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Full Version: Early Assesments of Both V./W. Klitschko's Chances Against David Haye
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Jack 1000
Haye has a better chance against Wlad than he has against Vitali because Vitali has the suspect chin. I think Wlad has the bigger heart and balls.

Haye has a worse chance against Vitali. Vitali has a better chin, but less heart and smaller balls. Transition here, if you can break him down with pressure into the later rounds were he can't use his size and jab anymore, you can beat him. But here is the problem with Haye vs. Vitali. Haye doesn't have the size or been proven to carry his punch up at heavyweight, where he has shown he can be effective in the later rounds.

It's almost like because of Haye's size against either Klitschko, the longer it goes, the worse for David it is. If Haye's Haymakers don't hurt the Klits early, it's going to be a long night for David.

Jack
JD
Wlad wins
Vitali wins
D-MARV
Haye TKO2 Wlad
Haye UD Vitali, 118-110
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Mar 9 2011, 05:00 PM) *
Haye UD Vitali, 118-110


Hummm. What makes you think Haye wins 10 rounds against Vitali? I don't think Vitali has ever lost more than 2-3 rounds in a fight.

The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Mar 9 2011, 03:53 PM) *
Haye has a better chance against Wlad than he has against Vitali because Vitali has the suspect chin. I think Wlad has the bigger heart and balls.

Haye has a worse chance against Vitali. Vitali has a better chin, but less heart and smaller balls. Transition here, if you can break him down with pressure into the later rounds were he can't use his size and jab anymore, you can beat him. But here is the problem with Haye vs. Vitali. Haye doesn't have the size or been proven to carry his punch up at heavyweight, where he has shown he can be effective in the later rounds.

It's almost like because of Haye's size against either Klitschko, the longer it goes, the worse for David it is. If Haye's Haymakers don't hurt the Klits early, it's going to be a long night for David.

Jack


Jack is so wound up by the prospect of this fight he can't decide whom has the better chin Vitali or Vitali laugh.gif

He is clear though on who has the bigger balls, Wlad. Maybe that's a question for Hayden, LOL.

I'm curious though Jack as to why you think Wlad has more heart? I've seen Wlad crumble a couple of times against sub par opposition and I thought Vitali showed great heart in his fight against Lennox although I guess he does have that nasty quit against Byrd which is a bit of a no no.

Either way whichever Klit by way of brutal sustained beatdown.
Jack 1000
The quit against Byrd is imo a bigger no-no than you have made it out to be I think. Yes, Vitali against Lewis was great. Best (and last) time he went to war against somebody. Do you think we will see a "Go to War" Vitali again? What about a war fight situation for Wlad?

Jack
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Mar 9 2011, 11:00 PM) *
The quit against Byrd is imo a bigger no-no than you have made it out to be I think. Yes, Vitali against Lewis was great. Best (and last) time he went to war against somebody. Do you think we will see a "Go to War" Vitali again? What about a war fight situation for Wlad?

Jack


Vitali hasn't been to war again because he hasn't needed to. I don't see this changing against Haye.
SmartyBeardo
Both Sisters should be able to beat Haye soundly. However, I hope Haye can KO Sister Wlad and make a decent fight (at least) with Sister Vitali.
Warlord
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Mar 9 2011, 03:53 PM) *
Haye has a better chance against Wlad than he has against Vitali because Vitali has the suspect chin. I think Wlad has the bigger heart and balls.


Post sober next time, Jack. Winning.
Warlord
QUOTE (JD @ Mar 9 2011, 04:01 PM) *
Wlad wins
Vitali wins

This.

A clear sign of sobriety. Are you paying attention, Jack?
PR316
Either Klitschko rapes Haye.

I'm still skeptical that Haye will even step in the ring with Wlad.
Warlord
QUOTE (PR316 @ Mar 10 2011, 01:51 AM) *
Either Klitschko rapes Haye.

I'm still skeptical that Haye will even step in the ring with Wlad.

I'm with you. I'm still doubting that Haye finds enough sack to go through with this. He'll get hurt or get "offended" somehow before this fight ever comes off.
Fitz
Haye will get in the ring, he will freeze, not let his hands go. I can see him putting a really poor performance where he will look like most of the other opponents, and just waits and not try go after the win, and in process will get a beat down. I seen Haye already become a little gun shy with Valuev and Harrison. It won't get better against Wlad.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Warlord @ Mar 9 2011, 11:20 PM) *
This.

A clear sign of sobriety. Are you paying attention, Jack?


LOL!!! OK Warlord,

But has everyone forgotten about Corrie Sanders who broke Wlad in half? Haye has to be given some credit for at least having the punch that could send shock waves through the Klits. But he better do it early. The brothers are not used to having a fighter apply pressure to them for a very long time.

I don't think a suspect chin on a boxer turns into a rock solid one. And David may be a natural cruiser, but he is still a hard hitting Cruiser.

Now if Haye fights disinterested where he is all mouth and no fight, this could easily be a one-sided Klitchkos beat down. (Yes, both of them.) I would rip right into the Klits. Give them things to think about early and often. Because if you let the brothers find their jab and plodding with the powerful overhand rights that they can throw and they get that rhythm going, you can't stop that in the later rounds, at least Haye can't. Wlad's chin can be hit. So can Vitali's. But Vitali seems more recoverable. Not so much with Wlad.

A key to these fights for Haye is timing. You cannot let either brother find a pattern. Because their winning pattern only gets better as the fight goes on. I think David needs to pressure them early and get them into a fight. If he does, we will NOT be seeing the typical robotic jab and move methodically as the fight goes on. We will see what we have not seen in years, A Klitschko firefight. And I think this is what the fans and HBO want so badly.

Jack
SENTRAL
I change my mind a lot on this subject regarding who is the more difficult fight for David Haye.  Right now Wlad is the harder fight.  Vitali is slower and more predictable and IF he gets by Solis and meets Haye he loses the fight.  Wlad causes more problems, he is closer to his prime but he hasn't faced a quick puncher like Haye for sometime.  His cautiousness leads to his downfall.
D-MARV
QUOTE (BrutalBodyShots @ Mar 9 2011, 06:45 PM) *
Hummm. What makes you think Haye wins 10 rounds against Vitali? I don't think Vitali has ever lost more than 2-3 rounds in a fight.

Brutal, the athletic gap between the two is glaring. Haye has the quicker feet, quicker hands, more explosive, and in my opinion, hits harder than Vitali. I give Vitali credit for being tough and maybe Haye shows up and puts on another "Kevin Johnson" performance... I doubt it though. I think Haye boxes smart, throws some flurries, and uses his lateral movement to offset anything Vitali tries to do. Vitali has not been in his prime since he made his return.
Warlord
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Mar 10 2011, 07:01 AM) *
LOL!!! OK Warlord,

But has everyone forgotten about Corrie Sanders who broke Wlad in half? Haye has to be given some credit for at least having the punch that could send shock waves through the Klits. But he better do it early. The brothers are not used to having a fighter apply pressure to them for a very long time.

I don't think a suspect chin on a boxer turns into a rock solid one. And David may be a natural cruiser, but he is still a hard hitting Cruiser.

Now if Haye fights disinterested where he is all mouth and no fight, this could easily be a one-sided Klitchkos beat down. (Yes, both of them.) I would rip right into the Klits. Give them things to think about early and often. Because if you let the brothers find their jab and plodding with the powerful overhand rights that they can throw and they get that rhythm going, you can't stop that in the later rounds, at least Haye can't. Wlad's chin can be hit. So can Vitali's. But Vitali seems more recoverable. Not so much with Wlad.

A key to these fights for Haye is timing. You cannot let either brother find a pattern. Because their winning pattern only gets better as the fight goes on. I think David needs to pressure them early and get them into a fight. If he does, we will NOT be seeing the typical robotic jab and move methodically as the fight goes on. We will see what we have not seen in years, A Klitschko firefight. And I think this is what the fans and HBO want so badly.

Jack

Oh I fully agree Haye could come in guns blazing and catch Wlad with something big. Anyone could. But he won't. It's not like Haye is Mr. Cast Iron himself in the chin department.

He'll do what he's done with every fight at heavyweight. He'll come in and refuse to let his hands go until he's sure he won't get tagged in return. But with Wlad it is too late. Klitchsko opponents historically have shown neither the ability nor the proclivity to throw meaningful punches as the fight wears on. They lapse into survival mode somewhere between rounds 4 and 5 at the most, and usually find themselves spitting teeth sometime between then and the final bell.

What makes you think Haye will be any different?

He has about a 4 round window to make something happen. But it's Haye we're talking about here, so in reality, he has a 2 round window. He couldn't even commit to opening up on Audley fucking Harrison until he had genetic proof expressed to him in between rounds that Audley was indeed a verifiable zombie unable to mount an offense of any kind.

Before that, 2 rounds of jack shit. That might be enough for Klit to get him out, though I doubt it. But it certainly is enough to put Haye in his shell for the duration of the fight. However long it may be.

Wlad TKO7 if it ever happens. Mark it down.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Mar 10 2011, 02:21 PM) *
Brutal, the athletic gap between the two is glaring. Haye has the quicker feet, quicker hands, more explosive, and in my opinion, hits harder than Vitali. I give Vitali credit for being tough and maybe Haye shows up and puts on another "Kevin Johnson" performance... I doubt it though. I think Haye boxes smart, throws some flurries, and uses his lateral movement to offset anything Vitali tries to do. Vitali has not been in his prime since he made his return.


If you say so, lol.
STEVENSKI
I really hope Haye goes guns blazing. If he does that he will get hurt & hurt badly. A early KO would be nice but I would also be just as happy to see a one sided beating where Haye is completely ruined as a fighter.
Warlord
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Mar 10 2011, 06:54 PM) *
I really hope Haye goes guns blazing. If he does that he will get hurt & hurt badly. A early KO would be nice but I would also be just as happy to see a one sided beating where Haye is completely ruined as a fighter.

Haye's lifeless carcass getting tangled up in the ropes before slinking onto the announcer's table like a slick, bloody turd would be the perfect night cap.
Warlord
QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Mar 10 2011, 11:47 AM) *
I change my mind a lot on this subject regarding who is the more difficult fight for David Haye.  Right now Wlad is the harder fight.  Vitali is slower and more predictable and IF he gets by Solis and meets Haye he loses the fight.  Wlad causes more problems, he is closer to his prime but he hasn't faced a quick puncher like Haye for sometime.  His cautiousness leads to his downfall.

You change your mind a lot, but you never come up with the right answer. Every scenario you've envisioned ends with David Haye getting his hand raised in victory. I'm always amazed at the human propensity to reach emotionally based conclusions, and thereafter try to substantiate said conclusions with verifiable, quantifiable fact.

But a living, breathing prophet like myself comes along and delivers truth to your doorstep, and what do you do? What do you do? Truly, Truly I say to you, David Haye will not go 12 rounds with Wladimir Klitchsko.
Romulus9
Vitali wins on a brutal one-sided (potentially 12-0) UD, or a late TKO mercy stoppage.

Wlad stretches Haye with a highlight reel KO, with a shot that's reminiscent of the one he almost killed Chris Byrd with in their second fight... but only after carrying/torturing him for a few rounds a la Ali-Terrell.

Haye has a mouth like Jorge Luis Gonzalez... and a professional resume to match it. Gonzalez ran his mouth about Riddick Bowe for years, got the fight, and was promptly dominated, humbled (temporarily), and steamrolled in what was Riddick's last motivated showing.

Haye can talk big, make semi-clever t-shirts, and knock the head off of cardboard cutouts all he wants. It's a different story when he's actually in there with a pissed off heavyweight champion who wasn't amused by the antics. It's okay. You reap what you sow.

I guess Haye's desire to be "the first black James Bond" will have to go by the wayside because Hollywood has no use for a James Bond that looks like he's been in a farming accident.
PR316
QUOTE (Warlord @ Mar 10 2011, 04:54 AM) *
I'm with you. I'm still doubting that Haye finds enough sack to go through with this. He'll get hurt or get "offended" somehow before this fight ever comes off.


Yeah I'm starting to imagine it now.

There's a big "official" announcement, press conferences and all with alot of shit talking by Haye.

Only problem is that there will be some sort of INJURY that "forces" Haye to retire and not be able to complete his "dream" of beating the Klitschkos. rolleyes_anim.gif
Maxy
I don't believe Haye will pull out of this again. I think the time is right now to do this fight. We have had two years of hype, two years of the 'will it happen won't it happen' bullshit, and now everything is set up to make it the biggest fight it could possibly be.

I keep reading people saying Haye will get beat down in 7-8 rounds but I find it hard to envisage a scenario whereby Haye is being hit hard and still managing to stay in the fight. His training regime consists of short sharp bursts of work so his stamina and durability are simply not efficient enough to allow him to take a sustained beating.

Haye's only chance in this fight is to throw caution to the wind but I genuinely believe he will instead adopt the tactics he used against Valuev. He broke his right hand in the Valuev fight and used that as the reason for his cautiousness but if he attempts similar tactics against Wlad he will either lose a dull uncompetitive decision or walk onto a combination which renders him unconscious.

His only defeat was due to punching himself out. That may happen if he jumps on Wlad and doesn't get him out of there. He has always readily admitted to being chinny. We all know this, Wlad of course knows this too. As a finisher I've been unimpressed, especially since the move up in weight. Does he hit as hard as some of us, me included, once thought? No, I don't think he does but even when he gets an opponent in trouble he isn't what I would call a ruthless or clinical finisher. In fact he's messy in his follow up work.

I have to go with Wlad KO 4.
The CEO
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Mar 10 2011, 08:09 PM) *
Vitali wins on a brutal one-sided (potentially 12-0) UD, or a late TKO mercy stoppage.

Wlad stretches Haye with a highlight reel KO, with a shot that's reminiscent of the one he almost killed Chris Byrd with in their second fight... but only after carrying/torturing him for a few rounds a la Ali-Terrell.

Haye has a mouth like Jorge Luis Gonzalez... and a professional resume to match it. Gonzalez ran his mouth about Riddick Bowe for years, got the fight, and was promptly dominated, humbled (temporarily), and steamrolled in what was Riddick's last motivated showing.

Haye can talk big, make semi-clever t-shirts, and knock the head off of cardboard cutouts all he wants. It's a different story when he's actually in there with a pissed off heavyweight champion who wasn't amused by the antics. It's okay. You reap what you sow.

I guess Haye's desire to be "the first black James Bond" will have to go by the wayside because Hollywood has no use for a James Bond that looks like he's been in a farming accident.


With ya all the way...a few of us have been set on this one forever...

Haye's chances are Fluke Level.
HaydelHammer
I agree with the majority,but it would be something if Haye gets the KO. The post fight will be something. Haye would prob claim he's the best ever. lol
Mean Mister Mustard
I used to think that with Haye being 6ft 4, quick and explosive, that he would have a shot against Wlad, but after seeing him run around for 12 rounds against Valuev i don't have that much hope. Sure he caught Valuev a couple of times and wobbled him in the final round, but Wlad is quicker and more skilled than Valuev.

I think if Haye tries to get inside Wlad, then he will eat punches, but if he fights like he did against Valuev, then he can survive the 12 rounds.
HaydelHammer
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Mar 11 2011, 10:34 AM) *
I used to think that with Haye being 6ft 4, quick and explosive, that he would have a shot against Wlad, but after seeing him run around for 12 rounds against Valuev i don't have that much hope. Sure he caught Valuev a couple of times and wobbled him in the final round, but Wlad is quicker and more skilled than Valuev.

I think if Haye tries to get inside Wlad, then he will eat punches, but if he fights like he did against Valuev, then he can survive the 12 rounds.


Yep I remember watching the valuev haye fight counting how many times he'd get hammered fighting klit like that. However if he (klit) gets overly aggressive and burns himself out it could get interesting. Make his big a$$ move and punch and miss. Only problem is Haye is wide open to get KTFO the way he fights
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (HaydelHammer @ Mar 11 2011, 11:10 AM) *
Yep I remember watching the valuev haye fight counting how many times he'd get hammered fighting klit like that. However if he (klit) gets overly aggressive and burns himself out it could get interesting. Make his big a$$ move and punch and miss. Only problem is Haye is wide open to get KTFO the way he fights


Yeah that's really the only way he could lose, and I don't see him getting overaggressive. If Haye wants to come in, Klitshcko has the advantage. If he stays away, Klitschko can still keep him away with his jab like Valuev did.

On another note, I made a mistake; Haye is 6ft, 3", not 4".
Jack 1000
I was telling people that I will be very pissed if Wlad-Haye is boring. But my friend was telling me that it still culminates in the heavyweight division getting closer to unification. That's why it would be good if Haye wins, because the Klits will never unify the division.

Jack
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