On the recent Internet rumors that Haye may be negotiating with the Klitschkos again, my response is the following:

it seems that Haye and the Klitschkos are trying to break the posturing hype....hype....on again...off again....now on again fight about as bad as Pacquiao-Mayweather with the longest negotiation record and still no fight that the fans deserve to see.

It's bad enough that these "superstars" only fight once to twice a year, TOPS! Millions of people are so sick of the waiting game and the big fights don't happen often enough because of it.

Boxing SHOULD be more like MMA in it's big fight scheduling. The big names should be fighting every 4 months. Keep fighting, building up fans and exposure. By the time these stars fight in 1-2 year increments, you don't even know who's champion anymore and what bets go with what fighters.

The fans are sick of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" in boxing. Me too. Until these fights are like a week away till the time I see them in the ring, it's getting to the point where I don't believe it seriously, until the weigh-in. That's how fucked up this waiting game has become.

Jack

With you there Jack!

Although with all the injuries in MMA, particularly the UFC, you don't get that many fights for the top guys!

At least they all fight eachother though and you don't get a cold war between two giant promotions!

i may be wrong when i say this but when people speak on mma they are really talking or meaning ufc... not saying thats you just in general public... with that being said... dana white only has X amount of fights that are legit superfights... and one fight that is on the level of a pac vs. mayweather... and that is pierre vs silva... i want to see that one as im sure most everyone else does as well.... that aside there are several huge fights to be made in boxing and the reason we dont see them is cuzz of an old fart by the name of bob arum who doesnt see past pride and ego no matter the amount of money to make fights happen... there are fights we dont see happen that should within his stable... i honestly believe once he is gone and the smaller promoters like dibella and shaw and the rest can compete again with the likes of gbp.... we will start seeing a lot more major fights... i just say that to say that mma (ufc) while had the right concept really blew its wad... they only have X amount of fights left where boxing has damn near an infinite amount of fights that can be made... only thing in my opinion boxing is missing is dealing with the larger promoters a promoter damn near has to sell his fighter to a guy like arum to get the big fights made... once he's gone and promoters can negotiate a fight like they used to with no strings attatched or losing their fighter in the process then we will see some very major fights made in my opinion...

i think a lot of fans talk about being tired of the boxing bullshit but don't do anything. if the almighty dollar tells the promoters to act differently the same shit wont just keep happening. unless the unthinkable happens and some fighters come around that truly want a good legacy and are willing to fight top opposition multiple times a year it's not going to happen.

I'm not sure what the complaint is because truth be told, boxing has been kicking MMA's ass lately when it comes to fights. I don't know how many UFC cards you watch, but honestly, a lot of the recent ones have sucked ass. Strikeforce has been putting on some great shows lately though...I'll give them that...but like someone else pointed out, most of the top names in MMA only fight about twice a year too.

Heavyweight Champ Cain Velasquez - fought 2 times in 2010
Light Heavyweight Champ Mauricio Shogun Rua - fought 1 time in 2010
Middleweight Champ Anderson Silva - fought 2 times in 2010
Welterweight Champ GSP - fought 2 times in 2010
Lightweight Champ Frankie Edgar - fought 2 times in 2010

Even former Heavyweight Champ Brock Lesnar only fought 2 times in 2010.

And actually, the "cold war" between promotional companies that someone spoke of in boxing also exists in MMA as well. Top Rank vs. Golden Boy is no different than UFC vs. Strikeforce...two different promotional companies not willing to put the best fights together.

The point is, the same problems that people complain about in boxing also exist in MMA. Actually, they're far worse in MMA because one man, Dana White, is the cause of the majority of the problems. At least in boxing, there's a ton of different people that share the blame, which is understandable when that many people are involved. I mean, I can understand why it's difficult to get Mayweather vs. Pacquiao done because you have to please Mayweather, Pacquiao, Arum, Haymon, HBO...that's a lot of people that need to hammer things out. However, in the case of GSP vs. Silva, there's no reason why that fight can't be made right now! Silva wants it, GSP wants it, and the only person who has to approve it is Dana White...and yet, for some reason, MMA fans can't get the biggest fight in the sport? WTF?

I'm sorry to disagree, but boxing is WAAAAAY better off than MMA is when it comes to its fight scheduling.

the Super Six has been one of the best things to happen recently, it put the top guys at 168 in the ring and they're all fighting each other. then since Showtime got a deal with Bute the winner of the tournament and Bute will most likely fight so Showtime really did clean out a division and make it possible to have a real champion. it's not happening in any other divisions.

If that fight isnt made i would think its because dana white knows thats his only true superfight... lol... thats really it... it has to be coming that he will have to start cross promoting... like you said strike force has been on a roll and argubally has the strongest heavyweight division so with that being said... people have got to start getting tired of ordering the same fights over and over cuzz thats what i see them on the verge of having to do... lol... i stopped ordering ufc ppvs after the evans vs rampage ppv... that fight was pathetic...

what's going on at 140, the top fighters are actually fighting each other? Khan and Bradley aren't even guaranteed to fight and Maidana and Alexander are just going to be written off. the single elim is nice but it hasn't got the interest nationally and internationally that the SS has got. Pavlik and Williams didn't fight and Martinez vs Williams is just one fight, neither will be taking out the top 6 opponents of their division any time soon.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, SMartinez fought PWill, then Pavlik, then PWill again. Those 3 fights have been more interesting than the entire overrated Super Six up until now, IMO.

But you disagree. Fine. The (FIFA format) Super Six is so utterly stale that I have no interest in debating it yet again.

Good points!

How many of you were surprised that in the text messaging poll for Showtime's last boxing telecast, the fans preferred the Round Robin tournament over the single-elimination format? I myself like the single-elimination format better. The scheduling is quicker and the matches are easier to follow. Too much crap can happen in-between the Super Six fights. Most people today don't have the attention span to wait for two years, when so many things can go wrong.

It's not Showtime's fault though. Kudos for them trying to get the best fighting the best, which is supposed to be what these tournaments are all about. It's just the time frame in a Round Robin type format for the Super Six that is too long.

Jack

. . . I keep trying to get out, but it just . . . keeps . . . pulling me . . . back . . . in.

Text messaging polls are organically corrupt. It was designed to get a self serving result, and as a tertiary income stream.

It is not "just the time frame" that is wrong with using a FIFA World Cup format in boxing. There is a very good possibility that the best will never end up fighting each other with this utterly retarded format, as it pertains to boxing. Futbol enthusiasts may be interested in watching Brazil play for a tie in order to position itself most opportunely in the knockout round, but professional boxers are not kicking a ball around the ring. They are attempting to inflict maximum damage on each other.

The fact that Andre Ward (3-0) must contractually fight Arthur Abraham (1-2) in the knockout round of a boxing tournament is nothing more or less than mentally challenged. Meanwhile, Froch is facing a replacement in the knockout round who qualified by defeating another replacement.

This shit is two scoops short of asinine. Stop with "the best fighting the best" fecal matter. The jury is still out on whether this tournament was indeed better than nothing.

And BTW, stop trying to absolve Showtime in this quagmire. From the beginning this was designed to maximize profit. And from the beginning they fucked it up, from the format itself to the scheduling. Greed, not good business sense or altruism, guided Showtime's decisions. Showtime is only guilty of the corrupt and inferior business model that has guided the American economy and culture into the rocks.

the super 6 style of tournament seems to clog up the division too long... single man elimination like what strike force is doing with the bantamweights suits me just fine... then those guys can meet up after its over... on the flip side tho... would a guy like aa be undefeated still without that type of format?... it can go both ways... if the money they are making is so great maybe weight divisions can become everlasting tourneys.. lol... as one guy gets knocked off the guy doing the upset enters for a chance to move up the rankings... lol.. i dont know.. the super 6 clogged uthings up for way too long in my opinion tho... ifyou gonna do it loose you out... single man tourneys is the way to go....

Well compared to the UFC, I wouldn't call SF a giant promotion. It is hardly like the size of either TopRank or GBP in boxing.

You have a few good fighters, who could perhaps compete in the UFC divisions, but probably none would hold titles.

Melendez, Jacare, Mousasi and Reem are probably the only 4 who could do well in their respective divisions in UFC.

Nick Diaz would be massacred by the wrestling base in UFCs WW division, the LHW division in SF is competitive, but when you have Hendo going there and taking the crown, you know their level. And the HWs are definately overrated in SF, none would compete with a JDS or Velasquez except perhaps Reem and even he is more speculation than anything else at this point. K1 isn't exactly that great level striking and he has extremelly poor defence and next to zero names on his resume for a long long time.

Interesting points, although I think your comparison of StrikeForce to the UFC could be applied to GBP v TopRank. There will always be a dominant player in business. That dominant player is only kept honest by the hungry competitors for market share. Less competition is worse for the fan/consumer and the employees/athletes. Consolidation or monopoly is unhealthy for an industry, an economy, and humanity.

BTW, nobody thought the AFL could compete with the NFL either. The merger was only healthy in so far as the competition was fostered between the divisions and the conferences. The same goes for Major League Baseball.

Furthermore, the only reason that the NFL/MLB model works is that they are competing with each other (as well as other sports), along with every other form of entertainment for market share.

Maybe Arthur Abraham would still be undefeated if not for The (decaying corpse) Super Six. If he was it would be in the Middleweight Division where he belongs. SMartinez would probably be facing off against him in a semi-super fight next weekend (not that Dzinzurik is a walk over).

maybe... just saying the super 6 did get some guys together that probably would not have fought otherwise... its produced some good fights my main problem is it has kept good fighters locked in and away from the butes of the division... we need to see lucian bute vs a ward or froch soon..

JLUV, JLUV, JLUV . . . that's like saying "the bitch cut my balls off, but at least she sucked my dick first."

Bute v Froch or Ward aint happening until after the world is supposed to end. Bitch is supposed to milk your balls while she's sucking your dick, man.

why dont you think bute vs froch or ward happens after the super 6 is complete?... they will all need big fights... and its not like they fight for on a different network... maybe im missing something.. i dont see promotional issues... bute vs the winner is very likely as i thought thats what showtime was shooting for....

Sure, it might happen in 2012, but isn't the world supposed to end by then? Last I heard it is sometime around May 7.

Assuming that Ward gets through AA, and Froch defeats the replacement of a replacement that defeated a replacement to qualify for this stupendous event called The Knockout Round, then we are looking at late this year for Froch v Ward, which means that the Bute v Froch or Ward fight is a year away minimum, if every single thing goes as assumed.

JLUV, that fight should be happening right the fuck now. OthefuckK, we got some decent matchups. Wave the white flag on this flawed motherfucker, send AA and the replacement on their way (or have them fight each other) and get Froch in there with Ward now. Bute v the winner in the Fall.

i agree... but fact is thats not its set up... lol....

on a side note i think the mayan calander ends next year huh?... lol... whats your thoughts on that? did they know something we didnt?... hey beardo?... (hint hint... story time!!!)

You know I always oblige, but I already gave up a little story yesterday on the Where Did Everybody Go thread.

BTW, how do you think Battle Los Angeles will be?

On the Mayan Calendar subject, I think they figured (correctly) that their civilization would be gone or more highly evolved by now (or they just got bored with the project or ran out of space on the stone).

Oh, and I read something awhile ago that their math was off (or our interpretation of the calendar) and its all over just prior to The Organ Grinders Monkey v The Flinch. Apropo.

give me a year that the top 6 fighters in a division all agreed to fight each other within a 2 year span.

What people agree to and what becomes reality often differs. Besides, it wasn't the top 6 and they aren't fighting each other. What we have are 2 of the top 3. One fighting a over matched middleweight. The other facing a replacement who defeated a replacement to qualify for the finals.

Look gt, you like what is going on with The (rotting fish) Super Six, and that's cool. I don't. The thing I most dislike is the format itself. It should never, under any circumstances be allowed to stink up boxing again, IMO.

That is all . . . and it is all good.

who was?

Bute.

i agree...

I could deal with a "super six" format if it was all done in 2 days, not over a year span with cancellations and all the other BS. Have it set up like a wrestling or amateur boxing format/tournament, or round robin style. Just have the professionals fight 6 round fights(7 for a tie breaker). Pro fighters would be able to throw more punches and be more intense cause of the shorter fights, and would spare us long 12 round borefests. PLUS we would get to see many great match-ups all in one weekend. And your paycheck would be determined by what place you get, not the corrupt way it is done usually.

Yeah I know it will never happen, not with the fighters we have today.

I'd like to see an american prizefighter put on national television... that would be sweet... with the winner getting a regional title shot on the same channel...

UFC basically uses the wwe format (scheduling of their shows) minus the pyros to keep their crowd strong. Sort of force feed to the public via versus, spike and PPV shows similar to WWE and their raw, smackdown , NXT and PPV's ..keep em satisfied approach.

Boxing is all over and not consolidated imo. Unless you follow FNF, showbox, hbo boxing...etc you'd think the only boxing available today is on PPV's

Need one source to get the message out. Like a UFC or WWE does for their shows on multiple channels. Boxing is live and well....just not marketed like the old days to the public..too many hands in the pockets now with no organization at all.

Jluv are you high? MMA has enough of a talent pool even when there are no superfights going on, then there are enough fights to get the public excited enough to watch.

Lesner v/s Cain......superfight
gsp v/s shields.......superfight
gsp v/s silva...........superfight
gray maynard v/s edgar 3...superfight
BJ penn v/s anyone..... even in his losses he puts asses in seats
Nick Diaz v/s anyone......he is the ricardo Mayorga of MMA, just more talented
the whole Strikeforce heavyweight division!!! every fight is ppv worthy
lesner v/s dos santos....superfight
jon jones v/s shogun.....superfight
sonnen v/s silva 2.....superfight


Mma is stacked with superfights, made and to be made.

Good points, The Round Robin format of the Super Six sometimes forces loser of a previous fight to fight other losers of a previous fight, even if they have lost..........BADLEY! Signle elimination doesn't do that. When you lose, your out.

Jack

Superfights are Ali v Frazier Mayweather v Pacquaio SRL v Hagler De La Hoya v Trinidad, Events that are demanded by the mainstream public not hardcore fans

i don't know why you guys want a tournament to be done in 2 days. with the SS you get 2 years of good SMW fights and with a single elim you get 2 months. the only mistake Showtime made was letting the promoters be so involved but i doubt they'd a choice in that, cancellations and poor performances can't really be blamed on the format itself since the same shit happens outside of the SS.



i really doubt he would have joined it at the time it's announced.

gsp vs silva is the only fight dana white and his ufc has that will attract casual fans to buy its ufc.... that is a legit superfight... im not even gonna get into all the fights you listed... i will say they are good fights to die hard ufc fans... i do have an opinion for each fight you listed but its not worth it... they are not superfights.. only gsp vs silva rates as one...

Fine. Make it an 8 man double elimination, where the winner of the loser's bracket gets a shot at the winner's bracket champ. The winner's bracket champ would have a total of 4 fights. The loser's bracket champ would have a total of 5 or 6 fights. The Winner's bracket champ would fight 3 winners in a row before facing the loser's bracket champ who would either be a rematch with the winners bracket championship loser or a fighter that has earned his way there by building a 4-1 record.

4 fights the first round on the same card. 4 fights the second round on the same card. 2 fights the third round. 2 fights the 4th round. 1 fight between the loser of the winners bracket championship and the winner of the loser's bracket semi. The Championship fight.

Now that I've lost you all. Simple 4 man or 8 man single elim tournies are quick and clean and would lead to secondary fights between those eliminated. After they are done, you do it again when applicable.


You might be right but I was just answering your question.

Honestly, there is no reason to continue beating this dead dog. If you really think round robin tournaments are a good fit for boxing after witnessing this slow motion train wreck, there is nothing that anyone can say to convince you otherwise. None of this bullshit was necessary to get the best to fight the best.

One last try. If this was battle to the death, like say a duel with swords, there would be no "yeah Ward killed Kessler, but let's give Kessler a chance against Froch." Dude lost. He's dead. Its over. Move on to the next duel between the winners, who are still alive.

that's the problem with boxing, the top 5 guys are always waiting for one guy to lose so they can just say "he lost, it's not worth it to fight him". then in the mean time they take worthless fights instead of making fights fans want to see.

this wouldn't have happened without obligations, we'd probably just now be seeing a Ward/Kessler like fight. there are a lot of slow train wrecks in boxing outside of tournaments, it's not exclusive to the super six.

We just disagree then, there is only one superfight in boxing to be made and it not gonna happen

you may be right... but there are for more better fights to be made in boxing than in mma (not just ufc but mma)... matter of fact strikeforce probably has the best heavyweight fighting over there but we'll never know cuzz dana white refuses to play ball with other organizations... we can go back and fourth on this but i can tell you the sport of boxing will be here long after the ufc has gone under... mma will be here as it has for centuries but boxing will be here long after ufc and its cronies that keep all the money are long gone...

I don't disagree with any of that. My only problems are with the format and scheduling of the tournament. This dog is dead. Abraham should be fighting SMartinez this weekend. Froch should be fighting Ward. Bute's days should be numbered in less digits.

I was thinking this the other day. Eight man elimination, the four quarter final winners go into the semi finals, the four quarter final losers fight off.

Then the semi final losers fight off alongside the quarter final losers and then the finals etc.

This way you get a 1st all the way to 8th place in the tournament, not just one loss and out. Although I'd imagine, as is always the case in boxing (and it happened in the Super Six), when a fighter loses he takes his ball and goes to play somewhere else, which means you'd have to keep bringing in replacements for the loser fights.



Black