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Jack 1000
Considering the recent upsets that we have been seeing, and the fact that Berto has fought so many bums to average guys, I think he may lose on Saturday. Berto can crack, but I think Ortiz can crack harder, and Berto's chin is not that great. What does everyone else think? I really want to see this Mark Breland #2 on his ass.

Calling it now! Ortiz by KO in 8!

Jack
BigG
Berto by KO in the mid rounds
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Apr 11 2011, 01:52 PM) *
Considering the recent upsets that we have been seeing, and the fact that Berto has fought so many bums to average guys, I think he may lose on Saturday. Berto can crack, but I think Ortiz can crack harder, and Berto's chin is not that great. What does everyone else think? I really want to see this Mark Breland #2 on his ass.

Calling it now! Ortiz by KO in 8!

Jack


wouldnt that be something if this turned into the year of upsets... lol.. not just the month but the year of upsets?... lol...
lloyd mayflower
I got Berto by stoppage. Not seen a great deal of Ortiz, and I do want Berto to get stretched, but iv neither seen nor heard anything positive enough about Ortiz to suspect hes the man to do it. I thinmk he will have faded from the limelight by this time nextr year
SmartyBeardo
Berto in 6 or under, but it could go either way. Berto has not been tested since collazo.
gravytrain
i hate to pick in this fight because i wish both of them will get retired. double KO maybe? a man can dream.

i'm going to go with Berto. i think Ortiz will be apprehensive in the early rounds then just get behind and not be able to comeback.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Apr 11 2011, 09:33 PM) *
i hate to pick in this fight because i wish both of them will get retired. double KO maybe? a man can dream.

i'm going to go with Berto. i think Ortiz will be apprehensive in the early rounds then just get behind and not be able to comeback.


they are both bums gravy... lol...
Box in Hand
Ortiz is lunch meat. Gimme Berto by mid round stoppage.
D-MARV
Wow... I suprised by how many people are picking Berto by stoppage!


Berto wide UD.
The CEO
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Apr 11 2011, 10:33 PM) *
i hate to pick in this fight because i wish both of them will get retired. double KO maybe? a man can dream.

i'm going to go with Berto. i think Ortiz will be apprehensive in the early rounds then just get behind and not be able to comeback.


lol...I picked Draw for the same reason...I want Berto to lose, but I DON'T want Ortiz to be the guy who gets him...

It's all good though, because I know Berto will eventually get exposed...just like Kirkland...


QUOTE (The CEO @ Aug 8 2010, 05:19 PM) *
7. James Kirkland will eventually be exposed...


I can't help it!
salvador
Berto by easy decision - but he never takes the risks required to close the show.
Mean Mister Mustard
Ortiz is a lot like Zab Judah. He's talented, he has power, he can drop guys with one punch, but he loses focus. He's not very good at adapting, and he waits too much to let his hands go. Moreover, there's the impression that he's going to quit during a fight again in the near future. Berto might be overrated but compared to Ortiz he has done a lot more. He showed guts in closing strong down the stretch against Collazo.
gravytrain
QUOTE (The CEO @ Apr 12 2011, 10:17 AM) *
lol...I picked Draw for the same reason...I want Berto to lose, but I DON'T want Ortiz to be the guy who gets him...

It's all good though, because I know Berto will eventually get exposed...just like Kirkland...




I can't help it!


it's hard to say he'll get exposed when he only fights B fighters or worse. Collazo almost had him and he wanted no part of a rematch. this dude will just fight poor opposition in his backyard having to give away tickets.. and getting paid good money by HBO LOL.

QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 12 2011, 07:17 AM) *
Wow... I suprised by how many people are picking Berto by stoppage!


Berto wide UD.


i don't think Berto will walk over him but his hand speed and power are better than Maidana's and he's not a basic fighter like Maidana. this fight can be hard on Ortiz and there's a chance he'll stop it himself if he's not getting his way.
kidbazooka1
I see it being competitve for the first few rds then Berto will catch ortiz with something which will cause Ortiz to just try and survive the fight and lose a lopsided decision.
mexi-cutioner
Not a fan of either, i can see Malignaggi beating 'em both
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
I got Berto in a close decision. I think Ortiz is being underrated in this fight a little bit. He is quick and strong, and the last time Berto fought a strong 140 pounder he held the whole night. Berto didn't over-power the 140 pounder Juan Urango, but used his speed to beat him. Well Ortiz is strong as well, but he's a lot faster than Urango. I can see this fight looking like the Collazo fight in a way. Ortiz will touch up Berto, and force him to fight. However, I don't see Ortiz winning a 12 round fire-fight. He'll do well in the early going, but will fade late allowing Berto to take over. Berto will dominate the later rounds on way to a 116-112 or 115-113 decision victory.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (mexi-cutioner @ Apr 12 2011, 08:38 PM) *
Not a fan of either, i can see Malignaggi beating 'em both


Hahahahahahhahahahaha

Hell No!

That bitch Malignaggi would get whooped by both.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Apr 11 2011, 10:33 PM) *
i hate to pick in this fight because i wish both of them will get retired. double KO maybe? a man can dream.

i'm going to go with Berto. i think Ortiz will be apprehensive in the early rounds then just get behind and not be able to comeback.


Yep I'm feeling that Gravy. Praying for the double KO. If anyone can do it these two bums can. laugh.gif
gravytrain
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=6336496

i was looking around on ESPN and thought you guys might think this is kind of funny if you haven't seen it already. makes me wish for the double KO even harder. obviously the fans that witnessed him barely beat Collazo are just haters and he's legitimately in need of more respect LOL
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (mexi-cutioner @ Apr 12 2011, 09:38 PM) *
Not a fan of either, i can see Malignaggi beating 'em both



No way. Paulie has zero shot against either one of these guys.
Imperius3
I think Ortiz will show he is still a little weak in the heart department.

Berto TKO 9
BrutalBodyShots
lol not one person in 19 votes went with Ortiz by decision.
TheFonz
Cotto NEEDS to make his way back down to 147 as soon as he takes care of cheatarito.
TheFonz
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Apr 17 2011, 10:01 AM) *
Cotto needs to stay where he is at, for as long as it lasts.


Sorry dude, but your the guy that was blowing the Berto Bag-Pipes up until last night. I will take what you say with a grain of salt. The ass wooping Berto caught at the hands of Ortiz aint nothing compared to what Cotto would have done to him, believe that. Ortiz loses to Cotto also, that's why he needs to get back down there and put himself in the mix at 147, ASAP!
Fitz
Hahaha, what a counter. The Fonz telling it like it is, and what an appropriate name for the occasion.
Fitz
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Apr 18 2011, 09:22 AM) *
What the fuck are you talkin about? I picked Berto and made it clear that it could go either way. If you are going to talk shit, you might at least wear a bib.

And before you start spewing sewage about how Cotto should get back down to 147, you might take a look at whether he can still make that weight comfortably. Last time he was down there he was getting his ass handed to him, repeatedly. That's right he got a gift against an African heavybag.

And he has looked real impressive lately against an old chain smoker and a one legged rabbi. I'll believe Cotto can give a live body an ass whoopin when he finally manages to get in the ring with one and accomplishes it.

And BTW, where was your prediction nutless?


You make good points, and Cotto hasn't beaten anybody really good recently, but about Cotto getting his ass handed to him. Maybe that could have had something to do with fighting the p4p #1 fighter in the world?
caneman
Yea, Cotto has issues if couldn't have done what Ortiz did last night....honestly, I don't like Cotto @ 154 and think he is slower!
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 17 2011, 04:35 PM) *
You make good points, and Cotto hasn't beaten anybody really good recently, but about Cotto getting his ass handed to him. Maybe that could have had something to do with fighting the p4p #1 fighter in the world?

That is true, Fitz, but he looked and fought small and weak. Clottey basically gave him their fight.

Don't get me wrong, I would like nothing better than to see Cotto dominate somewhere. I am hoping that he can lay a thorough ass whoopin on the East LA piece of criminal excrement. He still has never been the same since Margarito. It is what it is.

I think 147 is too low for him to go at this point.
TheFonz
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Apr 17 2011, 07:22 PM) *
What the fuck are you talkin about? I picked Berto and made it clear that it could go either way. If you are going to talk shit, you might at least wear a bib.

And before you start spewing sewage about how Cotto should get back down to 147, you might take a look at whether he can still make that weight comfortably. Last time he was down there he was getting his ass handed to him, repeatedly. That's right he got a gift against an African heavybag.

And he has looked real impressive lately against an old chain smoker and a one legged rabbi. I'll believe Cotto can give a live body an ass whoopin when he finally manages to get in the ring with one and accomplishes it.

And BTW, where was your prediction nutless?



I clearly remember telling you how much Berto sucked months ago and where on here when you where trying build this guy up like was ever going be anything more than he showed last night. The point is that you eye for boxing talent is as good as Berto's fighting talent. It was clear that since the Collazo fight Berto was trash yet you where his cheerleader on this site, great job (notsosmarty).

Now the fact that you don't rate Cotto at 147 really doesn't surprise me since you're the same guy that thought Berto was good fighter, but let me just point out somethings.

1. Cotto is small Jr Middle the only reason he is up there is because that was the best option for him to get money fights after the Pac loss. It is pretty safe to say that had he beaten Pacquiao that he would have not made the move the move to 156.

2. As bad as Cotto looked against Clottey, I am 10000000% that Berto would have been KOed by him or lost a lopsided to decision to Clottey and I would favor Clottey over Ortiz also.

3. Cotto fought Pacquiao and despite having no gameplan, no trainer, and loads of bad habits still gave Pac great fight for the first four rounds of the fight.

4. Cotto has looked much better since bringing Stewart. The fact that he hasn't been cut at all in any of the fights with stewart in the corner is a big indicator of the difference that manny has made in his fights. I will blame your bad eye for intricacies in the sweet science if you can't see the difference in Cotto's fight game with and without Manny Stewart in his corner.



Cotto Jab would give Ortiz fits and he would just beat the living shit out Berto.
JLUVBABY
clottey needs to get his ass active... i agree when he shows up to fight he can but id hate to see him end up like ike quartey....
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Apr 17 2011, 05:03 PM) *
I clearly remember telling you how much Berto sucked months ago and where on here when you where trying build this guy up like was ever going be anything more than he showed last night. The point is that you eye for boxing talent is as good as Berto's fighting talent. It was clear that since the Collazo fight Berto was trash yet you where his cheerleader on this site, great job (notsosmarty).

Now the fact that you don't rate Cotto at 147 really doesn't surprise me since you're the same guy that thought Berto was good fighter, but let me just point out somethings.

1. Cotto is small Jr Middle the only reason he is up there is because that was the best option for him to get money fights after the Pac loss. It is pretty safe to say that had he beaten Pacquiao that he would have not made the move the move to 156.

2. As bad as Cotto looked against Clottey, I am 10000000% that Berto would have been KOed by him or lost a lopsided to decision to Clottey and I would favor Clottey over Ortiz also.

3. Cotto fought Pacquiao and despite having no gameplan, no trainer, and loads of bad habits still gave Pac great fight for the first four rounds of the fight.

4. Cotto has looked much better since bringing Stewart. The fact that he hasn't been cut at all in any of the fights with stewart in the corner is a big indicator of the difference that manny has made in his fights. I will blame your bad eye for intricacies in the sweet science if you can't see the difference in Cotto's fight game with and without Manny Stewart in his corner.



Cotto Jab would give Ortiz fits and he would just beat the living shit out Berto.

Here's the difference between me and you, Fonzy; I make predictions before fights, right or wrong, you take potshots after fights you were too fucking nutless to actually make a call on.
#1. Your eye is so keen at identifying intricacies that you don't even know what the weight class is that Cotto is fighting in.

#2. It is easy to claim you are "10000000%" sure of something that has never happened. If the fight ever happens we will see if your nutsac will fall and you will be able to step up to the plate and make a call when it counts. I doubt it.

#3. Cotto got his ass beaten severely by Pac, though I admit that he did better than I thought he would, given his damaged status.

#4. Your eye for the intricacies of Cotto's game are so keen that you don't even know the actual name of his trainer. Steward is a great trainer. That does not mean that he can work miracles. When Cotto can step into the ring with someone besides a loud mouthed old chain smoking circus act or a disabled wannabe rabbi and whoop some ass I'll give him credit.

#5. I have never attempted to pass myself off as a boxing expert here. I give my opinion. Nothing more. I haven't done too well in the last few weeks. Earlier this year I was doing a better job. You on the other hand don't bother to show up except to talk shit after the fact. You don't like my picks. That's fine. When you do talk shit, at least have the brain cells to get the simple shit right.

In the meantime, go make another skidmark on your mommy's carpet.

BTW, I'm not sure where you get the idea that I have been Berto's cheerleader given the fact that I thought that Hernandez had a puncher's chance last Fall. That said, you and every other ignorant motherfucker on this site can call Berto "trash" all you want. The dude has lost one tough fight. I will reserve judgment on the young man. And don't act like you are Nostradamus of the boxing world because you have thought Berto is trash since the Collazo fight. I sighted the Collazo fight as a reason that Ortiz might take that fight. Meanwhile you sat back praying that this would be the fight where you could pull yourself across the carpet and talk shit about Berto.

You talk canned spam about "the sweet science," like you know squat. You know how to squat and that is about the extent of it. Berto knows way more than I do about it. He has the nuts to get in there with dudes like Ortiz while you don't even have the nuts to make a pick before a fight.

A lot of people talk shit about JuanMa, and he certainly got his ass kicked last night, but he never gave up, never quit. I got that one wrong to. You want to talk shit about that one, nutless wunderkind?
TheFonz
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Apr 18 2011, 01:16 AM) *
Here's the difference between me and you, Fonzy; I make predictions before fights, right or wrong, you take potshots after fights you were too fucking nutless to actually make a call on.
#1. Your eye is so keen at identifying intricacies that you don't even know what the weight class is that Cotto is fighting in.

#2. It is easy to claim you are "10000000%" sure of something that has never happened. If the fight ever happens we will see if your nutsac will fall and you will be able to step up to the plate and make a call when it counts. I doubt it.

#3. Cotto got his ass beaten severely by Pac, though I admit that he did better than I thought he would, given his damaged status.

#4. Your eye for the intricacies of Cotto's game are so keen that you don't even know the actual name of his trainer. Steward is a great trainer. That does not mean that he can work miracles. When Cotto can step into the ring with someone besides a loud mouthed old chain smoking circus act or a disabled wannabe rabbi and whoop some ass I'll give him credit.

#5. I have never attempted to pass myself off as a boxing expert here. I give my opinion. Nothing more. I haven't done too well in the last few weeks. Earlier this year I was doing a better job. You on the other hand don't bother to show up except to talk shit after the fact. You don't like my picks. That's fine. When you do talk shit, at least have the brain cells to get the simple shit right.

In the meantime, go make another skidmark on your mommy's carpet.

BTW, I'm not sure where you get the idea that I have been Berto's cheerleader given the fact that I thought that Hernandez had a puncher's chance last Fall. That said, you and every other ignorant motherfucker on this site can call Berto "trash" all you want. The dude has lost one tough fight. I will reserve judgment on the young man. And don't act like you are Nostradamus of the boxing world because you have thought Berto is trash since the Collazo fight. I sighted the Collazo fight as a reason that Ortiz might take that fight. Meanwhile you sat back praying that this would be the fight where you could pull yourself across the carpet and talk shit about Berto.

You talk canned spam about "the sweet science," like you know squat. You know how to squat and that is about the extent of it. Berto knows way more than I do about it. He has the nuts to get in there with dudes like Ortiz while you don't even have the nuts to make a pick before a fight.

A lot of people talk shit about JuanMa, and he certainly got his ass kicked last night, but he never gave up, never quit. I got that one wrong to. You want to talk shit about that one, nutless wunderkind?



I will only reply to certain things in your post, because honestly most of the shit your posting is just the ramblings of a close to senile old man.

Calling somebody nutless on a message board make you look like an idiot. (Now I'm not saying that you are in fact an idiot, but to the guys don't know any better, well......)
The reality is this Smarty I voted for Ortiz to lose this fight, just like most people and if you go throught archives you would find the post where I stated something along the lines of "Both of these guys suck, but Ortiz suck more." Now there where obvious factors that I couldn't factor going into this fight ie. Ortiz being the bigger man and being able to bully the guy who almost everybody thought was going to be bigger and that he found his heart somewhere between the Maidana fight and the Berto fight.

All of that is is besides the point of this back and forth exchange that we have going on here.

The fact of the matter is that I posted an opinion which I was able to articualate with actual facts and you tried shit on my opinion when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about half the time. It's that simple. If you don't think some one can make a case for Cotto beating the likes of Berto and Ortiz even right now I don't know what to tell you. If you don't see an improvement between the Cotto that fought Clottey and Pac and the one that is being trained by Manny Steward (even with the difference level of oposition), I don't know what to tell you. If we you don't think Cotto brings the better Skillset (just skillset) than either Berto or Ortiz, I don't know what to tell you. It's not like I said "he needs to come back down to 147 and call out Pac for rematch or go after Floyd. So I really don't know what the problem is.

Mind you, I'm being nice in these exchanges Smarty. All I'm doing is stating the obvious.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Apr 18 2011, 06:39 AM) *
I will only reply to certain things in your post, because honestly most of the shit your posting is just the ramblings of a close to senile old man.

Calling somebody nutless on a message board make you look like an idiot. (Now I'm not saying that you are in fact an idiot, but to the guys don't know any better, well......)
The reality is this Smarty I voted for Ortiz to lose this fight, just like most people and if you go throught archives you would find the post where I stated something along the lines of "Both of these guys suck, but Ortiz suck more." Now there where obvious factors that I couldn't factor going into this fight ie. Ortiz being the bigger man and being able to bully the guy who almost everybody thought was going to be bigger and that he found his heart somewhere between the Maidana fight and the Berto fight.

All of that is is besides the point of this back and forth exchange that we have going on here.

The fact of the matter is that I posted an opinion which I was able to articualate with actual facts and you tried shit on my opinion when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about half the time. It's that simple. If you don't think some one can make a case for Cotto beating the likes of Berto and Ortiz even right now I don't know what to tell you. If you don't see an improvement between the Cotto that fought Clottey and Pac and the one that is being trained by Manny Steward (even with the difference level of oposition), I don't know what to tell you. If we you don't think Cotto brings the better Skillset (just skillset) than either Berto or Ortiz, I don't know what to tell you. It's not like I said "he needs to come back down to 147 and call out Pac for rematch or go after Floyd. So I really don't know what the problem is.

Mind you, I'm being nice in these exchanges Smarty. All I'm doing is stating the obvious.

Again I ask, what the fuck are you even talking about? You stated that Cotto should go back down to 147, pronto or some shit. I said that he should stay put at 154. That is what initiated your inane attack on shit you have no fucking clue about.

You accuse me of a stream of horseshit that I haven't even given my opinion on. When did I say that Cotto has not improved under Steward? When did I say that Berto and Ortiz have better skills than Cotto? When did I shit on your opinion about Cotto going down to 147? When did I say that a case cannot be made for Cotto beating Berto and Ortiz?

The "fact" is that the answer to every single one of those questions is never.

You ought to actually study words like facts before you go tossing them around ignorantly.

You gave your opinion and I gave mine. Facts had nothing to do with it.

Here is an actual fact for you; I don't give a fuck whether or not you want to play nice.
TheFonz
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Apr 18 2011, 09:58 PM) *
Again I ask, what the fuck are you even talking about? You stated that Cotto should go back down to 147, pronto or some shit. I said that he should stay put at 154. That is what initiated your inane attack on shit you have no fucking clue about.

You accuse me of a stream of horseshit that I haven't even given my opinion on. When did I say that Cotto has not improved under Steward? When did I say that Berto and Ortiz have better skills than Cotto? When did I shit on your opinion about Cotto going down to 147? When did I say that a case cannot be made for Cotto beating Berto and Ortiz?

The "fact" is that the answer to every single one of those questions is never.

You ought to actually study words like facts before you go tossing them around ignorantly.

You gave your opinion and I gave mine. Facts had nothing to do with it.

Here is an actual fact for you; I don't give a fuck whether or not you want to play nice.




LOL
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Apr 19 2011, 03:16 AM) *
LOL

. . . and the skidmark resorts to giggling in the corner. Run out of facts?
TheFonz
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Apr 19 2011, 09:28 AM) *
. . . and the skidmark resorts to giggling in the corner. Run out of facts?



Some people get old, but they don't get any wiser.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Apr 19 2011, 06:36 AM) *
Some people get old, but they don't get any wiser.

. . . and some never bother to learn the meanings of the words they spew . . . still waiting for you to bestow this conversation with your factual knowledge.
TheFonz
I clearly remember telling you how much Berto sucked months ago and where on here when you where trying build this guy up like was ever going be anything more than he showed last night. (Fact) The point is that you eye for boxing talent is as good as Berto's fighting talent. It was clear that since the Collazo fight Berto was trash yet you where his cheerleader on this site, great job (notsosmarty).

Now the fact that you don't rate Cotto at 147 really doesn't surprise me since you're the same guy that thought Berto was good fighter(Fact), but let me just point out somethings.

1. Cotto is small Jr Middle (Fact) the only reason he is up there is because that was the best option for him to get money fights after the Pac loss. It is pretty safe to say that had he beaten Pacquiao that he would have not made the move the move to 154.

2. As bad as Cotto looked against Clottey, I am 10000000% that Berto would have been KOed by him or lost a lopsided to decision to Clottey and I would favor Clottey over Ortiz also.

3. Cotto fought Pacquiao and despite having no gameplan, no trainer, and loads of bad habits still gave Pac great fight for the first four rounds of the fight. <-Fact

4. Cotto has looked much better since bringing Stewart. The fact that he hasn't been cut at all in any of the fights with stewart in the corner is a big indicator of the difference that manny has made in his fights. I will blame your bad eye for intricacies in the sweet science if you can't see the difference in Cotto's fight game with and without Manny Stewart in his corner. <-Fact



Cotto Jab would give Ortiz fits and he would just beat the living shit out Berto.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Apr 19 2011, 07:24 AM) *
I clearly remember telling you how much Berto sucked months ago and where on here when you where trying build this guy up like was ever going be anything more than he showed last night. (Fact)

What part of this nearly unintelligible sentence includes a fact?

The only proven fact I can detect here is that you are relying on an ignorant person's memory to recall an ignorant person's opinion of Berto "months ago."

Out of that sentence I can deduct that your opinion was (and continues to be) that "Berto sucked." Your opinion is that Saturday night's fight proves your opinion.

In my opinion Berto does not suck. In my opinion Saturday night's fight backs up my opinion that Berto does not suck.

QUOTE
The point is that you eye for boxing talent is as good as Berto's fighting talent. It was clear that since the Collazo fight Berto was trash yet you where his cheerleader on this site, great job (notsosmarty).

More personal opinion and pre/immature leaps to conclusions about another's opinions.


QUOTE
Now the fact that you don't rate Cotto at 147 really doesn't surprise me since you're the same guy that thought Berto was good fighter(Fact),

There you go tossing around that four letter word again, as if you actually know what it means or could identify one if it dropped out from between your legs.

You are of the opinion that I do not rate Cotto at 147. You have zero proof to back up your opinion so you skip that part and just claim that your opinion is that four letter word.

Berto still is a good fighter, in my opinion.

QUOTE
1. Cotto is small Jr Middle (Fact)

There you go again, expressing an opinion that you don't bother to back up with evidence and claiming it is a fact. I have never suggested that I disagree with you, though I have expressed the opinion that I am not sure if Cotto can comfortably make 147 at this time.

QUOTE
the only reason he is up there is because that was the best option for him to get money fights after the Pac loss. It is pretty safe to say that had he beaten Pacquiao that he would have not made the move the move to 154.

2. As bad as Cotto looked against Clottey, I am 10000000% that Berto would have been KOed by him or lost a lopsided to decision to Clottey and I would favor Clottey over Ortiz also.

More naked opinion.

QUOTE
3. Cotto fought Pacquiao and despite having no gameplan, no trainer, and loads of bad habits still gave Pac great fight for the first four rounds of the fight. <-Fact

Sorry Fonzy, whether or not I agree with your opinion of the first four rounds of Pac v Cotto does not change the fact that it is just your opinion.

In fact, I could deduce from your opinion that you think Cotto sucked up to and including the Pac fight. Is that true?

QUOTE
4. Cotto has looked much better since bringing Stewart. The fact that he hasn't been cut at all in any of the fights with stewart in the corner is a big indicator of the difference that manny has made in his fights. I will blame your bad eye for intricacies in the sweet science if you can't see the difference in Cotto's fight game with and without Manny Stewart in his corner. <-Fact

While I cannot dispute your claim that Cotto "hasn't been cut at all in any of the fights with stewart (sic) in the corner" without going back to review both fights completely, why would I? I never made the claim that Steward has had no positive effect on "Cotto's fight game." In fact my opinion is the opposite.



QUOTE
Cotto Jab would give Ortiz fits and he would just beat the living shit out Berto.

More naked opinion.

The one (and only) fact that you have substantiated in the above rerun is the fact that you have no fucking clue what is fact and what is opinion.

Sad but true.
EAlbian
Fonz you got beat up worse than Cotto did in the Pac and Margarito fights combined, pull an Evangelista and throw in the towel.

Cotto hasn't been the same since the Margs fight, and beating up guys like Micheal Jennings, Foreman, and a 10 years out of his prime Mayorga doesnt prove shit.

Did he look better beating Gomez or Jennings? or how about Foreman or Mosley? You can make a solid argument that Cotto hasn't improved under Steward only that his level of competition has severly dropped. Steward is a great trainer but he can't train to give Cotto back what was beaten out of him.

I think a Berto fight is interesting for Cotto. I wouldn't mind seeing him back at 147, which is a weight i think he can make comfortably. The problem is Arum has lost all interest in 147 because Pac has beaten all of his fighters there so he's moved them away so he can recycle them in a new weight class. Arum is what ruins the potential matches that could be made there, and there are a lot.

Fights like we saw last weekend don't prove anything other than it was a competitive fight between two guys who didn't give in, of course both guys showed weaknesses but thats what makes boxing great. Can you exploit ur opponents weakness. Fights like that shouldn't hurt anyones stock they should raise it. I want to thank Berto and Ortiz for giving me a fight to remember in 2011, something i was hard-pressed to find last year.
TheFonz
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Fonz you got beat up worse than Cotto did in the Pac and Margarito fights combined, pull an Evangelista and throw in the towel.


Sigh, We are on a message board. Beat up, really?

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Cotto hasn't been the same since the Margs fight, and beating up guys like Micheal Jennings, Foreman, and a 10 years out of his prime Mayorga doesnt prove shit.


I never said that Cotto was a world beater, but if you don't think that he can beat Berto or Ortiz, I disagree, those guy are nothing special and they are fighting for championship belts.

QUOTE
Did he look better beating Gomez or Jennings? or how about Foreman or Mosley? You can make a solid argument that Cotto hasn't improved under Steward only that his level of competition has severly dropped. Steward is a great trainer but he can't train to give Cotto back what was beaten out of him.


You can make an arguement but to say that he has no business at 147 to get himself in the mix is just plain stupid, and that's how this whole thing started.

[
QUOTE
I think a Berto fight is interesting for Cotto. I wouldn't mind seeing him back at 147, which is a weight i think he can make comfortably. The problem is Arum has lost all interest in 147 because Pac has beaten all of his fighters there so he's moved them away so he can recycle them in a new weight class. Arum is what ruins the potential matches that could be made there, and there are a lot.


Cotto beats the living shit out of Berto, book it, quote it, and put it down in archives. I'm not so sure Ortiz does much better, honestly.

QUOTE
Fights like we saw last weekend don't prove anything other than it was a competitive fight between two guys who didn't give in, of course both guys showed weaknesses but thats what makes boxing great. Can you exploit ur opponents weakness. Fights like that shouldn't hurt anyones stock they should raise it. I want to thank Berto and Ortiz for giving me a fight to remember in 2011, something i was hard-pressed to find last year.


Ortiz, though limited came to fight, but Berto was looking for the ref to save him and thought he could get Ortiz out of there with one shot, when it never happened, he got broken down shot gun style, plain and simple. Berto Sucks.
SmartyBeardo
If Cotto passes the exam in September, and he can still get down to 147 comfortably, Ortiz v Cotto would be large early next year, if PBF doesn't step in and give Ortiz the big payday (and opportunity).

I agree that Ortiz should go back after his nemesis, Maidana, in the mean time.
gravytrain
if Cotto gets past Margarito and doesn't rematch Pac he's definitely going to fight Canelo. i wouldn't doubt it for 1 minute. Canelo would want the name on his resume and they might think he's faded enough for them. it'd be a smart fight for both sides but i think Cotto will beat him and i know Arum would love killing the hype of GBP's next big thing.
TheFonz
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Apr 20 2011, 12:05 AM) *
if Cotto gets past Margarito and doesn't rematch Pac he's definitely going to fight Canelo. i wouldn't doubt it for 1 minute. Canelo would want the name on his resume and they might think he's faded enough for them. it'd be a smart fight for both sides but i think Cotto will beat him and i know Arum would love killing the hype of GBP's next big thing.



You are probably right in this scenario, I just think the risk vs reward is better for Cotto if he goes after fight with Ortiz. Also P-Will is still around, a fight between him and Canelo would be worth watching.
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