge P4P. If you judge it on what has been done over their career more then you would have JMM way above Donaire. But if you judge recent performances and talent over a shorter timeframe, then Donaire gets the nod, which is why I have him right up the top.

That's half the fun of P4P lists, everyone has their own slightly different criteria and views on how it should be judged.

Though this is a different topic I guess, I'll start a P4P thread.

Why the hell did the ref let that go on? Montiel was so obviously gone he needn't have taken those other two punches. Great victory for Donaire, I thought he might force a late stoppage but never expected a 2 round blow-out like that.

What's going on ATN, welcome back.

Well like I said earlier, I think Marquez still deserves his #3 spot. I agree now that Marquez is only going down from here and Donaire has more upside, and has won his fights more clearly.
But I don't think it's fair to knock Marquez for having competitive fights with Diaz and getting knocked down by Katsidis. He can get put down, but the point is how he handles it, and he isn't the first great fighter that can be put down.
Plus, Marquez shouldn't be winning his fights more clearly than Donaire. Marquez is fighting above his weight, and that should be taken into account. He stopped Casamayor, a 135 champion and someone that has never been stopped before, not even Corrales, Castillo and others could do it, and Diaz the 135 champion who was young and fresh and never been stopped before. To become undisputed 135 champion. That is very impressive and to be winning like this and performing like this at his age should also be considered.
I didn't punish Marquez severely for his loss against Mayweather. Marquez hasn't really done anything bad where he should be punished, and what Donaire has done in his last 2 fights isn't more impressive than what Marquez has been since 2006, and has been extremely consistent.
I just think Marquez accomplishments are still much better than Donaire's last 2 fights, and I don't think Marquez has done anything yet to be punished. Just my opinion though.
I agree that Donaire has more upside, and actually looks better recently, but I pay attention to the work they have done, and Marquez has been very consistent.

True, good point actually. Vic did improve after the Donaire defeat and bounced back stronger than you could have asked for. But, I agree he is no longer at his best when he fights at 118. He has definitely lost some of his pop and a pinch off his speed due to the weight climb as it's now his third division.

Vic gave up on Donaire a while back as it seemed pretty clear he wasn't going to be getting the rematch like he wanted. But I really do think deep down inside he still wants the fight and if he was offered it, guarantee he would take it. The first fight Vic never really landed anything too meaningful so, that was always something Vic could have changed in the rematch as his power was that much of a factor, as 112 would have been his best bet to avenge his first defeat. But now at 118, being 35 years old I don't think Darchinyan chances have increased at all, specially now that Donaire is running red hot atm. Donaire is wrong for Darhinyan!



Great points! In regards to Marquez losing to Mayweather I don't think a p4p#2 fighter should drop so much in rankings for loosing to #1 as you can't loose to anyone better. That's not even mentioning about Marquez moving up 2 divisions to take the fight lol.

I judge P4P based on longevity and good competition. Pacuiao hasn't has been beating good opposition since 2006 and hasn't had a loss since. That being said, the Pacquiao fans have been driving me nuts, so if you want to put Donaire ahead just to piss them off, I would not mind it.

regarding Darchynian getting a rematch with Donaire; I think Darchy is crazy enough to take that rematch. The man is a puncher and he will always believe that one shot will be enough to end the fight. Donaire though, is just too fast a counter puncher. He has to be the fastest counter puncher since Roy Jones. Well maybe not that fast, but hey, he made Montiel look like a slug. If you rush him, he counters and if you don't, he can still spear you with right hands.

I can't imagine why you aren't impressed with his last 6 matches. To me those were some of the most impressive fights I've ever seen. Can you imagine someone who started smaller than Donaire destroying Clottey, DLH, Hatton, Cotto, and Marg? I can't think of a more impressive hit list for any current fighter given the circumstances.

I agree with you on this. Pac is hated though for whatever reason. It just seems he can't do anything right to please anyone but his resume is superior to the inactive Floyd Mayweather Jr, unless you include slapping around his woman!

Montiel got blasted. I definitely didn't see that coming. I don't think we can call this KO of the year though since Montiel got back up and was stopped on his feet. Montiel took those shots well on his feet too. I wouldn't have minded if the ref let the fight go a little longer, but Montiel had already taken some serious damage so I can't complain about the stoppage.

It looks like Donaire will soon become a superstar. However, I'm surprised no one has mentioned PED's yet, especially with Victor Conte working in his corner. It doesn't look good when you're climbing the weights and knocking guys out left and right and being associated with someone as notorious as Conte. All that aside, I look forward to seeing Donaire in the ring again. He has a great left hook, and it would be awesome if he could move up in weight and take on Gamboa or Juanma.

Because all of them come with qualifiers... unlike all of the great work Pacquiao did from 122-130.

Well that was AMAZING!!!! What a brutal shot!!! Now KO's like these are what make boxing great! However, I can't yet put Donaire up with Pacquiao yet, because Manny still has more experience. Donaire said himself that he is fine being #2 and that Manny is #1. Now, if Donaire unifies the division with performances like that, he has the potential to maybe move ahead of Manny. But we have to see what happens in his next couple of defenses first.

But Mares, Pacquiao, and he, are my favorite fighters right now! KO of the year for sure. Even better than Martinez-Williams!

Jack

What kind of qualifiers other than the suspicions? Nobody gave him a chance against DLH. And two years before he fought Marg the mere idea that he would have been in the same ring with someone that big would have been comical.

If you want to say he cherry picked his opponents that's fine, but he didn't just beat them - he destroyed them. His fights with Morales and JMM were competitive whereas his fights with Cotto, Clottey, DLH, Marg and Hatton weren't.

it's like Marciano beating Louis when he did, it's impressive on paper but realistically the fight would have been different closer to the prime of Marciano's opponent. on paper all of his recent victories sound good but the only two i really give him credit for are Hatton and Clottey. Roach used to train DLH, he knew the weight would be an issue. Cotto and Marg weren't the fighters the same fighters they were 2 years ago either, if it wasn't Pac it would have been someone else.

i think the main reason i don't give Pac as much credit as some people is because he'd a chance to fight a "prime" Mosley coming off of a Margarito victory and they passed on it for a lesser fight. Clottey wasn't bigger money and promotion wouldn't have even been a problem since Mosley left GBP to fight Pac.

I'm surprised someone has already mentioned PED's. I don't see how anything Donaire has done has been suspicious at all...impressive yes, but it's not like he is moving multiple division, while improving in several areas. He has moved up a division and looked how he has in the past, which is great. Only thing now is he was able to do that against another great fighter, which makes this even more greater.

Of course he would. Vic is a warrior & even if he lost again he would give it a shot.

It as a great ko and I can see the argument for this ko.

But Martinez made my man PWill fall lips first on the mat and he looked like a dead fish.

i don't know how serious Donaire was but he said he's open to any tests for what it's worth.

what Donaire was doing on his little image piece was just legal blood doping, high altitude training is legal but an EPO that does the same thing isn't lol. he's doing some things already but nothing i know of that's banned, being willing to be tested is in his favor too.

The most amazing point about this fight is Montiel managed to get up while in The Land of Twitch. That is the first time that I can remember someone literally able to beat the count after being sent there.

Also, I am not accusing Donaire of anything but I feel that the handwrap subject in boxing should be addressed.

I don't really think the dead horse needs to be further beaten on this subject...

Exactly, well said Viper.

Donaire is the same fighter he has been for a long long time, he just has more confidence now and looks more of a nautral Bamtam for a guy 5'7". His lack of confidence for a guy with his ability before was incredible. I remember when he was nervous and always seemed to be doubting himself.

I thought for a long time now that either Donaire or Gamboa would develop into a superstar, perhaps both, but for now, at least the former has! I'm not nearly as sure on Gamboa anymore, he has stamina issues (perhaps just training dedication issues) and a very suspect chin.

just my opinion but gamboa is being held back by arum... his coming out party should be versus lopez and arum doesnt seem to want to make that fight... i suppose solis is another belt but its not the superfight gamboa is after... just my thought on gamboa...

Thanks ATN!

Good observation on Donaire's confidence growing! To me it showed in his last fight when he stated he will fight as a southpaw, the fact he fought the first 6 rounds as a southpaw and did ok, but switched to orthodox and got his opponent out of there. That on it's own shows a lot of faith in what you posses as the more I watch Donaire the more I'm impressed with this guys skills and composure. Maybe it's not so much him is improving in particular areas but more so maturing as a fighter hence the confidence you mentioned which showed last night.

As for Gamboa, I am expecting big things from him, unless his chin or maybe discipline ruins that. He has skills, crazy reflexes, speed, power, athletic, calm and shown patience early in his career. I hope he can control what he has, cuz this dude is filled with talent!

Before:




After:

Looks like he had a slight dent northeast of his side burn in the "before" pic... but certainly a hell of a crater in the "after" shot. Damn.

Sorry, Slim...I didn't give Mayweather any credit when he took him out...so why would I give any to Pacquiao.....Hatton didn't belong or deserve to be in the same arena with those two...

He was nothin' but a fat, ripe cherry to them.




Yeah...that pretty much answers MMM's and Sal's inquiry to my comment...there's HUGE qualifiers and looming suspicions that can not be ignored....

Mmmm...catchweights?

Or guys that had their career pounded out of them prior via brutal stoppage.

"I feel sad because I know the expectations that everybody had for me in the fight. I had a great camp and I felt great but in the end things did not go as I had expected. It hurts my pride because I know that it was a single punch that ended the fight. I'm fine, but yes, I've never been hurt like that before."

Fernando Montiel.

I still like that guy a lot, hopefully he can come back and give us more great fights!

That was the type of KO shot that could change things for Montiel. Only way to know for sure is see how he handles big shots in his future fights. Let's hope the dent to his temple goes away too.

True bbs! Time will tell...another I hope ain't damaged is Paul Williams!

Yup. At least neither took a sustained beating and were just taken out with 1 shot... but they were SERIOUS single shots.

I feel bad for him cause you could tell how bad he wanted it by being able to make it up. But im sure he'll be back i'll favor Montiel over any other 118lber.

No excuses, no bullshit. I like this guy.

Hopefully he wasn't Roy Jones'd