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The Ollie Reed Fan Club
From now on I will judge the quality of an HBO PPV fight by the volume and intensity of Manny Steward's "OH MY GOD!"
HaydelHammer
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Apr 18 2011, 06:25 AM) *
From now on I will judge the quality of an HBO PPV fight by the volume and intensity of Manny Steward's "OH MY GOD!"


lol. Yes manny was like a kid in the candy store saturday night. lol
caneman
Who would have thought this fight would do 19 pages and growing? Amazing stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EAlbian
I thought this fight was great, i knew going into it that it was going to be a fun fight to watch. I think everyone was surprised how well Ortiz did. He finally fought to his potential and exposed Berto for not being able to handle an inside combination puncher. i thought Berto would catch him coming in and he did twice, Ortiz chin held up very well. I'd like to see a rematch and then for him to challenge the winner of Bradley vs Kahn, forget Pac and Mayweather i dont want to see them fight anyone but each other. Kahn, Bradley, Alexander, Ortiz have alway really been welters, i've been saying that for a while. If these two dont fight again i'd like to see Berto/Ortiz vs Maidan or the Matsyee Alexander winner. There are a lot of interesting fights that could be made, Ortiz vs Alvarez could be a lot of fun down the road. Golden Boys stable is looking a lot better everyday and Top Rank seems to be getting weaker
EAlbian
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 17 2011, 06:03 AM) *
I caught this fight from round 8 onwards. I know I missed that great round where they both get dropped (should catch the whole fight in the next day or so), and I saw people were calling this FOTY and so on, but from round 8 onwards, the fight was just ok for me. Nothing great, and kind of ugly. Berto looking for one shot, and struggling to land clean and Khan just landing clean shots.
Was the fight really that good from rounds 1-7? From 8 onwards, the fight was nothing special. Just a pretty decent fight. So not sure if I missed some major war for rounds 1-7 or not, but 8-12 certainly didn't look like a FOTY type fight, but I will wait and see. I missed 2/3 of the fight.
I never minded Berto, he isn't great, but I didn't mind him, but he looked like absolute junk.
I see similarities and why people call him a mini Pascal, but I would call him a poor mans version of mini Pascal, not just mini Pascal, haha.


This should answer your question http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-R3a63tvs0
Fitz
Thanks, but I have the fight now. I just haven't got around to watching it yet.
D-MARV
Just saw the fight! Berto showed heart but was exposed for the average fighter that he is! Thank God he didn't get his shot at Mayweather. Floyd would have stopped him!

Ortiz also showed heart and skill from time to time. There is still something missing though. He can make a name for himself at 147. He'll probably rematch Berto before he moves on. He is a big ass welter too... He could fight at 154 with no problem!

Ortiz-Cotto Puerto Rican day parade weekend 2012 would do BIG Numbers!
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 18 2011, 08:06 PM) *
Just saw the fight! Berto showed heart but was exposed for the average fighter that he is! Thank God he didn't get his shot at Mayweather. Floyd would have stopped him!

Ortiz also showed heart and skill from time to time. There is still something missing though. He can make a name for himself at 147. He'll probably rematch Berto before he moves on. He is a big ass welter too... He could fight at 154 with no problem!

Ortiz-Cotto Puerto Rican day parade weekend 2012 would do BIG Numbers!


As long as ortiz remains focuse he will be the tough to beat(Pac and Mayweather not included).

I agree Ortiz/Cotto would be huge down the road if they continue to win.
Mean Mister Mustard
Ortiz has very heavy hands. Particularly early on in a fight. Whoever fights him next better be able to take a punch and recover early on.
kidbazooka1
If Ortiz can continue to improve especially on his defense he might just be the next superstar of boxing juast like many had expected him to be before the Miadana fight.
TheFonz
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 18 2011, 08:06 PM) *
Just saw the fight! Berto showed heart but was exposed for the average fighter that he is! Thank God he didn't get his shot at Mayweather. Floyd would have stopped him!

Ortiz also showed heart and skill from time to time. There is still something missing though. He can make a name for himself at 147. He'll probably rematch Berto before he moves on. He is a big ass welter too... He could fight at 154 with no problem!

Ortiz-Cotto Puerto Rican day parade weekend 2012 would do BIG Numbers!



A fucking jab.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (TheFonz @ Apr 19 2011, 03:20 AM) *
A fucking jab.

Good point.

The jab Ortiz displays is pointless, although he has learned to snap it back to a defensive position efficiently. He needs to stiffen up the stab while continuing to snap it back. I think that he has the ingredients for an effective jab.

While Ortiz has improved his defense, he has also become more mechanical. That got him through the Berto fight but he needs to improve his feints and overall head movement, and just loosen up a bit in there.

What is impressive is that he has obviously dedicated himself to improving. The Ortiz that fought Maidana would not have survived Saturday night. I'm not talking about the weight, or his level of determination. I'm talking about his improved defense and overall skill level.

If he continues to be as dedicated to improvement as he is, his jab will develop . . . and much more.
Fitz
Ok, watched the fight, and it was a very good fight. Not sure if it was FOTY though, round 6 seemed like it could be round of the year, great round and was pretty entertaining fight. But Ortiz clearly dominated, and other than a few moments, Berto never looked in the fight. He was just looking for that one shot, and when landing, only landing a few shots at at a time. Wasn't really able to put punches together on Ortiz. Berto showed heart in the fight, and Ortiz came back from the knockdowns as well (he did that with Maidana a few times anyways?)

Ortiz has always been impressive offensively, though I still can't shake the Maidana fight out of my head. Berto didn't pressure, land consecutively and drag Ortiz in a war like Maidana did, so I still have that in the back of my head when thinking of Ortiz. That type of trait he showed in that fight isn't something you train for in the gym, and isn't flicked on and off like a switch. Not saying that mentality can't be changed, but it isn't simple.

I can't really fault Ortiz for his fight against Berto, he was damn impressive and filled out well at 147, so can't criticise him for that. Just the Maidana fight is hard to erase, and I wonder if he gets into a war again, when he is hit on the regular, if he will fold like a chair again. But like I said, that is the past. Based on the weekends performance, he was damn good.
Big Slim Sweet
Fitz I agree, Ortiz still needs to beat Maidana in a rematch to be completely vindicated.
caneman
Well I can understand why peeps think this way, but I think Ortiz thought he was set up with an easy fight and I think he wins a rematch easy but he could get pulling down that same road so we might just see what he has! This could be a style thing cause Ortiz like to bang and Miranda hell all you need to know is where he is from! What it come down to is can Ortiz fight a smart fight and box or brawl? Can he adapt on the fly and become a real champ? I can Ortiz 116=112 but he we have to show even more than he did in the Berto fight!
Fitz
QUOTE (Big Slim Sweet @ Apr 20 2011, 09:09 AM) *
Fitz I agree, Ortiz still needs to beat Maidana in a rematch to be completely vindicated.


I think a Maidana rematch needs to happen as well. But I wasn't even implying that he must beat Maidana to erase that.

What I was more saying is that in the Maidana fight, when the going got tough and the chips were down, he folded. He looks great when he is on top, I just want to see him when he is behind again, things begin to get tough, he begins to get hit a lot again and hard. I want to see how he reacts. I would be curious to see this against anyone that pushes him like this, not just Maidana.
Though for his own self, I think a Maidana fight would be good for his own confidence.
But quitting the way he did. Well that isn't something you can train for to improve at in the gym or anything, like you can do to improve defence, or improve footwork, a better jab and so on. What Ortiz did that night, is something that is deeper than that, and is more of a trait you have as a person than a skill you acquire. So I still have my doubts about that not being there any more.

I do think that the heart trait can be improved on, but it's deeper, and not something that you're trainer can help you with in the gym. That's more what I was getting at. I don't want to be a buzz kill or anything, because that was a fantastic performance by Ortiz. I just don't know if I am yet to be like others like "he has now proved himself", "he is living up to what he had now".
Yes, he was always good in the skills department, I am just not as convinced that the old traits won't appear again if the going gets really tough at a later point in his career.
TheFonz
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 19 2011, 08:51 PM) *
I think a Maidana rematch needs to happen as well. But I wasn't even implying that he must beat Maidana to erase that.

What I was more saying is that in the Maidana fight, when the going got tough and the chips were down, he folded. He looks great when he is on top, I just want to see him when he is behind again, things begin to get tough, he begins to get hit a lot again and hard. I want to see how he reacts. I would be curious to see this against anyone that pushes him like this, not just Maidana.
Though for his own self, I think a Maidana fight would be good for his own confidence.
But quitting the way he did. Well that isn't something you can train for to improve at in the gym or anything, like you can do to improve defence, or improve footwork, a better jab and so on. What Ortiz did that night, is something that is deeper than that, and is more of a trait you have as a person than a skill you acquire. So I still have my doubts about that not being there any more.

I do think that the heart trait can be improved on, but it's deeper, and not something that you're trainer can help you with in the gym. That's more what I was getting at. I don't want to be a buzz kill or anything, because that was a fantastic performance by Ortiz. I just don't know if I am yet to be like others like "he has now proved himself", "he is living up to what he had now".
Yes, he was always good in the skills department, I am just not as convinced that the old traits won't appear again if the going gets really tough at a later point in his career.




He answered those questions for me in the sixth round of the Berto fight for me. He was out on his feet after that left hook and he fought on and broke whatever will Berto had left when he put his ass down.
Fitz
For me he showed heart, but it still didn't convince me entirely. Ortiz has been hurt before, and he was hurt against Maidana as well, and he picked himself up and continued. What Maidana was able to do, was not fold like Berto did, keep throwing and landing and basically just fighting with the same intensity.
Berto never did this other than a little bit in round 6, Ortiz could sense that Berto was gone, and was just looking for the one shot IMO. Getting up is one thing, and Ortiz was able to do with against Maidana, he folded when Maidana didn't slow down.
I don't know, people probably think I am being harsh, but quitting the way he did when he should be at his most hungriest as a fighter (as a young fighter) then saying he doesn't deserve to be hit like that, he has a future.
I just don't think what Ortiz experienced in the ring against Berto was the same intensity/experience he experienced with Maidana. I don't know, this is just an opinion, and time will tell. I just don't think Berto was hitting Ortiz like Maidana was. Berto was landing and looking for a shot at a time and just waiting, and basically doing nothing. Maidana was the exact opposite, and I think the frame of mind would have been different for Ortiz in both fights.
Look, I can't criticise him for the Berto performance, I just haven't forgotten what happened as easily as others, and that's it. He was impressive, no doubt about that though.
gravytrain
i think the fight was a mix of a few things; Berto not being very good and relatively untested, Ortiz being more comfortable at 147 since he was at 160 in the ring for the fight and 140 was probably pretty hard to make, and he might of even got tired of all the shit that came with him quitting. if you mess with somebody about something enough it can motivate them to change, i don't think Berto proved Ortiz is now unstoppable but he did eat some big shots and keep coming without hesitating. against a different fighter it might turn out differently.

i don't think Ortiz would quit in a rematch with Maidana if they fight again but i don't know how he'll handle someone putting on pressure every round with no breaks.
SmartyBeardo
It is only one fight but Ortiz got the job done by overcoming adversity. It is Berto's turn to prove if he can come back strong after a defeat. If Cotto can get back down to 147 comfortably it would be great to see if he can prove The Fonz right against Berto and Ortiz. I am not convinced that he carries enough strength at that weight. Pac made him look weak, but that's Pac.

Cotto v Ortiz would be an interesting war. I would like to see Maidana or Matthysse v Berto. Berto needs to learn to come in behind the jab with good combos if he intends to survive.

Ortiz passed a test on Saturday night. Berto failed.

It is time for Cotto to be tested. I hope he punishes and literally destroys Margarito, the rat fuck bastard.
gravytrain
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Apr 19 2011, 11:37 PM) *
It is only one fight but Ortiz got the job done by overcoming adversity. It is Berto's turn to prove if he can come back strong after a defeat. If Cotto can get back down to 147 comfortably it would be great to see if he can prove The Fonz right against Berto and Ortiz. I am not convinced that he carries enough strength at that weight. Pac made him look weak, but that's Pac.

Cotto v Ortiz would be an interesting war. I would like to see Maidana or Matthysse v Berto. Berto needs to learn to come in behind the jab with good combos if he intends to survive.

Ortiz passed a test on Saturday night. Berto failed.

It is time for Cotto to be tested. I hope he punishes and literally destroys Margarito, the rat fuck bastard.


Berto just needs to learn period. there wasn't really any time for growth with him since he was basically staying inactive and waiting for the biggest paydays to get thrown at him.

it's hard to say what happens with Margarito against Cotto, personally i think someone like Margarito is just wrong for Cotto period. i do like his chances better this time though because i think Margarito has faded enough for Cotto to box with him without having to worry about having his ass against the ropes most of the round. if he does beat him i really don't see him going below 154 because there wouldn't be any point and Pac could very well be 1 of his last fights if they rematch because that fight is going to be ugly in the mid-late rounds.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (gravytrain @ Apr 19 2011, 10:42 PM) *
i think the fight was a mix of a few things; Berto not being very good and relatively untested, Ortiz being more comfortable at 147 since he was at 160 in the ring for the fight and 140 was probably pretty hard to make, and he might of even got tired of all the shit that came with him quitting. if you mess with somebody about something enough it can motivate them to change, i don't think Berto proved Ortiz is now unstoppable but he did eat some big shots and keep coming without hesitating. against a different fighter it might turn out differently.

i don't think Ortiz would quit in a rematch with Maidana if they fight again but i don't know how he'll handle someone putting on pressure every round with no breaks.


I see Ortiz stopping Maidana in the middle rds IF he can stick to a game plan and not lose focus.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 19 2011, 05:41 PM) *
Ok, watched the fight, and it was a very good fight. Not sure if it was FOTY though, round 6 seemed like it could be round of the year, great round and was pretty entertaining fight. But Ortiz clearly dominated, and other than a few moments, Berto never looked in the fight. He was just looking for that one shot, and when landing, only landing a few shots at at a time. Wasn't really able to put punches together on Ortiz. Berto showed heart in the fight, and Ortiz came back from the knockdowns as well (he did that with Maidana a few times anyways?)

Ortiz has always been impressive offensively, though I still can't shake the Maidana fight out of my head. Berto didn't pressure, land consecutively and drag Ortiz in a war like Maidana did, so I still have that in the back of my head when thinking of Ortiz. That type of trait he showed in that fight isn't something you train for in the gym, and isn't flicked on and off like a switch. Not saying that mentality can't be changed, but it isn't simple.

I can't really fault Ortiz for his fight against Berto, he was damn impressive and filled out well at 147, so can't criticise him for that. Just the Maidana fight is hard to erase, and I wonder if he gets into a war again, when he is hit on the regular, if he will fold like a chair again. But like I said, that is the past. Based on the weekends performance, he was damn good.


I am sure some of it's luster was not there for you since you already knew the outcome and watched the ending of it live. As for me and possibly others this fight(while watching it live) was high drama every second not knowing what was coming next with all the KD's and such. Berto was the undefeated and Ortiz was having his first fight at welterweight and had a lot to prove. To me this was the best fight I have seen this year.
Fitz
That's definitely true lightsout. It was a good fight, though watching it knowing the result, Berto never really looked like he was in the fight, other than that round (kind of like the moment Mosley had with Mayweather). Other than the punchers chance, Berto never ever looked like he was winning that fight. To me, he probably won a couple of rounds at best.
Don't get me wrong, watching it live, you probably always thought Berto could be one shot away. But he just didn't let his hands go, he threw one punch at a time and the excitement was mainly from Ortiz.
Good fight though, and I was harsh saying it wasn't FOTY, as it's only April and one of the better fights this year.

But at the end of the day, you are absolutely right. I didn't get the same emotion you guys would have watching it live. I know I would have been much more excited.
ViperSniper
Just watched the fight myself. I thought it has gotta be candidate for FOTY so far for sure. I however didn't fight the fight that close, I thought Ortiz took the fight pretty comfortably and looked good in doing so! I was pretty impressed with Ortiz's intensitity, he just wouldn't give Berto a break and his pressure paid off. He really did prove many wrong and think he did get some respect back.

As for Berto, I never thought much of him at all as a fighter and I think if he had fought Shane last year he would have been taken out early to middle rounds!! Andre Berto did not do close to enough to win the fight or take the rounds needed to win the fight. He just layed on the ropes and didn't look great when on the defense turning away alot of the times when getting hit.

Agree with the following posts..

QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 19 2011, 10:41 PM) *
Ortiz has always been impressive offensively, though I still can't shake the Maidana fight out of my head. Berto didn't pressure, land consecutively and drag Ortiz in a war like Maidana did, so I still have that in the back of my head when thinking of Ortiz. That type of trait he showed in that fight isn't something you train for in the gym, and isn't flicked on and off like a switch. Not saying that mentality can't be changed, but it isn't simple.



QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 20 2011, 03:07 AM) *
Getting up is one thing, and Ortiz was able to do with against Maidana, he folded when Maidana didn't slow down.
I don't know, people probably think I am being harsh, but quitting the way he did when he should be at his most hungriest as a fighter (as a young fighter) then saying he doesn't deserve to be hit like that, he has a future.
I just don't think what Ortiz experienced in the ring against Berto was the same intensity/experience he experienced with Maidana. I don't know, this is just an opinion, and time will tell. I just don't think Berto was hitting Ortiz like Maidana was. Berto was landing and looking for a shot at a time and just waiting, and basically doing nothing.



QUOTE (gravytrain @ Apr 20 2011, 03:42 AM) *
i think the fight was a mix of a few things; Berto not being very good and relatively untested, Ortiz being more comfortable at 147 since he was at 160 in the ring for the fight and 140 was probably pretty hard to make, and he might of even got tired of all the shit that came with him quitting. if you mess with somebody about something enough it can motivate them to change, i don't think Berto proved Ortiz is now unstoppable but he did eat some big shots and keep coming without hesitating. against a different fighter it might turn out differently.

i don't think Ortiz would quit in a rematch with Maidana if they fight again but i don't know how he'll handle someone putting on pressure every round with no breaks.



Victor Ortiz, still needs some proving to do and I think he eventually needs to take a rematch with Marcos Maidana (which I think he is more than capable of winning!).

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