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Full Version: Pac, PBF, SMartinez or BHop?
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SmartyBeardo
IMO

#1. SMartinez. Impressive victories over top notch, prime opposition (Pavlik, PWill, Dzinziruk).

#2. BHop. Goes into enemy territory twice to claim his title (and sets a world record doing it).

#3. Pac. He may well be fighting damaged goods and heavy bags but at least he is fighting.

#4. PBF. Inactive.


How would you rate them all time if they all retired today?

IMO

#1. BHop. Top ten P4P, all time.

#2. Pac. But there would be asterisks.

#3. PBF. Too much shoulda-woulda-coulda.

#4. SMartinez. Late bloomer but he still has upside potential.
D-MARV
Right now...

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Sergio Martinez
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. Floyd Mayweather (Inactive)

However... I think fighters like Donaire and Ward rank higher then Hops right now.
FinitoElDinamita
If all retired today..

1. Pac
2. Floyd
3. Hopkins
4. Martinez
JONdaCON817
Martinez (man has some balls and isn't scared of anyone)

BHop (another guy who is a man of his word and willing to face the best.. he'd fight a 22 yr old at 50)

PBF (out of sheer boxing ability.. man has undeniable skills that are unmatched IMO)

Pac (seems one dimensional but has heart. Great fighter but laccs high level of competition)

Me.. (cuz I can do that!)
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (D-MARV @ May 29 2011, 08:33 AM) *
Right now...

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Sergio Martinez
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. Floyd Mayweather (Inactive)

However... I think fighters like Donaire and Ward rank higher then Hops right now.


Thats is how I have it as well.
FightHypeRules
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ May 28 2011, 02:45 PM) *
IMO

#1. SMartinez. Impressive victories over top notch, prime opposition (Pavlik, PWill, Dzinziruk).

#2. BHop. Goes into enemy territory twice to claim his title (and sets a world record doing it).

#3. Pac. He may well be fighting damaged goods and heavy bags but at least he is fighting.

#4. PBF. Inactive.


That's pretty much how I see it.
gravytrain
Hopkins
Martinez
Pacquiao
Mayweather

i think it's hard to not put Hopkins as the #1 with how he's dominated younger champions while being over age 40 and having a solid career. that and he's the skills to be #1.
caneman
QUOTE (D-MARV @ May 28 2011, 05:33 PM) *
Right now...

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Sergio Martinez
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. Floyd Mayweather (RETIRED)

However... I think fighters like Donaire and Ward rank higher then Hops right now.


Sounds about right! I fixed the only thing I seen wrong! LOL! BHop getting love with good reason, Pacman getting hate with good reason I guess, Maravilla will just take love if he don't get it! Possibly the most skilled of them all is retired IMO & doesn't belong on this list...I ain't hating here, it's just a fact. I don't care who you are or what part of history you are in, if you don't fight how can you make the list?

If they all retired right now ATG wise by skills, resume, heart & TRUE METTLE?

BHop
Pacman
Mayweather
Maravilla
noWAYnoHOW
QUOTE (caneman @ May 28 2011, 11:02 PM) *
Sounds about right! I fixed the only thing I seen wrong! LOL! BHop getting love with good reason, Pacman getting hate with good reason I guess, Maravilla will just take love if he don't get it! Possibly the most skilled of them all is retired IMO & doesn't belong on this list...I ain't hating here, it's just a fact. I don't care who you are or what part of history you are in, if you don't fight how can you make the list?

If they all retired right now ATG wise by skills, resume, heart & TRUE METTLE?

BHop
Pacman
Mayweather
Maravilla



skills=mayweather
resume= bhop- or pacman
runner up in each department- sergio martinez
Snoop
Why are people rating BHop so low? Are we only looking at the past two years or something?
Spyder
QUOTE (Snoop @ May 29 2011, 12:51 AM) *
Why are people rating BHop so low? Are we only looking at the past two years or something?

"Right now" is another way of saying "current".
Snoop
QUOTE (Spyder @ May 29 2011, 06:20 AM) *
"Right now" is another way of saying "current".

I should have clarified that I'm talking about the "All Time P4P lists" mentioned in this thread. But even within the last two years, his performances against Pascal should blow any of the other accomplishments out of the water.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
I think I'm the only one not so sold on Martinez. I have him behind Manny, Nard and Donaire. I know he has probably done more than Donaire at this stage but I think that kid is special.
Snoop
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ May 29 2011, 05:55 AM) *
I think I'm the only one not so sold on Martinez. I have him behind Manny, Nard and Donaire. I know he has probably done more than Donaire at this stage but I think that kid is special.

The only thing holding Donaire back from doing more is/was his promotional contract. Hopefully we'll see him in better fights.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Snoop @ May 29 2011, 01:11 AM) *
The only thing holding Donaire back from doing more is/was his promotional contract. Hopefully we'll see him in better fights.


He's still done enough and I've still seen him enough for me to make him top 3 p4p.
Roi
If you guys talking about 2 years my rank:

B-HOP - still a killa
Martinez - scary good
Pacman - entertaining
Mayweather - inactive
BoxingWizard23
1.Martinez
2.B-hop
3.Mayweather
4.Pacman



Martinez= He fears no one. Eager to prove himself against top competition. He just came from KO'ing a guy who is known to make boxers look bad and has good defense.

B-Hop=Legend and Hall of Famer 1st ballot. With Hopkins recent performance he raised his legacy even higher and his legend plus achievements. And now he will be fighting Dawson.(funny how people say he was ducking him)

Mayweather= True boxing genius. Although inactive he fought a man who came off a KO of a feared guy with a iron chinned and was never knocked out before that. May stepped up where others didn't and did what most didn't expect. Was the aggressive one and stood toe to toe plus he almost made Richardson throw in the towel and probably could have stopped Mosley if he'd engaged a bit more. Plus he canno't fight more than 1 person per year cause of his taxes and money he gets. Understand tax clauses, tax breaks and brackets.

Pacman=True warrior and will always stand to fight no matter what. Although very active. His level of competition is/has been reduced to shit. He's fighting guys who come off of losses,bad fights,weight draining them. Pacman needs to fight better competition if he want to be higher he has more options than Top Wank reveals. Ex. Ortix, Berto(perfect since he's coming off a loss) Maidana, Bradley, and Guerrero.
JONdaCON817
QUOTE (BoxingWizard23 @ May 29 2011, 03:40 AM) *
1.Martinez
2.B-hop
3.Mayweather
4.Pacman



Martinez= He fears no one. Eager to prove himself against top competition. He just came from KO'ing a guy who is known to make boxers look bad and has good defense.

B-Hop=Legend and Hall of Famer 1st ballot. With Hopkins recent performance he raised his legacy even higher and his legend plus achievements. And now he will be fighting Dawson.(funny how people say he was ducking him)

Mayweather= True boxing genius. Although inactive he fought a man who came off a KO of a feared guy with a iron chinned and was never knocked out before that. May stepped up where others didn't and did what most didn't expect. Was the aggressive one and stood toe to toe plus he almost made Richardson throw in the towel and probably could have stopped Mosley if he'd engaged a bit more. Plus he canno't fight more than 1 person per year cause of his taxes and money he gets. Understand tax clauses, tax breaks and brackets.

Pacman=True warrior and will always stand to fight no matter what. Although very active. His level of competition is/has been reduced to shit. He's fighting guys who come off of losses,bad fights,weight draining them. Pacman needs to fight better competition if he want to be higher he has more options than Top Wank reveals. Ex. Ortix, Berto(perfect since he's coming off a loss) Maidana, Bradley, and Guerrero.


Exactly how I called it for the exact same reasons... Martinez and BHop could possibly be switched but that man (Martinez) is scary good for someone who started boxing as of late.
Hops
1. Pacquiao
2. Hopkins
3. Martinez

Martinez doesn't have a long history of top level fights yet.
jvo1800
1) B-Hop (still beating relevant fighters at age 46)
2) Floyd (dont care about being inactive, he still has the best skills outta them all)
3) Pac (cant be any higher because his skills aren't great, he just has a great heart plus he beats fighters after they're damaged goods)
4) Sergio (good fighter, but just hasn't done enough quite yet to be any higher)
Snoop
I don't really see how anyone can rank these other guys over BHop in the All Time Category. The man holds the record for most title defenses (I'm not considering the WBO and FUCK Joe Calzaghe), the oldest athlete to win a major title, and has proven over and over again he's still a dominate force when the rest of the boxing world counted him out. He's moved up significantly in weight to beat the best in their primes off of experience and guile, not aggressiveness or sheer power. And at 46, he's STILL going at it. Not sure how you can rank that below the accomplishments of the other three.
caneman
QUOTE (Snoop @ May 29 2011, 03:41 PM) *
I don't really see how anyone can rank these other guys over BHop in the All Time Category. The man holds the record for most title defenses (I'm not considering the WBO and FUCK Joe Calzaghe), the oldest athlete to win a major title, and has proven over and over again he's still a dominate force when the rest of the boxing world counted him out. He's moved up significantly in weight to beat the best in their primes off of experience and guile, not aggressiveness or sheer power. And at 46, he's STILL going at it. Not sure how you can rank that below the accomplishments of the other three.



You can't ATG wise hell I can't be mad @ anyone who has him #1 p4p right now! Here is something to think about, X has never got his ass beat bad ever and we are talking about a sport where sooner or later you will get your ass beat if you fight top comp...PERIOD! I think he is top 10-15 of all time! That is saying something! If he does fight and beats Dawson, I want him to retire!
neophyte7
QUOTE (Snoop @ May 29 2011, 04:41 PM) *
I don't really see how anyone can rank these other guys over BHop in the All Time Category. The man holds the record for most title defenses (I'm not considering the WBO and FUCK Joe Calzaghe), the oldest athlete to win a major title, and has proven over and over again he's still a dominate force when the rest of the boxing world counted him out. He's moved up significantly in weight to beat the best in their primes off of experience and guile, not aggressiveness or sheer power. And at 46, he's STILL going at it. Not sure how you can rank that below the accomplishments of the other three.




I agree... Hopkins is a DIETY in the sport's history... He should beat Dawson and leave the sport alone... Walk away looking fresh and able to function--- walking away like that would adds even more to his legacy. Defensively Hopkins is still #2 in the World. Pascal can crack and he cracked Hopkins... hurt him... yet Hopkins made it hard for him to follow it up- EX is near the top of the all time great list. People tried to downplay his destruction of Trinidad (one of the greatest performances in MSG championship fight history) stating Tito was not a true Middle... When Tito destroyed TRUE MIDDLE JOPPY, people were hollering TITO could challenge ROY JONES JR!!! But when Hopkins destroyed him, he was a small man LMAO.... It took HOPKINS 12 rounds to chop down TITO who was pressuring and in the chest of Hopkins all night... HOPKINS PUT ON A SURREAL performance that night- awesome matadoring. The ploy of the PR flag played right into Hopkins game as TITO stalked Hopkins for the love of his country-- Hopkins chopped him up and destroyed his career--- HOPKINS is a lLEGEND. His movie deal should produce an epic story
blackbelt2003
In the ATG stakes Bernard Hopkins beats Mayweather and Pac to death with a big shitty stick and then pisses all over their corpses.

P4P right now, it's either May (if you don't consider him retired) or Pac, based on him being the best active fighter out there right now. As good as a 46 year old Hopkins is, a welterweight version of him wouldn't quite stand up to Pac or Mayweather...or maybe even Martinez.

What Hops is doing now is ATG stuff, not current P4P stuff.





Black
Hops
I cannot factor in the age when talking about ATG. A fighter may start boxing at 30 and become chap at 40 and have 10 years of productive championship fights. I also cannot factor in longevity. I simply take a look at the number of fights and who are the opponents.

Remember that Alexander the Great only had a few years to become great.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Hops @ May 30 2011, 05:50 AM) *
Remember that Alexander the Great only had a few years to become great.


Really I don't think Devon Alexander is all that great laugh.gif
Hops
Hahaha!!!
STEVENSKI
I don't think I have ever personally had Hopkins at #1 P4P his entire career. Not saying he is not great but his greatness is the sum total of his longevity, skill, defense, footwork & boxing IQ.

I think Hopkins is the greatest fighter I have ever seen live & the greatest fighter since Ali. Not a knock on any other fighter but the sum total of his career & accomplishments puts him up there with the elite of all time.

So many fighters belt & division hop picking easy belts to become a world champion. That is why I respect fighters who unify & ultimately become undisputed division champ through hard work not a single big win over the guy who did the hard work. It also helps when they clean out a division & stand on top of the heap.

Hopkins is still a whinger & complainer & always will be. That does not detract from his abilities & greatness though especially when considering all time ratings.
neophyte7
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ May 30 2011, 07:15 AM) *
Really I don't think Devon Alexander is all that great laugh.gif



Dead on... Mathysse is going to KO him
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jun 1 2011, 01:19 AM) *
Dead on... Mathysse is going to KO him


Hopefully. Matthysse seems like a more interesting proposition to have at the top end of the 140 rankings than Devon, who already proved that he is a little fucking bitch against Bradley.
jlupi
As impressive as bernard is I have a hard time putting him so high. Pascal was never any world beater
anthonyaccurate
world beaters?

pavlik- no
Paul Williams-no

Mosley- hell no
margarito-no

flabby jmm- no

at least pascal wasn't on a downslide
compared to the others comp

lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (anthonyaccurate @ Jun 2 2011, 02:08 AM) *
world beaters?

pavlik- no
Paul Williams-no

Mosley- hell no
margarito-no

flabby jmm- no

at least pascal wasn't on a downslide
compared to the others comp


Define world beater for me then?
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Jun 2 2011, 02:20 AM) *
Define world beater for me then?

That is a good question, Lloyd.

The fact that Pavlik was (nearly) universally favored v BHop, and the biggest question was method of victory, qualifies in my estimation.

Current world beaters, IMO, are Nonito, The Siamese Klit, Pac and PBF. Interestingly, all have been beat but PBF, who is retired.
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jun 2 2011, 03:23 PM) *
That is a good question, Lloyd.

The fact that Pavlik was (nearly) universally favored v BHop, and the biggest question was method of victory, qualifies in my estimation.

Current world beaters, IMO, are Nonito, The Siamese Klit, Pac and PBF. Interestingly, all have been beat but PBF, who is retired.


Writing off a fighter unless he has 0 in his L column is a particular favourite of the Floyd nuthuggers. It's how they justify Floyd not fighting certain guys who the rest of the boxing world would like to see him fight.

Paul Williams was ranked p4p by a lot of people, and before BHOP fought Pavlik, he had KO'ed Taylor, then outboxed Taylor to a UD, then blew out Gary Lockett and was unified Middleweight champ.

If thats not a world beater, I dont know what is.
Snoop
Pascal is more of a world beater than anyone Pacquiao has faced as of late.
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Jun 2 2011, 08:33 AM) *
Writing off a fighter unless he has 0 in his L column is a particular favourite of the Floyd nuthuggers. It's how they justify Floyd not fighting certain guys who the rest of the boxing world would like to see him fight.

Paul Williams was ranked p4p by a lot of people, and before BHOP fought Pavlik, he had KO'ed Taylor, then outboxed Taylor to a UD, then blew out Gary Lockett and was unified Middleweight champ.

If thats not a world beater, I dont know what is.

I wasn't pointing out that PBF was the only "world beater" not to be beat as a compliment. It is just interesting. I agree that PBF will be best remembered (if he stays retired) for his obsessive protection of his 0. That is not ATG material.
caneman
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jun 2 2011, 08:53 PM) *
I wasn't pointing out that PBF was the only "world beater" not to be beat as a compliment. It is just interesting. I agree that PBF will be best remembered (if he stays retired) for his obsessive protection of his 0. That is not ATG material.



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