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Full Version: Seriously huge thought about the Haye/Klit fight.
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BGv2.0
OK so I've really had a chance to think long and hard about this fight (and you all know as a HW fan it's been quite awhile since I've had a fight of this magnitude in this division to contimplate).

Is it possible that David Haye could actually solidify himself as a "great" HW champ (NOT ATG)....with 2 total wins???

If he were to beat both Wlad and Vitali, a huge and unlikely task, BUT if it were to happen could he then retire as undisputed, unified Champion with a realistic claim that he accomplished everything worth accomplishing with those two wins?

If he were to beat Wlad with a convincing win, maybe not a KO or one sided UD..but a convincing win and then did the same with Vitali in late 2011 say Dec. or so.....I myself think he could pack it in and call it a day.

I suppose people could make an argument for an Adamak defense, or maybe a Povetkin....but other than those two and rematches with the bros. I don't see much worthy of sticking around for. and really I myself don't even consider those two to be worthy of staying around for.

If you were to combine those two wins along with his prior wins at HW....could he be considered a great HW champion?

I mean basically ending the rule of 2 bros considerd to be unstoppable, and unifying the HW championship....maybe an argument could be made. I mean we all know how low the bar is set for this current HW division.

I'd like to hear other's thoughts. Please don't turn this into a Haye bashing "never gonna happen thread" Klit nut riding spectacular....this is a thread about what if something happens....
Box in Hand
I don't think he can be considered great in this day and age especially when measured against his predecessors but he would be a shoe in for the Hall of Fame. And he would be looked at as more than just a cocky guy with some speed and a decent punch. Sorry but the heavy division isn't half what it used to be and he needs to beat more than the Klits and the other bums to be considered great.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ May 13 2011, 09:01 PM) *
I don't think he can be considered great in this day and age especially when measured against his predecessors but he would be a shoe in for the Hall of Fame. And he would be looked at as more than just a cocky guy with some speed and a decent punch. Sorry but the heavy division isn't half what it used to be and he needs to beat more than the Klits and the other bums to be considered great.


I half agree... you are right the division as a whole is no where close to what it should be... its on life support for sure... but if haye beat both brothers it would be saying a lot about the guy... does it make him an all time great?... no... but it will solidify him as a very solid heavyweight champion and he will have done something that will set a mark in the history of the division which is broke down the klitschko monopoly on the division... truth is both brothers could have been contenders at least in any era so they are very good solid fighters... vitali in my estimation being the better of the two... haye, should he beat both brothers, would be doing himself a huge disservice as far as his legacy is concerned if he should retire as i would think he would... i say that because IF he would to pull off such a feat (which i have to say i doubt he gets past both) he would be in a position to start climbing that atg ladder should he decide to defend against who's out there (i.m.o)... truth is if the klits get knocked off the heavyweight division all of a sudden gets a huge breath of life in it cuzz all of a sudden there are competitive matches to be made that effect who holds the titles... or who holds the unified title... so haye finds himself in a very unique position if he can actually pull it off... more power to him if he can...
Box in Hand
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ May 14 2011, 09:03 AM) *
I half agree... you are right the division as a whole is no where close to what it should be... its on life support for sure... but if haye beat both brothers it would be saying a lot about the guy... does it make him an all time great?... no... but it will solidify him as a very solid heavyweight champion and he will have done something that will set a mark in the history of the division which is broke down the klitschko monopoly on the division... truth is both brothers could have been contenders at least in any era so they are very good solid fighters... vitali in my estimation being the better of the two... haye, should he beat both brothers, would be doing himself a huge disservice as far as his legacy is concerned if he should retire as i would think he would... i say that because IF he would to pull off such a feat (which i have to say i doubt he gets past both) he would be in a position to start climbing that atg ladder should he decide to defend against who's out there (i.m.o)... truth is if the klits get knocked off the heavyweight division all of a sudden gets a huge breath of life in it cuzz all of a sudden there are competitive matches to be made that effect who holds the titles... or who holds the unified title... so haye finds himself in a very unique position if he can actually pull it off... more power to him if he can...



That's the thing, who else is there after the Klits? The division doesn't house enough talent. But should he pull off the feat of beating both brothers he would most likely retire and claim ATG.
salvador
It would depend on HOW he beat them. I don't think Brewster was particularly great just because of his ko of Wlad. And it's possible that Vitali is so old that Haye could potshot him like Floyd-Baldomir.

That said, great fighters fight the best and if he fights both and beats them convincingly then he will have beaten two of the most dominating hws of all time. And if he does it in a spectacular fashion (like after being bloodied up - or by wearing them down with relentless body attacks) then he might just force us to call him great.

I sincerely doubt Haye will last 6 rounds with Wlad unless he runs like Floyd.
The Original MrFactor
This is the biggest HW fight we've had in years. Its only big because David Haye talked 10 tons of shit before it. If he wins, it would be an uspet kinda like Clay/Liston 1. I dont see it going that way, but it would be a career maker for David Haye. He would cement himself as a HOF fighter. I dont see Haye winning. I see him trying in the first two or 3 rounds to land something meaningful. When he realizes he cant get past the jab, he will be all defense all the time, like so many others. Then we'll hear about the injury he sustained in the first round which made it so he couldnt get off.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ May 14 2011, 10:03 AM) *
haye, should he beat both brothers, would be doing himself a huge disservice as far as his legacy is concerned if he should retire as i would think he would... i say that because IF he would to pull off such a feat (which i have to say i doubt he gets past both) he would be in a position to start climbing that atg ladder should he decide to defend against who's out there (i.m.o)... truth is if the klits get knocked off the heavyweight division all of a sudden gets a huge breath of life in it cuzz all of a sudden there are competitive matches to be made that effect who holds the titles... or who holds the unified title... so haye finds himself in a very unique position if he can actually pull it off... more power to him if he can...


I totally disagree with this. I think IF (and we all realize how big an IF that is) he were to pull off both wins...the ONLY option for him is to retire. simply due to there being NOBODY left to fight of any real substance. As I've said before people could maybe make a claim for Povetkin or Adamak, other than that there is nobody. and honestly I don't think those two will ever do anything tremendous in the division dispite how weak it is, so I myself don't see them as mandatory fights he would have to have to solidify a very high regard career wise.

I don't think any of the compitition AFTER the two Klit brothers would ever get a champion ATG status....even if he were to take out the entire top 10 in a year....they are so awful and terrible...I don't think it does a thing.

And the "breath of life" you see....I do not. as a matter of fact the ONLY real positive I have ever seen from the Klits double "reign" is that at the very least they provide stability. Once they are gone it will be a belt flop fest between all these SHITY AWFUL HW's! There will be nobody out there to dominate and keep things stable.

As much as I hate to admit it....the HW division WITHOUT the Klits is even worse than it is now.

Take out the Klits and the HW division of today is 1000x worse than that of the mid-80's. I mean really these fuckers are terrible.

Spyder
Consistency over time is what makes someone Great, not 2 wins.

Anybody could get up for one big fight, or two for that matter...but the ability to get up night after night is what separates greatness from just a great performance.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Spyder @ May 15 2011, 02:32 PM) *
Consistency over time is what makes someone Great, not 2 wins.

Anybody could get up for one big fight, or two for that matter...but the ability to get up night after night is what separates greatness from just a great performance.


I think that line of rational is true when you have a division with at the very least decent compitition. But I don't think you apply than line of thought to this awful division....I mean I really believe it's THAT bad.

If he were to pull off such an unlikely task....the only thing left would be rematches and/or bum defenses...and ZERO glory would come from losing rematches to the bros. or stayin in the game fighting the bums as you age and then losing to the likes of Arreola or something just because he happened to catch you as you were aging out.

NAH....if I were Haye and I pulled off the impossible by beating both guys...I'd ride off into the sunset no matter how much people cried and belly ached about it.
DFletch
as weak as the Heavy Weight division is if he was to beat both of them he prob could retire with accomplishing everything in that division. But othere than the 2 klits who else is there?
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