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Extant
While I understand the sincere sentiments concerning the obviously shot RJJ, I saw a fight where he was actually competitive right up to the moment he got KO'd. I even had him ahead by a point going into the last round.

Before I continue, I will say as a DIE HARD RJJ fan that I think he should hang em up and don't wanna to see him risk his life like that again. However when I think of it, there were/are other future HOF'ers that we didn't make those same calls on as fervently as we do Superma... I mean the wheelchair version Christopher Reeve. I haven't seen that same call for James Toney, Tarver, Mosley, Duran, Mayorga, DLH, Trinidad or even Holyfield etc.

What I DO get is that if Roy can't get in that squared circle and perform as we're all accustomed to in his peak, then we don't wanna see it. That's actually a huge complement to his legacy. Let it be (and it has been) the fighters that I mention if they suffered the same fate, the call wouldn't be as passionate.

That being said, it is well understood that Sup is not the typical boxer (EVEN HOF status) that we accept fighting well past his prime as we have and do other boxers. It just that what he's done during his reign was just TOO special to see him doing what he's doing right now. And that Sir, puts him in an elite company (Ali, Louis, SRL... Hell... I can't think of any others)

That's my two cents

Extant; Los Angeles via Chitown
Box in Hand
QUOTE (Extant @ May 23 2011, 12:05 AM) *
While I understand the sincere sentiments concerning the obviously shot RJJ, I saw a fight where he was actually competitive right up to the moment he got KO'd. I even had him ahead by a point going into the last round.

Before I continue, I will say as a DIE HARD RJJ fan that I think he should hang em up and don't wanna to see him risk his life like that again. However when I think of it, there were/are other future HOF'ers that we didn't make those same calls on as fervently as we do Superma... I mean the wheelchair version Christopher Reeve. I haven't seen that same call for James Toney, Tarver, Mosley, Duran, Mayorga, DLH, Trinidad or even Holyfield etc.

What I DO get is that if Roy can't get in that squared circle and perform as we're all accustomed to in his peak, then we don't wanna see it. That's actually a huge complement to his legacy. Let it be (and it has been) the fighters that I mention if they suffered the same fate, the call wouldn't be as passionate.

That being said, it is well understood that Sup is not the typical boxer (EVEN HOF status) that we accept fighting well past his prime as we have and do other boxers. It just that what he's done during his reign was just TOO special to see him doing what he's doing right now. And that Sir, puts him in an elite company (Ali, Louis, SRL... Hell... I can't think of any others)

That's my two cents

Extant; Los Angeles via Chitown



Good post but Roy was dead when he dropped all that muscle to fight Antonio Tarver. The man we saw after that was a mere shell.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (Extant @ May 22 2011, 10:05 PM) *
While I understand the sincere sentiments concerning the obviously shot RJJ, I saw a fight where he was actually competitive right up to the moment he got KO'd. I even had him ahead by a point going into the last round.

Before I continue, I will say as a DIE HARD RJJ fan that I think he should hang em up and don't wanna to see him risk his life like that again. However when I think of it, there were/are other future HOF'ers that we didn't make those same calls on as fervently as we do Superma... I mean the wheelchair version Christopher Reeve. I haven't seen that same call for James Toney, Tarver, Mosley, Duran, Mayorga, DLH, Trinidad or even Holyfield etc.

What I DO get is that if Roy can't get in that squared circle and perform as we're all accustomed to in his peak, then we don't wanna see it. That's actually a huge complement to his legacy. Let it be (and it has been) the fighters that I mention if they suffered the same fate, the call wouldn't be as passionate.

That being said, it is well understood that Sup is not the typical boxer (EVEN HOF status) that we accept fighting well past his prime as we have and do other boxers. It just that what he's done during his reign was just TOO special to see him doing what he's doing right now. And that Sir, puts him in an elite company (Ali, Louis, SRL... Hell... I can't think of any others)

That's my two cents

Extant; Los Angeles via Chitown

If that fight was not fixed, RJJ did himself proud. He nearly pulled it off, went 9 rounds farther than I expected. Could have possibly gotten the decision. But he still ended up a plant.

Watch the fight again. Shit ain't right. RJJ ain't in shape. Lebedev does not look to be the same fighter. Washed up legend puts on a legendary battle in Moscow but gets KOed seconds before the final bell. The ref does not step in. RJJ bends over like he is suffering a migraine.

The 12th (oops, edit: 10th. I keep saying 12th because it is still hard to believe that RJJ would be fighting anything else) round stoppage gambit pays off. The Russians defeat the African American HOFer. The curtain closes. RJJ gets laid by some of the hottest tail on the planet . . . but no rapture.
caneman
You know something? I used to think that RJJ's legacy was set in stone but now I am wondering if he is actually hurting it some! I am surprised I feel that way, cause even though he was never one of my favorites @ all, I thought it was set he I feel he is damaging it a bit! Not like he isn't 1st ballet HOF material...IDK, anyone else agree?
Method
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ May 23 2011, 08:38 AM) *
If that fight was not fixed, RJJ did himself proud. He nearly pulled it off, went 9 rounds farther than I expected. Could have possibly gotten the decision. But he still ended up a plant.

Watch the fight again. Shit ain't right. RJJ ain't in shape. Lebedev does not look to be the same fighter. Washed up legend puts on a legendary battle in Moscow but gets KOed seconds before the final bell. The ref does not step in. RJJ bends over like he is suffering a migraine.

The 12th (oops, edit: 10th. I keep saying 12th because it is still hard to believe that RJJ would be fighting anything else) round stoppage gambit pays off. The Russians defeat the African American HOFer. The curtain closes. RJJ gets laid by some of the hottest tail on the planet . . . but no rapture.

In a nutshell
Extant
QUOTE (caneman @ May 23 2011, 09:40 AM) *
You know something? I used to think that RJJ's legacy was set in stone but now I am wondering if he is actually hurting it some! I am surprised I feel that way, cause even though he was never one of my favorites @ all, I thought it was set he I feel he is damaging it a bit! Not like he isn't 1st ballet HOF material...IDK, anyone else agree?


Nope. I don't think so...

Then you'd have to argue the same for Joe Louis who ended up fighting well past his prime for taxes that he owes to the IRS THIS VERY DAY. And you'd have to argue the same for Ali who fought a few fights with obvious Parkinson's syndrome. SRL who tried to pull a George Foreman and got KO'd in 97 by Camacho Sr.

Superman's legacy has BEEN set.
BoxingStill#1
Okay so I just got done watching the fight. I actually had roy jones slightly winning up until the knockout.....

I was watching the fight as if I hadn't heard about the knockout so I got excited when the right hand landed and sent denis against the ropes..... the ropes held him up, otherwise that would have been a clear knock down.

Again, we saw glimpses of a legend, but is small potatoes compared to the roy jones of old....

Horrible referee, roy recived countless punishing blows he shouldn't have....

In his prime.... you could say " who do you think would win between him and ali, robinson, tyson, ect.... now its hard to believe we would put them in the same sentence.....

Retire Roy....


Sincerly, and truley yours,
A concerned fan

Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (caneman @ May 23 2011, 11:40 AM) *
You know something? I used to think that RJJ's legacy was set in stone but now I am wondering if he is actually hurting it some! I am surprised I feel that way, cause even though he was never one of my favorites @ all, I thought it was set he I feel he is damaging it a bit! Not like he isn't 1st ballet HOF material...IDK, anyone else agree?

I don't think so, though I suppose turning himself into a bit of a joke for younger fans won't help, the people who remember seeing Roy in his prime remember how dominant a champion he was for 10 years.

I think maybe just maybe you're thinking about it subconsciously in relation to Hopkins' legacy? I don't know, just a guess. Bernard continuing to add to his legacy at this age does remind us how far Roy has fallen, but shouldn't subtract from what he did in the past.

However I will say this: Bernard Hopkins outranks Roy Jones legacy wise and I don't think that's really up for debate.

What he's doing now is JUST as incredible - if not more so - as what Roy was doing then.
Fitz
QUOTE (caneman @ May 24 2011, 02:40 AM) *
You know something? I used to think that RJJ's legacy was set in stone but now I am wondering if he is actually hurting it some! I am surprised I feel that way, cause even though he was never one of my favorites @ all, I thought it was set he I feel he is damaging it a bit! Not like he isn't 1st ballet HOF material...IDK, anyone else agree?


I don't think it should. It's easy to look at him now, and feel kinda funny looking at him now. But you should be judged for what you did in your prime. If that were the case, many other great fighters must have their legacy questioned if you look at their tail end of their career.
ROLL DEEP
I think it could damage his legacy.


It shouldn't, but it could.



Now, when I think of Roy, I think of him being starched on the canvas and fragile. Not the 'superman' he was. It takes me a while to think of his good fights - there are so many bad ones now!
jvo1800
I dont think these losses will damage his legacy at all because us as fans will remember the good times alot more than the bad times. I look at it like this......being old and getting knocked out is something that we've seen plenty of times in the sport of boxing, but how many times have we seen a prime Roy Jones in the sport of boxing???? Roy brought a talent to the sport that we may never see again, so its much easier for me to go to my Roy Jones dvd collection and watch greatness anytime instead of focusing on these last few years of his career. Now i am the biggest Roy Jones Jr. fan and i will always remember the good ol days, but i still think its time 4 him to hang em up b4 he gets killed. (seriously)
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (jvo1800 @ May 23 2011, 08:25 PM) *
I dont think these losses will damage his legacy at all because us as fans will remember the good times alot more than the bad times. I look at it like this......being old and getting knocked out is something that we've seen plenty of times in the sport of boxing, but how many times have we seen a prime Roy Jones in the sport of boxing???? Roy brought a talent to the sport that we may never see again, so its much easier for me to go to my Roy Jones dvd collection and watch greatness anytime instead of focusing on these last few years of his career. Now i am the biggest Roy Jones Jr. fan and i will always remember the good ol days, but i still think its time 4 him to hang em up b4 he gets killed. (seriously)


Many of the Old school fight fans will still remember him as Superman.. but all the young guns and maybe the current MMA fans who decide to take an interest in boxing will only see him as a wash up. its sad but true...
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (caneman @ May 23 2011, 12:40 PM) *
You know something? I used to think that RJJ's legacy was set in stone but now I am wondering if he is actually hurting it some! I am surprised I feel that way, cause even though he was never one of my favorites @ all, I thought it was set he I feel he is damaging it a bit! Not like he isn't 1st ballet HOF material...IDK, anyone else agree?



Yup, I think its getting tarnished a bit. Hopkins has taken a lot of his shine lately. Even Calzaghe has a claim to be the better fighter during the same time period. All of these KO losses late in his career could have some effect on his legacy. Who knows, 40 or 50 years from now people may remember these losses in the same way we look at Louis vs Marciano or Ali vs Berbick. If the fighter was in his prime, these guys wouldnt have even touched him...
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