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Full Version: Was Mike Tyson not the first but the last true peoples champ in boxing
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Harvey
Yes we do and did have mayweather,pac man,roy jones,de la hoya,and alot of others in the top fame game of boxing. But to me none of them held the spark of mike tyson. Mayweather and pac man may be close but still not in the same pond. Mike tyson did fight more to me and was not a ducker or dodger come one come all in his book and very exciting to watch in and out the ring good or bad most of the time more bad than good. But otherwise what he brought to boxing and the fans that came and left with him when will we see that again your guess is as good as mine onething I do know a brawler fighter is way more exciting to watch for all fans. Defensive counter puncher fighters are cool and you know who that is mayweather but not enough excitemnt I guess thats why he has a big mouth much love to him but it si what it is.
Juancito
Yeah, I would definitely agree about Tyson attracting non-boxing fans to the sport, most def. His international popularity today, long since his retirement is evidence of your statment.
mgrover
on the basis that he didnt duck anyone sergio martinez, he'll fight anyone anywhere but he really needs to move up in weight
JONdaCON817
Your punctuation is horrible....

I ran out of breathe readin this and I wasn't even readin it outloud...lol

Mike Tyson was a character.. always fun to watch and always controversial. One of my favorite quotes of his was when a female reporter asked him a question and he replied by sayin "are you talkin out of turn? I dnt do interviews with females unless they fornicate with me first, are you gonna fornicate with me?"..lol. that shyt had me rolling. That MF instilled fear into ppl like no other...
Harvey
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jun 14 2011, 01:49 PM) *
on the basis that he didnt duck anyone sergio martinez, he'll fight anyone anywhere but he really needs to move up in weight
Correct on that sergio is one of my favorites but he needs to change weight class to get a better fights but his popularity would never exceed tyson's if it was to he should be better known but alot of people don't know who he is I believe american fighters just had it better back then in boxing to much competition these days with other sports
neophyte7
He dumbed down the sport... He further dumbed down the already dumb fans who as Roger Mayweather says it" don't no shit bout boxing" TYSON's rise also brought with it a DISTASTE and FOR BOXERS... everyone wants KO's and brutal face to face wars... If NOT YOU WERE AND ARE CALLED BORING... A RUNNER--- without taking into account that styles make fights and not all fights and fighters WIN BY TRYING TO KO the other guy with every punch thrown.. I FEEL MIKE was detrimental to the sport in more ways than one...
Harvey
QUOTE (JONdaCON817 @ Jun 14 2011, 02:09 PM) *
Your punctuation is horrible....

I ran out of breathe readin this and I wasn't even readin it outloud...lol

Mike Tyson was a character.. always fun to watch and always controversial. One of my favorite quotes of his was when a female reporter asked him a question and he replied by sayin "are you talkin out of turn? I dnt do interviews with females unless they fornicate with me first, are you gonna fornicate with me?"..lol. that shyt had me rolling. That MF instilled fear into ppl like no other...

My fault I got you taken care of just writing in the momment
Tha Docta
the man once claimed he could sell out madison square garden masturbating
Harvey
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jun 14 2011, 02:15 PM) *
He dumbed down the sport... He further dumbed down the already dumb fans who as Roger Mayweather says it" don't no shit bout boxing" TYSON's rise also brought with it a DISTASTE and FOR BOXERS... everyone wants KO's and brutal face to face wars... If NOT YOU WERE AND ARE CALLED BORING... A RUNNER--- without taking into account that styles make fights and not all fights and fighters WIN BY TRYING TO KO the other guy with every punch thrown.. I FEEL MIKE was detrimental to the sport in more ways than one...

No tyson did'nt dumb down boxing the fact is brawlers are more exciting to watch ask pac man what if NBA players never slammed dunked on each other what if football never had tackling just two hand tag it would be boring and fall off. The bottom line I like skilled fighters like mayweather but brawlers rule welcome to america if you want to get mad at tyson then you need to get mad at rome for gladiators in past history it is what it is.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (JONdaCON817 @ Jun 14 2011, 02:09 PM) *
Your punctuation is horrible....

I ran out of breathe readin this and I wasn't even readin it outloud...lol

Mike Tyson was a character.. always fun to watch and always controversial. One of my favorite quotes of his was when a female reporter asked him a question and he replied by sayin "are you talkin out of turn? I dnt do interviews with females unless they fornicate with me first, are you gonna fornicate with me?"..lol. that shyt had me rolling. That MF instilled fear into ppl like no other...

I remember that shit. That's 1 of my favorite Tyson moments. LOL!

QUOTE (Harvey @ Jun 14 2011, 02:58 PM) *
No tyson did'nt dumb down boxing the fact is brawlers are more exciting to watch ask pac man what if NBA players never slammed dunked on each other what if football never had tackling just two hand tag it would be boring and fall off. The bottom line I like skilled fighters like mayweather but brawlers rule welcome to america if you want to get mad at tyson then you need to get mad at rome for gladiators in past history it is what it is.

I like both styles. Personally, I think the different styles balances everything out. I wouldn't wanna see 2 brawlers battlin' it out damn near every fight, 'cause it'd prob remind me of playground fights by 5th Graders. When I watch Pascal fights, I get that feelin', no lie. If I had to watch 2 counter-punchers fight each other most of the time, it'd prob be like watchin' 2 old men play golf (no pun intended to the golf fans).
Harvey
QUOTE (BoxingFan86 @ Jun 14 2011, 04:38 PM) *
I remember that shit. That's 1 of my favorite Tyson moments. LOL!


I like both styles. Personally, I think the different styles balances everything out. I wouldn't wanna see 2 brawlers battlin' it out damn near every fight, 'cause it'd prob remind me of playground fights by 5th Graders. When I watch Pascal fights, I get that feelin', no lie. If I had to watch 2 counter-punchers fight each other most of the time, it'd prob be like watchin' 2 old men play golf (no pun intended to the golf fans).

I agree with that a brawler aginst a counter puncher is always good to see we will see that ortiz vs mayweather the only thing I will say about this is if a brawler smother's and use his strength on a counter puncher he will win most the time
bosco
QUOTE (Harvey @ Jun 14 2011, 06:43 PM) *
I agree with that a brawler aginst a counter puncher is always good to see we will see that ortiz vs mayweather the only thing I will say about this is if a brawler smother's and use his strength on a counter puncher he will win most the time

I disagree..brawlers leave themselves open a lot whether they try to smother or not. A good counter puncher has good ring generalship and knows how take that half step back and counter or keep turning the brawler. A perfect example is Juan Manuel Marquez vs Juan Diaz 1
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (bosco @ Jun 14 2011, 07:03 PM) *
I disagree..brawlers leave themselves open a lot whether they try to smother or not. A good counter puncher has good ring generalship and knows how take that half step back and counter or keep turning the brawler. A perfect example is Juan Manuel Marquez vs Juan Diaz 1

I think he may've meant the brawler would win in the judge's eyes (if no real damage has been done).
neophyte7
QUOTE (Harvey @ Jun 14 2011, 02:58 PM) *
No tyson did'nt dumb down boxing the fact is brawlers are more exciting to watch ask pac man what if NBA players never slammed dunked on each other what if football never had tackling just two hand tag it would be boring and fall off. The bottom line I like skilled fighters like mayweather but brawlers rule welcome to america if you want to get mad at tyson then you need to get mad at rome for gladiators in past history it is what it is.



THE GLADIATORS represented the sickness of a violent loving society... and the need for stimulation of the aristocrats... I AM NOT MAD A TYSON AT ALL.. he himself was a dysfunctional victim of cyclical ghetto disease, a mentally underdeveloped media bafoon... Talented yes... overrated yes... gifted physically yes.. A SLUGGER, BRAWLER IN ESSENCE...I find brawlers exciting, yet they don't exemplify the art and science of pugilism IN MY VIEW, and Tyson is powerful in that he made it ALL ABOUT THE KO and the brawl for the majority of people who follow and watch.
neophyte7
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jun 14 2011, 09:49 PM) *
First of all the general public is fascinated by the KO. Tyson in his prime was a vicious puncher but he was also an excellent boxer with good defense, head movement and technique. He became ordinary when he relied on brawling.

Second, the public loves a tragedy. Tyson was kind of like a modern real life Mighty Joe Young saga.


I don't think he came close to the fear instilled by George Foreman for a few years there.



LMAO... mighty JOE YOUNG SAGA... Tyson pitifully is very analogous to Mighty Joe Young
Warlord
QUOTE (JONdaCON817 @ Jun 14 2011, 01:09 PM) *
Your punctuation is horrible....

I ran out of breathe readin this and I wasn't even readin it outloud...lol

Mike Tyson was a character.. always fun to watch and always controversial. One of my favorite quotes of his was when a female reporter asked him a question and he replied by sayin "are you talkin out of turn? I dnt do interviews with females unless they fornicate with me first, are you gonna fornicate with me?"..lol. that shyt had me rolling. That MF instilled fear into ppl like no other...

I remember that interview quite clearly, lol, and it was a tad different than the way you laid it out. Tyson actually said, very seriously and menacingly: "I don't interviews with women unless I fornicated with them first. So you shouldn't talk no more, unless you wanna, you know..."
Harvey
QUOTE (bosco @ Jun 14 2011, 07:03 PM) *
I disagree..brawlers leave themselves open a lot whether they try to smother or not. A good counter puncher has good ring generalship and knows how take that half step back and counter or keep turning the brawler. A perfect example is Juan Manuel Marquez vs Juan Diaz 1

That is true in some cases it goes both ways depending on the fighter's skill level as a counter puncher but tyson did have good defense skills and head movement and for the most part he just was too strong he manhandled his opponents he was a different breed from todays brawlers
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jun 14 2011, 09:49 PM) *
First of all the general public is fascinated by the KO. Tyson in his prime was a vicious puncher but he was also an excellent boxer with good defense, head movement and technique. He became ordinary when he relied on brawling.

Second, the public loves a tragedy. Tyson was kind of like a modern real life Mighty Joe Young saga.


I don't think he came close to the fear instilled by George Foreman for a few years there.


I'm not sure if Foreman put more fear into others than Tyson. Shoot I was only like 1 when Foreman was in his prime so I can only rely on what I read etc. Beardo I'm picking you were around yeah so maybe you're right, but the menace that Tyson presented................

However when I read the title of this thread I am thinking of Tyson probably right up until the Douglas fight, the 'other' Tyson I have almost eradicated from my brain. Pre-Douglas Tyson was very very much loved, certainly in my country. If you were a young boy you wanted to be like Tyson. This small guy in black trunks who came into the ring robeless and beat the living byjesus out of the bigger dudes.

The guy was so iconic from that neck roll he did pre-fight, to the lisp, to everything. You knew you were witnessing a walking piece of history and that you wouldn't see anything like him in a very long time and (we haven't.)

We can debate his legacy, his place in history etc until the cows come home but pre-Douglas and before his frailities were exposed to the world I would say yes he he was definately the last true peoples champ.

Probably only Pac's story of homelessness in Manila, the whole country stopping when he fights and his rise into politics come's closest to Tyson's in global popularity and pop culture appeal, but really no-one comes close in the last 30 years to the mania of what an undefeated undisputed Iron Mike created.
Harvey
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Jun 14 2011, 09:49 PM) *
First of all the general public is fascinated by the KO. Tyson in his prime was a vicious puncher but he was also an excellent boxer with good defense, head movement and technique. He became ordinary when he relied on brawling.

Second, the public loves a tragedy. Tyson was kind of like a modern real life Mighty Joe Young saga.


I don't think he came close to the fear instilled by George Foreman for a few years there.

Thats true he was more than just a brawler but at the sametime all of those technique's you mention was incorporated with his brawling style of fighting
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Harvey @ Jun 15 2011, 12:05 AM) *
Thats true he was more than just a brawler but at the sametime all of those technique's you mention was incorporated with his brawling style of fighting


Tyson was a pure puncher/boxer. Like Beardo said his technique (especially for a 20-21 year old kid) was very very sound.
neophyte7
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 15 2011, 06:18 PM) *
I disagree. Tyson didn't dumb down the fans. He fought a certain style, that isn't for everyone, though nothing wrong with it and it was the fans that were dumb. I'm not going to hold Tyson accountable for fans stupidity, haha.




LMAO... I am not holding him accountable yet that is the impact he had on boxing... his presence ushered in a era of distaste for BOXERS and technicians who employed movement, and defense as strategies... his presence seemed to impact the attention span of the casual fan.. If boxing was not face to face slugging ---what Tyson was and is associated with in the general public eye... it was considered boring and uneventful...
Harvey
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jun 15 2011, 09:30 PM) *
LMAO... I am not holding him accountable yet that is the impact he had on boxing... his presence ushered in a era of distaste for BOXERS and technicians who employed movement, and defense as strategies... his presence seemed to impact the attention span of the casual fan.. If boxing was not face to face slugging ---what Tyson was and is associated with in the general public eye... it was considered boring and uneventful...
Yes that is a very true statement its the same way with the filipino's following pac man as americans followed tyson they both are sluggers in thier own ways
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jun 15 2011, 09:30 PM) *
LMAO... I am not holding him accountable yet that is the impact he had on boxing... his presence ushered in a era of distaste for BOXERS and technicians who employed movement, and defense as strategies... his presence seemed to impact the attention span of the casual fan.. If boxing was not face to face slugging ---what Tyson was and is associated with in the general public eye... it was considered boring and uneventful...


C'mon are you talking pre-Douglas Tyson? In his prime around the Spinks and Holmes fights Tyson was far far more than a slugger. He had a tremendous jab, absolutely insane footwork for a 215 pound man and crazy head movement. Has anyone got a clip, I forget which fight it was, where he just stood in front of the guy and ducked and weaved out of about 5 or 6 shots? I think it was the Thomas or Biggs fight but I could be wrong.

And I'll say it again the guy was about 21 years old. Even as a young kid and without knowing much about the sport it was easy to see that tyson's knockouts where borne from superior technique and not a guy just swinging for the fences.

Certainly the casual sports fans I was around at the time saw more than just a slugger. Nobody I knew could get over the handspeed he had for a HW or the way he threw combinations which you rarely see from the big men.

Once Tyson went to King and turned thug life then I would say your points are all dead on.
BoxingWizard23
Tyson will always be more than a slugger to me. I pretty much agree with all your assessments of Tyson. This guy had a compacted combined skills that most heavyweights till this day wished they had. Imagined if Cus D'amato would have never died with all the original key players in Tyson's corner throughout his reign and over. I already did, I believe Tyson would have possibly gone undefeated with a KO percentage of over 88%. The highest in heavyweight history. People say all it takes is a guy who wasn't scared of Tyson and they'll win....*crickets* bullshit!! Holmes wasn't scared of him but he still got KO'd for the first time in his career and Holmes is known to have a great chin. The only reason Tyson started losing was because Cus died, Rooney left and so did Atlas and Tyson went to prison. He was never the same after all that. His work ethic and neither his focus was the same. Tyson at his peak would have easily destroyed Douglass and Lennox. A man with a raw power that could hurt an elephant and speed like a welterweight plus head movement faster than anyone I've ever seen. You gotta be kiddin?!
gravytrain
i think his aggressiveness just makes people overlook it, it's easy to overlook the skills needed to do what he did when the fighter is stalking his opponent and going for the knockout from round 1.
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