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caneman
I seen some guys blaming Cortez for a bad stoppage but I felt like Kirkland was taking those punches really badly! I didn't see that as a really bad stoppage @ all even if Cortez can seriously suck @ times.

One more thing, don't all of you feel like you could have taken those punches?
Snoop
Admittedly, I hate Cortez, but Ishida had Kirkland down AND hurt THREE times with more than a minute left in the round. Isn't much argument for a "bad stoppage" there.
TheFonz
What happened to his chin? This is a dude you walked through flush shot from Joel Julio, who is a known puncher.
caneman
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Apr 10 2011, 01:26 PM) *
What happened to his chin? This is a dude you walked through flush shot from Joel Julio, who is a known puncher.



Maybe something happened in prison that we don't know about! lol!
BigG
Kirkland should still keep busy anyway....He didnt box at all in prison and its still important to stay in the gym and fight as often as possible....He was wobbled in the fight before this and I've seen him down a few times in the past so his chim is suspect. Like Maidana, he doesnt have good technical skills but he's exciting but Maidana is tougher. Good for the Japanese fighter....

Kirkland better work on his defense and skill or else he's going to get KOed again once he steps him with the elite.
caneman
QUOTE (BigG @ Apr 10 2011, 01:42 PM) *
Kirkland should still keep busy anyway....He didnt box at all in prison and its still important to stay in the gym and fight as often as possible....He was wobbled in the fight before this and I've seen him down a few times in the past so his chim is suspect. Like Maidana, he doesnt have good technical skills but he's exciting but Maidana is tougher. Good for the Japanese fighter....

Kirkland better work on his defense and skill or else he's going to get KOed again once he steps him with the elite.



Yeah, I agree he should stay busy and same with Lemieux to be honest...only one fight but Kirkland has a serious chin issue & if those shots hurt him & it's gonna take more than a little defensive skills to change that!
D-MARV
I hated the stoppage! I wanted to see Kirkland lay motionless.

The ref did Kirkland a favor. He was fucked up so bad he thought he wasn't hurt!
HaydelHammer
I talked to the guys at my gym today and they laughed at kirkland @ss.

You pick a jap guy with no punching power, coming out party (basically first rd KO party) and YOU get KO'd in the 1st............

all this = career is over. James is DONE ya'll. Period point blank. He is a gym spar imo. Espn fighter from here on out if he continues. He's done.
ViperSniper
I didn't really like how Cortez pinned Kirkland down with his knee and held him there. At least give him a chance to beat the count, then make that judgment. Either way though it may have not made a difference and Kirkland should have not found him self on the floor 3 times in minutes of the 1st round by punchers that didn't look so hard.

Good win for the Japanese!!
caneman
I wonder if that fight was fixed? I don't get it either way! See here's the thing, after watching it again a few times, I know for a fact I could have handled every one of those punches & even slipped them...that 1st lefthand was nothing & none were killer punches & yet a pro is flopping around like a fish? IDK now....something smells really bad!
caneman
hell nah bullshit!


Fitz
I was watching it, and what an upset. Weren't guys having hopes on him and his 'come back', to maybe give Martinez a challenge in the future?

Yah, back to the drawing board guys.
BrutalBodyShots
What a lousy performance.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Kirkland even pre-prison was wild, sloppy and chinny. He was always going to be this years Darnell Wilson, except the Ding-A-Ling Man prolly took a better shot than Kirkland.

Kirkland is now officially over. It doesn't matter if he goes back to Ann Wolfe, as Snoop mentioned you can't really change chins. Seriously this sguys chin makes Roy's look like it's made out titanium. No mean feat.
kidbazooka1
Kirkland is the better prospect all the way he'll rebound from that loss IMO but Lemieux is what he is and thats nothing more than a C level fighter at best.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Apr 11 2011, 02:40 AM) *
Kirkland is the better prospect all the way he'll rebound from that loss IMO but Lemieux is what he is and thats nothing more than a C level fighter at best.


If you think Kirkland is any kind of prospect you are nuts. I don't give a fuck about lay offs or whatever else, you simply don't lose to the level of fighter he lost to. You just don't.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Apr 11 2011, 01:48 AM) *
If you think Kirkland is any kind of prospect you are nuts. I don't give a fuck about lay offs or whatever else, you simply don't lose to the level of fighter he lost to. You just don't.


hate to keep beating this record but khan did lose to bredis prescott... just saying... lol...
JLUVBABY
I know most of you guys arent big fans of mayweather sr but i read an interesting article of his opinion on the kirkland fight.... mayweather sr's opinion on the kirkland stoppage
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Apr 11 2011, 01:54 AM) *
hate to keep beating this record but khan did lose to bredis prescott... just saying... lol...


Prescott was a better prospect than this crap. Kirkland has looked chinny right from the very start of his career. It isn't some problem that has suddenly cropped up.

Oh well I guess if you were beating the drums for him before this fight, and if God knows how, you can find a way to keep banging the drum for him after this loss, than more power to you (and where can I get what you're smoking?)
AussieLad
He should have been allowed to continue, and the ref held him down. Not saying the outcome would have been much different, but he looked like he was capable of beating the count fairly easily
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Apr 11 2011, 02:31 AM) *
Prescott was a better prospect than this crap. Kirkland has looked chinny right from the very start of his career. It isn't some problem that has suddenly cropped up.

Oh well I guess if you were beating the drums for him before this fight, and if God knows how, you can find a way to keep banging the drum for him after this loss, than more power to you (and where can I get what you're smoking?)


im far from banging drums for the guy... i saw what happened but im not gonna label the guy a bum off one awful night either... as far as comparing prescott to the japenese guy that beat kirkland.. well i cant speak for anybody else but i had never heard of the guy (prescott) going into the khan fight... and since his defeat of khan he hasnt done much other than lose a couple of fights... the japenese guy rather a paper champion or not did at least at one time hold a strap... and he went out there motivated that he could win and took care of business on kirkland... whats in store for kirkland next?... hell if i know i was one of the first to say the kid needs a new trainer and that if they fought again id favor the jap again under the same conditions... so if my willingness to not call him a bum after such a defeat is beating his drums then so be it i suppose... lol... i was having a similar discussion with gravy in the lemieux thread bout rather lemieux is a bum after one loss or not... i wont do it... what i will say is neither guy is the contender some of us thought them to be... but bums... i wont label them as bums just yet... and for the record i was beating drums for kirkland before the fight... out of the 154 prospects he is one i havent thought much about recently because of his layoff and actually looked at the fight as a potential dangerous fight if anything for kirkland leading up to saturday (my thought was that he was being pushed to quick that fight being i want to say his 3rd this year)... other than the fact he's a texas boy and like to see our prospects do a lil sumthin i hadnt put much thought into him and never stated an opinion on the outcome of this fight leading into saturdays fight... so where you get that from is beyond me... lol...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Apr 11 2011, 03:32 AM) *
He should have been allowed to continue, and the ref held him down. Not saying the outcome would have been much different, but he looked like he was capable of beating the count fairly easily


he could have beat the count aussie but it may be best for his confidence overall that the ref didnt allow him to continue... he can always tell himself had the ref let him up he would have found away to win that fight... which i dont believe as almost every punch the jap landed flush after the first kd punch seemed to hurt him (i never thought he fully got his legs back after that first kd...)...
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Apr 11 2011, 04:18 AM) *
im far from banging drums for the guy... i saw what happened but im not gonna label the guy a bum off one awful night either... as far as comparing prescott to the japenese guy that beat kirkland.. well i cant speak for anybody else but i had never heard of the guy going into the khan fight... and since his defeat of khan he hasnt done much other than lose a couple of fights... the japenese guy rather a paper champion or not did at least at one time hold a strap... and he went out there motivated that he could win and took care of business on kirkland... whats in store for kirkland next?... hell if i know i was one of the first to say the kid needs a new trainer and that if they fought again id favor the jap again under the same conditions... so if my willingness to not call him a bum after such a defeat is beating his drums then so be it i suppose... lol... i was having a similar discussion with gravy in the lemieux thread bout rather lemieux is a bum after one loss or not... i wont do it... what i will say is neither guy is the contender some of us thought them to be... but bums... i wont label them as bums just yet... and for the record i was beating drums for kirkland before the fight... out of the 154 prospects he is one i havent thought much about recently because of his layoff and actually looked at the fight as a potential dangerous fight if anything for kirkland leading up to saturday (my thought was that he was being pushed to quick that fight being i want to say his 3rd this year)... other than the fact he's a texas boy and like to see our prospects do a lil sumthin i hadnt put much thought into him and never stated an opinion on the outcome of this fight leading into saturdays fight... so where you get that from is beyond me... lol...


I'm far from saying Kirkland is a bum based on this fight, I've been saying he was a bum from day one, even before going to prison. Feel free to check archived posts on the subject. Kirkland is for me a bit like Pavlik was for Fitz (except without K-Pav's acheivements.) I've just never been sold on the guy. Never ever. I never got what everyone was talking about and for me this loss is more about vindication of that belief rather than just throwing the dude under the bus for one bad performance.

You appear prepared to give him somewhat of a pass and see what the future holds. Well I'll do you a favour and tell you what Kirkland's future holds right now. Another KO loss to a journeyman level fighter.

This guy will never make it to championship level. I do hope he remains out of jail and wish him well in his future career........................as a taxi driver.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Apr 11 2011, 04:25 AM) *
I'm far from saying Kirkland is a bum based on this fight, I've been saying he was a bum from day one, even before going to prison. Feel free to check archived posts on the subject. Kirkland is for me a bit like Pavlik was for Fitz (except without K-Pav's acheivements.) I've just never been sold on the guy. Never ever. I never got what everyone was talking about and for me this loss is more about vindication of that belief rather than just throwing the dude under the bus for one bad performance.

You appear prepared to give him somewhat of a pass and see what the future holds. Well I'll do you a favour and tell you what Kirkland's future holds right now. Another KO loss to a journeyman level fighter.

This guy will never make it to championship level. I do hope he remains out of jail and wish him well in his future career........................as a taxi driver.


ok... i better understand your stance now... you just dont like the guy... lol... maybe he wont ever be a champ.. i wont say he ever will either at this point either... but i wont call him a bum after his first loss is what im saying.... a lot of fighters never became champ... does that make them bum fighters since they never wore a belt?
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (caneman @ Apr 10 2011, 10:24 PM) *
I wonder if that fight was fixed? I don't get it either way! See here's the thing, after watching it again a few times, I know for a fact I could have handled every one of those punches & even slipped them...that 1st lefthand was nothing & none were killer punches & yet a pro is flopping around like a fish? IDK now....something smells really bad!



Nobody is mentioning loaded gloves. The punches didn't look like they had much on them. It was almost embarrassing how light they looked. Couple this with the guys record. He had only 7 previous KO's. Something looked and smelled fishy. On the other side of this, is Kirkland the next Jeff Lacy?
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Apr 11 2011, 04:30 AM) *
ok... i better understand your stance now... you just dont like the guy... lol... maybe he wont ever be a champ.. i wont say he ever will either at this point either... but i wont call him a bum after his first loss is what im saying.... a lot of fighters never became champ... does that make them bum fighters since they never wore a belt?


Nope but in this case Kirkland is a bum laugh.gif funnily enough I don't mind the guy. I have seen several interviews since he came out of the slammer and he seems very humble and makes no excuses, good for him.

That loss though that's been comin for a while. Even check out some of pre-prison footage, this really shouldn't have surprised anyone.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Apr 11 2011, 04:36 AM) *
Nobody is mentioning loaded gloves. The punches didn't look like they had much on them. It was almost embarrassing how light they looked. Couple this with the guys record. He had only 7 previous KO's. Something looked and smelled fishy. On the other side of this, is Kirkland the next Jeff Lacy?


Jeff Lacy won a strap. Big difference.

James is closer to Darnell Wilson or possibly Edison Miranda, though I think Miranda was a little better than Kirkland.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Apr 11 2011, 04:36 AM) *
Nope but in this case Kirkland is a bum laugh.gif funnily enough I don't mind the guy. I have seen several interviews since he came out of the slammer and he seems very humble and makes no excuses, good for him.

That loss though that's been comin for a while. Even check out some of pre-prison footage, this really shouldn't have surprised anyone.


like i say we could go back and fourth on this... not really worth it... you call him a bum i dont... lol... we will see in due time where he's at... i dont think he ever fully recovered from the first shot that put him down... rather they where hard or not apparently they where hard to him... lol... so with that said we shall see.. maybe my opinion of him would be different, but he has stood up to better shots in the past... i think he just got caught with the right punch on the right spot and simply could never recover.... it happens.. everything after that initial punch that dropped him that landed hurt him and for sure had him wobbled... he never got his legs back... well least thats what i saw... maybe hes a bum like you say... time will tell... lol...
Snoop
I wonder if over-activity had anything to do with the lack of resiliency to take punches. Wasn't it like his 3rd fight in a month or something?
Maxy
QUOTE (Snoop @ Apr 11 2011, 09:25 AM) *
I wonder if over-activity had anything to do with the lack of resiliency to take punches. Wasn't it like his 3rd fight in a month or something?


Highly unlikely. His chin makes Amir Khans look like George Chuvalo. He got exposed and definitely ain't gonna make any noise in the future.
caneman
QUOTE (Snoop @ Apr 11 2011, 09:25 AM) *
I wonder if over-activity had anything to do with the lack of resiliency to take punches. Wasn't it like his 3rd fight in a month or something?



Well many guys fought on the reg...I might bring him up too often but Greb fought almost weekly and not against pussies(RJJ is a guy who fought a lot early on) just to pad a record. I would think so called street guy would be a bit tougher myself. That 1st punch didn't hit shit, in fact kirklady's chin hit his shoulder harder. Sorry but I think 1 of 2 things happened myself...he threw the fight or he ain't nothing and I do wonder what really happened in prison with him. On another note, it's time for Cortez to retire I think!
TheFonz
I wouldn't write him off so quickly based on the FACT that he took flush shots from Joel Julio who known for his punch. I will chalk that performance as fluke for now.
Maxy
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Apr 11 2011, 02:53 PM) *
I wouldn't write him off so quickly based on the FACT that he took flush shots from Joel Julio who known for his punch. I will chalk that performance as fluke for now.


Don't delude yourself. That was no fluke. Julio was then, this is now. He was hurt by Berrio (?) and then fucked up by a non punching Japanese no hoper.

Kirkland is fucked. Forget about him.
TheFonz
QUOTE (Maxy @ Apr 11 2011, 03:10 PM) *
Don't delude yourself. That was no fluke. Julio was then, this is now. He was hurt by Berrio (?) and then fucked up by a non punching Japanese no hoper.

Kirkland is fucked. Forget about him.



Like I said, I'm not going to write him off just yet. Last I checked fighters don't normally go from having an OK chin to having a completely shitty one without someone cracking it. I will stay tuned for his next fight.
jlupi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDRAwf2dY2o
lloyd mayflower
Normally I dont go in for writing someone off after one loss, and Kirkland is a special case with what hes been through, but the manner of that loss makes me side with Maxy on this one. I feel James is a spent force already. Shame cos he was at least a bit entertaining
Maxy
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Apr 11 2011, 02:13 PM) *
Like I said, I'm not going to write him off just yet. Last I checked fighters don't normally go from having an OK chin to having a completely shitty one without someone cracking it. I will stay tuned for his next fight.


But when you get cracked by a complete non puncher it's gotta be foolish to think the fella has any major future in the game. He's fucked as a prospect, his future is bleak.
Tha Docta
im glad cortez didnt referee the first marquez vs paquiao fight cause we wouldve been robbed of a great fight. i cant stand cortez. yeah, dude got dropped 3 times, but he was landing punches in between the knockdowns too. basically, cortez robbed kirkland of a chance to learn during this fight and cost him dearly. why not give him a chance to get up and then make your decision to stop the fight? i bet it wouldve been one hell of an entertaining fight however long it lasted.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Apr 11 2011, 01:53 PM) *
I wouldn't write him off so quickly based on the FACT that he took flush shots from Joel Julio who known for his punch. I will chalk that performance as fluke for now.


Actually Fonz I would call the Julio fight more a fluke. Why? Because in fights before that he was buzzed by much lighter punching guys and in fights after that he was buzzed (and now KO-ed) against lighter punching guys.

It's the Julio fight that was different from all the rest, not the other way round.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Apr 11 2011, 01:53 PM) *
I wouldn't write him off so quickly based on the FACT that he took flush shots from Joel Julio who known for his punch. I will chalk that performance as fluke for now.



QUOTE (Tha Docta @ Apr 11 2011, 03:14 PM) *
im glad cortez didnt referee the first marquez vs paquiao fight cause we wouldve been robbed of a great fight. i cant stand cortez. yeah, dude got dropped 3 times, but he was landing punches in between the knockdowns too. basically, cortez robbed kirkland of a chance to learn during this fight and cost him dearly. why not give him a chance to get up and then make your decision to stop the fight? i bet it wouldve been one hell of an entertaining fight however long it lasted.

Agree with both of these. That was a bad stoppage.

Not a good look for Kirkland though. Back to the drawing board.
AussieLad
At the very least he should have let him stand and then assessed his ability to continue, rather than just holding him down with no count.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Apr 11 2011, 05:35 PM) *
At the very least he should have let him stand and then assessed his ability to continue, rather than just holding him down with no count.


Remember though, "he's fair but he's firm."

So firm in fact he had Kirkland pinned to the canvas for the 3 count laugh.gif
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Apr 11 2011, 02:35 PM) *
At the very least he should have let him stand and then assessed his ability to continue, rather than just holding him down with no count.

QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Apr 11 2011, 04:37 PM) *
Remember though, "he's fair but he's firm."

So firm in fact he had Kirkland pinned to the canvas for the 3 count laugh.gif

I agree, DownUnderling. Kirkland was getting caught with lefts he couldn't see coming and his legs couldn't handle it, though he did not seem dazed, even at the end.

James was basically defenseless though so I can understand where Cortez was coming from. Dude is just irritating as hell though. Let Kirkland get up and wave it off. Don't be a theatrical prick about it.

Kirkland becomes a stepping stone from here, unless he takes a step back and develops his skills (like bringing your jab back to a defensive position).
Imperius3
You have to keep in mind, it doesn't always matter how hard the punch is, sometimes a well timed accurate punch can do a lot of damage. I believe that is what happened here.

I'm not going to write Kirkland off yet either. Obviously he doesn't have a granite chin, but he didn't get KTFO like Khan did against Prescott. And Khan is a perfect example of someone who improved after he was brutally stopped by a low level opponent. Many people wrote Khan off, but he has since made adjustments and is one of the best in the division. I also think Kirkland should go back to Wolfe or go to Mayweather Sr.

Like jluv said, time will tell. We will just have to wait and see.
Big Slim Sweet
Just think if Ann Wolfe had caught him with some of those shots.
Imperius3


Funny you should say that, Slim. Wolfe and Kirkland sparred together on a regular basis when she was training him. I visited their gym once in Austin.
JLUVBABY
im sure some will say this punch still wasnt hard enough to crack an egg but i found this still frame of one of the punches kirkland took... maybe his face tells the story of how hard and accurate he was getting hit.. lol...
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Apr 12 2011, 01:10 AM) *
im sure some will say this punch still wasnt hard enough to crack an egg but i found this still frame of one of the punches kirkland took... maybe his face tells the story of how hard and accurate he was getting hit.. lol...


Those freeze frame shots tend to over emphasise the power behind the shots. You could probably even find photos of Paulie Malignaggi's punches doing that to guys laugh.gif

However the next guy I want to see Kirkland fight is............................Caneman!!

WAR CANEMAN!!! Haha.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Apr 12 2011, 01:41 AM) *
Those freeze frame shots tend to over emphasise the power behind the shots. You could probably even find photos of Paulie Malignaggi's punches doing that to guys laugh.gif

However the next guy I want to see Kirkland fight is............................Caneman!!

WAR CANEMAN!!! Haha.


ollie... you are on some other shit man... lol... you just dont wanna be wrong... and as far as caneman aka randy... i wouldnt let my boy take that fight.. id go to georgia and put that damn van on flats so he couldnt make the fight... lol.. man kirkland got hit with some legit shots...

and speaking of paulie if his punch did that the punch hurt... a punch that disfigures the face hurts.. its hard solid shots....
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Apr 12 2011, 03:24 AM) *
ollie... you are on some other shit man... lol... you just dont wanna be wrong... and as far as caneman aka randy... i wouldnt let my boy take that fight.. id go to georgia and put that damn van on flats so he couldnt make the fight... lol.. man kirkland got hit with some legit shots...

and speaking of paulie if his punch did that the punch hurt... a punch that disfigures the face hurts.. its hard solid shots....


Actually so far JLUV I am right about Kirkland. As I've said before feel free to check any post I've ever made on this site regarding Kirkland, I'm not saying anything new. I've said right from the start that he is a limited fighter who gets hit and hurt easily and would never make it to the top.

Now I know the story still has a ways to go but at this point and considering his last fight, and even the one before it, who do you think is more right about Kirkland, me or you? I'm not on anthing buddy all I needed to do was just watch his last fucken fight against what can only be decsribed as a journeyman type opponent where he got sat on his ass 3 times.

Why do I need to be on anything to call that shit? Just use your eyes mate.

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