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Jack 1000
Here are my picks:

147lbs

Martinez vs. Pacquiao: Martinez UD. Too big for Manny.
Martinez vs. Mayweather: Mayweather SD, perhaps controversial. Floyd's toughest challenger since Castillo.

154lbs

Martinez vs. Margacheato 2: Martinez TKO 8- Mercy stoppage
Martinez vs. Cintron 2: Martinez W. Ret. 7-Cintron claims some injury or foul bullshit not wanting to continue
Martinez vs. Angulo: Martinez W UD. 12

160lbs

Martinez vs. Pirog: Martinez W. UD 12
Martinez vs. Sturm: Martinez W. UD 12 (As long as its not in Germany.)

168

Martinez vs. Johnson: Martinez UD 12.
Martinez vs. Abraham: Martinez UD: (In Germany, Abraham wins.)
Martinez vs. Froch: Froch SD
Martinez vs. Direll: Martinez UD
Martinez vs. Kessler: Martinez TKO 11
Martinez vs. Bute: (This would have to be a three fight series, could go either way) I would say Bute SD perhaps on Canadian soil, a Draw in fight #2, and Martinez a SD in fight 3), WOW! All would be great fights!!!!
Martinez vs. Ward: Martinez SD (except in California.)

Jack
gravytrain
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Mar 16 2011, 12:32 AM) *
Here are my picks:

147lbs

Martinez vs. Pacquiao: Martinez UD. Too big for Manny.
Martinez vs. Mayweather: Mayweather SD, perhaps controversial. Floyd's toughest challenger since Castillo.

154lbs

Martinez vs. Margacheato 2: Martinez TKO 8- Mercy stoppage
Martinez vs. Cintron 2: Martinez W. Ret. 7-Cintron claims some injury or foul bullshit not wanting to continue
Martinez vs. Angulo: Martinez W UD. 12

160lbs

Martinez vs. Pirog: Martinez W. UD 12
Martinez vs. Sturm: Martinez W. UD 12 (As long as its not in Germany.)

168

Martinez vs. Johnson: Martinez UD 12.
Martinez vs. Abraham: Martinez UD: (In Germany, Abraham wins.)
Martinez vs. Froch: Froch SD
Martinez vs. Direll: Martinez UD
Martinez vs. Kessler: Martinez TKO 11
Martinez vs. Bute: (This would have to be a three fight series, could go either way) I would say Bute SD perhaps on Canadian soil, a Draw in fight #2, and Martinez a SD in fight 3), WOW! All would be great fights!!!!
Martinez vs. Ward: Martinez SD (except in California.)

Jack


i'm just gonna use weight classes but use the order of your list.

147

KO
UD

154

TKO
KO
UD

160

TKO
UD

168

SD
UD
MD
L, SD
UD
SD
L, UD
D-MARV
Martinez TKO7 Pacquiao (Pacquiao will get caught coming in and Martinez will finish him)
Martinez SD Mayweather (Close fight... Martinez outworks Floyd. Terrible Style match for Lil Floyd)


Martinez UD Margarito (Could be a late stoppage)
Martinez TKO7 Cintron (Just like the first fight)
Martinez KO3 Angulo (YOU CAN COUNT TO 100)

Martinez UD Pirog ( I don't know too much about Pirog. His win over Jacobs could have been the Overhyped win of 2010.)
Martinez TKO10 Sturm

Martinez SD Johnson (Good fight, Johnson is a stylistic problem for Martinez)
Martinez UD Abraham (I think Martinez may taste the mat in this one.)
Martinez Draw Froch (50-50 fight in my opinion. Froch is ugly but effective)
Dirrell UD Martinez (Horrible style clash for Martinez.)
Martinez TKO10 Kessler ( Kessler wouldn't win 1 minute of this fight)
Bute UD Martinez (I wouldn't count out Martinez clipping Bute with something though.)
Ward UD Martinez (Again, bad style clash for Martinez... Ward roughs him up)

kidbazooka1
Like i've stated in the past i think Martinez beats them all and most by stoppage.

I think He stops Pacqiuao brutally and beats Floyd by decision.
JLUVBABY
Personally I think Martinez is becoming a tad bit over rated... i like him as a fighter and he brings excitement but to think he goes through that whole list of fighters with out losing or barely losing... lol... thats a far far stretch... any of those fighters with a solid jab and work rate have a chance to beat him... martinez is good, dont get me wrong, but some are talking like they have been on his band wagon for years and like he has just been raking up impressive victories for years... the guy is riding a 3 fight win streak... until the cintron fight i'm not sure i ever saw his name mentioned on this forum... its too early to claim this dude that great... imo... 8 of the fighters on this list i feel should be solid favorites over him... 1, aa, should he still have something of what he used to have left at 160 is a punchers chance away and makes for a good fight... angulo and pirog i think can possibly give him a good fight (and they both would have punchers chances... pac, margarito and pac in my opinion would be solid underdogs... thats my take on this discussion...
gravytrain
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Mar 16 2011, 10:00 AM) *
Personally I think Martinez is becoming a tad bit over rated... i like him as a fighter and he brings excitement but to think he goes through that whole list of fighters with out losing or barely losing... lol... thats a far far stretch... any of those fighters with a solid jab and work rate have a chance to beat him... martinez is good, dont get me wrong, but some are talking like they have been on his band wagon for years and like he has just been raking up impressive victories for years... the guy is riding a 3 fight win streak... until the cintron fight i'm not sure i ever saw his name mentioned on this forum... its too early to claim this dude that great... imo... 8 of the fighters on this list i feel should be solid favorites over him... 1, aa, should he still have something of what he used to have left at 160 is a punchers chance away and makes for a good fight... angulo and pirog i think can possibly give him a good fight (and they both would have punchers chances... pac, margarito and pac in my opinion would be solid underdogs... thats my take on this discussion...


what gives Pirog a chance? his only real win is over Jacobs and Jacobs was just a prospect. up until 168 Martinez has a pretty good chance of beating them all, at 168 i see him losing some fights but it wouldn't be impossible for him to beat someone like Kessler. Froch was a hard decision but i think the speed, movement, and activity of Martinez would give him some serious problems. up until the SMW division the competition just isn't that strong, nobody at 147-160 is going to beat him and that's half the fighters on the list.

even at 168 their are fighters in a rough patch in their career and someone like Martinez could give them some real problems, i don't think Kessler or Abraham can take him. Johnson, Froch, and Bute are my only questionable fights for Martinez. personally i see him losing to Dirrell and Ward, Ward will just smother him and Dirrell will probably come alive in the 2nd half of the fight and win by a couple points.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 16 2011, 11:30 AM) *
what gives Pirog a chance? his only real win is over Jacobs and Jacobs was just a prospect. up until 168 Martinez has a pretty good chance of beating them all, at 168 i see him losing some fights but it wouldn't be impossible for him to beat someone like Kessler. Froch was a hard decision but i think the speed, movement, and activity of Martinez would give him some serious problems. up until the SMW division the competition just isn't that strong, nobody at 147-160 is going to beat him and that's half the fighters on the list.

even at 168 their are fighters in a rough patch in their career and someone like Martinez could give them some real problems, i don't think Kessler or Abraham can take him. Johnson, Froch, and Bute are my only questionable fights for Martinez. personally i see him losing to Dirrell and Ward, Ward will just smother him and Dirrell will probably come alive in the 2nd half of the fight and win by a couple points.


so basically we are off by about 3 fighters.... like ive said any fighter with a solid jab will have a chance to control him with it.. add power and he really has some issues.. im not taking away from the guy for i think he is a very solid fighter but he really just recently hit the scene at full force and he has some glaring weaknesses... maybe im wrong but i think i see a solid jab controlling him and the guys i mentioned that i would favor over him all have solid jabs except for johnson... i think johnson would simply get in there and out fight him.. kessler, froch, ward, dirrell, bute are all bigger and stronger with ample enough speed and a good hard jab... heck yeah i favor all 5 of them ove rmartinez.. Floyd has every skill set needed to fight him and thoroughly outbox him... is it an easy fight?... i wouldnt think so but i wouldnt be surprised if mayweather made that look easy... as far as pirog... yes he has only beaten jacobs but he would be another guy in there to test sergio... and aa at 160 was good enough to stay unbeaten at that weight... at 160 i give aa a punchers chance against anybody and for sure martinez isnt gonna pull a froch or dirrell on him.. he's not that type of slick fighter... i just dont see martinez as this unbeatable fighter all of a sudden... he's good but he has some proving left to do in my opinion...
gravytrain
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Mar 16 2011, 12:46 PM) *
so basically we are off by about 3 fighters.... like ive said any fighter with a solid jab will have a chance to control him with it.. add power and he really has some issues.. im not taking away from the guy for i think he is a very solid fighter but he really just recently hit the scene at full force and he has some glaring weaknesses... maybe im wrong but i think i see a solid jab controlling him and the guys i mentioned that i would favor over him all have solid jabs except for johnson... i think johnson would simply get in there and out fight him.. kessler, froch, ward, dirrell, bute are all bigger and stronger with ample enough speed and a good hard jab... heck yeah i favor all 5 of them ove rmartinez.. Floyd has every skill set needed to fight him and thoroughly outbox him... is it an easy fight?... i wouldnt think so but i wouldnt be surprised if mayweather made that look easy... as far as pirog... yes he has only beaten jacobs but he would be another guy in there to test sergio... and aa at 160 was good enough to stay unbeaten at that weight... at 160 i give aa a punchers chance against anybody and for sure martinez isnt gonna pull a froch or dirrell on him.. he's not that type of slick fighter... i just dont see martinez as this unbeatable fighter all of a sudden... he's good but he has some proving left to do in my opinion...


i really doubt Mayweather could take him. out of anyone under 168 i give him the best chance but Mayweather isn't going to hurt Martinez and Martinez can put on the pressure unless he goes into cruise control, he also has above average power while being a bigger man. i see Martinez taking advantage of the size difference and lack of power from Mayweather and win by a few rounds. to be honest i'd clean out my account and lay it all on Martinez if they fought, i can't see him losing to Mayweather.

in my opinion Martinez hasn't really had time to show what he's, he started boxing at 20 and had to work his way to America. dude is really recently getting good fights and that's at age 34. i do see a lot of potential with him though, he's consistently improved, always prepares for his fights, and his team is working well together. he knocked Williams out cold in the rematch, moved up to beat Pavlik, and completely dominated Dzinzurik. in my opinion he got robbed in the first Williams fight too. he's the talent, is facing the best 160 and 154 has to offer, and has been winning. he might be new to the status of an elite fighter but i don't see this as being hype, he's a legitimate shot at beating everyone in the divisions he fights in and could arguably beat some of the top 168lbers.
The CEO
First off, we should only speculate on who he could beat in the divisions he's been competing in for the last few years...and those are 54 and 60...I see Martinez as a true 157 pounder, and his weigh ins support that...he's never fought at Super Middle and should not move up unless he really wants to try to shoot the moon...I'll get to those scenarios later...

iMo, Sergio Martinez beats everyone at those weights except Floyd Mayweather...who I think would Decision him at both weights...and dare I say it...possibly STOP him at 54 with some clean, crisp ones he doesn't see comin'...

I recognized Martinez as someone to watch since the Bunema fight and realized he was special in the Cintron fight....I've touted him ever since (and I don't tout many)....I remember emails between JD and myself...where we were discussing how we thought he could test and possibly beat Mayweather at 54 and under...


Now...disregarding the Super Six...IF he were to face any Super Middles of note three months from now, this is how I would call it...


Ward boxes and bullies him to a win. No doubt about it.

Edge to Bute...who is a noticeably bigger, better, and stronger version of Dzinzuruk...Bute is only a B fighter, but his size and punching power would probably do Martinez in...

Slight edge to Dirrell...Dirrell has a long jab, is about as fast, versatile, and has some pop when he bites down...a tough, yet winnable fight for Martinez considering Dirrell's mental weakness....

Beats and possibly stops both Froch and Kessler. They're not gonna outbox him. They both have inaccurate offenses/suspect defenses, and Martinez eats those types up...they would only have "good" Puncher's Chances.
EAlbian
I think M<artinez handles all of the fighters under 160 with relative ease and most by stoppages. I think Floyd could win but he'd be on his bike all night and it wouldn't be a pretty fight.

I think he is live in all the fights a 168 with Ward, Dirrell, and Bute giving him the most problems. Winnable fights though. I think he could actually go up to 175 and give Bhop and Pascal a run for their money as well. Cloud i think might be too big and Dawson might be too skilled(and big).

@160 Pirog is the only guy i see giving him a fight but he needs time and a step up fight or two. Sturm is garbage, he was impressive in one fight against a bloated golden boy. He hasn't fought anyone good. Kirkland is too small and gets hit too easy(a beast @154 but not a mw). Lara might pose a threat in a year or two, needs a step up fight or 3.

Pavlik rematch @165 might be an enetertaining fight if Pavlik can rebound, but i think the Ghosts best days were wasted on scrubs and faked injuries.

Martinez could be remebered as a very good fighter but i don't think he attains that without pushing his limits and fighting in one of the deepest divisions in boxing. I don't see anything wrong with beating Sturm but i doubt Sturm takes that fight because he has only fought scrubs for the last 6 years and hid in Germany. Let the young crop build up their names(Kirkland, Angulo, Pirog, Alvarez, Guererro) and the cream will rise to the top. Martinez can test the waters at 168 and if he fails he can still move back to 160 and fight whoever is the next to be.

The guy is 37 and needs to go for broke, not wait around and demand huge purses. the fights will present themselves if they are called for. He is still not well known but if he were to have a fight of the year with Froch or Bute he could be a star. It needs to be a challenge, not a foregone conclusion. Thats what makes legends
Maxy
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Mar 16 2011, 03:15 PM) *
I think M<artinez handles all of the fighters under 160 with relative ease and most by stoppages. I think Floyd could win but he'd be on his bike all night and it wouldn't be a pretty fight.

I think he is live in all the fights a 168 with Ward, Dirrell, and Bute giving him the most problems. Winnable fights though. I think he could actually go up to 175 and give Bhop and Pascal a run for their money as well. Cloud i think might be too big and Dawson might be too skilled(and big).

@160 Pirog is the only guy i see giving him a fight but he needs time and a step up fight or two. Sturm is garbage, he was impressive in one fight against a bloated golden boy. He hasn't fought anyone good. Kirkland is too small and gets hit too easy(a beast @154 but not a mw). Lara might pose a threat in a year or two, needs a step up fight or 3.

Pavlik rematch @165 might be an enetertaining fight if Pavlik can rebound, but i think the Ghosts best days were wasted on scrubs and faked injuries.

Martinez could be remebered as a very good fighter but i don't think he attains that without pushing his limits and fighting in one of the deepest divisions in boxing. I don't see anything wrong with beating Sturm but i doubt Sturm takes that fight because he has only fought scrubs for the last 6 years and hid in Germany. Let the young crop build up their names(Kirkland, Angulo, Pirog, Alvarez, Guererro) and the cream will rise to the top. Martinez can test the waters at 168 and if he fails he can still move back to 160 and fight whoever is the next to be.

The guy is 37 and needs to go for broke, not wait around and demand huge purses. the fights will present themselves if they are called for. He is still not well known but if he were to have a fight of the year with Froch or Bute he could be a star. It needs to be a challenge, not a foregone conclusion. Thats what makes legends


And yet some consider Floyd Mayweather a legend. Tut tut.
gravytrain
QUOTE (Maxy @ Mar 16 2011, 02:22 PM) *
And yet some consider Floyd Mayweather a legend. Tut tut.


not only that, Pac and Mayweather didn't get to a legend status without names on the resume. in this era Mayweather reached "legend" status, made loads of money, and did it all while really only beating a past his prime De La Hoya. where is Martinez gonna be even if he beats some top SMWs? probably in the position Pac was before the DLH fight, a good fighter moving around and winning but lacking mainstream exposure.

EAlbian
QUOTE (Maxy @ Mar 16 2011, 02:22 PM) *
And yet some consider Floyd Mayweather a legend. Tut tut.


Mayweather beating Corrales wasn't a foregone conclusion, Mayweather beating Castillo not a foregone conclusion, Mayweather beating Baldomir wasn't a forgone conclusion(although i thought it was a lot of people, including Brian Kenny, thought it wasn't) Betting odds were even money going into the De la Hoya fight, People though he wouldn't get by genero hernandez or manfredy. He paid his dues as did Pac. I think they are both very good but couldnt ever rate them higher than Ray Leonard
EAlbian
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 16 2011, 02:53 PM) *
not only that, Pac and Mayweather didn't get to a legend status without names on the resume. in this era Mayweather reached "legend" status, made loads of money, and did it all while really only beating a past his prime De La Hoya. where is Martinez gonna be even if he beats some top SMWs? probably in the position Pac was before the DLH fight, a good fighter moving around and winning but lacking mainstream exposure.


The De La Hoya fight may have brought both over the top but they built their foundation with many hard earned victories over good fighters, the De La Hoya fight was a reward for the years they spent building their names. You maybe right but thats not a terrible place to be, he isn't ever going to be Pac or May post DLH
gravytrain
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Mar 16 2011, 03:16 PM) *
The De La Hoya fight may have brought both over the top but they built their foundation with many hard earned victories over good fighters, the De La Hoya fight was a reward for the years they spent building their names


well according to you Pac should have took harder fights with less reward instead of going for the exposure of a DLH fight. you know, build himself up rather than getting a name on his resume. i wonder where Pac would be if he jumped up and fought the best welterweight instead of DLH.

any way you want to look at this a fighter with a name does more for you legacy than a fighter without one, more for your bank account too.
EAlbian
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 16 2011, 03:34 PM) *
well according to you Pac should have took harder fights with less reward instead of going for the exposure of a DLH fight. you know, build himself up rather than getting a name on his resume. i wonder where Pac would be if he jumped up and fought the best welterweight instead of DLH.

any way you want to look at this a fighter with a name does more for you legacy than a fighter without one, more for your bank account too.


Pac moved up, sought out a challenge as did mayweather not the opposite. If pac would have fought Cotto instead of De La Hoya he would be more respected, yes. Richer, probably not, but he would still be a huge name. Even if he would have fought Hatton instead of De La Hoya he would have been respected highly and still very rich. Pac already had names on his resume, Barerra, Marquez, Morales. Those are the fights he's regarded for, not the De La Hoya fight. Its like Shaq got rich playing in LA but he made his name in Orlando
EAlbian
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 16 2011, 03:34 PM) *
well according to you Pac should have took harder fights with less reward instead of going for the exposure of a DLH fight. you know, build himself up rather than getting a name on his resume. i wonder where Pac would be if he jumped up and fought the best welterweight instead of DLH.

any way you want to look at this a fighter with a name does more for you legacy than a fighter without one, more for your bank account too.


You keep fighting this like you're his promoter looking for big $, what is your problem with him going to SMW and making good fights?? Are you telling me Martinez vs Sturm/Angulo/Alvarez is better than him vs Froch/Ward/Bute? do you really believe that a fight with Pac/May makes for a better fight? Does Bhop utterly destroy him? Bhop is a big name, one of the best of the last 10 years. It would be 15 lbs compared to the 12lbs Manny jumped up to fight DLH. Bhop also just signed to 3 fights with HBO
Fitz
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Mar 17 2011, 02:00 AM) *
Personally I think Martinez is becoming a tad bit over rated... i like him as a fighter and he brings excitement but to think he goes through that whole list of fighters with out losing or barely losing... lol... thats a far far stretch... any of those fighters with a solid jab and work rate have a chance to beat him... martinez is good, dont get me wrong, but some are talking like they have been on his band wagon for years and like he has just been raking up impressive victories for years... the guy is riding a 3 fight win streak... until the cintron fight i'm not sure i ever saw his name mentioned on this forum... its too early to claim this dude that great... imo... 8 of the fighters on this list i feel should be solid favorites over him... 1, aa, should he still have something of what he used to have left at 160 is a punchers chance away and makes for a good fight... angulo and pirog i think can possibly give him a good fight (and they both would have punchers chances... pac, margarito and pac in my opinion would be solid underdogs... thats my take on this discussion...


What a great post JLuv. I think Martinez is pretty damn impressive so far, but some get a little out of hand. These are the good parts, or the parts that I laughed at, haha.

Hahaha. You gave a lot of people a cold shower.
gravytrain
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Mar 16 2011, 03:48 PM) *
Pac moved up, sought out a challenge as did mayweather not the opposite. If pac would have fought Cotto instead of De La Hoya he would be more respected, yes. Richer, probably not, but he would still be a huge name. Even if he would have fought Hatton instead of De La Hoya he would have been respected highly and still very rich. Pac already had names on his resume, Barerra, Marquez, Morales. Those are the fights he's regarded for, not the De La Hoya fight. Its like Shaq got rich playing in LA but he made his name in Orlando


there aren't any names out there above 154, the only one you can really mention is Hopkins and his last 2 PPVs have done shit numbers. the names are at 154 and 147 and all the top fighters in both divisions either fight in a division Martinez can fight in or have held a title in the division Martinez can fight in. moving up to 168 wouldn't even make any sense, he's probably a bigger draw than most of the fighters, they haven't made it in America, and he'd really just get tough fights with no reward. he's 36, not 26. waiting a minimum of a year to fight a SMW on Showtime makes no sense.

QUOTE (EAlbian @ Mar 16 2011, 04:04 PM) *
You keep fighting this like you're his promoter looking for big $, what is your problem with him going to SMW and making good fights?? Are you telling me Martinez vs Sturm/Angulo/Alvarez is better than him vs Froch/Ward/Bute? do you really believe that a fight with Pac/May makes for a better fight? Does Bhop utterly destroy him? Bhop is a big name, one of the best of the last 10 years. It would be 15 lbs compared to the 12lbs Manny jumped up to fight DLH. Bhop also just signed to 3 fights with HBO


i'd rather see a guy willing to fight anyone get a chance at some money instead of pointlessly going to 168 and fucking up any chance of making money. is Mayweather or Pac vs some chump better than a Martinez fight? what about some other easy fights other fighters in the divisions can take? i'd rather see them take a tough fight since they're supposed to be the best there's, if they didn't want the risk of fighting someone like him they shouldn't have fought at 154. Margarito is no bigger than Martinez, how can Martinez be too big yet Margarito is alright? the only difference is Marg is washed up and Martinez is still a live fighter.

i'm not fighting for it, i think you're completely delusional thinking him and Bute are about to put on a PPV that'll move him along further in his career than a Pac or Mayweather fight. this isn't exactly rocket science. Hopkins last PPVs have done horrible and haven't even broke 200k, Pavlik has had one PPV and it did 150k, fighters at 168 are making jack shit fighting on Showtime. how is that more lucrative than opponents that are either the top draws in the sport or fighters that have been a part of successful PPVs recently?
D-MARV
QUOTE (The CEO @ Mar 16 2011, 03:07 PM) *
First off, we should only speculate on who he could beat in the divisions he's been competing in for the last few years...and those are 54 and 60...I see Martinez as a true 157 pounder, and his weigh ins support that...he's never fought at Super Middle and should not move up unless he really wants to try to shoot the moon...I'll get to those scenarios later...

iMo, Sergio Martinez beats everyone at those weights except Floyd Mayweather...who I think would Decision him at both weights...and dare I say it...possibly STOP him at 54 with some clean, crisp ones he doesn't see comin'...

I recognized Martinez as someone to watch since the Bunema fight and realized he was special in the Cintron fight....I've touted him ever since (and I don't tout many)....I remember emails between JD and myself...where we were discussing how we thought he could test and possibly beat Mayweather at 54 and under...


Now...disregarding the Super Six...IF he were to face any Super Middles of note three months from now, this is how I would call it...


Ward boxes and bullies him to a win. No doubt about it.

Edge to Bute...who is a noticeably bigger, better, and stronger version of Dzinzuruk...Bute is only a B fighter, but his size and punching power would probably do Martinez in...

Slight edge to Dirrell...Dirrell has a long jab, is about as fast, versatile, and has some pop when he bites down...a tough, yet winnable fight for Martinez considering Dirrell's mental weakness....

Beats and possibly stops both Froch and Kessler. They're not gonna outbox him. They both have inaccurate offenses/suspect defenses, and Martinez eats those types up...they would only have "good" Puncher's Chances.

Dead On!!!! I agree with this whole post (though I would slightly favor Martinez over Lil Floyd).
EAlbian
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 16 2011, 06:29 PM) *
there aren't any names out there above 154, the only one you can really mention is Hopkins and his last 2 PPVs have done shit numbers. the names are at 154 and 147 and all the top fighters in both divisions either fight in a division Martinez can fight in or have held a title in the division Martinez can fight in. moving up to 168 wouldn't even make any sense, he's probably a bigger draw than most of the fighters, they haven't made it in America, and he'd really just get tough fights with no reward. he's 36, not 26. waiting a minimum of a year to fight a SMW on Showtime makes no sense.



i'd rather see a guy willing to fight anyone get a chance at some money instead of pointlessly going to 168 and fucking up any chance of making money. is Mayweather or Pac vs some chump better than a Martinez fight? what about some other easy fights other fighters in the divisions can take? i'd rather see them take a tough fight since they're supposed to be the best there's, if they didn't want the risk of fighting someone like him they shouldn't have fought at 154. Margarito is no bigger than Martinez, how can Martinez be too big yet Margarito is alright? the only difference is Marg is washed up and Martinez is still a live fighter.

i'm not fighting for it, i think you're completely delusional thinking him and Bute are about to put on a PPV that'll move him along further in his career than a Pac or Mayweather fight. this isn't exactly rocket science. Hopkins last PPVs have done horrible and haven't even broke 200k, Pavlik has had one PPV and it did 150k, fighters at 168 are making jack shit fighting on Showtime. how is that more lucrative than opponents that are either the top draws in the sport or fighters that have been a part of successful PPVs recently?


What names are there below 160 besides May Pac or Cotto? Mayweather and Pac fight at 147 right now and Cotto is not going anywhere near that. What kind of money are you talking about, its not like he's making 60k a year he just got 1.2 mill to fight a guy that is unknown in America and best opponent is Joel Julio. Mayweather and Pac could fight nobody, litterally show up to the ring without an opponent and draw 350k ppv's. They fought at 154 for legacy and a boat load of money and made it clear it was a one time thing. Margarito doesnt weigh 176 30 days before a fight while still carrying a six pack, martinez is the larger man with much larger bone structure.

I want to see competitive fight that are fan friendly and where fighters are risking something, mayweather and Pac arent doing the sport any favors. I know that fighthing them means garunteed money but that doesnt make me want to see it, it doesnt advance my bank account it deducts from it to watch a shitty fight. JJC Jr vs Pac would draw good numbers doesnt mean i have any interest in seeing it. Pav vs Wald Kilitchko would prob break the PPV record doesnt mean i want to see it. I'm speaking from a fans perspective and i want to see the sport advanced which means it will be exposed to a larger audience which means more people will watch which means eventually the fighters will make more money. 1.2 mill for 4 months of work is more than any fighters in the UFC make and seems pretty reasonable for a guy who is not super popular to fight a guy who is almost unheard of. You make it seem like if youre not making 5 mill a fight you are underpaid when its the exact opposite. Athletes of today make way too much and dont preform half as good as fighters of the past. If he fights SMW that are seen as a great challenge in an exciting fight, people will take notice. the guy has star written all over him, now all he needs is the challenges to push him into that role. He's a good looking guy with recent knockouts all he needs is to be in a war that has people talking outside of the boxing community and i think those come from a fight at 168
streetlion1
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Mar 15 2011, 11:32 PM) *
Here are my picks:

147lbs

Martinez vs. Pacquiao: Martinez UD. Too big for Manny.
Martinez vs. Mayweather: Mayweather SD, perhaps controversial. Floyd's toughest challenger since Castillo.

154lbs

Martinez vs. Margacheato 2: Martinez TKO 8- Mercy stoppage
Martinez vs. Cintron 2: Martinez W. Ret. 7-Cintron claims some injury or foul bullshit not wanting to continue
Martinez vs. Angulo: Martinez W UD. 12

160lbs

Martinez vs. Pirog: Martinez W. UD 12
Martinez vs. Sturm: Martinez W. UD 12 (As long as its not in Germany.)

168

Martinez vs. Johnson: Martinez UD 12.
Martinez vs. Abraham: Martinez UD: (In Germany, Abraham wins.)
Martinez vs. Froch: Froch SD
Martinez vs. Direll: Martinez UD
Martinez vs. Kessler: Martinez TKO 11
Martinez vs. Bute: (This would have to be a three fight series, could go either way) I would say Bute SD perhaps on Canadian soil, a Draw in fight #2, and Martinez a SD in fight 3), WOW! All would be great fights!!!!
Martinez vs. Ward: Martinez SD (except in California.)

Jack

V.S. Mayweather....I see that as a very interesting fight. However I think Mayweathers footspeed and pot shotting MIGHT carry him to a split decision victory....BUT I could see Martinez hurting Mayweather and knocking him out too...or else just controlling the action on his way to a decision victory.

V.S. Pacquiao...given Pacquiaos tendency to slug it out and his clear lack of defense I see Martinez knocking Pacquiao out and winning (to the surprise of many) fairly easily.

V.S. Margarito...Martinez wins by K.O.

V.S. Cotto...I see Cotto having moments where he does well and he is my favorite fighter but I just dont see him lasting long in a fight against Martinez :-( Martinez by K.O.

V.S. Cintron...Martinez by K.O.

V.S. Angulo...Martinez by K.O.

Pirog and Sturm stand no chance lol

V.S. Johnson, Abraham, Froch, and Kessler...Martinez by Decision

V.S. Bute....could be interesting....but I say Martinez by K.O.

V.S. Ward....in a good fight....Ward by Decision

V.S. Dirrells style against Martinez could give him problems.

So the only 2 guys I see really giving him problems/losses would be Mayweather and Ward...possibly Dirrell because of the styles. That is IF when Martinez moved up to 168 his speed and power stayed with him.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Mar 17 2011, 12:51 AM) *
I can see why you say he may be getting over rated but maybe that's because he is giving fight fans something to talk about for all the right reasons. He is a humble fighter who has worked very hard to get where he is in a very short amount of time without fighting any cash cows. He as beat the best possible fighters (so far) around him who were respected and regarded high by many in great fashion.

Sure there were a very small minority who knew of him, but what reasons did fight fans have to talk about him before the Cintron fight? Not a great deal. Kind of hard for boxing fans to talk about him when he had hardly fought anyone of note before hand nor got any tv coverage. Same kind of thing before Pac fought Barrera! Sergio Martinez hasn't been in a dull fight, in the last several years he has fought top fighters in Cintron, Williams, Pavlik, Williams and Dzinziruk and beat them in good performances which is more than enough reason for fight fans to get behind him now.

Not even gonna lie as me personally, I hardly knew much of him nor saw anything until the 1st Williams fight. That fight was an instant classic with both hitting the deck in the first and many calling it FOTY, not to mentioned with the horrible wide score card on one of the judges cards, many fans felt he deserved the fight, like myself. He was a late sub and gave Paul Williams the toughest fight of his career at the time, showed a lot of effort and put on a show.

Now that he is looking so impressive, I feel it's a tad unfortunate that all of a sudden a guy who was a 154 fight not long ago should be obligated in moving up another division to face the top Super Middleweights, which happens to be one of the most competitive division in the sport at the moment. We don't even know how he will carry that extra weight yet either which makes some of these predictions even more difficult to make.

Now in terms of this thread the only fighter 160 down that would be a serious threat to him would be Mayweather as he has enough skills alone to beat many around him. As for him facing the top fighters at 168 I think in order, all Bute, Froch, Kessler and Ward would beat him and the rest would be pretty close to call.

I believe his camp said that Sergio is around 157 when having breakfast and wouldn't plan on moving him up for another year or so which is exactly the right thing to do at this point in time.


well i just read an interview from sergio and he says himself that right now 168 is too big for him... so as of now fights at 168 might be just mythical matchups.. as far as my take on the guy... like i said i am a fan of sergios and his fighting style and you are dead on correct... he gives us something to talk about... but just a few fights into his quest for greatness is too soon, as some have, in my opinion to label this guy automatically beating everyone at 160 or under and some even claiming 168 and under... sergios a good solid fighter and for sure dangerous for anybody in and or around his weight division but he has some solid challenges out there at 160 and 154... its very naive to think he walks through those 2 divisions... a good jab pumping offsets sergio... let me say it like this... i dont have a problem proclaiming him as the king in either 154 or 160 but he is not without peers... he has legit comp at both weight classes... as far as 168, like i said, is too heavy for him. sergio discusses career..
Maxy
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Mar 17 2011, 11:18 AM) *
well i just read an interview from sergio and he says himself that right now 168 is too big for him... so as of now fights at 168 might be just mythical matchups.. as far as my take on the guy... like i said i am a fan of sergios and his fighting style and you are dead on correct... he gives us something to talk about... but just a few fights into his quest for greatness is too soon, as some have, in my opinion to label this guy automatically beating everyone at 160 or under and some even claiming 168 and under... sergios a good solid fighter and for sure dangerous for anybody in and or around his weight division but he has some solid challenges out there at 160 and 154... its very naive to think he walks through those 2 divisions... a good jab pumping offsets sergio... let me say it like this... i dont have a problem proclaiming him as the king in either 154 or 160 but he is not without peers... he has legit comp at both weight classes... as far as 168, like i said, is too heavy for him. sergio discusses career..


Spot on.
JD
QUOTE (The CEO @ Mar 16 2011, 03:07 PM) *
First off, we should only speculate on who he could beat in the divisions he's been competing in for the last few years...and those are 54 and 60...I see Martinez as a true 157 pounder, and his weigh ins support that...he's never fought at Super Middle and should not move up unless he really wants to try to shoot the moon...I'll get to those scenarios later...

iMo, Sergio Martinez beats everyone at those weights except Floyd Mayweather...who I think would Decision him at both weights...and dare I say it...possibly STOP him at 54 with some clean, crisp ones he doesn't see comin'...

I recognized Martinez as someone to watch since the Bunema fight and realized he was special in the Cintron fight....I've touted him ever since (and I don't tout many)....I remember emails between JD and myself...where we were discussing how we thought he could test and possibly beat Mayweather at 54 and under...


Now...disregarding the Super Six...IF he were to face any Super Middles of note three months from now, this is how I would call it...


Ward boxes and bullies him to a win. No doubt about it.

Edge to Bute...who is a noticeably bigger, better, and stronger version of Dzinzuruk...Bute is only a B fighter, but his size and punching power would probably do Martinez in...

Slight edge to Dirrell...Dirrell has a long jab, is about as fast, versatile, and has some pop when he bites down...a tough, yet winnable fight for Martinez considering Dirrell's mental weakness....

Beats and possibly stops both Froch and Kessler. They're not gonna outbox him. They both have inaccurate offenses/suspect defenses, and Martinez eats those types up...they would only have "good" Puncher's Chances.


LOL...yeah man, I remember getting harassed for wanting to see Floyd - Martinez at 154, and even picking him back then.

I think Sergio should stay away from 168, those dudes are far bigger than him. In fairness, he just seems to be getting comfortable at 160 right now.

I am not sure who I would take him over at 168 to be honest. The crop of fighters there is under appreciated by many.

Soon enough Kirkland and Lemieux will be big enough names for him at his own weight, and there is a good chance Cotto will meet him at 157.
gravytrain
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Mar 17 2011, 09:56 AM) *
What names are there below 160 besides May Pac or Cotto? Mayweather and Pac fight at 147 right now and Cotto is not going anywhere near that. What kind of money are you talking about, its not like he's making 60k a year he just got 1.2 mill to fight a guy that is unknown in America and best opponent is Joel Julio. Mayweather and Pac could fight nobody, litterally show up to the ring without an opponent and draw 350k ppv's. They fought at 154 for legacy and a boat load of money and made it clear it was a one time thing. Margarito doesnt weigh 176 30 days before a fight while still carrying a six pack, martinez is the larger man with much larger bone structure.

I want to see competitive fight that are fan friendly and where fighters are risking something, mayweather and Pac arent doing the sport any favors. I know that fighthing them means garunteed money but that doesnt make me want to see it, it doesnt advance my bank account it deducts from it to watch a shitty fight. JJC Jr vs Pac would draw good numbers doesnt mean i have any interest in seeing it. Pav vs Wald Kilitchko would prob break the PPV record doesnt mean i want to see it. I'm speaking from a fans perspective and i want to see the sport advanced which means it will be exposed to a larger audience which means more people will watch which means eventually the fighters will make more money. 1.2 mill for 4 months of work is more than any fighters in the UFC make and seems pretty reasonable for a guy who is not super popular to fight a guy who is almost unheard of. You make it seem like if youre not making 5 mill a fight you are underpaid when its the exact opposite. Athletes of today make way too much and dont preform half as good as fighters of the past. If he fights SMW that are seen as a great challenge in an exciting fight, people will take notice. the guy has star written all over him, now all he needs is the challenges to push him into that role. He's a good looking guy with recent knockouts all he needs is to be in a war that has people talking outside of the boxing community and i think those come from a fight at 168


Mayweather, Pac, Margarito, and Cotto. All have been on successful and can provide exposure and a name on his resume if he beats them. if he stopped Cotto and Margarito early then automatically he's a man that did what Pac couldn't and would automatically get bigger paydays and better opportunities. and get fucking serious with Mayweather and Pac fighting at 154 for legacy, Pac didn't even make the catchweight to fight Margarito and Mayweather fought DLH. they were opportunities to make more money. what fighters 160-175 have even been part of a successful PPV? none and that's exactly why if he starts wanting to make a run at the big time he needs names and not to stall until the end of the S6 and the winner fights Bute before being able to even make a run at the top of a division where most fighters are probably making less than him.

Pac, Mayweather, and Martinez are easily the top 3 fighters in the sport and they all can fight at 154. when boxing actually had an audience this shit would have already been made. he's also the only real challenge for either fighter and nobody knows exactly what will happen in the fights they can all get something out of. if Pac beat Martinez he'd be guaranteed to be mentioned among the ATGs, if Mayweather beat him it'd silence the ducker shit once and for all, and Martinez could have the opportunity to fight 2 of the best fighters of this era while getting good paydays in the process.
SENTRAL
Are people simply desperate for a superstar and so rationalism is betrayed in the belief we have a fighter who can genuinely take that mantle?  Martinez is a good fighter, he's very enjoyable to watch and he is likable. He might be the best middleweight in the world but even if he is at this present time, age is against him and he will be beaten within 18 months.  Not because of his age either.  I say this because there are already two fighters I believe will be too good for Martinez, at middleweight in the next year or so.  Yes, yes, David Lemieux is one of them, and so very few of you ever seem to mention him so I had to bring his name up again.  The other is Pirog.  They are my future picks and Felix Sturm is also capable of upsetting him because he has the tools to cause many problems.  Forget about him beating Bute, Ward and Froch because he wouldn't and he won't be facing them either.  He is a middleweight and sometimes a fighter will stay
in one division (baring in mind he has already moved up from 154).  Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon (Martinez will never be on either's level) made 160 their own and never needed to move up.  Martinez is in a bloom period and that's all it is and all it will ever be.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Mar 17 2011, 12:33 PM) *
Are people simply desperate for a superstar and so rationalism is betrayed in the belief we have a fighter who can genuinely take that mantle?  Martinez is a good fighter, he's very enjoyable to watch and he is likable. He might be the best middleweight in the world but even if he is at this present time, age is against him and he will be beaten within 18 months.  Not because of his age either.  I say this because there are already two fighters I believe will be too good for Martinez, at middleweight in the next year or so.  Yes, yes, David Lemieux is one of them, and so very few of you ever seem to mention him so I had to bring his name up again.  The other is Pirog.  They are my future picks and Felix Sturm is also capable of upsetting him because he has the tools to cause many problems.  Forget about him beating Bute, Ward and Froch because he wouldn't and he won't be facing them either.  He is a middleweight and sometimes a fighter will stay
in one division (baring in mind he has already moved up from 154).  Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon (Martinez will never be on either's level) made 160 their own and never needed to move up.  Martinez is in a bloom period and that's all it is and all it will ever be.


very well said sentral...
EAlbian
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 17 2011, 11:43 AM) *
Mayweather, Pac, Margarito, and Cotto. All have been on successful and can provide exposure and a name on his resume if he beats them. if he stopped Cotto and Margarito early then automatically he's a man that did what Pac couldn't and would automatically get bigger paydays and better opportunities. and get fucking serious with Mayweather and Pac fighting at 154 for legacy, Pac didn't even make the catchweight to fight Margarito and Mayweather fought DLH. they were opportunities to make more money. what fighters 160-175 have even been part of a successful PPV? none and that's exactly why if he starts wanting to make a run at the big time he needs names and not to stall until the end of the S6 and the winner fights Bute before being able to even make a run at the top of a division where most fighters are probably making less than him.

Pac, Mayweather, and Martinez are easily the top 3 fighters in the sport and they all can fight at 154. when boxing actually had an audience this shit would have already been made. he's also the only real challenge for either fighter and nobody knows exactly what will happen in the fights they can all get something out of. if Pac beat Martinez he'd be guaranteed to be mentioned among the ATGs, if Mayweather beat him it'd silence the ducker shit once and for all, and Martinez could have the opportunity to fight 2 of the best fighters of this era while getting good paydays in the process.


Legacy, to win titles in 5 and weight classes. It's not like they ever had intenetion of fighthing in that weight class for an extended period of time. Mayweather weighed in @148 and only came into the ring at 150, maybe less. He's not a jr mw and niether is Pac who weighed in at less. I have no problem with him fighting Margarito or Cotto at 154 but don't expect to actually see that. You keep talking about these guys as PPV fighters, they arent. Cotto has been back on Hbo, if he was such a huge draw all the time he would solely be on PPV, like flyod and Pac. Margarito did what after his biggest win over Cotto? Lost on HBO to Mosley.

The fights between Martinez and Mayweather/Pac aren't going to happen because they can make the same $$ fighting guys who are 1/10th of the risk how don't you see that. He brings nothing to the table for them. I wish Mayweather was hungry and said fuck it i want Marrtinez but it's not gonna happen.

Its more likely that we see Martinez man up and fight some of the guys at SMW and put on great fights because i think that what you get if you put those fighters in the ring.

Sentral I agree with you 100% Martinez is not the greatest fighter to lace them up and i think Pirog could prose some very big problems for him but i think he needs those 18mo. Lemuix is still pretty far off, lets see how he does with Rubio.

I guess i just don't get how some of you guys(and Sentral) don't see him in very entertaining fights with Bute, Ward, Froch and the rest of the SMW's when he took everything that Pavlik had to offer and 2 yrs ago the discussion was how Pavlik was gonna KO Calzaghe and the rest of the SMW's of the time. He's big enough to fight at 168 when he weighs 176 30 days before Williams II fight and still is shredded
gravytrain
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Mar 17 2011, 02:29 PM) *
Legacy, to win titles in 5 and weight classes. It's not like they ever had intenetion of fighthing in that weight class for an extended period of time. Mayweather weighed in @148 and only came into the ring at 150, maybe less. He's not a jr mw and niether is Pac who weighed in at less. I have no problem with him fighting Margarito or Cotto at 154 but don't expect to actually see that. You keep talking about these guys as PPV fighters, they arent. Cotto has been back on Hbo, if he was such a huge draw all the time he would solely be on PPV, like flyod and Pac. Margarito did what after his biggest win over Cotto? Lost on HBO to Mosley.

The fights between Martinez and Mayweather/Pac aren't going to happen because they can make the same $$ fighting guys who are 1/10th of the risk how don't you see that. He brings nothing to the table for them. I wish Mayweather was hungry and said fuck it i want Marrtinez but it's not gonna happen.

Its more likely that we see Martinez man up and fight some of the guys at SMW and put on great fights because i think that what you get if you put those fighters in the ring.

Sentral I agree with you 100% Martinez is not the greatest fighter to lace them up and i think Pirog could prose some very big problems for him but i think he needs those 18mo. Lemuix is still pretty far off, lets see how he does with Rubio.

I guess i just don't get how some of you guys(and Sentral) don't see him in very entertaining fights with Bute, Ward, Froch and the rest of the SMW's when he took everything that Pavlik had to offer and 2 yrs ago the discussion was how Pavlik was gonna KO Calzaghe and the rest of the SMW's of the time. He's big enough to fight at 168 when he weighs 176 30 days before Williams II fight and still is shredded


the whole point of this is what's going to make Martinez a bigger star and more money, it's not even a debate about whether Pac, Mayweather, Cotto, or Margarito as a W on his resume will be better than practically anyone at 168. that shit can't even be argued. somehow you think he's going to get a PPV with Pavlik in the future or become a star by fighting people making less than him fighting in the S6 or fighting Bute on Showtime.

if they didn't have intentions of fighting in the division then they shouldn't have. personally i don't expect him to fight any of them, we're talking in hypotheticals. him getting a big fight at 168 any time soon is about as likely as him facing Mayweather or Pac. Froch, Ward, and Bute all have other shit going on and taking on Martinez isn't part of the plan. however Cotto got more viewers facing Foreman by his damn self than Martinez/Williams II did with the Pac/Margarito replay helping it out. Cotto has also been involved in a few PPVs, even his one with Mayorga will probably do better than what fighters you've mentioned have done like Hopkins and fighters that haven't even had a PPV. Pavlik? his PPV flopped. no SMW even has a PPV. the exposure he gets with a Cotto or Margarito fight is 20x what he'd get with anyone at 168 and Pac or Mayweather 200x.

QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Mar 17 2011, 12:33 PM) *
Are people simply desperate for a superstar and so rationalism is betrayed in the belief we have a fighter who can genuinely take that mantle? Martinez is a good fighter, he's very enjoyable to watch and he is likable. He might be the best middleweight in the world but even if he is at this present time, age is against him and he will be beaten within 18 months. Not because of his age either. I say this because there are already two fighters I believe will be too good for Martinez, at middleweight in the next year or so. Yes, yes, David Lemieux is one of them, and so very few of you ever seem to mention him so I had to bring his name up again. The other is Pirog. They are my future picks and Felix Sturm is also capable of upsetting him because he has the tools to cause many problems. Forget about him beating Bute, Ward and Froch because he wouldn't and he won't be facing them either. He is a middleweight and sometimes a fighter will stay
in one division (baring in mind he has already moved up from 154). Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon (Martinez will never be on either's level) made 160 their own and never needed to move up. Martinez is in a bloom period and that's all it is and all it will ever be.


David fucking Lemieux in 18 months? maybe in those 18 months he can actually fight a ranked MW. out of all of them i give Sturm the best chance and i really see that like another Martinez/Dzinzurik.
EAlbian
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 17 2011, 03:29 PM) *
the whole point of this is what's going to make Martinez a bigger star and more money, it's not even a debate about whether Pac, Mayweather, Cotto, or Margarito as a W on his resume will be better than practically anyone at 168. that shit can't even be argued. somehow you think he's going to get a PPV with Pavlik in the future or become a star by fighting people making less than him fighting in the S6 or fighting Bute on Showtime.

if they didn't have intentions of fighting in the division then they shouldn't have. personally i don't expect him to fight any of them, we're talking in hypotheticals. him getting a big fight at 168 any time soon is about as likely as him facing Mayweather or Pac. Froch, Ward, and Bute all have other shit going on and taking on Martinez isn't part of the plan. however Cotto got more viewers facing Foreman by his damn self than Martinez/Williams II did with the Pac/Margarito replay helping it out. Cotto has also been involved in a few PPVs, even his one with Mayorga will probably do better than what fighters you've mentioned have done like Hopkins and fighters that haven't even had a PPV. Pavlik? his PPV flopped. no SMW even has a PPV. the exposure he gets with a Cotto or Margarito fight is 20x what he'd get with anyone at 168 and Pac or Mayweather 200x.



David fucking Lemieux in 18 months? maybe in those 18 months he can actually fight a ranked MW. out of all of them i give Sturm the best chance and i really see that like another Martinez/Dzinzurik.



I'm not talking about what makes him money, obviously thats Mayweather( 2nd highest paid athlete when he's actually competing) He has a shot to get the fights at SMW, how easy was it for Dirrell to drop out of the S6. Timmy Bradley up and left showtime in pursuit of a larger bank account, HBO has the largest budget thats a fact. They fought in that division to advance their bank accounts, pac got to say he won a title in 8 weight classes and floyd got to say he did it in 5. they both went back down immediatly.

The best way to become a star is to be in big fights that are entertaining, a fight with any of the SMWs is going to be exciting. Will it get him 5 million prob not but if its an entertaining fight it might set up something where he's the A-side. A Hopkins fight next year could actually be pretty big at that point if he beats Pascal in an entertaining fight. Good fights do more for your career, i'm not saying its going to bring him huge money. but it would bring him in the direction that i want to see instead of holding boxing back.

If you are trying to argue that Miguel Cotto makes more money than Froch/Bute/Ward i agree but Cotto only made 2 million for the Foreman fight so that gives you an idea of what he's worth to HBO, Martinez made 1.2 miilion for Dz. If they can agree to that fight thats great but Bob Arum isnt ready to let one of his cash cows go that easy.

He has a better shot fighting any of the SMWs than he does fighting Cotto or Margarito because they are fighting eachother next, i would rather see him chase greatness then wait around for mediocrity.

He will probably fight a scrub MW maybe even Sturm and then have a rematch with Pavlik or get the Cotto Margarito winner, i was just saying i'd like to see for once a fighter step up and really challenge himself instead of going after a wounded duck or picking on a smaller fighter to get rich. Hopkins got a lot of respect going up 15 lbs to fight Tarver, i think Martinez could do the same for himself
gravytrain
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Mar 17 2011, 04:05 PM) *
I'm not talking about what makes him money, obviously thats Mayweather( 2nd highest paid athlete when he's actually competing) He has a shot to get the fights at SMW, how easy was it for Dirrell to drop out of the S6. Timmy Bradley up and left showtime in pursuit of a larger bank account, HBO has the largest budget thats a fact. They fought in that division to advance their bank accounts, pac got to say he won a title in 8 weight classes and floyd got to say he did it in 5. they both went back down immediatly.

The best way to become a star is to be in big fights that are entertaining, a fight with any of the SMWs is going to be exciting. Will it get him 5 million prob not but if its an entertaining fight it might set up something where he's the A-side. A Hopkins fight next year could actually be pretty big at that point if he beats Pascal in an entertaining fight. Good fights do more for your career, i'm not saying its going to bring him huge money. but it would bring him in the direction that i want to see instead of holding boxing back.

If you are trying to argue that Miguel Cotto makes more money than Froch/Bute/Ward i agree but Cotto only made 2 million for the Foreman fight so that gives you an idea of what he's worth to HBO, Martinez made 1.2 miilion for Dz. If they can agree to that fight thats great but Bob Arum isnt ready to let one of his cash cows go that easy.

He has a better shot fighting any of the SMWs than he does fighting Cotto or Margarito because they are fighting eachother next, i would rather see him chase greatness then wait around for mediocrity.

He will probably fight a scrub MW maybe even Sturm and then have a rematch with Pavlik or get the Cotto Margarito winner, i was just saying i'd like to see for once a fighter step up and really challenge himself instead of going after a wounded duck or picking on a smaller fighter to get rich. Hopkins got a lot of respect going up 15 lbs to fight Tarver, i think Martinez could do the same for himself


are you reading what you write? Martinez going up 2 divisions to fight Hopkins is gonna be a good choice yet him fighting someone at 154 a division he can still compete in and other fighters have fought in is just horrible lol. Hopkins also hasn't been on a successful PPV in years and is fighting in Canada again because he can't match the gate Pascal can pull. Martinez might as well fight Pascal. you're also saying you want a fighter to step up and challenge himself but are excluding the P4P #1 and #2. Martinez can make 154, there are weight classes not size classes. i'd honestly rather see a big PPV where the fighter actually fucking earns his payday instead of a sparring session too.

seems like you really just don't want Pac and Mayweather to take on someone like Martinez, i guess you'd rather see them finish off their careers doing what you call "going after a wounded duck or picking on a smaller fighter to get rich". personally i'd rather see the best fight the best.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 17 2011, 09:17 PM) *
Martinez might as well fight Pascal. you're also saying you want a fighter to step up and challenge himself but are excluding the P4P #1 and #2. Martinez can make 154, there are weight classes not size classes. i'd honestly rather see a big PPV where the fighter actually fucking earns his payday instead of a sparring session too.

seems like you really just don't want Pac and Mayweather to take on someone like Martinez, i guess you'd rather see them finish off their careers doing what you call "going after a wounded duck or picking on a smaller fighter to get rich". personally i'd rather see the best fight the best.


Yeah but there's a reason why it is called 'pound for pound.'

I bet you thought it was real impressive when Floyd came back and beat up a piss drinking midget who was also 'p4p' at the time too huh?

Sure both Floyd and Manny have tentatively dipped their toes in the 154 pound division but only for special reasons. 1st for Floyd to fight the biggest cash cow in the history of the sport (who was also semi-retired at the time) and further his own career in the process and secondly for Manny to win a farcical 8th title and even then it was at a CW.

Don't be so fucken retarded by calling for Floyd or Manny to meet Martinez. Both guys have ZERO business fighting at 154, especially against a guy who is a true 154 pounder and very active. They are just too small to compete with a guy like that. A win for Martinez would be meaningless.

There are enough good challenges coming for him at 154 and especially 160. Definately it's a bummer for him that the 2 biggest paying fights are just 1 weight division away from him but it is what it is. Suck it up and move on.
Fitz
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 18 2011, 03:22 PM) *
especially against a guy who is a true 154 pounder and very active. They are just too small to compete with a guy like that. A win for Martinez would be meaningless.


Agreed Ollie, but I would go a step further and say he is beyond that, he is now a true 160 pounder.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Sorry but Manny fought at a CW of 150. He has never fought at a full contracted 154 and to me it would be ridiculous to expect him to fight a guy who is current the Middleweight champion of the world. That's just silly.

I'll grant you this, Floyd did fight at the contracted 154 pounds but taking an Oscar fight is and always will be the exception to the rule. De la Hoya was not a Martinez sized 154 pounder either.

It's bit like when Jones went up and fought Ruiz for a once off shot at a portion of the HW title. It was a calculated risk in a special occassion, to some degree a cherry pick and I'm pretty sure most of us knew it was highly unlikely we'd see him back at HW again. And if you'd said to me he should fight a Klit I would give you the same reply as the one I give you for PBF or Pac fighting Martinez.

Silly.
SENTRAL
Gravytrain, Andy Lee is a ranked middleweight and I would definitely bet with you he would not last 3 rounds with Lemieux.  It would be a slaughter.  If they boxed next week there isn't the slightest hope Lee would win.  Rubio is an ideal fight to test Lemieux next and if he wins that one he could meet Chavez jr or Zbik.  Early KO wins in both.  He is nearly there, I have magnificent faith in him and for you to flat out dismiss him is churlish.
EAlbian
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 17 2011, 09:17 PM) *
are you reading what you write? Martinez going up 2 divisions to fight Hopkins is gonna be a good choice yet him fighting someone at 154 a division he can still compete in and other fighters have fought in is just horrible lol. Hopkins also hasn't been on a successful PPV in years and is fighting in Canada again because he can't match the gate Pascal can pull. Martinez might as well fight Pascal. you're also saying you want a fighter to step up and challenge himself but are excluding the P4P #1 and #2. Martinez can make 154, there are weight classes not size classes. i'd honestly rather see a big PPV where the fighter actually fucking earns his payday instead of a sparring session too.

seems like you really just don't want Pac and Mayweather to take on someone like Martinez, i guess you'd rather see them finish off their careers doing what you call "going after a wounded duck or picking on a smaller fighter to get rich". personally i'd rather see the best fight the best.


So Floyd or Manny going up 6lbs is ok but Martinez going up 8 is not? Manny was fighthing at 140 2 years ago, Martinez was fighting at 154 2 years ago. So Manny should fight 14 lbs north of where he was 2 years ago but Martinez cant fight 14 lbs north of where he was 2 years ago?

The point is i think he beats all of the 154lbers easy, i think he is in good fights at 168. I want to see good fights. Sturm sucks, he's fought nobody. i dont get what this forums obsession is with Sturm and Cintron, they are both garbage. Sturm's best win is what? Cintrons best win is what?

You like to argue only one part of my statements instead of legit answering the questions i pose to you.

Bute is a bigger star in Canada then Pascal is and that is the fight i would like to see.

I have given up on Pac and May, and more so on Mayweather because he runs his own show. Pac is told what to do by Arum, or at least thats his cop out. I wish they would challenge themselves but they are trying to beat eachother without actually fighting, it fucking gay to say the least.

It seems as though you are arguing this as for Martinez to take the Pac or May path, thats the wrong way as i see it. Sturm is a nobody outside of Germany, shit there are three German fighters all around the smae weight and they wouldnt fight eachother( Sturm, Dz, Abraham) 2 of which were champions at the same time and weight.

Whats a bigger win in your opinion, A Martinez win over Bute or a win over Sturm? which fight would he make more money? which fight would you as a boxing fan respect more?
Maxy
I don't care for Martinez at super middle AT ALL. He can have a go up there once the super six is over if he wants to, though it'll be a mistake, but Froch-Ward is my primary interest followed by the winner of that facing Bute. End of the day I don't think Martinez is gonna get the fights you want him to take EAlbian. No disrespect to you but his best bet of leaving a legacy is a solid reign at his best weight and that ain't nowhere north of 160.
EAlbian
QUOTE (Maxy @ Mar 18 2011, 09:58 AM) *
I don't care for Martinez at super middle AT ALL. He can have a go up there once the super six is over if he wants to, though it'll be a mistake, but Froch-Ward is my primary interest followed by the winner of that facing Bute. End of the day I don't think Martinez is gonna get the fights you want him to take EAlbian. No disrespect to you but his best bet of leaving a legacy is a solid reign at his best weight and that ain't nowhere north of 160.


Thats fine, i'd like to see Froch-Ward as well. I think if he called for any of those names he could get them, the problem is all you hear out of him is Cotto, Mayweather, and Pac. I wish he would just say i'll fight them, or say i'll fight the winner of the super 6 when it's resolved.

Do you not think Martinez could compete at 168? I think he has all of the tools to beat Froch, pose a threat to Bute in what i think could be a fight of the year, and give Ward a tough fight.

I'd like to see if Pavlik can rebound, i think him and Froch make for an excellent fight. Ward-Bute would be a good fight. Cloud-Froch could be pretty entertaining and would like to see Dawson-Dirrell
Maxy
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Mar 18 2011, 11:09 AM) *
Thats fine, i'd like to see Froch-Ward as well. I think if he called for any of those names he could get them, the problem is all you hear out of him is Cotto, Mayweather, and Pac. I wish he would just say i'll fight them, or say i'll fight the winner of the super 6 when it's resolved.

Do you not think Martinez could compete at 168? I think he has all of the tools to beat Froch, pose a threat to Bute in what i think could be a fight of the year, and give Ward a tough fight.

I'd like to see if Pavlik can rebound, i think him and Froch make for an excellent fight. Ward-Bute would be a good fight. Cloud-Froch could be pretty entertaining and would like to see Dawson-Dirrell


Nah, I'm a totally biased Froch fan and besides I think Carl is too big for him. I know Martinez walks around much heavier than he fights but it don't cut no ice with me mate. Pavlik, he's always been overrated anyway so I don't care where he goes or what he does. he's nothing in the big picture no more. Bute has other fish to fry. We all wanna see who is the premier super middleweight. It looks like it will be Ward but until everything is done and dusted we don't know for sure. Martinez just don't fit in at the minute in my opinion and I don't care for him fighting Floyd or Pac either. They need to sort their own shit out before even thinking about a move up to 160. In fact, Pac could never go that high and Floyd, he's finished, he's retired. Love him to prove me wrong and actually sign to fight a live body but I can't see it happening.
EAlbian
QUOTE (Maxy @ Mar 18 2011, 10:15 AM) *
Nah, I'm a totally biased Froch fan and besides I think Carl is too big for him. I know Martinez walks around much heavier than he fights but it don't cut no ice with me mate. Pavlik, he's always been overrated anyway so I don't care where he goes or what he does. he's nothing in the big picture no more. Bute has other fish to fry. We all wanna see who is the premier super middleweight. It looks like it will be Ward but until everything is done and dusted we don't know for sure. Martinez just don't fit in at the minute in my opinion and I don't care for him fighting Floyd or Pac either. They need to sort their own shit out before even thinking about a move up to 160. In fact, Pac could never go that high and Floyd, he's finished, he's retired. Love him to prove me wrong and actually sign to fight a live body but I can't see it happening.



I wouldn't say Pavlik is completly overrated, he did knock out and UD a prime Taylor who slapped your boy Froch around for 10 rounds. Pavlik has a lot of proving to do in his next two fights but i think if Ward beats Froch a Pavlik fight is a good place for him to go to.

I agree with you on Pac and May, they need to fight each other there are no other fights for them that elevate their careers.

I think lara or Pirog could be good fights for Martinez but they both need to step up their levels of competiton especially Lara. If Sturm is finally ready to have a real fight i guess that is Martinez only option at this point.

Maybe he fights Allan Green to test SMW and who is also a DiBella fighter
Maxy
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Mar 18 2011, 11:42 AM) *
I wouldn't say Pavlik is completly overrated, he did knock out and UD a prime Taylor who slapped your boy Froch around for 10 rounds. Pavlik has a lot of proving to do in his next two fights but i think if Ward beats Froch a Pavlik fight is a good place for him to go to.

I agree with you on Pac and May, they need to fight each other there are no other fights for them that elevate their careers.

I think lara or Pirog could be good fights for Martinez but they both need to step up their levels of competiton especially Lara. If Sturm is finally ready to have a real fight i guess that is Martinez only option at this point.

Maybe he fights Allan Green to test SMW and who is also a DiBella fighter


I'd love to see Froch break Pavlik in bits. Pummel his already failing liver and destroy him once and for all.
EAlbian
QUOTE (Maxy @ Mar 18 2011, 10:53 AM) *
I'd love to see Froch break Pavlik in bits. Pummel his already failing liver and destroy him once and for all.


haha, i wouldn't mind seeing Pavlik rearrange Froch's crooked teeth with a straight right. Prob do him some good with all the crowding he has going on in his mouth, i guess all that money still cant buy a brit a decent denist
Maxy
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Mar 18 2011, 12:14 PM) *
haha, i wouldn't mind seeing Pavlik rearrange Froch's crooked teeth with a straight right. Prob do him some good with all the crowding he has going on in his mouth, i guess all that money still cant buy a brit a decent denist


Nah mate, he ain't gonna go down the yankee route of having ultra bright, pristine white, straight as a row of houses teeth. He's a fighter not a freak. We like our teeth how they are and we like our birds tits to be real. In fact, the less we copy the alien looking weirdo's from over the pond the better.

fuck.gif
EAlbian
QUOTE (Maxy @ Mar 18 2011, 11:51 AM) *
Nah mate, he ain't gonna go down the yankee route of having ultra bright, pristine white, straight as a row of houses teeth. He's a fighter not a freak. We like our teeth how they are and we like our birds tits to be real. In fact, the less we copy the alien looking weirdo's from over the pond the better.

fuck.gif



Haha
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Maxy @ Mar 18 2011, 11:51 AM) *
Nah mate, he ain't gonna go down the yankee route of having ultra bright, pristine white, straight as a row of houses teeth. He's a fighter not a freak. We like our teeth how they are and we like our birds tits to be real. In fact, the less we copy the alien looking weirdo's from over the pond the better.

fuck.gif


Bernard Hopkins takes exception to that comment.
mexi-cutioner
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 18 2011, 02:47 PM) *
Bernard Hopkins takes exception to that comment.

So does Jason Litzau, I mean, if he still has the mental capacity to take exception to that comment lol. No offense to Litzau, but he punch drunk as fuuuuuuu
gravytrain
QUOTE (EAlbian @ Mar 18 2011, 09:52 AM) *
So Floyd or Manny going up 6lbs is ok but Martinez going up 8 is not? Manny was fighthing at 140 2 years ago, Martinez was fighting at 154 2 years ago. So Manny should fight 14 lbs north of where he was 2 years ago but Martinez cant fight 14 lbs north of where he was 2 years ago?


you said going up to SMW is a better move for him financially and i've been saying fighting the top guys at 147-154 would. simple as that. if you don't think wins over Mayweather, Margarito, Pac, and Cotto could have a guy doing pretty well in boxing then you'd be about as good of an adviser as Greg Leon lol.


QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Mar 18 2011, 09:32 AM) *
Gravytrain, Andy Lee is a ranked middleweight and I would definitely bet with you he would not last 3 rounds with Lemieux. It would be a slaughter. If they boxed next week there isn't the slightest hope Lee would win. Rubio is an ideal fight to test Lemieux next and if he wins that one he could meet Chavez jr or Zbik. Early KO wins in both. He is nearly there, I have magnificent faith in him and for you to flat out dismiss him is churlish.


probably because he's looking good against bums and has only been fighting bums. it's like thinking my white ass is about to dunk from the baseline on a regulation hoop because i can do it on the 8 foot.

QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 18 2011, 08:12 AM) *
Sorry but Manny fought at a CW of 150. He has never fought at a full contracted 154 and to me it would be ridiculous to expect him to fight a guy who is current the Middleweight champion of the world. That's just silly.

I'll grant you this, Floyd did fight at the contracted 154 pounds but taking an Oscar fight is and always will be the exception to the rule. De la Hoya was not a Martinez sized 154 pounder either.

It's bit like when Jones went up and fought Ruiz for a once off shot at a portion of the HW title. It was a calculated risk in a special occassion, to some degree a cherry pick and I'm pretty sure most of us knew it was highly unlikely we'd see him back at HW again. And if you'd said to me he should fight a Klit I would give you the same reply as the one I give you for PBF or Pac fighting Martinez.

Silly.


Pac fought for a JMW title and was a JMW champion, if he didn't want to face another JMW fighter he shouldn't have fought in the division. it's pretty simple. Margarito is also a Martinez sized JMW fighter, if size wasn't an issue then it shouldn't be now. if it's not the size then Martinez is just the better man. the situation is similar with Mayweather too, he'd no issue going against the bigger DLH for the 154lb strap. Martinez is bigger but there are no size requirements in weight classes, if he makes 154 then it'll only be a fight in a division Mayweather was a champion in.



QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 17 2011, 11:22 PM) *
Yeah but there's a reason why it is called 'pound for pound.'

I bet you thought it was real impressive when Floyd came back and beat up a piss drinking midget who was also 'p4p' at the time too huh?

Sure both Floyd and Manny have tentatively dipped their toes in the 154 pound division but only for special reasons. 1st for Floyd to fight the biggest cash cow in the history of the sport (who was also semi-retired at the time) and further his own career in the process and secondly for Manny to win a farcical 8th title and even then it was at a CW.

Don't be so fucken retarded by calling for Floyd or Manny to meet Martinez. Both guys have ZERO business fighting at 154, especially against a guy who is a true 154 pounder and very active. They are just too small to compete with a guy like that. A win for Martinez would be meaningless.

There are enough good challenges coming for him at 154 and especially 160. Definately it's a bummer for him that the 2 biggest paying fights are just 1 weight division away from him but it is what it is. Suck it up and move on.


yeah and there's a reason why it's called the JMW division, it's a division you fight in for a JMW title or against a fighter weighing no more than 154 pounds. if you win a strap then you're a titlist, if you're too small for the division don't compete in it.

the fights have something for all the fighters to gain. if you guys haven't caught on to name on a fighters resume being able to help their career regardless of the circumstances then you're either daft or haven't learned the history of the sport. when Marciano knocked Joe Louis out no one gave 2 shits about Louis being an old balding man who only fought because he'd to pay the IRS, it's Joe Louis. same with all the other similar fights in the history of boxing and what currently happens. if Pac beats Martinez then he would probably be a top 10 ATG, if Mayweather beats him it'll definitely help his legacy, and if Martinez won both fights he'd have the names of the 2 best of his era on the W column. all of them are guaranteed to make money, all of them guarantee Martinez sees a small amount of it, and to be honest Mayweather/Martinez would do a hell of a lot better than a Martinez fight with Pac so it'd probably be about the biggest payday out there other than Pac. i rarely even buy PPVs and i'd get it just for the chance to see Mayweather get beat up on and i really doubt i'd be the only one.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 19 2011, 01:08 AM) *
the fights have something for all the fighters to gain. if you guys haven't caught on to name on a fighters resume being able to help their career regardless of the circumstances then you're either daft or haven't learned the history of the sport. when Marciano knocked Joe Louis out no one gave 2 shits about Louis being an old balding man who only fought because he'd to pay the IRS, it's Joe Louis. same with all the other similar fights in the history of boxing and what currently happens. if Pac beats Martinez then he would probably be a top 10 ATG, if Mayweather beats him it'll definitely help his legacy, and if Martinez won both fights he'd have the names of the 2 best of his era on the W column. all of them are guaranteed to make money, all of them guarantee Martinez sees a small amount of it, and to be honest Mayweather/Martinez would do a hell of a lot better than a Martinez fight with Pac so it'd probably be about the biggest payday out there other than Pac. i rarely even buy PPVs and i'd get it just for the chance to see Mayweather get beat up on and i really doubt i'd be the only one.


Gravy I completely understand that it is the best for Martinez to fight Pac and May regardless of what advantages he holds.

Regarding Pac and May is it possible that both fought at 154 and realised it was a division too far? Would it not be fair to say a guy dipped his toe in the water and found it was too deep to swim in? I'd say Floyd looked more comfortable at 154 than Manny but I suspect regardless of the fact that he beat Margarito good Manny realised he really wasn't built to take the shots of a true 150+ guy.

I think that the fight took more out of Pac than he let on and he knows that 147 really is his limit. Put this way would it be unreasonable that he paases on fighting anyone again at 154?
The CEO
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Mar 19 2011, 02:08 AM) *
Pac fought for a JMW title and was a JMW champion, if he didn't want to face another JMW fighter he shouldn't have fought in the division. it's pretty simple. Margarito is also a Martinez sized JMW fighter, if size wasn't an issue then it shouldn't be now. if it's not the size then Martinez is just the better man. the situation is similar with Mayweather too, he'd no issue going against the bigger DLH for the 154lb strap. Martinez is bigger but there are no size requirements in weight classes, if he makes 154 then it'll only be a fight in a division Mayweather was a champion in.


yeah and there's a reason why it's called the JMW division, it's a division you fight in for a JMW title or against a fighter weighing no more than 154 pounds. if you win a strap then you're a titlist, if you're too small for the division don't compete in it.


Nailed, Gravy... ok.gif


Here's what I posted (roughly) in the comments section of a front page article on the subject...yeah...I've been puttin' it to the tards in there from time to time...lol

Pacquiao should have NEVER fought at Junior Middleweight...because that's SERGIO MARTINEZ TERRITORY.

Martinez only moved up to Middle a little over a year ago. He's never fought at 168. He says he can make 154...

Manny Pacquiao has basically made himself fair game and is FINALLY paying the price for his paper title chasing.
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