He is limited but I would still to this day take him over Anculo. Just as long as Anne Wolfe is in his corner.

I would take him as long as AnnWolfe would be fighting for him.

people thought Kirkland was bad ass... good his jail bird convict ass got pummeled... aura of invincibility tarnished and his overrated ass is put into perspective...

i would say im more correct... your argument is that kirkland is a bum... kirkland hasnt had a bums career to this point... the kid would have to really start losing to make bum status... 1 loss dont all of a sudden make kirkland a bum... and here is the kicker about our discussion... we are going back and fourth about rather or not kirkland is a bum and no where have i ever said this dude was ever gonna be a champ.. but i know a bum when i see one and kirkland is very far from being a bum... he may not be a future champ or he could be we dont know but he is not a bum either... and i disagree about that jap kid as well... he just lost his interim wba belt fight before kirkland in a sd.. yes, he was brought in as a opponent for kirkland but i think they overlooked that guy and ran into a guy that was ready to fight and had the skill set to deal with what kirkland had to offer... like i say... we can go back and fourth but you will never make me see or feel kirkland as a bum fighter nor the jap for that matter and while i whole heartedly dont agree with your opinion it is yours and its these differences in opinion that make for good boxing talk so i dont know what else to say... this conversation has found a complete circle in what we have to discuss... lol..

Totally agree! Don't think the outcome would have been any different but at least give the dude a chance to to prove him self, specially when he appeared conscious and was attempting to get up.

There have been many instances where a ref well wave the fight off the moment the fighter hits the deck in other circumstances which can be understandable..but I don't think this was one of them. Sure he didn't have the steadiest legs, but it's not like he was out on his feet prior or was absorbing concerning punishment. Had he allowed him to use the rule of the standing 8 count, then make the judgment apposed to waving the fight and holding him down within the count of 3 arguing with the fighters right to continue.



That's one of the first things I thought after this fight. There was no 3 knockdown rule and Pac-Marquez is a perfect example on why it's not always the best/accurate rule to have. Imagine if that fight went down as Pacquaio TKO1 Marquez instead of the fight that ended up unfolding!?



Haha, Kirkland was physically trying to get away from the hold and Cortez literally had to repositioned the knee to get a better hold on him.


I don't think this would have made a difference in this particular case and based on how Ishida put Kirkland down 3 times the way he did I really don't think James Kirkland future holds a lot of certainty.

I ain't looking to go there...BUT I will always question those shots that had him all over like a fish that jumped outta the tank!





lolzzzzzzzz! I dunno Ann might hit harder than that guy!

JLUV you've lost this plain and simple. Yeah I've called Kirkland a bum just for kicks but c'mon man you know what the thrust of my argument has alaways been. And that is Kirkland is an overrated hype job who I don't believe is much above decent journeyman status.

I don't think he'll even have half the career of an Edison Miranda.

I love the way you're trying to weasel out on semantics and focussing on the word 'bum' when you know it's being thrown around in jocular fashion. I guess that's what desperate men do in this situation, cling to the life raft of one word to help save their pointless argument

He'll lose soon again to someone of a similiar ilk as the Jap guy and that will be it, done and dusted. A large part of Kirkland's game was the intimidation factor, like this baddass is coming to get you. Like a poor man's Mike Tyson if you will. Once that aura is gone so a big part of his arenal disappears.

He'll have mid rated contenders lining up to fight him and they'll put him to sleep as well. The James Kirkland experience will be over within 12 months.

Well said bro...based off that fight Saturday night, James couldn't squeeze a pimple on Miranda's ass.

i didnt know we where competing, as you say i have lost... lol... and no dont change ya thoughts now... you called kirkland a bum... lol... thats your opinion and i cant help but respect it i just dont have to agree... the word bum has always been my issue with what you previously said, nothing more nothing less... you called him a bum... i then asked what made him a bum you responded and thats how we have continued to go back and fourth... never have i said or made the impression i felt kirkland was a future champion or highly touted, if anything i said his career is up in the air at this point but i wouldnt write him off over one bad showing in a fight.... and i wont.. i stand behind everything i say on this board rather in this thread or others... sometimes people agree sometimesthey dont but oh well... they are my thoghts just like you have your thoughts on these issues... if the james kirkland experience is over in 12 months so be it.. lol... wont hurt me none as im not a fan of his other than the fact thathe is a texas boy like ive said previously... maybe in that 12 month time he will have reached bum status or just maybe he wont but as of right now i see no reason to label kirkland a bum fighter.... and as far as me weaseling out of the convo thats very laughable... lol... we keep going in a circle bout this and its gotten old and now you are saying you called him a bum for kicks now... thats laughable in itself but anyways... lol... and im saying nothing out of desperation as i have nothing to be desperate about... lol...

This sounds like the smooth ole 'concession speech within a victory speech.' Silky stuff. I appreciate it JLUV, I really do. Brings a tear to my eye

concession?... if you would like to think so... lol.. what you are saying dont hold water... wish i knew how to put up a poll... im interested in knowing how many people on here really feel like you can reduce fighters to bum status off one fight when they have for the most part showed something positive to boxing and to have something in all of their previous fights?... what you are saying sounds like words coming from a person that just dont like the fighter (which its obvious you dont... lol) one and two the key word when giving your facts about kirkland is "I dont think and i feel"... you are giving me your opinion and i seriously doubt the feelings of that of the whole board... lets say kirkland rebounds from that fight and in his next fight ko's a wolak or a bundradge type fighter?... does he all of a sudden become a contender type fighter again?... he can go from contender to bum to contender again in a matter of 3 fights would be what you would have using your logic... lol... that shit dont make sense... you have a personal dislike for the guy and you can tell from your responses which is why its really not worth discussing anymore because we cant have a solid and sane conversation about kirkland because you come in to the convo a verified hater... so no matter what points i make all you know and see and will appreciate is yours... you have already realized that what you are saying doesnt make sense which is why you, after so many back and fourth comments we've had you came back and said you called kirkland a bum "JUST FOR KICKS"... Get the fuck outta here with that b.s... you have a genuine dislike for kirkland which is cool, you have that right... but thats also the reason why we can not have a logical conversation about the guy... cuzz while i could care less rather he sinks or swims, im calling your statement of him being a bum as i see it, you cant do the same... your dislike for kirkland makes him in your mind a bum from day one... thats your opinion... have fun with it... lol..

Dude I'm 3 years into this site and still don't know how to use that quote function properly, LOL.

However I did find my own post on a Kirkland thread from about 3 weeks ago ago. It's back on page 3. Here it is:

"I've been meaning to comment on his for a while.

I'm torn with Kirkland. You see a video like the one above and you have so much respect and goodwill for the guy. He's made mistakes and owns up to them without any BS excuses. The dude just seems like he wants to be a better man.

He obviously trains his ass off, comes in shape and has a real fighter's heart. Yet.....................

I just watched his fight with Berrio which he won in a couple of rounds, but the guy is so easy to hit. And I don't think he's got a granite chin. Anyone with solid technique who doesn't wilt under pressure and throws straight punches will KO this guy. Easily.

I actually think Alvarez would eat him up.

I do like Kirkland though, I hope he gets some nice paydays along the way and gets to look after his family."

Now you tell me how that is hate for the guy? I have NEVER rated him as a fighter that's all. Doesn't mean I don't like the guy. Boy you've got it twisted. You think because I don't happen to rate a guy as a fighter it means I must automtaically dislike the dude.

Stop being an ass.

that has nothing to do with what youve been discussing with me.. ass that... lol... and for the record you are resorting to name calling so you are obviously getting upset... calm down.. its not that big a deal to get your blood pressure up... so you double cross what you have to say.. its all good...

"For the record" who the freak uses language like that? Haha loves it. Thanks Perry Mason

"So you double cross what you have to say" I'd respond to this except I have no idea what you're saying.

And why did the quote I included have nothing to do with what we have been discussing? In your last post you accused me of hating Kirkland and this is the reason why I didn't rate him as a fighter.

Well that quote clearly shows that:

A) I don't hate James Kirkland the person

and:

Despite this fact I don't think his career will go very far.

2 distinctly different things I would've thought. What you have to remember is I made that post 2 weeks before Kirkland fought his last fight. And whaddya know? Bingo! He's sitting on his ass getting pinned by Gentleman Joe Cortez.

I tell you at the time I felt like Nostradamus except then I realised that predicting the demise of a walking KO-waiting-to-happen like James Kirkland was no real feat.

allight well i quit reading after it has become obvious we arent talking boxing anymore.. lol.. have a nice one ollie.

Does it really matter guys?

Hatton has been called a bum for getting knocked out against Manny. Pavlik has been called a bum by a great one, we have had Chavez get called a bum. All I know is Kirkland is well below them. He can be labelled what ever, but in the end, on a hierarchy ladder, he is pretty much well down on the ladder.