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Full Version: Is anone watching the Alvarez vs Hatton salughter on HBO next week?
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BlueMercury
*slaughter
James Kirkland, Daniel Jacobs, George Groves, and Frankie Gomez will all be on the under card. Also a match featuring (co main event) Daniel Ponce De Leon vs the undefeated Adrian 'The Problem' Bronner. Will any of you shell out the bucks to pay for the fight? Or just wait for a stream nono.gif

KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Ugh, I think this is on HBO next week. Unless you're residing in another country besides US, this will be available for "free" on HBO BAD. I don't think many sane people would buy this, especially with three other PPV shows coming up in the next 2 months. Oscar will literally shit his pants if Hatton pulls the upset though.
kidbazooka1
This is not PPV it's gonna be regular HBO.

DeLeon vs Bronner should be a good fight too i've been hearing good things about Bronner but Deleon has been on a pretty good win streak since losing to JuanMa.
BlueMercury
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Feb 27 2011, 03:31 PM) *
This is not PPV it's gonna be regular HBO.

DeLeon vs Bronner should be a good fight too i've been hearing good things about Bronner but Deleon has been on a pretty good win streak since losing to JuanMa.


Oh shit my bad ur right...damn black eye.gif
Jack 1000
Yup HBO next weekend. Looks like a horrible mismatch! I hate to say this, but I think the Strikeforce card is gonna be better on Showtime, also next Saturday.

Jack
Maxy
This fight ain't even on in England unless something has changed in the last day. Nobody gives Hatton a chance, it's set up nicely for Alvarez to feast on the name Hatton and then move on.

Alvarez TKO 6.
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Mar 1 2011, 10:30 AM) *
Gotta disagree Jack.

Ponce de Leon v Bronner is worth recording StrikeForce in my estimation. Hopefully, they will give us a look at the Kirkland and the Jacobs fights. They are both of interest to me. It looks like Kirkland is getting busy in the right way. I guess he is scheduled to fight again in about a month.

I also think that Hatton will be a decent test for Alvarez. Sure, it doesn't look like much on paper, but Hatton is a seasoned pro that I believe is a bit of a step up for Alvarez. So far, I'm just not as impressed as a lot of people with the redheaded kid. Potential? Certainly, but I think they are bringing him along properly.

Saul may be bigtime in Mexico but he isn't ready to step up against the elite just yet.



i don't know about that Beardo, it's one thing to get a fighter experience against lower quality fighters that are going to bring different styles and strengths to him to make him adapt, currently i think they just want some knockouts for his highlight reel. they're behind him in a big way and sooner or later they're going to drop the franchise tag on him, he's not going to be ready for that. GBP isn't going to have shit when Mayweather is gone and i really think they're going to put him in a bad spot when they try to rush him into the void left by him.

gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Mar 2 2011, 12:53 AM) *
Dude's 35-0 gravy. He aint being rushed into anything, and rightly so. I thought Ndou gave Alvarez a decent workout, and Hatton will do the same (though he may well visit Twitchland).

I think Saul is actually being groomed for a run at middleweight. Angulo would be a nice step up for Alvarez- maybe in Mexico City. but he still has Hatton to deal with, though most have already granted him the walk over.


a big problem is he's faced complete bums up until Cotto's brother so his record is really padded. his tests are designated losers but N'dou had Alvarez visibly frustrated at times when he really shouldn't have been. personally i see him being a guy like Berto, a prospect with a belt. since GBP really isn't going to have anyone in 2 years and he's a marketable guy i see him stepping it up when he's not prepared and losing soundly.

i think the real question is whether or not GBP will put him in with Angulo, Angulo will be over him faster than a border wall.
Snoop
I dunno, isn't the kid only 20 yrs old? I actually think they're bringing him up a bit fast. I think someone mentioned in the other thread that should Alvarez win the WBC strap (which he should), he'll be expected to take on Champion-caliber opponents, something that, IMO, he isn't ready for. It's too bad because I actually think he has quite a bit of potential, but meeting someone like a Cintron or Angulo right now would be a bad move.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Snoop @ Mar 2 2011, 01:38 AM) *
I dunno, isn't the kid only 20 yrs old? I actually think they're bringing him up a bit fast. I think someone mentioned in the other thread that should Alvarez win the WBC strap (which he should), he'll be expected to take on Champion-caliber opponents, something that, IMO, he isn't ready for. It's too bad because I actually think he has quite a bit of potential, but meeting someone like a Cintron or Angulo right now would be a bad move.



Guess what Snoop? I agree!! Ha ha.

With every last word. The dude is so young and although as Beardo has pointed out he's had 35 fights they have mostly been against bum-of-the-month types. But why the rush?

I'll also agree with Beardo he will make a run at MW where maybe his lack of speed won't be such a factor. This will be interesting to see how GBP develop a young talent, not quite from scratch but pretty darn close to it.

I think they'll fuck it up.

Can't wait to see me some Hatton bashing though. Always got time for that, even if it's only a Matthew Hatton beating laugh.gif
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Mar 2 2011, 07:17 AM) *
No rush, but do you want Alvarez to be a JCC jr, or a champion. How many fights has Pac lost? Or JMM? Or Soto? Or SMartinez? Or BHop?

What would constitute fucking it up? Losing his fucking 0?

It is time for The Kid to be kicked out of the nest and into the street. If he gets by Hatton (which he should), Alvarez is ready for the Angulo test. He might not pass it, but it certainly won't ruin him, unless he does not measure up to being a champion. If he lost, he would come back stronger, like those I mentioned above.


The problem I have with him winning a meaningless strap is he's then propelled into tougher contests that he is maybe 12 months away from.

No I don't want to see him in a JJC Jr type situation nor do I want to see him in an Ortiz situation, though I know he's got way bigger balls than Ortiz. Sure a loss won't kill him, Khan is a good example of that, but at his age I also see no reason to throw him to the lions either.

It seems to be one of the 2 extremes lately in boxing, either feed him crap and then throw him to the wolves or keep him protected and never put them in a meaningful fight.

Whatever happened to the days when guys had to have 45+ fights to get a title shot?
JLUVBABY
hbo has this fight on its schedule for saturday night... did it change to ppv?
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Snoop @ Mar 2 2011, 12:38 AM) *
I dunno, isn't the kid only 20 yrs old? I actually think they're bringing him up a bit fast. I think someone mentioned in the other thread that should Alvarez win the WBC strap (which he should), he'll be expected to take on Champion-caliber opponents, something that, IMO, he isn't ready for. It's too bad because I actually think he has quite a bit of potential, but meeting someone like a Cintron or Angulo right now would be a bad move.


i agree with this too... when are these guys gonna learn?... moving these fighters as fast as they are these days helps kill their investment more than it helps them...
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Mar 2 2011, 06:17 AM) *
We are on the same page, gt. Boxing in general has become too much a case of feeding designated losers to marketable guys (or those you hope will become marketable).

But, how does he become prepared? Is JCC jr being brought along properly? Or should it be more like JCC himself?

IMO, The Kid is ready for M Hatton and a meaningless belt. It is kind of ironic that 100% of the people on here think M Hatton has 0 chance, yet most seem to think GBP is (or will be) fucking up Saul's development.

I am not so sure Angulo makes short work of Alvarez. In fact, the more I think about it the more I like that match up. Kind of like chips and salsa. I win.


Alvarez is a cross over talent in Mexico. What I mean by that is that he brings a wider audience with lesser expectations to the table. IOW, he can get away with not fighting championship caliber comp (easier than Berto, for example).

That said, I lean more towards feeling that it is time to truly test The Kid's mettle (if he gets by Hatton). IMO, fighting Angulo, even if he lost in a firefight, would be better for Alvarez than continuing to treat fights like sparring sessions.

Why would it be a bad move? The Kid has experience beyond his years. I think over protection of the 0 is a worse move.

Let The Kid fight.


No rush, but do you want Alvarez to be a JCC jr, or a champion. How many fights has Pac lost? Or JMM? Or Soto? Or SMartinez? Or BHop?

What would constitute fucking it up? Losing his fucking 0?

It is time for The Kid to be kicked out of the nest and into the street. If he gets by Hatton (which he should), Alvarez is ready for the Angulo test. He might not pass it, but it certainly won't ruin him, unless he does not measure up to being a champion. If he lost, he would come back stronger, like those I mentioned above.


same way you bring along athletes in any sport; a good teacher, hard work, and increases in quality of opposition.

the big problem is that GBP isn't trying to bring him along, they want somebody right now. Alvarez isn't ready for elite opposition yet.

QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Mar 2 2011, 06:50 AM) *
Those days never existed in our lifetimes, Ollie.

Nothing against it, but if a fighter was felt to be of truly high caliber they usually got/get their shot somewhere in their first 30 fights. Off the top of my head, Duran, Benitez, Camacho, Leonard, all got their shots before their 30th fight. the list is very, very long and goes waaay back.

That does not mean that it is right for Alvarez. But I think it is time for him to step up, not to the elite, but definitely to the Angulo level, within the next 12 months.

One of the reasons most get their shot at a title early on is the proliferation of belts. If not for that, you would see far more fighters waiting until later to get their so called shot.


they also paid their dues to get that title shot and would be fighting tough opposition around their 18th-20th fight, Alvarez hasn't even faced a top 10 opponent yet and he's about to get a shot at the "real" WBC title.

QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Mar 2 2011, 06:22 PM) *
i agree with this too... when are these guys gonna learn?... moving these fighters as fast as they are these days helps kill their investment more than it helps them...


i don't think they want to learn when they can become a champion fighting B and C level opponents, someone like Berto is making nice money for what he's doing too.

QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Mar 2 2011, 06:21 PM) *
hbo has this fight on its schedule for saturday night... did it change to ppv?


i really hope not, that would be a huge mistake for HBO.
and the NEW
Alvarez is definately going to feast on Hatton. I probably won't bother watching it.
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Mar 2 2011, 08:37 PM) *
I don't get it. Maybe GBP will fuck it up in the future, but I think that they have given Alvarez a good teacher. He has worked hard. GBP has increased his level of competition.

Everybody is talking shit about M Hatton, but he is certainly an increase in quality of opposition, no matter how small.




Certainly the WBC title should not be involved with the outcome of this fight, but don't kid yourself that somehow everyone had paid their dues of the fighters I named above. Take a closer look.

I suppose I don't consider Angulo and Cintron elite level. I'm not saying that Alvarez should be fighting either in his next fight. I am saying that he should be fighting 3 more times this year with his 4th fight possibly being at the Angulo level, and if not then his 1st fight next year.

I don't get the incessant hand wringing over this kid. If the Mexicans don't watch it, their fighters are going to start getting branded prima donas.


How big of a jump up from Jose Cotto is Matthew Hatton? personally i don't think Reynoso really took advantage of the time he's had with Alvarez, 5 years and 35 fights but when a fighter uses some defense and wont just slug it out he's frustrated? he's still largely a 1 handed fighter. either Alvarez is adjusting to actually having a quality of opposition or Reynoso just put him in the ring and didn't care.

at 35 fights all of those fighters had at least faced 1 if not multiple genuine challenges in their career. SRL was facing similar quality of opp Canelo is facing right now when he was 13-0.
Fitz
But Leonard was able to move up faster, he had an amateur career an olympic gold medallist and had that up bringing.

Surely the same cannot be said for Alvarez, when he is 20, no amateur career (I'm guessing). He is pretty much learning now, so you can't expect guys to move up at the same pace when one has had an amateur career and the other hasn't.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Fitz @ Mar 2 2011, 10:12 PM) *
But Leonard was able to move up faster, he had an amateur career an olympic gold medallist and had that up bringing.

Surely the same cannot be said for Alvarez, when he is 20, no amateur career (I'm guessing). He is pretty much learning now, so you can't expect guys to move up at the same pace when one has had an amateur career and the other hasn't.


i didn't make the decision to use Leonard as an example lol.



dhoward126
I think Matty Hatton has enough skill to take some of that luster off of Canelo tbh, but Alvarez is heavy-handed like a mother fucker and it's inevitable that he's going to tag Hatton. We'll have to see if he ends up earning that belt by fighting champion caliber fighters should he win or he turns into an Andre Berto and just keeps fighting the bum$$$.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Fitz @ Mar 2 2011, 10:12 PM) *
But Leonard was able to move up faster, he had an amateur career an olympic gold medallist and had that up bringing.

Surely the same cannot be said for Alvarez, when he is 20, no amateur career (I'm guessing). He is pretty much learning now, so you can't expect guys to move up at the same pace when one has had an amateur career and the other hasn't.



That's the point I was meaning to make but missed on. Don't underestimate the value of a decent amateur career in setting a guy up for the pro ranks. this kid is literally learning on the job, where is the harm in giving him another 12-18 months to properly marinate?
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Fitz @ Mar 2 2011, 09:12 PM) *
But Leonard was able to move up faster, he had an amateur career an olympic gold medallist and had that up bringing.

Surely the same cannot be said for Alvarez, when he is 20, no amateur career (I'm guessing). He is pretty much learning now, so you can't expect guys to move up at the same pace when one has had an amateur career and the other hasn't.


you said it young fitzgerald.... there is no comparison between leonard and alvarez.. there is no comparison between benitez and alvarez.... alverez is good but he is being moved too fast... it would be nice to see how he fares against the angulos or in a few fights a kirkland... these young fighters arent getting the test before they get title shots these days...
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Maxy @ Mar 1 2011, 10:51 AM) *
This fight ain't even on in England unless something has changed in the last day. Nobody gives Hatton a chance, it's set up nicely for Alvarez to feast on the name Hatton and then move on.

Alvarez TKO 6.



That's what keeps going through my head. Oscar will shit Twinkies if Hatton wins! laugh.gif

Jack
Jack 1000
Some people confused with the topic. Will change to reflect its an HBO fight.

Jack
gravytrain
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Mar 3 2011, 12:26 AM) *
That's what keeps going through my head. Oscar will shit Twinkies if Hatton wins! laugh.gif

Jack


he might have to put the fishnets back on and work the Vegas strip.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Mar 3 2011, 06:07 AM) *
gt, that is some nightmare material. No shit, I just woke up from a Vegas nightmare with De La Ho ya passing by on The Strip. Frickin hilarious shit.



LMFAO! laugh.gif

Jack
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Mar 3 2011, 12:34 AM) *
Really?

Benitez won his first world championship at the age of 18 in his 25th or 26th professional fight.

Everybody keeps bellyaching about how GBP is moving Alvarez too fast on one hand while criticizing the M Hatton fight as a mismatch on the other. Just because one of the many belts is involved does not constitute moving Alvarez too fast. It is time for Alvarez to step it up. You all are acting like a bunch of fucking mother hens over protecting a hatchling.

I do not disagree with the amateur experience aspect of the argument, but it only goes so far. Fine, run from Angulo if you like. How bout we put the two Mexican prima donas in the ring . . . and then there will be one. You know who I'm talkin about.


i think that's the problem, GBP is putting a lot into Alvarez but not really building him up. he went from fighting complete nobodies and will most likely be a champion despite only having fought a C level opponent. what happens when he actually has to step it up one day and he's just had an easy road to success? he's going to have a rough night and it most likely wont be pretty.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 3 2011, 02:20 PM) *
i think that's the problem, GBP is putting a lot into Alvarez but not really building him up. he went from fighting complete nobodies and will most likely be a champion despite only having fought a C level opponent. what happens when he actually has to step it up one day and he's just had an easy road to success? he's going to have a rough night and it most likely wont be pretty.


it wont be pretty... you cant learn on the job once you get a belt... the public (fans) dont allow it... see david reid and jermain taylor... if you are man enough to fight for a belt, even if its a paper champion like some belt holders posess, people want to see these guys take on top flight comp... not learn on the job, like i've seen some on this site seem to feel is ok... lol...
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Alvarez could be the goods though, and the future star of Golden Boy. It's really hard to say until he gets in there against solid opposition. He was almost knocked out by Jose Cotto though, so who knows. 154 is stacked, and I don't see him beating fighters like Paul Williams, Sergio Martinez, Alfredo Angulo, or even James Kirkland. However, he may get his shot soon.

I'm looking forward to the undercard. Adrien Broner is the goods and is going to be the future p4p king imo. This guy is so fast, and has great reflexes. He also has a great jab and shoots out crisp counters when an opponent pressures. Ponce De Leon is going to taste canvas early in this fight, and will be stopped. Ponce has no shot to win tonight, and HBO will be sucking Adrien Broner off by the end of the night. This fight will be a mismatch, but will be fun to watch.
maac
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